asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what percentage of the catch of fish caught off Iceland in the area between the 12-mile limit and Iceland's unilateral 50-mile limit is landed in Scottish ports.

In 1971 about 4 per cent. by weight of the United Kingdom catch taken in Icelandic waters was landed in Scotland.

Would my hon. Friend agree that, while one should not minimise the danger to the fishing interests of this country from the action of Iceland, that answer underlines the importance to Scotland of the inshore fishing industry? In all his negotiations in Brussels, will he keep this very much in mind?

The inshore fishing industries are of vital importance not only to the economy of Scotland as a whole but also to those places where they are particularly active and represent a real force for development.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that the real danger of the Icelandic limits is that they will divert fishing from those waters to waters outside the existing limits, around Orkney and Shetland? Has he any indication that there has been more trawling in those waters than previously? If he does not have that information now, will he guarantee to keep a close eye on the situation?

I take the right hon. Gentleman's point. Not only in our nearer waters but in other waters such as around the Faroes where the Scottish mid-water fleet fishes, the situation could be serious. We will keep an eye on this; I take the point about monitoring what happens there.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will cause the Scottish Development Department to initiate a study of the effect of regional development policies in Scotland on the rate of redundancies.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action the Scottish Office is taking to monitor the effects of the most recent set of Government policies on the Scottish economy.

The Scottish Economic Planning Board, on which are represented all the Departments concerned, keeps a continuing close watch on all aspects of the Scottish economy.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, so far, the present economic development policies do not seem to have had very much effect on the rate of redundancies? More important, will he arrange for the Government to make an early statement on the future of the regional employment premium which, as he knows, is worth £40 million to Scotland and is supposed to be phased out after 1974? Will he look at this so that incoming industrialists can be given some guarantee that this £40 million will not be taken away from Scotland after 1974?

On the first point, I am sure that the whole House will have been pleased to see the improvement in the unemployment figures, particularly last month. On the second point, REP is due to run the course—seven years—set for it by the previous Government. Industrialists know that it is due to be phased out after September, 1974, but it is still too early to know exactly what conditions there may be then.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware, from the information he has been given, that as regards male unemployment Scotland's progress is much poorer than that of the Midlands? Does he not agree that this is because the Government have effectively demolished IDC policy as a relocation instrument during a period of growth?

No, I utterly refute that. The IDC policy is still a mainstay of the system. All that has been done is to change it to suit present circumstances.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that one of the greatest dangers to employment and prosperity in the west of Scotland is the reorganisation plans of the British Steel Corporation? Can he give a clear assurance that he will be fully consulted before any decision is made by the Government on this matter?

The British Steel Corporation has placed its long-term investment plans before the Government and these are being considered. The chairman of the corporation has made certain statements about redundancies, which the House knows about.

Exactly what advice has the right hon. Gentleman had from his advisory council? Had it anything to say about the relaxation of IDC policy or the likely loss, from the point of view of attracting and assisting labour-intensive industry, caused by the disappearance of REP?

I presume that the right hon. Gentleman is referring to the Scottish Economic Council. There, all these matters are discussed and different views put forward, but the result is that I get advice from distinguished and leading Scots in different sectors of industry, trade and the unions.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has to meet representatives of the Scottish Pensions Association.

My right hon. Friend has received no request for a meeting with the Scottish Old Age Pensions Association, to which I assume the hon. Gentleman is referring.

Is the Minister aware that the thousands of pensioners from Scotland who are lobbying Parliament today regard the Government's £10 hardship payment as derisory almost to the extent of being insulting? [AN HON. MEMBER: "Utter rubbish."] Would not the Minister agree that it is time we made a break from the policy of successive Governments of paying pensions which barely provide subsistence for pensioners? Will he do everything he can to persuade his right hon. Friends in the Cabinet to do everything possible to alleviate the hardship and poverty which exists amongst Scottish pensioners?

All hon. Members in the House, the Government and the Opposition, want to do their very best for old-age pensioners. Indeed the Government have made very drastic steps forward compared with the situation before 1970. I shall not weary the House by reciting the long list of improved benefits, but certainly the Government have this matter very much in their hearts.

Is not the Opposition's attitude particularly sickening in its hypocrisy in view of the fact that when they were in office they were asked to institute pensions for the over-80s but refused, and they were asked for an annual review of pensions, which they refused? Will my hon. Friend seek to emphasise at any meeting he may have with pensioners' associations that the buying power of the pension is now higher than ever and in spite of inflationary pressures is 12 per cent. higher than when the previous Government were in office?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for driving home the point I was making. Members of the present Government, and indeed all Scottish Members in the House today, will be seeing old-age pensioners today and I am sure that we shall make these points very clear.

In the light of the information the hon. Gentleman has received from the Government side of the House, is it not necessary that he meets the Lobby to try to get acquainted with the facts and the realities of how old-age pensioners are at present trying to live with the terrifically high cost of living we are experiencing?

I certainly expect to see old-age pensioners in the Lobby today. I shall be making to them the points I have made in the Chamber to explain how much more the present Government have done for pensioners than the previous Government did.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has received an invitation to be represented at the Second Scottish Assembly on Unemployment on 15th January, 1973; and if he has asked to address the Assembly.

I have received an invitation, as a Member of Parliament, but for the reasons which I explained fully to the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton) on 27th January in relation to the first such conference [Vol. 829, c. 521] it would not be appropriate for me to attend.

Why not?

The General Secretary on that occasion informed me that the difficulty about a Minister attending was clearly understood.

But if the right hon. Gentleman were to change his mind and a specific invitation was made to him to address the conference, what would be his attitude towards informing the conference on the question of unemployment and about employment prospects for the Scottish people this winter? Would he have to inform them that his Government and he were so apathetic that as yet they have not worked out a winter work programme in order to alleviate the scandalous level of unemployment in Scotland?

On the first point, the object of the last conference was stated to be to prepare proposals and demands for presentation to the Government. It is difficult for a Minister belonging to that Government to take part in preparing such proposals to be made to the Government. That was perfectly well understood. Regarding the second point, I have already referred to the recent unemployment trends, which are, fortunately, favourable for Scotland.

In the light of the right hon. Gentleman's previous promises in relation to Hunterston, in the event of the British Steel Corporation decision going against Hunterston would he not then resign and be able to visit the assembly in a private capacity?

I hope that my views about Hunterston are well known and have not been too much twisted by the hon. Gentleman and other Opposition Members. They have been well set out in HANSARD and elsewhere over the last three years or so. They are that I believe that this valuable site should be used in the best possible ways for Scotland, whatever industries or combination of industries may be involved.

Will the Secretary of State reconsider the question of his attendance at the assembly? Is there not a clear case for him to attend as Secretary of State at this the second assembly? In view of the very wide-ranging and representative nature of the audience, is it not a very appropriate gathering which he should address on this subject?

This is a matter for those arranging the assembly. It has certainly not been the view of the General Secretary of the STUC, because of the aims which he has had for the previous conference and, I believe, for this one. This is a matter for them. But there are other occasions when I am able to put the Government's views.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many private tenants qualify for a rent allowance.

Some 150,000 tenants of privately-owned unfurnished accommodation in Scotland will come within the scope of the scheme for rent allowances, but how many of them will qualify for allowances cannot be estimated because particulars of rent levels and the income of tenants are not available.

Bearing in mind the freeze imposed by the Government, may we have an assurance that the tenants who are eligible will receive the rent allowance? As the Minister is aware from correspondence I have had with him, some landlords are now endeavouring to increase their rents by 300 per cent., and in two cases by 1,000 per cent. That is because of the Act which is now on the Statute Book. Is the Minister now prepared to reconsider the situation and to have the Act put in a freeze until such time as the country gets on its feet again?

If increases of that sort are being imposed on tenants, they are under the previous Government's Act and not under the present Government's Act. The law of the land states that rent allowances will be brought in on 1st January, and it is certainly my intention that the law of the land should be carried out and that all private tenants should be eligible for this rent allowance from 1st January. This is a much-needed reform and it is a pity that it was not introduced a long time ago.

May we have a positive assurance that no private tenant anywhere in Scotland will lose any of this allowance because his local authority is defying the Act?

I am obliged to my hon. Friend. I can only say that if any local authorities are thinking of defying the Act and not introducing rent allowances, they will cause considerable hardship to many of the inhabitants in their areas and will not lightly be forgiven. I hope they will think very carefully about that.

Does the figure of 150,000 tenants include the 90,000 covered in the Act and who are to be brought into the fair rents system, or were to be brought into it, in three sections, or is 150,000 the entire total? Secondly, when will the Minister introduce the Bill to amend the fair rent Act and bring it into line with the recommendations made by the previous committees and through correspondence he has had?

I am not quite sure of the point to which the hon. Gentleman was referring latterly about bringing it into line. A Bill is due to be introduced to extend rent allowances to furnished accommodation as well as unfurnished accommodation. In reply to the hon. Gentleman's first point, we estimate—it can only be an estimate—that about 150,000 tenants will qualify for rent allowance, but if there should be more the money is available and I hope that they will get it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, in view of the fact that new town rents are substantially in excess of average council rents, he will now instruct the development corporations to freeze existing rents to the end of 1974.

No, Sir. The higher average house rents in the new towns reflect both the relatively modern nature of the housing stock in these towns and their greater amenity and better environment.

The Under-Secretary must know that that is not right and that there are modern council houses comparable to the modern houses in new towns where the rents are completely different. Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that in some new towns in Scotland rents are more than double the average council rents in Scotland? In those circumstances, ought not the tenants to have the kind of preferential treatment suggested in the Question?

The average rents in new towns are in general higher than the average rent in local authorities. This reflects, in exactly the same way as it did under the Labour Government, the different nature of the housing, the better amenity standard and the newer nature of the house. All new town tenants are fully protected against hardship by the national rent rebate scheme, which means that nobody will be expected to pay a rent he cannot afford.

Is not the wide differential which now exists the direct result of the Labour Government's forcing new towns and the Scottish Special Housing Association to charge higher rents while leaving local authorities to charge what rents they liked?

I well remember what my hon. Friend said at the time, when he came out strongly against that policy. One of the effects of the new Housing Finance Act is to narrow the gap in future years between new towns and the local authorities. As all tenants are protected by rent rebate schemes, it is certain that they will all be protected from any hardship.

is the hon. Gentleman aware that in Irvine new town rent levels are two and a half times the average rent in Scotland? Are not these tenants entitled to protection against further increases if wage rates are to be frozen?

It very much depends upon whether one takes the view that new town rents are too high or local authority rents are too low. This is exactly the same policy as was followed by the Labour Government, as the right hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross) knows full well.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will take steps to ensure that all tenants who are or will be entitled to rent rebates or rent allowances under the Housing Act actually receive them.

My right hon. Friend arranged for the introduction of the rent rebate scheme by 1st October to be extensively publicised in the Press, on television and by leaflets. The introduction of rent allowances by 1st January will be similarly publicised. In addition, local authorities are required to publicise the rent rebate and allowance schemes, and landlords are required to make details of the rent allowance scheme available to private tenants.

Has my hon. Friend noted from details of the cases which I have sent him that some of my constituents are, over a five-year period, facing rent increases of as much as 500 per cent. as a result of the Act introduced by the Labour Government in 1969? Would it not be shameful if the Labour-controlled Glasgow Corporation were to deprive these tenants who cannot afford the increases of the rent allowances provided under our Act?

I fully agree with my hon. Friend and I wish to make clear, endorsing what he has said, that any such increases as he now mentions are taking place under the Act passed by the last Labour Government, in which no provision whatever was made for rent allowances for those who could not afford to pay. It would be a crying shame if, added to that, the rent allowances were not made available from 1st January, as I very much hope they will be.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that one matter which is causing considerable concern is the sheer complexity of the rent allowance form, which many people, especially older people, find very difficult to fill in? Will he give serious thought to instructing local authorities, particularly some of the larger authorities, to consider making special provision to assist people in the filling up of these forms?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that matter. We had fairly extensive debate about it on the Report stage of the Bill, when hon. Members on both sides, including my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward Taylor), made some helpful suggestions. We thought we had made the form reasonably simple, and I assure the hon. Gentleman that rent officers are careful to do all they can to help people. However, if he has any specific cases which he would like to put to me, I shall be glad to do my best to help in what I know is a difficult problem.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the average rent charged in Dundee by the Dundee Corporation per house per week, and by how much this fell short of the figure necessary under the terms of the Housing (Financial Provisions) (Scotland) Act.

The average annual standard rent at 28th November, 1971, was £87·13. My right hon. Friend is considering certain information already provided to him by the corporation about its current position in relation to the 1972 Act.

Is the Minister aware that Dundee Corporation has already agreed to the increases up to the maximum permitted under the Act? It has already agreed to apply the rebate scheme retrospectively from 1st October. Is he aware that the people in Dundee consider that they are being very badly treated compared with Edinburgh, which is in a similar situation?

I note what the hon. Gentleman says, but the situation in Dundee is complex and my right hon. Friend is considering it in the light of extra information given to him by the corporation.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many council tenants will pay the same or less in rent following the introduction of the Housing (Financial Provisions) (Scotland) Act.

Many council tenants should pay the same rent or less allowing for rebates, but I do not have comprehensive information about their numbers.

In other words are not those local authorities which are defying the Act denying help to many of their tenants? Can my hon. Friend give any examples to show how much less tenants should be paying now than previously?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I could give many examples, but perhaps I may instance a family with four children living in Glasgow. With a gross income of £25 a week, and occupying a house with a standard rent of £2, they would pay only 81p under the Act but they are paying £1·22 under the Glasgow scheme. If the same family lived in Airdrie it would have paid the full standard rent of £2 before implementation of the Act, because there is no rebate scheme there, but under the Act they will now pay a rebated rent of only 81p.

Is the Minister aware that the continued use of these highly selective statistics, which has marked the whole campaign on the legislation, has debased the language of government in Scotland? Is he aware that thousands of council tenants in Edinburgh, many of them pensioners, had their rents increased by £1 a week this week? Does he not think that rather than trying to provoke the non-implementing authorities into submission, thus causing all the bitterness and industrial confrontation that would ensue, it would be far better to use the freeze as an excuse for taking a new initiative to reach a compromise with those authorities?

These statistics are facts, and they are not selective facts of those benefiting from the reductions. The hon. Gentleman must face the fact that the Act has been designed to prevent hardship. It is time he realised that.

Will the hon. Gentleman tell us how many people will pay more rent? How many people in, say, the burgh or Ayr. in the hon. Gentleman's own constituency, who were receiving rent rebates will still pay a higher rent now that the burgh has changed over to the Government rent rebate system?

The right hon. Gentleman should update his figures, following the improvement in the needs allowances. I have not the precise figure to answer his question on how many people will pay more in rent, but no one will pay more if he cannot afford it. That is the whole point of the rent rebate scheme, which the right hon. Gentleman should realise.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action he proposes to take about the financing of the Opera House in Edinburgh, in view of the inquiry being conducted into this matter by the Royal Institute of British Architects.

The corporation recently sent me revised proposals for the project which involve a substantial increase in estimated cost and these I am now considering. According to Press reports, an investigation committee has been appointed by the Royal Incorporation of Architects in Scotland but I have no reason to believe that this action has any bearing on my consideration of the corporation's proposals.

What is the time-scale for this consideration by the Scottish Office?

I hope to be able to inform the corporation soon about its proposals.

Would it not be helpful to have a meeting between the officials of Edinburgh and of Sydney, Australia, in view of Sydney's considerable experience of the cost of building an opera house?

I agree that one can always benefit from the experience of others. I am also glad to say that there is good news in Inverness, where a concert hall will, we hope, be completely built within three years.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what reply he has sent to Alva Town Council regarding its letter on revenues from North Sea oil.

I would refer the hon. Gentleman to my reply to the hon. Member for the Western Isles (Mr. Donald Stewart) on 9th November, which indicated the terms of the replies sent to the local authorities including Alva Town Council which had made representations to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on this subject.—[Vol. 845, c. 246.]

Will the Secretary of State concede that he has given a figure for revenues available to the Government from North Sea finds? If he has a figure for revenues he must have a figure for total supply from the fields and, therefore, for the total cost of oil. In view of all the circumstances, would it not be better for the right hon. Gentleman to produce a White Paper so that the House can be made aware of all the details it needs to ascertain the extent of these finds and their effect on the Scottish and United Kingdom economies?

I think that the hon. Gentleman, who has followed these matters more closely than most, knows that we have made an estimate for 1980. We cannot go beyond that. There are large areas of the sea-bed, particularly round the West, which have not yet been explored. Given the information available now, and on the basis of the present level of prices and other factors, we have made a rough estimate of the total revenue in rents and royalties in 1980. That is what we have been able to do in an effort to supply the House and the general public with as much information as we can. I have great hopes that much more oil will be discovered in the years to come and that beyond 1980 there may well be considerably more than we now estimate.

May I support the request made by the hon. Member for East Stirlingshire (Mr. Douglas) for more information about Scottish oil? When will the first oil be landed in Scotland and when will any royalties become payable?

The first company to have made its plans expects the first oil to be pumped ashore in two years' time. That will be when the royalties from the oil as opposed to gas from the North Sea would start to be paid.

May I commend the hon. Member for Galloway (Mr. Brewis) for referring to these finds as Scottish oil and not by the general term of North Sea oil? Is the Secretary of State prepared to recommend to his Cabinet colleagues that the whole question of Scottish oil be placed under public ownership and control?

I noted that the Labour Party conference passed a resolution to the effect that the oil industry should be nationalised. That is a very gloomy outlook for those whose jobs depend upon the work on the oil rigs now and the oil servicing and all the shore-based installations and other work which is about to start.

The Secretary of State should not need to be reminded that the oil is already nationalised, thanks to the Continental Shelf Act passed by a Conservative Government; so he should not burke the question of nationalisation. Will the right hon. Gentleman answer the question about the desirability of having a White Paper on this whole subject? Further, would it not be a good idea for the whole subject to be referred to the Scottish Special Select Committee so that we can get down to all the facts available and make projections about the importance of the subject to Scotland?

I think that the hon. Member for Glasgow, Kelvingrove (Dr. Miller) was referring to nationalisation of the industry, not of the oil itself. The Labour Party conference appears to have endorsed the idea of nationalising the whole industry. That is a poor lookout for all those whose jobs depend on it in the future.

Will the Secretary of State now answer my question?

The question of Select Committees is not for me. We are, through the usual channels, making some proposals on the subject of a debate.

I said nothing about a debate. For a debate to be useful we should have the right information. Will the Secretary of State reconsider his answer about the publication of a White Paper on this whole subject and the Government's attitude to it? Then a debate would be realistic.

When this question has arisen before I have said that I am prepared to consider the publication of a White Paper, but it affects other Ministries. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry is the Minister most concerned. The right hon. Member has put this point before and I have answered it before.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will seek to set up a working party of industrialists, economists and planning specialists to consider how best Scotland could benefit from oil revenues.

I do not think that a special working party is necessary. North Sea oil developments are already bringing major benefits in terms of employment. As a result of Government decisions, Scotland is also getting an accelerated programme of investment in roads, harbours and houses in advance of oil from the Scottish part of the Continental Shelf starting to flow.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is now a widespread view in Scotland, among members of all parties and of none, that Scotland is not by any means certain to get the best possible yield out of the natural oil that has been discovered? In view of this fact, does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that some machinery independent of the Government, such as I have suggested in the Question, could properly be set up to consider what improvements could be made and the benefits that Scotland could get from the oil?

The setting up of new machinery and new bodies does not necessarily solve problems. We have none the less set up the Standing Conference. This has met a particular need of many of those concerned, and the new Scottish Industrial Development Office will have a particular task in helping the oil industry in giving advice and taking initiatives. This is another body that has been set up this year.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that one of the problems concerning oil revenues is that many of the resources seem likely to flow to American firms—fabricators and others—which have been encouraged to establish themselves in Scotland with the benefit of grants to do things they would have done in any case, and that those grants have been encouraged by bodies like the Scottish Council and the STUC which the hon. Gentleman wishes to encourage my right hon. Friend to consult further?

I believe the fact that some of these firms with their American expertise have decided to set up in Scotland rather than continue operating in the United States, or to set up on the other side of the North Sea, is of benefit to Scotland. I invite my hon. Friend and others to visit Nigg Bay, for example, Ardersier, because there will be about 2,000 new jobs there involving the sort of skills in which we in Scotland excel, such as steel construction and welding.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say what expert advice on the oil industry is available to him in the Scottish Office?

Within the Scottish Office we have a number of people, in the regional development division, who are concerned largely with dealing with oil companies. Within the Government we have our own petroleum experts; they are experts in the petroleum industry. One of these is due to move north and set up in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the progress of the Advisory Committee on Local Government Boundaries.

The committee has concluded its initial consideration of proposals for electoral areas. Draft schemes giving effect to its recommendations will be sent to local authorities shortly for publication. The committee will later re-examine the proposals in the light of any further observations received by my right hon. Friend's Department and then submit its final recommendations to him.

Is the Minister aware from previous correspondence that there is serious concern about the manner in which the advisory committee has conducted its business, that proposals for district council boundaries were asked for initially from the local authorities, that the local authorities submitted their proposals and that the advisory committee, rather surprisingly, favoured proposals sent in by the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Association Central Office? Does not the Under-Secretary agree that the advisory committee was ill-advised to favour those proposals when no political party was invited to submit its ideas?

I have explained matters to the hon. Gentleman in a letter. Copies of the Department's provisional proposals were sent to the main political party organisations in Scotland and observations were received from the different parties. Any observations, from whatever source, were submitted to the advisory committee. That committee is totally independent and the Secretary of State has not sought in any way to influence its conduct.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to receive a copy of the final report by international consultants commissioned by the Hunterston Development Company to examine the feasibility and viability of Hunterston for commercial and industrial development.

The consultants appointed by the Hunterston Development Company have submitted the first part of their final report. The full report will be completed shortly and will then be studied by the company and the Government.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that most people in Scotland regard the Hunterston Development Company as a Tory Party front organisation designed to get the Secretary of State off the hook concerning industrial development at Hunterston? Will he guarantee that we will get the final report before the Government make their final recommendations on the future plans for British steel? Will he guarantee to the House that he, as Secretary of State, will stick to his original promise and bear in mind that we want a British Steel Corporation integrated steel unit in Hunterston and nothing else?

As I explained before, my promise has been that Hunterston will be used for the best possible purposes for Scotland. That is what I have been saying for three and a half years. The problem is finding the best industries in combination for Scotland to go there. The hon. Gentleman's version of the Hunterston Development Company is, I must says, a very new and most extraordinary one.

In considering the future of Hunterston, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that unless we can continue to have a wide range of steel products manufactured in Scotland, we could be hit very hard by the new Common Market pricing system?

Apart from what the hon. Gentleman has said, referring no doubt to the basing point system, I recognise that it is one of the important factors that the steel-using industry in Scotland should have supplies and that there should, so far as possible, be a balanced steel industry as my hon. Friend has indicated.

The right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the Scottish Office has a financial concern here. There has already been an interim report. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we asked for its publication and we were advised—I think I have a letter from the Prime Minister to this effect—that it would be inappropriate to publish it at that time but an assurance was given that a final report would be published? Is that still the case?

We have assumed that the final report will be published. The Hunterston Development Company has views on this, and those views will have to be taken into account.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many accidents occurred on the M8 and A74 in 1970, 1971 and 1972, to the latest available date.

It would be misleading to compare the absolute number of accidents on these two roads as A74 is over twice as long as M8. In 1970, 1971 and 1972 up to 31st August, however, there were, respectively, 41, 59 and 32 injury accidents on M8, representing an accident rate of 0·41 accidents per million vehicle miles. The corresponding figures on A74 were 167, 158 and 160, representing an accident rate of 0·6 accidents per million vehicle miles.

May I recommend to the hon. Gentleman a recent report in the Scottish Daily Express, that the time is long overdue for A74 to be brought up to motorway standards? Is he aware that people driving 300 miles from the south, having been brainwashed by motorway conditions, suddenly find themselves on a dual carriageway? Is he further aware that sheep cross it and that if a vehicle breaks down there is no hard shoulder? If the Government are not prepared to bring this road up to motorway standards will they at least provide a hard shoulder and a crash barrier in order to try to cut down loss of life?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising this matter. So far as I am concerned any accident is to be deplored, and I would always take what steps I could to make accidents less likely to happen. It is not, however, the case that A74 is a particularly bad road for accidents. The average is certainly slightly higher than it is on M8, but it is almost exactly the same as the average for motorways generally, and it is rather below the average for dual carriageways generally.

On a point of order. I apologise for intervening at Question Time, Mr. Speaker, but may I draw to your attention to the chaotic situation at St. Stephen's entrance and the fact that constituents of mine have been prevented from coming in? Indeed, a policeman even attempted to prevent my coming in. I submit that it is intolerable that thousands of old people should be made to stand in these conditions in the cold, and I would be most grateful if you could take some action to enable my constituents to enter, and alleviate the appalling conditions at St. Stephen's entrance.

I will take note of what the hon. Member has said and I will see what can be done about it.

Will my hon. Friend publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT how he arrives at the accident rate per million vehicle miles? I am afraid I cannot understand it.

I apologise to my hon. Friend. It is rather a difficult thing to get across in an oral answer. The simple calculation is designed in order to be able to compare one road with another. It is the number of accidents which take place per million vehicle miles on a particular road. I think it is easy to understand. The object is to be able to compare roughly the situation on one road with another.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied with the present arrangement for investigating the cause of accidents on these major roads in Scotland? If he is not satisfied, will he consider setting up a traffic accident unit to make inquiries and discover the true causes of many accidents?

I am not aware of any difficulties arising from this. We have a very close liaison with the police on the subject, and if there are any particular cases which the hon. and learned Gentleman would like to bring to my attention I shall be glad to investigate them.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what communications he has received from Glasgow Corporation concerning the use of old Glasgow Central low-level line and tunnels; what reply he has sent; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware of the delay in giving effect to the Greater Glasgow Transport Study proposals and in particular the reopening of the central low-level railway line; when approval can be expected; and if he will make a statement.

Good progress is being made in implementing the recommendations concerning roads. Those concerning railways depend on detailed schemes first being put forward by British Rail. My right hon. Friend has approved a 75 per cent. grant for the resignalling and electrification of the Hamilton Circle line and has offered British Rail financial assistance towards the cost of the studies it still needs to undertake on the other recommended projects, including the Central low-level line.

I thank the Minister for that reply, but will he bear in mind that the Transport Act, 1968, gave the Government considerable power to influence developments in urban transport, including in particular the shifting of the balance of investment from private transport to public passenger transport? Will he look again at his powers under that Act since, although the Act was, I believe, a big breakthrough, we have perhaps learned enough now to update it, and force local authorities and passenger transport authorities to think more in terms of public passenger transport?

These are early days yet for the Glasgow PTA, and I very much hope that it will be giving thought to that aspect of transport planning. At present we are making substantial progress with implementation and we are in close contact with British Rail about it. If the hon. Gentleman would like me to investigate any particular points, I shall be glad to do so.

If the Minister is paying attention to the proposals arising from the Greater Glasgow Transport Study, why was priority given to other matters over one for which the study asked—namely, the reopening of the Central line? This line is an asset which is the envy of many of our cities and it is essential for the integration of transport within the city. What were the reasons for refusing priority to the reopening of that line in the four proposals which were put to the Minister?

As the hon. Gentleman may remember, Volume 4 of "Planning for Action" put as the first priority the electrification of the Hamilton Circle line. That was originally put to us as being the first priority, and we therefore approved it—I hope in good time. We are now considering the next phase.

Will my hon. Friend do his best to get the suburban lines hack in Edinburgh and to throw out the—

Order. The Question relates to Glasgow.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many working parties, commissions or other organisations are examining proposals for local government reform on which the Secretary of State has representatives; if he will list their remits and functions; and if he will make a statement.

Seven. With permission, I shall publish a list in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

A fairly lengthy list, I suppose. Has the right hon. Gentleman any original ideas—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Well, one never knows, and there is always hope. Has the right hon. Gentleman any original ideas as to the best and most effective way of dealing with the reports of the bodies which he has mentioned and for making available reports from other bodies, professional and the like, on which he has no representation, and for ensuring that permanent committee room facilities will be available, complete with visual aids, for those of us who will be on the Committee, so that we may make a good job of the Bill?

I shall do all I can to assist the hon. Gentleman and other hon. Members. However, as he will see from the list which will be published, the working parties cover such matters as the effects of local government reform on regulations for the police service, the lay

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further discussions have taken place with a view to improving maternity facilities at Falkirk Royal Infirmary.

There have been discussions between officers of my right hon. Friend's Department, the Western Regional Hospital Board and the board of management about maternity facilities at Falkirk Royal Infirmary. The board of management has been asked to consider the use of maternity facilities at Stirling Royal Infirmary to ease the pressure on those at Falkirk. The long-term requirements for maternity facilities in the Cumbernauld-Falkirk area are being examined by the regional board to enable planning of the new development in band IV of the major hospital building programme to proceed as quickly as possible.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that the suggestion that maternity facilities at Stirling Royal Infirmary should be used to relieve the position at Falkirk Royal Infirmary may well mean that mothers-to-be have about 18 miles

I could not accept that there are bad facilities at Falkirk, although I acknowledge that there is pressure for accommodation. I hope that any of the hon. Gentleman's constituents who may have to go to Stirling will appreciate that this is a temporary measure and that we are pressing on as fast as we can with the planning of new developments in that area.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that some of the women who have their babies in Stirling Maternity Hospital are discharged within three days, which presupposes that there is not a great deal of latitude in that hospital for taking people from Falkirk?

I note the point which the hon. Gentleman makes, which is part of the subject matter of discussion with the board of management. I am interested in what the hon. Gentleman says about discharge in three days. My information is that the average period is much nearer eight days.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will take account of the adverse financial situation confronting football clubs when introducing legislation to license sports grounds; and if he will make a statement.

Lord Wheatley referred to this matter in his report, and we shall bear it in mind in preparing future legislation.

Will the hon. Gentleman realise that licensing may well mean the rebuilding of stands and terracing, of exits and entrances, and so forth, at prodigious cost, which would not only put First Division clubs in jeopardy but probably put some Second Division clubs out of the game altogether? Will he therefore try to have the cost spread over a period of time to ensure that a team like Albion Rovers, with attendances of less than 1,000 a game, will not be asked to provide the same facilities as Glasgow clubs which accommodate upwards of 70,000 at a game?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising this matter. We have been in correspondence about it, and I am glad to see that he is displaying his club colours on the Floor of the House. The Government have not yet come to a final conclusion on their proposals following Lord Wheatley's recommendation, but I assure the hon. Gentleman that the points he has made have been raised with us also by the representatives of the Football Association and Football League with which we have been in touch, and we shall certainly bear them in mind. However, we must bear in mind also the vital need to safeguard the public who attend these matches.

If and when my hon. Friend introduces legislation to license football grounds, will he make certain that a provision is included to compel clubs to make adequate provision for supporters in wheelchairs?

I shall draw that to the attention of those concerned.

When legislating on this matter, will the Minister bear in mind that the financial situation of the clubs, which is already precarious, will be made worse by the introduction of VAT? If he searches his postbag this morning, he will find there—admittedly, not from a Scottish club—relevant information on the point from Aston Villa.

The right hon. Gentleman should know that value added tax matters are for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. We must have concern for the safety of the public as well.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many old and retired people died of malnutrition in Scotland in the year 1971; and if he will state the circumstances in each case.

Deaths of old and retired persons from malnutrition in Scotland in 1971 numbered 14. The detailed circumstances in each case are not easily available.

That is a substantial fall from the numbers who died in 1970 due to malnutrition. However, the incidence of malnutrition is caused by a variety of reasons, one of which is an insufficient income. Does the Minister agree that a substantial increase in the basic pension would give old people confidence in their last remaining years to enjoy them with vigour and determination? Will he ask his right hon. and hon. Friends to come up now to Committee Room 13 where a deputation of Scottish old-age pensioners is meeting and discussing problems? Please ask the Secretary of State to come—Room 13 at 3.30.

I note what the hon. Member said and I hope that he and other hon. Members will keep these sad cases in perspective. The 14 deaths from malnutrition must be compared with the 44,379 from normal causes among old people. I note what he says about an increased income and that is exactly what the Government are seeking to achieve for the old people.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many cases have been investigated by the General Teaching Council's Disciplinary Committee; and how many teachers have, as a result, been removed from the register.

I am informed by the council that the figures are seven and two, respectively.

Do not the figures show that the committee is by no means the Star Chamber it was forecast to be? Will the Minister, in consultation with the teachers' organisations, consider whether its remit can be extended, for example to cover cases of professional incompetence?

I take my hon. Friend's first point. It is of interest that the figures I gave are exactly comparable to those of the four previous years when the Secretary of State was responsible for these matters. My hon. Friend will know that the Act covering this matter does not allow the GTC to go beyond infamous professional conduct or criminal conviction.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has had with regard to educational administration under the proposed reformed system of local government.

The broad outline of the proposals for local government reform, which included the proposal that education should be a regional responsibility, were discussed with the local authority associations; the implications for the education service have been discussed at a conference of the Association of Directors of Education and my right lion. Friend's Department; and my officials have met representatives of the Churches, at their request, to hear their views on the desirability of continued involvement of the Churches in administration of education.

Is the Minister aware that in spite of the publication of the Bill there is still uncertainty about exactly how education will be administered? The teachers' organisations, among others, complain of lack of consultation. It is a particularly acute problem in the Strathclyde region, which does not make sense as an educational authority.

I know the hon. Member's views on the West Region and I am sure he will develop them at a later stage. Of course we have had informal contacts with all people interested in education, and other than on the issue of teacher representation on regional councils I believe there to be very little between us on the Bill, which is generally welcomed. In any event there has been no request from the teachers' associations to consult us.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will restrict the importation of eggs into Scotland from Northern Ireland for the duration of the Northern Ireland egg subsidy scheme to the quantities which were despatched from Northern Ireland in the year before commencement of the scheme.

No, Sir.

That is not a satisfactory reply. Does my hon. Friend agree that at a time when egg producers in Scotland have suffered the consequences of over-production and are going out of production as a result, it is intolerable that eggs subsidised by the British taxpayer should be brought in free of any apparent control from Northern Ireland? Will he bear in mind that the export of eggs from Scotland to Northern Ireland is already subject to control? Why should not the control work both ways?

I appreciate my hon. Friend's strength of feeling. He and I have been in correspondence about the subject and I have also met a deputation from the Poultry Commission of the Scottish National Farmers' Union. My hon. Friend must realise that this is a limited subsidy for a limited period and he must look at it against the background of the effort the Government are making through financial measures to stabilise and assist employment in Northern Ireland in the extremely difficult situation which exists there.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the promised review of the operation and charges of Erskine Bridge will take place.

Preliminary traffic studies are in progress, but I cannot yet say when the review will be completed.

Is the Minister aware that hon. Members will be very pleased to see that the bridge has been given the British Steel Corporation Award? As the judge said, it is one of the finest examples of courageous British engineering and I should add that it was built without a fatality. Now that the proposals for reorganisation of local government have been published and the north and south banks will be brought under one body, will the Secretary of State ensure, when the review takes place, that tolls are abolished and that proper integration for industry and manpower on both sides of the river can take place?

I associate myself with what the hon. Member says about the award. It is a very satisfactory outcome from those who were involved in the construction of the bridge. Tolls are one of the things which must be studied in considering the effect of the traffic trends.

Will my hon. Friend look with favour at any proposals for amending legislation to allow those who travel regularly across the bridge to have season tickets, a facility they are not permitted under present legislation?

That is another point which can be taken into account.

The suggestion by the hon. Member for Fife, East (Sir J. Gilmour) can be implemented now. There is a season ticket experiment on other bridges and people who live in Erskine have to cross the bridge as much as four times a day, which means an extra £3 a week. Will the Minister speed up the review in order to get rid of the tolls?

We want to conduct the review against the full figures of traffic flow and so forth and it cannot be conducted in any other fashion. The hon. Member's other suggestion can certainly be taken into account.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he plans to pay an official visit to the burgh of Millport.

I have no plans at present to do so.

If the right hon. Gentleman visits Millport the people there will tell him that the objections they had on amenity grounds when Hunterston was first developed have proved not to have been justified. They recognise that developments at Hunterston are vital for towns whose economies are based upon holidaymakers because those towns are dependent upon the well-being of industrial workers in Scotland. If and when the right hon. Gentleman comes to Millport the people there will be as anxious as those in any other part of Scotland to see not only general port facilities and steel developments at Hunterston but also, what is obvious, further oil refinery development in that part of the world.

In that case they will have welcomed the planning decision which I announced nearly two years ago after the inquiry which kept nearly all the options open for industrial development at Hunterston. I have two individual applications before me now and therefore I cannot go into details.