asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will give a general direction to the Railways Board to improve the standard of crowd control on British Railways stations when large numbers of people are travelling to football matches and other similar functions.

No, Sir.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that on Saturday, 27th May, in the Central Station, Glasgow, the measures taken to control the long queue of people waiting to catch trains to Mount Florida Station to watch the football international between Scotland and England were totally inadequate, and that it is a miracle that no one was seriously hurt?

My hon. Friend has been good enough to call my attention to the circumstances on the day in question. British Rail is also aware of what happened. It is reviewing its arrangements. I think it would be possible to exaggerate the danger on this occasion.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there was great success in the past football season in controlling hooliganism inside football grounds? One of the results is that hooliganism outside the grounds has got worse, particularly on British Rail. I and other hon. Members have been told of a large number of instances of uncontrolled hooliganism in restaurant cars and other places, which can be very frightening for ordinary, innoncent passengers. Will the right hon. Gentleman please communicate with the British Rail police to see that the good that has been achieved inside grounds is not lost outside and on Britaish Rail?

Most certainly. Nobody—neither I nor British Rail—would wish to challenge what the hon. Gentleman said.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will advise local authorities to use compulsory purchase powers when it appears that a large number of houses within their area, which have hitherto been let to tenants with low incomes, are being or are about to be converted to luxury accommodation.

:No, Sir. This is a matter for the judgment of the local authorities.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that is a dismally insensitive answer, which reflects the indifference of his Government to the suffering caused to individuals, families, and communities by the exploitation of properties for commercial greed? Will he not reconsider the matter and accept the recommendations even of the Conservative Kensington and Chelsea Council to give increased compulsory purchase powers where families are being harassed with a view to their eviction, because the provisions of the Act are not sufficiently effective to prevent harassment? Will he take greater powers to use compulsory purchase powers in those circumstances?

The hon. Gentleman will be well aware that we have taken increased powers to prosecute harassment and that tenants in regulated or controlled tenancies have security of tenure. I should have thought that that covers the point the hon. Gentleman is making.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what criteria he takes into account in assessing requests by local authorities for his approval of compulsory purchase orders of land for public housing.

Generally, the authority's need for more housing land, the suitability of the proposed site and any objections to the compulsory purchase order, but each case must be considered on its merits.

Has my right hon. Friend seen the report on the Sheffield Council waiting list commissioned by the Housing Research Foundation and carried out by the Centre for Urban and Regional Studies at the University of Birmingham? Will he take this sort of survey into account as well, because that survey showed that some 42 per cent. of the people whose names appeared on the general waiting list could not be traced, and that well over half of the people on the waiting list wanted to own their homes, yet in Sheffield fewer and fewer houses are being built for ownership and more and more for municipal letting.

I have said that one of the factors is an authority's need for more housing land, and proof of need would not be discharged merely by producing a housing waiting list. We should consider any other factors, such as those my hon. Friend mentioned, in seeing whether there was a need for housing.

:Is the Minister aware that many of the people in Sheffield wish to buy houses in my constituency but that unfortunately the rate of increase in house prices is such that many thousands of them are being bitterly disappointed?

The Government's objective is to increase the supply of housing in order to push the prices down.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when it is his intention to modernise and rationalise the Building Regulations into a more simplified and national application.

The Government accept the need for changes in the law relating to building regulations in England and Wales.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply. Would he go a little further and say that there is a need for a new National Building Act which will embrace all the laws and regulations, that in the public interest this should be as simple and as easily understood as possible, and that in the interests of fairness it should not be capable of being interpreted differently by different building inspectors?

That is the Government's intention. It is not possible to change the existing position without legislation, and we shall try to make the necessary legislation as simple as we can.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that unimaginative insistence on the letter of the present building regulations has done serious damage to a number of listed buildings in various parts of the country? Will he confirm that planning authorities now have the power to waive the regulations as they apply to listed buildings? Will he give particular attention to this problem when revising the regulations?

I shall have my hon. Friend's point very much in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the reason for the multiplication of wiggly and other white lines on Her Majesty's Highway; and whether he will make a statement.

To improve safety, Sir.

Is my right hon. Friend quite sure about this? Does not this multiplication add up to distraction? Is he satisfied that all this expenditure and unsightliness will contribute to an increase in road safety? Does he think that the public understand all this?

Yes, Sir. I am absolutely satisfied that this can make a very useful contribution. The purpose of the lines—to which I am sure that public will get used; they have already been widely publicised—is, first, to draw attention to the crossing itself and, second, to mark an area in which waiting and parking, and, from the approach direction, passing, are prohibited.

:Will the Minister resist the blandishments of his wiggly hon. Friend and encourage local authorities to do more in the marking of junctions with white lines?

I shall always find the blandishments of my hon. Friend very difficult to resist.

Will my right hon. Friend introduce a few wiggly lines into New Palace Yard?

New Palace Yard and the immediate environment of where we now are is the last place that is in need of wiggly lines.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will introduce safeguards to prevent exploitation of the Government grants for improving old houses and flats for profit-making purposes, including a condition that such properties should not be sold within three years of improvement without specific approval by the local authority.

No, Sir. It is for the local authority to decide whether or not to make a discretionary grant in any particular case.

But what steps will the Government take to help? Surely the Minister is aware that speculators are buying up old properties, hustling out the tenants, applying for grants, receiving up to £4,500 for converting an old house into three flats, and then selling them for a very large profit? Surely this is wrong and can be prevented.

The hon. Gentleman will remember that his noble Friend, Lord Greenwood, when he was Minister for Housing, removed the restriction on the approval of grants by local authorities. We do it for the same reason. I quite understand the hon. Gentleman's anxiety about speculators. My anxiety is concentrated on the fact that 2·3 million people in this country still live in substandard houses, and I do not want to do anything which will slow up the improvement of these homes.

What is the difference to the public purse between someone improving a house and then selling it andhis selling it as it stands and the purchaser then improving it?

My hon. Friend has a good point. There is very little difference. In any case, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor gets his whack of all the proceeds.

Will not the Minister at least give some guidance to local authorities in this respect? Has he taken account of a recent article in the Housing Review which gave specific examples of speculators making very substantial profits, which are approximately equal to the size of the improvement grant, and which suggests that a large number of people have been uprooted as a result of these operations and have added to the problem of homelessness, about which we have heard?

Where discretionary grants are concerned, local authorities have complete discretion whether to give the grants. Where the standard grant is concerned, they have to give it, and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would not wish to prevent the installation of a bathroom or indoor sanitation in any houses. Surely the situation as it stands today is in no way unsatisfactory. The hon. Gentleman will remember that if there is any question of compulsory purchase, the Department of the Environment might well have to adopt a judicial position in this and to decide for or against an appeal. It may well be unwise to give guidance to authorities, which in any case might involve them in very heavy expenditure.

Is not the Minister missing the whole central point of the questions? Is he not aware that they are not directed to reducing the rate of improvement of the bricks and mortar but to the question of the displacement of increasing numbers of moderate-income families from these areas as a result of the purchase of these properties for conversion and sale as business propositions? Is not there a study taking place in the Department on this matter? If the Minister can confirm that, why has he not mentioned it to the House? Will he take it from the Opposition that we believe it right that local authorities should be encouraged to move into this area of property dealing to carry out the conversions and improvements themselves and to let at reasonable rents?

I am very reluctant to advise local authorities to embark on the very heavy expenditure which compulsory purchase orders might put upon them. We are studying the matter; we should be irresponsible not to do so. But I have nothing like enough information to put before the House about my conclusions on the study. As of now, no information has been put before us to suggest that there is any substantial number of people deprived of good accommodation as a result of improvements. All the information we have points the other way.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will establish an inquiry into the proportion of improvement grants going to owner-occupiers and the proportion going to property companies.

No, Sir. The numbers of grants approved to owner-occupiers and landlords respectively are already known. No useful purpose would be served by attempting any further subdivision.

Does the Minister agree that it was never the intention of any of those concerned with this enlightened legislation to swell the profits of property companies at the taxpayers' expense? He says that he is concerned with answering housing need, but is he not troubled by the evidence of an increasing tendency to displace existing occupiers so that profits can be facilitated for property companies? Does not the Minister think that an inquiry at this juncture would be helpful, particularly when there are genuine owner-occupiers who are not getting discretionary grants and who feel particularly frustrated?

The hon. Gentleman is labouring under a misunderstanding. No tenant in a controlled or regulated tenancy can be evicted. The penalties against harassment have been sharply increased. There are very few tenants living in unregulated tenancies where improvement grants would be applicable.

Is it not a fact that it is not property dealers who occupy flats but tenants? To deprive the tenant of his bath in order to annoy a particular kind of landlord whom the hon. Member for Portsmouth, West (Mr. Judd) does not like would be a singularly inept procedure.

:Clearly it is essential to improve the housing stock and the housing conditions. I repeat that no controlled or regulated tenant can be evicted under the present law and that there are very few cases where improvement grants can be applied to unregulated tenancies.

:We have tried so many times to enlighten the Minister on this matter that I am almost sick of trying. Does he accept that all over inner London people are being evicted, harassed, bought out and pushed out of controlled and regulated tenancies by speculators making big, fat profits out of the improvement grant scheme? Will the Minister accept that, or do I have to invite him to the London borough of Camden where I can show him evidence of it?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that in my present job I am in close contact with the leaders of the London boroughs, including the London borough of Camden. They have not put before me massive evidence of the kind the hon. Gentleman suggests.

If the Minister seriously means that he has no evidence of people being, as my hon. Friend the Member for St. Pancras, North (Mr. Stallard) says, pushed out, shoved out, harassed, occasionally evicted in inner London, he must be totally out of contact with reality. Will he come with me to any housing authority in London? Let him come with my hon. Friend the Member for Kensington, North (Mr. Douglas-Mann) and myself to the Colville area of Kensington where in the last few months hundreds of families, in consequence of improvement grants, have been pushed out of their present accommodation for the sake of developers' profits.

It remains an interesting point that none of these councils, most of which are of the persuasion of the Labour Party, has made representations to me about individual cases and I do not as yet know of any cases of homelessness—there may well be some, of course—or of anyone moving to inferior accommodation as a result of this.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will now introduce legislation to eliminate middle men from transactions concerning land with development prospects.

No, Sir.

Has the Minister's attention been drawn to last Friday's edition of The Guardianwhich reported that a piece of land in Manchester was sold for £36,000, resold for £64,000, then put up for auction and withdrawn at £98,000, and then sold for over £100,000, all within a period of seven months? Is not the Minister aware that people who have no direct interest in land prices are becoming angered at the Government's refusal to stop this criminal exploitation of land scarcity?

I do not have the facts of the case which the hon. Gentleman mentions. But it is true that often the middle man, as the hon. Gentleman calls him, plays a useful purpose in the assembling of land for development.

Is it not becoming increasingly clear day by day that the Government's doctrinaire decision to abolish the Land Commission has been a disaster? However, as that happened, and in view of the facts outlined by my hon. Friend the Member for Leigh (Mr. H. Boardman), is it not increasingly clear with every day that passes that the only way to control this problem is to have complete public ownership of all development land?

I do not think that the public would appreciate a return to the Land Commission. I notice that the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Stechford (Mr. RoyJenkins) has announced the Opposition's policy in this respect in the last few days, saying that

"the cornerstone of our policy must be acquisition rather than taxation."

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will specify the developments at the United Nations Conference on the Human Environment which have provided an opportunity for better co-ordination of international programmes of work on environmental problems.

:The Conference recommended new machinery to co-ordinate the activities of the many inter-governmental, non-governmental and United Nations agencies operating in the environmental field. This machinery will comprise a Governing Council for Environmental programmes supported by a Co-ordinating Board and a small secretariat.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply. I know that the contribution of the United Kingdom delegation to the Stockholm Conference was widely acclaimed. I hope that my right hon. Friend will bear in mind—and I should be glad to have an assurance to this effect—that we should not have a proliferation of international bodies dealing with environmental questions.

:I have said that one of the difficulties in my Department has been that there have been so many international bodies that many of the ablest members of my staff have been fully employed in going from one conference to another. This is bad. A rationalisation is to take place.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he was consulted by the owner of Durrington Walls before the deep ploughing of the prehistoric site.

:I was given no notice of the recent work, but I am assured by the owners that it was not deep ploughing but rotavation intended to prepare the land for grazing.

:I have some sympathy with the chagrin of the Ancient Monuments Department in this matter. What is to be done to prevent a recurrence of this position?

I share the hon. Gentleman's concern. This very important prehistoric monument is under a preservation order. I am carefully investigating all the circumstances. Until these inquiries have been completed, the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that I cannot say any more.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many claims for compensation his Department have now had arising out of the minimum age for motor cyclists being increased; and how many of these have been paid.

Four hundred and forty-three claims have been received. I hope that all can be settled very soon.

Is it not a colossal piece of incompetence that out of 433 cases of compensation none has been settled in the nine months since the Minister admitted his Department's incompetence? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I reported this matter to the Ombudsman and that I have had a letter from the Ombudsman today saying that he is to make an investigation? Why is it that after 433 people have had to suffer damage because of the Department's incompetence, hardly any of them have been paid their compensation?

Because each one of these cases needed to be investigated carefully and thoroughly. Every effort has been made by my Department to meet these claims, and they will be settled soon. The hon. Gentleman talks in a rather big way about monumental incompetence as if he were very familiar with it.

Did not the unfortunate timing of these regulations, whatever their merits, just before Christmas and without notice, maximise the inconvenience to those concerned and maximise the cost to the Treasury? Will the Minister consider this with a view to trying to time any future changes in a more convenient way?

Certainly. I greatly regret the inconvenience to the individuals concerned and I have never attempted to deny it. What happened was that local councils, even though they were on notice that this regulation was being introduced, continued their previous practice of issuing licences in advance. On the strength of those licences people bought motor cycles and so on. I repeat that I am sorry for the inconvenience which was caused.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what steps he is taking to reduce casualties among child pedestrians; and if he will make a statement.

The Green Cross Code had made and continues to make a valuable contribution.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. The number of child casualties in the first quarter of 1972 remained almost unchanged compared with the same period of 1971, which was a particularly high figure. In view of this, will my right hon. Friend consider extending the Green Cross Code?

Yes. A further campaign is planned for this year. Last year £500,000 was spent on publicising the Green Cross Code. This year it is planned to spend £750,000. From May of last year, which was when the Code was introduced, to the end of the year 2,000 fewer children were killed or injured on the roads than in the previous years.

Does the Minister's Department do any research into what percentge of child casualties is the result of excessive speed by motorists?

It is difficult to do very detailed research. I assure the hon. Gentleman that this desperate matter is taken very seriously.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what financial help is given by his Department to firms which install special equipment to prevent pollution of air or water by their processes.

Such equipment qualifies for the usual assistance and incentives available to firms for capital investment.

Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that the funds available at present are sufficient? Has he in mind that the expense of putting in equipment to deal with pollution is very high, sometimes as much as a third of the full capital cost, and that this affects a firm's competitive position against rivals in other countries who are not so concerned about pollution?

I realise that that is an aspect of the matter. On the other hand, I feel that it is the duty of those who want to carry out a manufacturing process which pollutes either rivers or the air to pay the cost of clearing up the pollution, rather than that the taxpayer should do it.

Will my right hon. Friend take it that going ahead at a reasonable pace in the way he described, on this problem of the pollution of water, is a better scheme than rushing headlong into the introduction of regional water authorities, which certainly cannot be accepted by local authorities within the next year?

No, Sir. I consider it vital to organise our river systems on the basis of a complete water cycle. It will be in the interest of diminishing costs of both water extraction and of cleaning up the rivers to have matters organised on a river system basis.

asked the Sec retary of State for the Environment what plans he has for making an official visit to Hackney.

None, Sir, at present.

What a disappointment. Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that he would have had a pretty hot welcome from my constituents, especially in the light of the sort of nonsense which has been spoken by the Minister for Housing and Construction today? Is he aware that there are about 10,000 families on the housing waiting list in Hackney and that people are living in the most appalling conditions? If the Hackney Council were to take his advice—which, I am pleased to say, it will not—and to embark upon the sale of council houses, would it not totally adbicate its responsibilities towards those who are suffering the present tragic conditions?

:Rather than a hot welcome, I should, I believe, receive a warm welcome for the 75 per cent. slum clearance subsidy which the Government have introduced.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he proposes to review the attendance allowance paid to members of London borough councils.

I assume that the hon. Member is referring to the financial loss allowance. Therates were increased from 24th January last.

:That is a disappointing reply. The right hon. Gentleman must be aware of the vast amount of time which local councillors have to give. Does he not acknowledge that the allowance which they receive is meagre, that there is no secretarial help and no help with postage, and that, because of this, many able people leave local government? Will he look at the matter again urgently and bring the allowances up to a more realistic figure?

The hon. Gentleman refers to attendance allowances. These are being dealt with. Provision for them is contained in the Local Government Bill now before Parliament.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what was the proportion by which house prices increased in the last 18 months, and the amount by which house prices increased more than that of the cost of labour and building materials in the same period.

Between the fourth quarter of 1970 and the second quarter of 1972, average new house prices are provisionally estimated to have risen by 34 per cent. House prices are made up of a complex of factors such as land prices, overheads and margins, quite apart from the cost of labour and building materials, and the amount of different elements will vary in differing circumstances and locations. It would be misleading to try to quantify them.

Is not the rate of increase in the price of houses 50 per cent. greater than the rate of increase in the cost of labour and materials, and is it not, therefore, reasonable to conclude that this explains to a great extent why so many young couples—the majority of them—cannot now afford to purchase their own homes, whether in Epping or in South Yorkshire? Is it not a scandalous situation?

:The Government are determined to encourage the rising output of the private sector to deal with this problem. Young people are holding their own in these circumstances. In the first quarter of this year, 24 per cent. of all mortgages went to people earning not more than £30 a week, and the proportion of borrowers under 25 rose from 20·5 per cent. in the last quarter of 1971 to 22 per cent. this year.

Can my hon. Friend confirm that over a good many years the rise in house prices has been about in line with the rise in wages, and that the price of houses is governed not so much by the cost of building in the new house market as by the price which can be obtained by the sale of second-hand houses, this being a function of wages and of the availability of credit?

:My hon. Friend has mentioned one of the substantial factors in relation to the rise in prices. I am glad to say that, thanks to the greater flexibility in the option mortgage scheme, the proportion of new option mortgages to all mortgages is rising.

:Will the hon. Gentleman take it that the facts stated by the hon. Member for Epping (Mr. Tebbit) are correct to the extent that, over many years the rise in house prices was closely related to the rise in wages and materials but in the 12 months following publication of the White Paper in June, 1971 and publication of the Housing Finance Bill later, there was a rise of 31 per cent. in house prices but a rise in costs, based on the first six months, at the rate of only 4 per cent. per annum? Will the hon. Gentleman consider the figures which I gave in the debate last night and accept that the Housing Finance Bill is the major factor contributing to the astronomical rise in house prices?

There is no foundation whatever for that suggestion.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will consider introducing legislation to control profit margins in the house building industry.

No, Sir.

:Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in a house costing £16,000 the various elements are: labour and materials £8,000, cost of land £5,000; and the builders are in the habit of adding to these two costs almost 25 per cent., that is, £3,000, bringing the cost of the house up to £16,000? That 25 per cent. profit is not a reasonable profit but is calculated on the basis of the maximum exploitation which can be had of the poor young couples who are trying to buy their homes. Is it not time that the Government took a grip of some of these things?

I must in honesty tell the House that the losses suffered by the building industry, and the number of bankruptcies incurred, in the last three years of the previous Government show that, even if I believed in statutory control of profits, I should not be justified in introducing it at this stage. Indeed, I have to say that, although the increase in house building has been quite dramatic since we came into office, the reason it has not been better is the damage inflicted on the industry by the Labour Party.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Question is misdirected and does not go to the important element of the problem, since much the more important aspect of it—certainly in the South East—is that there is disturbing evidence to suggest that the number of planning permissions given greatly exceeds the number of housing starts and completions? Is it not of the utmost importance to ensure that planning permissions given are acted upon and that strong measures are taken against those who, so it seems from the evidence at present available, are hoarding permissions to some extent?

:My hon. Friend will realise that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has been taking active steps to streamline and increase the speed of planning permissions and to tighten them up. This will help to produce the result at which we allaim. It is worth remembering in this connection that the previous Government never thought it possible to regulate dividends in the housing company world because of the complexity of the market.

That is not the point. Will the Minister do something to prevent the hoarding of planning permissions which is going on because, having got a planning permission, if one delays using it one makes a large capital profit? That is the evil which we are asking the right hon. Gentleman to tackle.

All the evidence available to us suggests that, in the present state of the market, builders want to use their land as fast as they can. Our real problem is that there is a shortage of land, and my right hon. Friend has been taking steps to make sure that more land becomes available to developers in the immediate future.

Did my right hon. Friend notice from a recent independent survey made by a firm employed by the National House-Builders' Registration Council which considered this problem in Hertfordshire that 238 acres of land were being withheld from the market and that just on 200 of them were in the possession of local authorities?

I observed that it gave Hertfordshire a better bill than some other parts of the country, but I take my hon. Friend's point.

:Is the Minister aware of a report just produced in that part of the country suffering the greatest pressure, the South East, by the Technical Panel of the Standing Conference on regional planning in London and the South-East which clearly shows that the main problem is failure to take up planning potential of land already made available by planning authorities and that of 120,000 potential planning permissions for dwellings only 95,000 have been taken up?

The hon. Gentleman seems to be straying rather wide of the Question, which asked whether I would limit the profits of the building industry.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what proposals he has to increase the percentage of the parking fine imposed by traffic wardens which is at present retained by local authorities; and if he will make a statement.

Parking fines and fixed penalties are in general paid into the Exchequer. I understand that in Scotland only there is a negotiated agreement whereby local authorities retain a part of fixed penalties.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in Scotland under the negotiated agreement local authorities retain only 2½p in each £ of the parking fine and that, as in England and Wales, local authorities, which are responsible for maintaining traffic wardens and all the other ancillary matters, are finding it very difficult to provide these services on the very limited resources available?

:I have no doubt that those responsible will note what the hon. Gentleman said. I believe that the share which local authorities in Scotland are permitted to retain under this arrangement is fixed by the Lord Treasurer's Remembrancer—a gentleman over whom I have little control.

:Will the Minister be completely candid and say whether he shares my opinion that far too few wardens are engaged on the important task of curbing illegal parking by the monster of the cities—the motor car? I asked the right hon. Gentleman a Question on this matter some months ago and his figures showed that in the place where I live, Merton, and the place where I work, Hull, and many other cities there were far too few wardens and that, in fact, the number officially allowed were not employed? Will he look into this matter with local authorities?

I will always endeavour to give the hon. Gentleman straight answers. I am very conscious of this difficult problem. The difficulty of enforcement of the parking meter system is increasing. I have recently been considering the matter very carefully and I hope that we shall be able to make some suggestions in the near future.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will encourage the creation of new villages as well as new towns.

I welcome initiatives for the development of new communities large and small, though each case must be considered on its merits and in the general planning context.

:Are not we stuffing too many workers into high-rise flats where they tend to live like battery hens, while people who want to live in the countryside cannot get a planning consent anywhere? Is it not a fact that, while preserving a green belt and agricultural land, tens of thousands of acres could still be made available to provide an infinitely improved environment in which people—admittedly a minority—desire to live? Will my right hon. Friend try to help?

I have very great sympathy with my hon. Friend's view, which I know is not new; he has pursued it over a number of years. If any proposals are brought forward, I shall make it my business to ensure that they are given sympathetic consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he is satisfied with progress to date on the Maplin Airport project; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. I hope to make a fuller statement before the House rises.

:Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a great deal of concern in the private sector and in industry generally that they are being virtually excluded from the planning stage? Is he also aware that there is a good deal of experience and knowledge on this project which is being wasted? How does he think we shall realise the export potential from the design of this airport—which is very considerable, as the French have already shown—unless there is a full and comprehensive partnership with industry?

I have made it clear in the past that we should organise the development of the airport in the public sector. That is still my belief.

The hon. Member for Mid-Bedfordshire (Mr. Hastings)was a leading member of the Cublington lobby and his solicitude for the development of Maplin may not be entirely disinterested. [HON. Members: "Withdraw."] Will the Minister assure the House that when he makes his statement—

On a point of order. The right hon. Gentleman has made some kind of accusation against me. My Question was entirely disinterested. I want to see the airport succeed. What does the right hon. Gentleman mean?

I should have thought that my meaning was patently clear. I said that the hon. Gentleman was a leading member of the Cublington lobby which was determined that the airport should be at Foulness regardless of what the people of Foulness thought. Therefore, his solicitude for Foulness is not disinterested. Will the Secretary of State assure us that, when he makes his statement, he will have taken the fullest account of all the representations made to him by the local authorities concerned, both generally and in particular, about the alignment of the first runway?

Yes, Sir.

:While appreciating the touchiness of my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Bedfordshire (Mr. Hastings), who represents the Cublington area, may I say that I am interested in ensuring that the minimum inconvenience is caused to my constituents? May I have my right hon. Friend's assurance that environmental considerations will predominate over all other considerations, including finance, in the case of Maplin as they did in the case of Cublington?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will set up vehicle noise check points on motorways and other main arterial roads.

:Roadside checks on vehicle noise are not easily carried out for technical reasons. I am now considering recommendations made by a working group of the Noise Advisory Council.

While I welcome my hon. Friend's reply, may I point out that there is a pressing need to control vehicle noise in towns and cities and that the present regulations, which require so much space for the installation of noise meters, mean that those metters are virtually uninstallable? Will he therefore consider the American system which uses noise checks on motorways?

:I agree that the present regulations are not satisfactory. Nor is the equipment, and, following the report of the Noise Advisory Council, we shall gladly consider any equipment likely to improve matters.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will introduce legislation to set up a system of licensing for property development in urban areas.

:No, Sir. Property development requires planning permission, and in London and the South East any application for offices in excess of 10,000 sq. ft. also requires an office development permit.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that a licensing system would prevent the scandalous misuse of waste land and rich men's follies like Centre Point?

The Government have made £80 million available to local authorities for the purchase of land for development and they have stated that in areas where the proper development of land is held up they will consider the issue of compulsory purchase orders. I have already announced that unless the problem of empty office blocks is solved within the next few months legislation will be introduced.

:Is the Secretary of State aware that, much as we deplore the crime of Centre Point, we are sick and tired of hon. Members on both sides of the House using Mr. Harry Hyams as a scapegoat for what is a general problem? It is not simply a problem of a couple of buildings which are in themselves a major scandal. Will the right hon. Gentleman take action to deal with the question of property speculation? If he needs any more information, I advise him to look at the centre spread of Private Eye today.

:Any proposals I make and any legislation I introduce in connection with office development will apply not simply to one company or individual but to everybody.

Would the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that he will be sympathetic to applications for CPOs from local authorities in the case of unused buildings, whether Centre Point or others?

I said quite clearly in my original statement on the problem of the availability of land for housing that I would sympathetically consider any application from local authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he intends to make a statement on the Channel Tunnel feasibility report before the House rises for the Summer Recess.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will now make a further statement on the Channel Tunnel.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on the progress of the discussions about the Channel Tunnel.

Negotiations are continuing. I will make a statement as soon as possible.

Does my right hon. Friend appreciate that 100 years have elapsed since this was first thought of, that present proposals have been considered for 12 years, and that development is still being held up and awaiting decision? Does he appreciate that the gestation of this tunnel is greater than that of the proverbial elephant? May we have an assurance that he is holding it up to make certain that we do not get a white elephant?

:I am not responsible for the gestation period of tunnels. Perhaps I can remind my hon. Friend of the fact that my responsibility in this matter has been for two years, a comparatively modest period compared with the 100 years to which he referred.

:Did my right hon. Friend see the pictures yesterday of the advanced passenger train emerging from Derby, and is he aware that many people consider that the advanced passenger train and the tunnel combined are a far better investment than Foulness Airport? Is he also aware of the congestion caused by the old-fashioned ferry services from Dover last weekend? Will he lend his great enthusiasm to doing as much as he possibly can to get the tunnel under way as quickly as possible?

I am doing my best to see that this important project receives the detailed and careful examination which it warrants in order that the promise which it undoubtedly holds out can be fully exploited if the difficulties and costs are not too great.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he has completed his consultations with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office about the provision of accommodation for that Department which is more consistent with the requirements of modern business practice; and if he will make a statement.

Consultations with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office—and other Departments—are continuing.

:However much one may admire the appearance of the present building, is my right hon. Friend bearing in mind that it is a quarter of a century since it was unanimously declared obsolete as a place for people to work in, and that it is eight years since the present Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, then the Minister of Works, said that it was an unsuitable building for its present purposes?

My hon. Friend has put down, I think, half a dozen Questions to me on this subject, and I am grateful to him for looking in on our proceedings today so that I can make a supplementary reply to his queries. I will give the most careful consideration to the arguments for and against rebuilding the old public offices. There are questions both of environment and of practicability to be considered.

Is not this a matter for the Lord President's remembrancer?

I will pass on the hon. Gentleman's question to the Lord President.

Would my right hon. Friend look, among other considerations, at the number of staff employed at the Foreign Office in 1914, when we were a great Power, and the number employed today when it is about 18 times as many? Will he see whether they can work a bit harder in their present accommodation?

I venture to submit that that question should be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether, in view of his Department's failure adequately to publicise the public inquiry into the proposed Mosborough expressway, he will review his Department's methods of publicising such inquiries.

The Department gave six weeks' notice of the public inquiry by means of advertisements in the Press and the placing of notices on the land. This appears to be quite adequate.

In view of the enormous and often adverse effects which his Department's decisions have on the quality of life of individual citizens today, is the Minister satisfied that the present arrangements for publicising those decisions and of providing for opportunities to make objections to them are sufficient to have full impact on those most affected, given the complexities of life today? For example, in addition to advertisements in the local Press why did he not take time on Yorkshire Television?

My right hon. Friend has it in mind where there are very large schemes with major impact, to enable further publicity to be given, so as perhaps to exceed the statutory requirements for publicity. As to television, I think that is a separate point. It has not been considered in the past, but the local Press and the London Gazette carried a very considerable number of advertisements on this scheme. Six weeks' notice seemed quite adequate.

Is the Minister aware that I do not read the London Gazette but that I live only 200 yards away from the expressway? Instead of just having notices stuck on trees, why could not we have had letters sent to our homes?

I do not know at which trees the hon. Member was looking. The Sheffield Star and the Sheffield Morning Telegraph which, presumably, the hon. Member does read, carried a number of advertisements about this.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will seek powers to restore subsidies for municipal housing in areas in which the housing list includes persons representing more than 5 per cent. of residents in the area concerned.

:The new subsidies under the Housing Finance Bill will meet about 75 per cent. of the deficits in the housing revenue account of those authorities which build to meet the housing needs of their area.

:Does the hon. Gentleman not agree that in areas such as Leicester, where over 8 per cent. of the population are included in the housing list, permanent and powerful help should be given to help the municipality to build homes for the people who are less well off, particularly the old, the young married couples and the disabled?

Yes, I would entirely agree, but I hope that the hon. Member will recognise that under the new Bill local authorities concerned no longer have to put up rents to meet deficits resulting from new building and that the liability for the ratepayers is limited to 25 per cent. of any deficit which may be incurred—in many cases it will not be incurred—as a result of new building.

:May I ask my right hon. Friend—the Minister for Housing and Construction this time—when he is considering these matters to satisfy himself as to the genuineness of these lists in view of the Sheffield survey?

Yes, indeed.

:Have the Government dropped their declared intention to reduce by up to £200 million a year the subsidies which would have been paid by 1975 under the present system?

I do not see how that supplementary question arises from the main Question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he is satisfied with the rate of progress in erecting central barriers on motorways; and if he will make a statement.

The rate of progress is being well maintained within the practical programme announced in August, 1970. I expect that 940 miles of motorway will be equipped with safety barriers by March, 1974.

May I remind the Minister that the appalling figure of 7,696 killed in 1971 was 2·5 per cent. higher than the figure in 1970 and that most of that increase occurred in non-built-up areas? Will he confirm that central barriers make a significant contribution to safety on motorways? Will he make sure that there is no hold up in erecting central barriers on the 560 miles of motorway which still have not got them?

I confirm that where traffic levels reach a certain peak, central barriers make a significant difference. That is one of the reasons why we have substantially speeded up the mileage of them to be provided from 1975 to 1974. We do all we can within the limits of materials, manpower and weather.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what recent representations he has had in the past regarding the need to prohibit long lorry loads from the roads, in view of the hazard they cause to other road users; and what replies he has sent.

I receive many representations on this subject; it would be neither practicable nor appropriate to publish my replies.

:Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that long lorry loads present an irritation, an inconvenience and an occupational hazard to all other road users? Is he aware that, because of this, other countries have prohibited this method of transport? Will he discuss with manufacturers materials that can be transported by rail for assembly at the point of delivery and so assist other users to enjoy our highways?

This matter is receiving the careful attention of the Government. The sensible policy, in view of the enormous contribution to the economy made by road transport, is to provide a modern system of highways and to confine the larger vehicles and the big loads to highways which can reasonably accommodate them.

:Will my right hon. Friend take active steps, particularly in national parks where long lorry loads are causing hazards to pleasure motorists, to confine long lorry loads to the main trunk roads going round the national parks?

Yes, Sir, I will. My hon. Friend and the House will be aware that any sensible policy will take a certain length of time to evolve.