asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what steps he intends to take against the so-called loyalists who threaten violence against Her Majesty's Forces.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney-General to a Question by the hon. Member for Manchester, Blackley (Mr. Rose) on 9th November.—[Vol. 845, c. 250.]

Can the Minister of State say what steps are being taken to remedy the ludicrous situation whereby members are financed by the British taxpayer to be trained in the UDR and are simultaneously members of the UDA? I do not wish to take sides in the matter, but is it not equally ludicrous that Mr. William Craig can make the kind of speeches that he has been making and still remain a Privy Councillor?

On the hon. Gentleman's second point, these kind of wild speeches are to be deplored. They make a mockery of the whole idea of the word "loyalty". On the question of membership of the UDR and the UDA, where there has been any evidence or sign of overlap, or even collusion, these matters are investigated carefully, and are for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence. On the hon. Gentleman's first point, 10 people have been arrested and charged with receiving weapons from the UDR. This is a matter that concerns the Government greatly, and it is watched very carefully.

I condemn violence from any section of the community, but does my hon. Friend agree that it is wrong to equate the violence of the IRA with the actions of some misguided loyalists, for whom there is the explanation that they have allowed some three years of terrorism and, admittedly, a sectarian campaign to break their praiseworthy restraint?

Arguments of frustration and violence there may be, but the plain fact is that violence is violence and law-breaking is lawbreaking. They must be dealt with firmly by the law and by the security forces wherever they occur.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on his proposals to assist persons in Belfast who are unable to obtain building society loans because of the troubles; and if he will authorise the Housing Executive to commence a large-scale scheme whereby they purchase houses which the occupants have been unable to sell, and let them out to suitable tenants.

The Northern Ireland Housing Executive intends to introduce a scheme within the next few weeks for granting loans for house purchases. This should help people who are unable to obtain building society loans.

Is the Minister of State aware that his reply will be broadly welcomed? One hopes that the scheme will be pressed on speedily.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for saying that. Certainly we are seeking to do something in this matter. I am pleased to say that for owner who cannot sell their properties not only is the Housing Executive seeking to buy up some of their houses; they will give help with the cost of purchasing their houses, including agents' fees and legal fees, where appropriate.

I thank my hon. Friend for a very helpful answer. Where the mortgagors have left because they have been intimidated, or whatever, there is no point in repossessing the property and trying to sell it. One is faced with the problem of getting rid of the property. Can the scheme be extended so that the building societies can be assisted by the Housing Executive in taking up these properties?

It is true that the building societies have been most helpful in very difficult circumstances. While I am not now in a position to answer my hon. Friend's question, I will look into it and see whether the building societies can be assisted in that way.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what has been the total number of civilian deaths in Northern Ireland since 25th March, 1972; and how many of these have been women and children.

237, between 25th March and 16th November, 1972, including 19 women and 23 children under 16.

Does the Minister of State appreciate that that is a very much higher casualty rate than before the political initiative in March? Will my hon. Friend give first priority to tougher security measures, which are necessary to reduce the terrible toll of death and injury.

It is undeniable that there is a terrible toll of death and injury, but the inference in my hon. Friend's question seems to be that the toll is in some way due to the action of the Government. That I must firmly question and refute. My hon. Friend will know that very firm action is being taken and I absolutely pledge that that will continue.

Is the Minister of State aware that there is a great deal of con- cern about the erection of what are called car-bomb preventive barriers? The Chief of the Belfast Fire Brigade said this morning that the barriers may prove to be a fire risk, and will possibly increase rather than decrease the number of casualities. Will the hon. Gentleman look again at these preventive barriers?

The problem of these barriers is being looked at by the Army. Any question of the law being taken into individual hands, by whoever it may be, is strongly to be deprecated.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will give the number of prosecutions during the last 12 months in Northern Ireland for the illegal possession of arms.

The figure is 484

I am sure that the Minister will agree that these are extremely disappointing figures in view of the known vast numbers of illegal arms that are in circulation. Can the hon. Gentleman say what further action the Government intend to take to try to reduce the number of illegally-held arms, and can he, in particular, say what action they intend to take to stop the exportation of arms from this country—especially from the north of England and Scotland—to Northern Ireland?

The security forces always want to capture more illegally-held arms, but it would be wrong to write down the very considerable successes there have been in discovering caches of arms. Major finds have been made in both Protestant extremist areas and in Provisional IRA areas in many places in Belfast and the countryside, and considerable numbers of illegal weapons have been picked up. Nevertheless, we remain very concerned about, and are making stronger efforts to stop, the importation of weapons used to murder innocent women and children, and soldiers.

I join in those sentiments, and welcome the very great success of the robot telephone system, but has my hon. Friend any estimate of the total number of illegal arms held at present in Northern Ireland?

I cannot give an estimate. Almost by definition, the arms we do not know about are those that we want to find. There can be no estimate of illegally and secretly held arms.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what discussion he has had with the head of the Royal Ulster Constabulary about reorganising the force in such a way as to make it more able to take back responsibility for internal security in Northern Ireland.

My right hon. Friend's discussions with the chief constable and the police authority on the future internal security role of the Royal Ulster Constabulary have shown that the real need is not a reorganisation of the force but a steady build up of its effective strength. This is being achieved.

My hon. Friend will no doubt remember my right hon. Friend's statement in the debate on Monday that the establishment of the force was to be 5,000 in 1975. The establishment of the force is now just over 4,000, at a time when crime has never been more prevalent and when detection rates are ever lower. We have the chief constable's report, and there is no doubt that the RUC—

Order. This is Question Time. What is the hon. Member's question?

I am leading up to the point I want to make, Mr. Speaker. In those circumstances, is my hon. Friend satisfied that this figure of 5,000 by 1st April, 1975—three years away—is credible?

My hon. Friend should distinguish between establishment and actual success in recruiting. We would, of course, like to go beyond an establishment of 5,000, but there is no point in raising the establishment to that figure until we have recruited manpower to the existing establishment level. At the moment recruiting has taken an encouraging up-turn, but we want to move forward. If we are successful we shall be able to raise the establishment figure but, as I say, to do so would be pointless until we get the necessary manpower.

Is the Minister of State aware that with the present increase in violence in Northern Ireland, the growth of such bodies as the UDA, and with really a war-time situation, many people would be willing to help in the formation of civil defence corps? Could not these be enlisted by the Army to protect people from bombings and shootings by night in Belfast?

Those who are willing to help have the UDR to join, if they so wish, or they can apply, if they have the necessary qualifications, to join the police or the police reserve, which are recognised official security forces and the forces of law and order. They can join these if they so wish.

The Minister of State has just said that people can join the UDR and other organisations. Will he now state what on Monday night his hon. Friend was not prepared to state, which is that membership of the UDA is not compatible with membership of the UDR or any other recognised security force in Northern Ireland?

The Government's view is quite clear. It is that the first loyalty of members of the UDR is to the security forces, and to the Army. That has been clearly said.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what action he proposes to take to increase recruiting for the Royal Ulster Constabulary.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to a Question from my hon. Friend the Member for Down, North (Mr. Kilfedder) on 15th November.

Does my hon. Friend recognise that one of the most disturbing factors in the security situation in Northern Ireland is the low state of morale in the Royal Ulster Constabulary; and that this is bound to be an inhibiting factor in getting the recruitment that we all want?

While not agreeing entirely with my hon. Friend, the problems over there and the vulnerability of the police make recruitment extremely difficult. That must mean that we should give every encouragement to them that we possibly can, and so encourage the further recruitment that we are seeking.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will list the meetings he has had with representatives of the trade union movement in Northern Ireland.

My right hon. Friend met the Northern Ireland Committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions on 5th April, 15th May and 13th September, 1972. He met Mr. William Blease, the Northern Ireland officer of the committee, on 18th September and 31st October.

Am I correct in understanding that meetings will take place between his right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and representatives of the Irish trade unions in Belfast over the next day or so? Can we have a statement in the House at the earliest possible moment about these meetings, because it is of the utmost importance that we should appreciate that the trade union movement in Northern Ireland is playing a vital part in keeping business going in the Province?

The trade union movement to which the hon. Gentleman refers is one of those bodies which will have the opportunity of making representations to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, for he is consulting a very wide section of opinion in Northern Ireland. I gladly join with the hon. Gentleman in the tribute that he has rightly paid to the trade union movement in Northern Ireland.

As the Prime Minister would, in the words of the Secretary of State, like to appraise himself of the facts as they are, will he also endeavour to see the United Loyalist Council, because it is most important that firmly held Loyalist opinion should be clearly understood by the Government in seeking to achieve a just solution?

I think that my right hon. Friend had it in mind to see representatives of those bodies whom he had not had an opportunity to meet and, in the political field, to do so with established political parties.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, if he is satisfied with the measures taken by the police and the Army to provide continuous protection for isolated families living in Border areas in County Fermanagh, particularly where a member of the family is serving in one of the forces of the Crown; and if he will make a statement.

The security forces are taking all practicable steps to help protect families who live close to the Border with the Republic of Ireland.

My hon. Friend cannot really believe that I can be satisfied with that answer, particularly in view of Republican terrorist action in the past few weeks along the Border in Fermanagh when, for instance, there was a five-hour siege of the Latimer family farm, the murder of two Protestants in Derrylin, the murder of a member of the Ulster Defence Regiment and the attempted murder of his brother, who also serves in the UDR, when both were off-duty and were travelling to their farm. Many other people along the Border, not just in Fermanagh, are living under the threat of death. Are not these British subjects entitled to the same protection as other subjects in the rest of the United Kingdom, instead of being exposed to activities by terrorists who operate from the other side of the Border and live in a Wild West situation reminiscent of the worst period of American history?

I agree that these are appalling incidents, and constant efforts are being made by the security forces—by means of patrols, and so on—to prevent or minimise the sort of atmosphere being created. My noble Friend the Minister of State was down on the Border a week or two ago and made a very close study, and has reported in detail on his conclusions. At the same time, further discussions have been continuing about the way in which Border security can be strengthened so that we can come to decisions on these matters, but we recognise that this is an extremely difficult situation.

Is the Minister aware that we met residents from Fermanagh, as I am sure other Members did, and we know that life is impossible for people on the Border? We understand the Army's difficulties because of the spread-out nature of the terrain. Is there not a radio communication system similar to that used by car-hire firms which could be set up in the area to enable people whose lives are quite terrifying, from the descriptions we hear, to get into touch with the security forces at short notice?

The security forces are, of course, in radio contact with each other, but it may be possible to develop a wider network of radio communication. We recognise the difficulties. I have been down there and seen some of the unpleasantness of it. The prime consideration is that to close and patrol the Border with massive manpower would take troops away from areas where they are being highly effective against the IRA. That may be exactly what the IRA want.

Has my hon. Friend any new proposals to meet the worsening situation in the Border areas, and will he look carefully at the suggestion of a radio network?

New proposals are being studied, including the idea of vehicle documentation, and decisions will be made.

Is the Minister of State aware that this is a problem not just within the so-called Loyalist community but also in the so-called Nationalist community? There is fear on both sides in the Border and country areas. Therefore, the idea of my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, South (Mr. Merlyn Rees) for some sort of radio communication for civilians—as used with walkie-talkie systems by policemen in this country—would be just the sort of thing for isolated hamlets of both Loyalist and Nationalist communities to protect them from intimidation.

That is an idea—and a number of other proposals are being and will be studied.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he expects to receive the report on the committee appointed to examine the Special Powers Act.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he anticipates receiving the Report of the Commission on Imprisonment and Internment in Northern Ireland.

I assume that hon. Members are referring to the commission chaired by Lord Diplock which is considering the administration of justice in connection with terrorism in Northern Ireland. The commission is proceeding with its work with great urgency; but it is too soon to say when its report will be received. My right hon. Friend is reviewing those parts of the Special Powers Act outside the commission's terms of reference.

I am grateful to the Minister of State for his reply, but will he bear in mind that whatever procedure is employed—be it the detention of terrorists order or the old straight forward detention and internment order as existed under Unionist-controlled Stormont—the present method of dealing with people suspected of terrorism—and the Government have yet to define that term—is unsatisfactory? The general body of the public must be given the opportunity of weighing, judging and considering the evidence against those people who are interned. Until that is achieved this continuing sore will exist and cast into grave difficulties whatever hopes the Government have for a successful policy.

The ideal which the Government and everyone else would like would be the normal and effective processes of the workings of the law. I do not accept the hon. Member's coupling of internment with the present processes under the detention of terrorists order, which is to be debated here shortly, or with the new proposals which may emerge from the Diplock Commission. Under the detention of terrorists order legal representation is allowed, as are appeals. That is a definite improvement on the internment process, and one that should be welcomed.

But surely the Minister would not equate the procedure under the detention of terrorists order with the normal working of the courts. Since it seems that we may have that order with us for some little time, will he say how many interim custody orders have been made under that procedure, and how many detention orders?

I certainly did not equate the two. My point was that they were distinct and different. The present number of those committed to interim custody is, I believe, six although I shall write to the hon. and learned Member if it is higher.

Is my hon. Friend not aware that the ordinary processes of law cannot operate in a situation of carefully planned and deliberate violence and intimidation? Magistrates have been attacked and shot and Crown witnesses have been killed. In those circumstances the ordinary processes of law cannot work.

That is the difficulty about terrorist activity. But it must be recognised—and I am sure that my hon. Friend will welcome the development—that more and more people have shown themselves ready to come forward and give information or use the robot telephone, which has been very effective, thus providing evidence on which terrorists can be arrested.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will impose a speed limit on the approach road to Aldergrove Airport between Nutts corner and Antrim.

I am not aware of the need for a speed limit on the approach roads to Aldergrove Airport. If my hon. Friend will let me know his reasons for suggesting a speed limit on any particular stretch of road I will arrange for the matter to be investigated.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that there have been a number of fatal accidents on the trunk road leading east from the airport? I trust that this will not cause any great amusement on the Labour benches. In recent months speeds of 100 mph have been not uncommon, and the volume of traffic is increasing rapidly because of the five major roads feeding into the roundabout.

More definite and precise information is required of the exact spot at which my hon. Friend would like the speed limit imposed. An important criterion is that a speed limit should be realistic and capable of being enforced, so we must know where the spot is and where the dangers are. I shall probably be travelling along this road a considerable number of times in the near future and I shall personally investigate for the hon. Member.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he intends to publish a White Paper of his proposals for constitutional arrangements in Northern Ireland.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to a Question by the hon. Member for Down, North (Mr. Kilfedder) on 9th November.—[Vol. 845, c. 224.]

Does the Minister of State not realise that the position is completely unsatisfactory? If the proposed Bill passes unamended people will be asked to take part in a poll without knowing what their future connection with the United Kingdom will be. Does he not think that before any decision is taken on the border poll Bill the people of Northern Ireland as a whole should know the Government's intentions for their country?

The hon. Member will recall that in the debate on Monday the Government listened to a considerable cross-section of views. On this point, perhaps not unusually, they were conflicting. Those views are being considered carefully, and when the House is invited to consider the Bill the matter can be considered further.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind the need for speed in the matter? I have found that the feeling on all sides is that there has been enough talk over the last seven months and that there would be great merit in the Government's making definite proposals at the earliest possible moment.

That is what I attempted to say on Monday night, as my hon. Friend will remember, consistent with carefully taking the views of a very wide cross-section of people—a process which is in part going on today.

Will the Minister concede that we must have the White Paper before the end of the year?

These are matters best dealt with when next the House is invited to consider the Bill.

When the White Paper is published, will the Minister of State give an assurance to the people of Northern Ireland that their Westminster representation will be increased, because if we compare representation in this country—and Northern Ireland is a part of this country—their representation is grossly undemocratic.

If I express a view either way upon that proposition, clearly I would be expressing a view upon a very central issue which must be dealt with by the White Paper. We must await the publication of that White Paper.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will introduce an automatic signalling system on the rail link between Antrim and Lisburn to warn users of level crossings of approaching trains.

No, Sir. The operation of the railways, including the installation of automatic signalling systems at crossings, is a matter for the Northern Ireland Railways Company. I understand that it considers that no crossings in this rail line will require automatic barriers and signals, even after the re-introduction of passenger services.

But is my hon. Friend aware that on that section between Lisburn and Antrim the line of sight is often less than 500 yards? Will he take steps to ensure that an efficient automatic system is installed, so that a signal is visible from any point on the line?

I was not aware of the facts that my hon. Friend has presented. I understand that the line is being used only for freight trains, but that passenger services will be restored, and that when that is done a telephone will be provided on each side of the crossing so that anyone wishing to cross may call the nearest signal box to check whether it is safe to do so. I believe that that will help considerably with what is a difficult problem, and one that could be unpleasant.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will review the Malicious Damage Acts, with a view to seeking powers to extend coverage to categories of genuine loss which are not currently covered either by the Acts or by insurance.

The Criminal Injury Acts (Northern Ireland) 1956–1970 provide a code of law designed specifically to deal with compensation for malicious damage to property. It would be inappropriate to extend that legislation to cover the diverse sources of loss which have arisen either directly or indirectly from unrest in Northern Ireland.

Is my hon. Friend aware that hijacking of goods vehicles has become a major problem in Belfast, that it is happening every day and that whisky obtained by that illegal means is now being sold on the open market at £1 a bottle? Is he also aware that in such hijacking the contents of the vehicles are not covered by normal insurance, nor by the Malicious Damage Acts, which do not cover loss and theft? This is an unsatisfactory situation. Could it be looked at again?

I am always very willing to look at such matters continuously, and to discuss them with my hon. Friend, but I know that with his long experience of the law he will understand that the kind of extension of the law that he requires would place a substantial financial burden upon the State.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what latest figures she has for the number of qualified applicants who have been refused university places.

The best and latest information available is contained in the Statistical Supplement to the Ninth Report of the Universities Central Council for Admissions, 1970–71. I am sending the hon. Member a copy.

Having seen that, do the Government share the publicly-stated anxieties of the vice-chancellors about the future intakes of students, given the very real uncertainties that surround the quinquennium?

The vice-chancellors probably have differing views about the intakes. I hope before long to make an announcement about the quinquennium.

Is not it a myth that all qualified applicants can derive some benefit from attending university? Is not there quite a strong case for arguing that at least a modest minority of qualified applicants can obtain more satisfaction from going straight from school into some other occupation?

An increasing number of qualified applicants have been going to polytechnics and further education colleges. Some of them prefer to go out into the world first and then, perhaps, to go into the higher education system later.

Does the right hon. Lady agree that whatever figures she has for graduate unemployment they are no argument for reducing the Government's proposals for a higher education programme, because not enough is known about the circumstances of graduate unemployment?

I think that the hon. Gentleman will find when the quinquennium is announced that it provides for an increase in the number of university places.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if she will reopen the list of direct grant schools; and if she will recapitulate her policy towards these schools.

I have not found it possible to reopen the list. My policy is to encourage the existing direct grant schools, and I have done this by improving the arrangements for fee remission and the rate of capitation grant.

I acknowledge the great help that my right hon. Friend has been to these admirable institutions, which are a bridge between the public sector and the private sector, but could not she reconsider her decision not to re-open the list?

I have never wholly closed my mind upon the matter, but it is a question of what can be done within the time available. I should like to reassure my hon. Friend that in due course I will certainly reconsider the question.

May I remind the right hon. Lady of the promise in the Gracious Speech to set new priorities in education? In implementing that promise, will she forget about any further privileges for the direct grant schools and concentrate on making greater provision in staffing, buildings, equipment—and almost everything else—in schools for the handicapped, where the situation is rapidly becoming a national scandal?

The direct grant schools perform an excellent service to the nation's children. I agree that the schools for the mentally and physically handicapped also do so, and we hope to improve the capital programme for them in the future, as in the past.

Will my right hon. Friend consider the matter very soon, because more places need to be provided in direct grant schools? In this connection I should like to refer to Oral Question No. 18, which was not asked, because there is great pressure in the areas that it mentions for more school places of every kind.

I cannot say when I shall reconsider the reopening of the direct grant list. We have done as much as we can to help such schools to take pupils, whatever their background, and in this connection have done a great deal through the incomes remission scale.

asked the Minister of State for Defence if he is satisfied with the Army civilian arrest procedures currently employed in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement.

I have nothing to add to the reply by my right hon. Friend the then Minister of State for Defence, to a similar Question by the hon. Member on 22nd June.—[Vol. 839, c. 695–6.]

And yet the most disturbing allegations continue to be made about a minority of that very small number of British soldiers employed in civilian arrest procedures in Northern Ireland. When a distinguished and reputable newspaper like the Irish Times runs—as it did on 7th November—a story such as that under a headline like, "Man says soldier burnt"—

Order. There can be no quotation from a newspaper at Question Time.

When a newspaper like the Irish Times runs a story under a headline like, "Man says"—

Order. The hon. Gentleman must not quote either a headline or any part of a newspaper. I am sorry to have to take up time to remind him, but it is one of the old rules of the House that newspapers cannot be quoted from in Question Time.

With respect, Mr. Speaker, I was not aware that I had done that. I thought that I had deliberately paraphrased it.

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman talked about preserving the good name of our soldiers in Northern Ireland. There is a campaign by extremist elements in Northern Ireland to discredit the armed forces. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would not wish to say anything to support that campaign.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is always a series of complaints against people who wish only to do their duty fairly and impartially? Will he pay particular attention to answering such allegations, which are bandied about particularly in the United States, and use our information services to answer these points?

The answer to both parts of my hon. Friend's question is, "Yes", but we look into any allegations that are made.

I accept that it is easy to make such allegations, just as it is easy to ill-treat people who are undergoing interrogation, but will the Minister set everyone's mind at rest by investigating the matter?

As the hon. and learned Gentleman knows, interrogation is not carried out by the armed forces.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what is the total number of military casualties and deaths which have taken place in Northern Ireland as a result of the current terrorist campaign up to 24th March, 1972, and from 25th March, 1972, to date.

As a result of terrorist or other hostile actions, the Army, including the Ulster Defence Regiment, sustained 66 killed and 564 wounded between August, 1969, and 24th March, 1972; 98 have been killed and 409 wounded between 25th March and 15th November, 1972. Since this is my first appearance at this Dispatch Box I would like to pay a tribute to our forces, who have conducted themselves magnificently.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Has he noticed that since the political initiative in March the rate of casualties in the Army has increased approximately fourfold? Will my hon. Friend say why, in his opinion, there has been this dramatic increase in the number of casualties since the political initiative was taken?

I think it is right to say that it has always been understood that the introduction of direct rule carried certain risks for the community and for our forces. But we believe that it was entirely right to accept these risks in order to bring about conditions in which political developments could take place, for no purely military solution was or is possible. I draw my hon. Friend's attention to the present trend of military casualties. Over the past few months, the number of regular soldiers killed was 17 in August, 11 in September, five in October and two, so far, in November.

Bearing in mind the increased terrorist activity in the exposed county of Fermanagh, will my hon. Friend consider the use of helicopter patrols with fire power, which would reduce the military casualties in Northern Ireland?

All appropriate measures are considered, and I shall bear that suggestion in mind.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what further steps he is taking to maintain a balance in recruitment into the Ulster Defence Regiment between the different religions among the volunteers.

Recruiting in general has been good but we would like to see an improvement in the balance. We are continuing to do what we can to this end.

I appreciate my hon. Friend's answer, but will he do his utmost to ensure that the balance of recruitment and the balance of retention are improved between the different religions in the Province, as this matter gives rise to great anxiety?

I accept entirely what my hon. Friend says. As I have already mentioned, we are considering all possible ways of improving the situation. It is doubtful whether anything spectacular can be done in the short run, but for the present our efforts to recruit more Roman Catholics are local in character, mainly through personal contact and the local work of battalion and company commanders. The UDR Advisory Council believes that at present this is the right line.

Is the Minister aware of reports that UDR vehicles have been seen flying a red hand flag? If these reports have been investigated and substantiated, what action has the Minister taken?

I shall investigate the position referred to by the hon. Gentleman.

Yesterday my hon. Friend was kind enough to give me some statistics of recent recruitment to the UDR. Does he not agree that there has been a marked falling off in applications to join this regiment from both communities in the last few months and an increase in the number of resignations? Will he do his best to accelerate recruitment?

I do not entirely accept what my hon. Friend says. Recruitment generally is going well. The cause for concern is the falling off in the level of recruitment from the Roman Catholic side.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what is the total number of headquarters staff employed in his Department; and how many of them are located in development areas.

The total number of headquarters staff employed in the Ministry of Defence is approximately 20,800 of which some 3,100 are Service personnel. Less than 100 are located in the development areas.

Is that not a scandalous state of affairs? Why should not a large number of these civil servants be located outside London, and especially in the development areas? Following the Hard-man Report, will the hon. Gentleman give a pledge that there will be a large-scale dispersal of Ministry of Defence personnel out of London and into the development areas?

I do not think that it is a scandalous state of affairs. As the hon. Gentleman knows, quite a lot of headquarters staffs have been dispersed away from London, and the Ministry of Defence is taking part in a location of Government review which is now taking place. The review co-ordinator will be reporting by the end of the year.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when Her Majesty's Government is intending to sign the European Au Pair Convention.

Not at present; but I shall continue to keep the position under review.

Has my hon. Friend considered that I first approached the previous Conservative Government, then the Socialist Government, and now the present Conservative Government about this? This has been going on for 12 years. What does my hon. Friend mean by "soon"? Does he mean the near future?

I did not say "soon". I know my hon. Friend's great interest in this matter. We have genuine doubts whether the formal arrangements provided for in this agreement would in practice provide any effective additional protection for either party in these arrangements. Most of them work well on a voluntary basis and we should want a Jot of convincing that an agreement would improve things. However, I am willing to meet my hon. Friend again and discuss this matter, if she would like that.

As most of these girls trouble to learn English and French and the problem of protecting them is almost entirely a matter for the British and French Governments, will the Minister work with the French Government and discuss how these girls can be protected, and not constantly delay until the convention is accepted?

There is no delaying about it. If it would help to have discussions with the French Government, we certainly shall, but in the vast majority of cases the arrangements work very well on an informal basis and we do not want to upset this without very good reason.