asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications how many postmen have been retired on medical grounds in the last two years; and what was the average age of those retired.

The Post Office tells me that in the two years ended on 31st March, 1972, 1,231 postmen were retired on medical grounds. The average age was 48·4 years.

Is the Minister aware that I am absolutely staggered by these figures? Does he agree that this is a serious problem? Will he further agree to set up a medical inquiry to investigate the causes of postmen retiring at such an early age? Surely this situation requires further investigation?

I do not minimise the seriousness of this matter, but it does represent 0·7 per cent. of the total postmen staff. There are special arrangements in the Post Office, which has its own occupational health service. It is conducting an investigation into some of these matters in conjunction with Guy's Hospital.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what medical condition was the cause of the largest number of medical retirements among postmen in the last two years.

The Post Office tells me that diseases of the bones and back and muscular troubles were the major causes of retirement.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that evidence is now emerging to the effect that heart conditions and bronchitis as a result of work in the new mechanised sorting office are a further major element in the discharge of postmen at an early age? If this proves to be the case in the study now being conducted by Guy's Hospital, will the Minister ensure that interim measures are taken to do something about those two diseases?

The study, in conjunction with experts from Guy's Hospital, is being conducted into the widespread incidence of low back pain among postal workers. However, the hon. Gentleman is right in saying that coronary disease and angina are involved. Mental, psycho-neurotic and personality disorders and bronchitis are other major causes.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate the concern that is felt when 10 per cent. of the labour force is affected in this way? Will he ask the Post Office how many of these men, as well as being affected by their industrial work and activity, have served their country in peace and in war?

I am sure that a substantial proportion of them will fall into that last category. These are people to whom traditions of service seem to come very naturally. No one can be complacent about the situation and, as I hope is clear from my replies, the whole matter is now being examined very seriously.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what salary he intends to offer to the new Chairman of the British Broadcasting Corporation when he or she is appointed.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he expects to announce the appointment of a new Chairman of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he expects to announce the name of the new Chairman of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will now announce the name of the new Chairman of the British Broadcasting Corporation and give an assurance that in accordance with the Government's policy on the incomes freeze the salary paid will not be more than the present incumbent's £6,000 per annum.

The new chairman will be announced as soon as the choice has been made. I confirm that the standstill on incomes will apply in this case.

Will the Minister give us some idea about the degree of urgency which he attaches to this problem? Is he aware that it is getting extremely near to the point where Lord Hill will be saying "Enough is enough"? Will he give an assurance that he is seriously considering the possibility of making this job a full-time rather than part-time appointment? Is there any reason why it should not be publicly advertised, rather than be subject to the patronage of the right hon. Gentleman or, worse still, of the Prime Minister?

We are not hanging about on this. The terms of the new appointment, when it is made, will be made clear.

Is this not a matter of great urgency, since Lord Hill is retiring on 31st December and hon. Members have been asking questions about the appointment of a successor for the past eight months? Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the importance of having a new mould of chairman—one who will see his role as being, in particular, to look after the public interest?

I agree that there is not a great deal of time left before the present chairman's retirement comes into effect. The nature of the job to be carried out by the new chairman will be evident at the time the appointment is announced.

I am pleased to hear that the salary is to be kept at the frozen level. Why has it taken so long to fill this appointment? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I could make 101 wonderful nominations, including that of my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton)? Why go on like this when there are plenty of people around?

I am sorry that I did not have the hon. Gentleman's helpful suggestion a little earlier.

Is it not sometimes customary for a vice-chairman to take over the responsibilities of a retiring chairman, particularly if the vice-chairman is a most competent and agreeable person?

As a general observation I am sure that that is quite right.

Is it not the case that in the event that there is some further delay over the appointment of a new chairman there is no cause for concern or alarm? Does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that, as has been suggested, the vice-chairman could take over temporarily? Might this not give the director-general the chance of asserting his authority instead of being overpowered by an active chairman?

I do not think that this affects the position of the Director-General at all. This question is concerned with the new chairman.

Is the Minister aware that my hon. Friends and I feel that it is not good enough to have delayed this appointment for so long? Is he aware that we believe it is neither fair to the person who will be appointed nor to the BBC, since the new chairman will have have only a short time to work with the old chairman, until the end of December? Is the hon. Gentleman further aware that we believe he ought to have made the appointment some time ago, and that we are sure that there are plenty of competent people able to do the job?

I have no doubt about the last point. On the whole I agree about the importance of this question.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will now make representations to the Russian authorities concerning the disruption of telephone communications between subscribers in the United Kingdom and Jewish scholars and scientists in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

I understand the hon. and learned Gentleman's anxiety but I cannot add to my answers to his similar Questions on 10th May, 7th June and 9th August.—[Vol. 836, c. 1292; Vol. 838, c. 440; Vol. 842, c. 1700.]

I appreciate that the Minister has great difficulties in this matter, but is he aware that there is a continual process of harassment and cutting-off of subscribers in the Soviet Union, so that people in this country cannot get through to them and our patient and excellent operators on the Continental exchange are put to entirely unnecessary difficulty and aggravation? Therefore, if evidence is provided to the right hon. Gentleman, will he consider how this matter might be approached in a different way?

In answer to previous Questions from the hon. and learned Gentleman I have encouraged him to produce as much detailed evidence as he can for the purposes of the Post Office. I should be grateful if he would proceed in that way.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether, having regard to the fact that the ownership of commercial television and radio and local and national newspapers is falling into a few hands and to the recommendations of the Prices and Incomes Board in this respect, he will give an assurance that any forthcoming survey of the future of broadcasting will have terms of reference covering the whole field of communications.

I prefer not to anticipate the terms of reference of any such survey.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the Prices and Incomes Board's Report, Cmnd. 3435 of 1967, made a specific recommendation that it was high time that the communications of this country were considered as a whole? In making that recommendation it was thinking not only of radio and television but of the national Press. Would it not be appropriate that the communications media should, for the first time, be considered as a whole in their relationship to each other, particularly as those relationships are now getting very close?

That is an extremely interesting suggestion, but the hon. Gentleman will recognise that it would take us very much wider than had been contemplated hitherto in the context of a survey.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will now announce his decision concerning the appointment of a committee of inquiry into the future of broadcasting after 1976.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what representations he has now received to implement the recommendation in the Report of the Select Committee on Nationalised Industries, which investigated the Independent Broadcasting Authority, that there should be an urgent inquiry into the future of broadcasting.

I have nothing to add to the reply I gave on 8th November to the hon. Member for Derby, North (Mr. Whitehead) and others.—[Vol. 845, c. 977–8.]

Is the Minister aware that that is an amazingly unsatisfactory answer? Will he give the House one reason for this continuing delay, over and above his own inability to make up his mind and what appears to be the inadequacy of his staff to brief him on the strength of public feeling on this issue?

As the hon. Gentleman will know, the Select Committee has recently issued its report. This is an extremely important report, which merits careful study. Although I am very much alive to the wishes of the House that a considered reply should not be unnecessarily delayed, I must take account of the important recommendations in that report.

My right hon. Friend will be considering the question of the personnel of any committee of inquiry, but he will realise that the question of its terms of reference is equally if not more important. I am sure that he has this very much in mind.

Yes. My hon. Friend will recollect that earlier this afternoon there was a Question on the terms of reference.

Does the Minister recollect that at last Post Office Question Time I asked him specifically, in relation to the inquiry, whether the charter for the BBC and the renewal of contracts for the companies operating under the IBA would come up for renewal in 1976 and would not be delayed. The Minister was not able to answer me then. Perhaps he will answer me today.

They come to an end in the normal course of events in 1976, and clearly something will have to be done by that time.

Can the Minister indicate whether we are to get an answer on this tremendously important matter before Christmas?

I agree that this matter is extremely important, and I well understand the interests of all hon. Members and their wish to have specific and clear-cut answers to these questions. I will do my best to ensure that this is done as quickly as possible.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office not to connect or reconnect telephones to properties occupied by illegal squatters.

No, Sir. A matter of this kind must be left to the Post Office.

When the Post Office is asked to connect or reconnect a telephone, what precautions does it take to ensure that the person making the request is the legal owner-occupier or tenant of the premises?

The Post Office does not normally inquire into the circumstances of a person applying for a telephone: I do not think it would be right that it should do so. But if it were made clear to it that the person occupying the property was occupying it illegally, it would make a point of consulting the legal owner about the provision of a telephone.

Surely the Post Office inquires into the creditworthiness of some potential subscribers, even if it does not inquire into the legality of their occupation of the premises. Will my right hon. Friend comment on that?

The Post Office places considerable emphasis on the need to protect its revenues.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what changes in the waiting times for new telephone installations there have been over the past three years.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what is the latest figure for the average waiting time for the installation of telephones.

The Post Office tells me that the 20 per cent. of applicants who are placed on the waiting list for telephones have to wait, on average, just over five months. This time has not changed significantly over the last three years.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that answer. Is he aware that the report of the Post Office National Users' Council said that supply and demand were clearly out of step over the matter of telephones? As this is at a time when the telecommunications services are due to get £4,000 million of extra capital over the next five years, may I ask how long it will take to cut the average waiting time by half?

The reason for delay is not so much that there is a shortage of telephones as that there have been delays in the provision of exchange equipment and of buildings to house it. This is being energetically tackled by the Post Office, by industry, and by my Department. I hope that we shall be seeing increasing improvements in the coming months.

Will the Minister confirm or deny that in some areas there is a reprehensible practice in respect of payment for the installation of a telephone, in that some people are asked to make the payment in advance—sometimes as much as three or several months in advance—and others have the telephone installed before a bill is sent to them? This practice bears most heavily on working people, who may need a telephone just as much as middle-class people.

That is a matter for the corporation.

What are the figures in regard to the installation of telephones in Northern Ireland? What priority is the Post Office giving to Northern Ireland for the many telephone subscribers who have been cut off because of terrorist activity? Is the priority to get them back on to the telephone system or to install new telephones?

I cannot answer the hon. Gentleman's question without notice, but I will certain inquire into the position as he has brought it to my attention.

Is not a waiting period of even five months far too long? Something needs to be done quickly to reduce that period? Is the Minister aware that in the Dearne Valley constituency there is a long waiting list, especially in the Mexborough district, where at present no hope is held out that applicants can have telephones in two or three months?

Yes; I am aware that some areas are worse than others. Special steps are being taken by the Post Office, in direct consultation with industry—and by myself and my Department, in consultation with industry and the Post Office—to identify the black areas and speed up the delivery of equipment.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will seek to meet representatives of the National Federation of Old Age Pensioners Associations as part of his examination of the question of concessionary television licences.

The views of the federation on the question of concessionary television licences for retirement pensioners are already well known to me.

In view of the injustices which still exist in our society, is the Minister aware of the desirability of granting concessionary television licences to pensioners in receipt of supplementary benefits?

I understand the hon. Gentleman's point. As he knows, I have said on a previous occasion that I am looking into the whole of this question.

Will my right hon. Friend concede that he and his predecessor have both given us the somewhat trite reply that the matter is being considered? Has it not been considered for the last 10 years and been found wanting with a large majority of hon. Members? Cannot he expedite the processes and listen once again to the old-age pensioners' recognised organisations?

I cannot speak about what has happened in the last 10 years in this connection. I have been in my present position only since April this year, and I am bringing a fresh mind to inquire into the problem.

At the beginning of this Session I presented a petition signed by 22,000 old-age pensioners in favour of concessionary rates. Has the Minister taken any notice of it?

I am sure that if any old-age pensioner—or any other person, for that matter—were asked if he was in favour of having something for nothing, the answer would be "Yes".

Has the Minister's attention been drawn to the fact that one of his hon. Friends intended to present a Private Member's Bill which would deal with this subject? It is reported in the newspapers this morning that the Government have decided to block the Bill and to refuse it a Second Reading. The Bill would have presented a useful opportunity to air an important problem which we want to discuss in the House. The Minister is doing all of us less than justice by not allowing us the opportunity.

I have not seen notice of any Private Member's Bill to this effect.

On a point of order. In view of the Minister's very unsatisfactory answers, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what further consideration he has given to the matter of concessionary television licences for pensioners; and whether he will make a statement.

As I told the hon. Member on 8th November, I am looking again at the whole question of television licence concessions for retirement pensioners.—[Vol. 845, c. 983–6.]

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the early day Motion on the Order Paper which stands in the name of my right hon. Friend the Member for Deptford (Mr. John Silkin) and which has been signed by at least 100 of my hon. Friends? Will he give the House the total cost of giving all old-age pensioners a free television licence, and undertake to bring before the House as soon as possible the conclusions of his review?

I am aware of the existence of the Motion to which the hon. Gentleman refers and of the extent of support which it has received. The answer to the second part of the supplementary question is, about £25 million a year. In regard to the third part of the question, I shall do so.

Does not my right hon. Friend think that the proposal is a little odd, since it provides for concessions to be given to people over the age of 60 or 65 but does not include concessions for the blind and other disabled people?

This concession is designed to meet the needs of elderly people who live in certain types of old people's homes which would qualify as registered homes for this purpose. I know that this matter has given rise to considerable anomalies, and it is the existence of those anomalies which gives rise to this Question and to my inquiries.

Is the Minister aware that throughout the country young people in voluntary groups obtain old television sets, put them in working order, and give them to old-age pensioners and others, including the disabled? Is he further aware that in many cases proposed recipients are unable to take sets because they cannot afford licences with which to operate them? Would it not be a great contribution by the Government if they could assist these young voluntary groups by providing free licences for those whom these voluntary groups seek to help?

I think that a matter of this kind is more properly a subject for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services. There are any number of questions as to the proper order of priority in the provision of welfare benefits and assistance of this kind.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what is the estimated annual cost of the concession he announced on 19th July, 1972, whereby the families of people living in old people's homes could benefit from reduced television licence fees; and approximately how many families will so benefit.

No estimate of the cost is possible, but the number of people affected is unlikely to be large.

Is it not a fact that the cost is likely to run into only a few thousand pounds? Will my right hon. Friend's next concession be a little more generous—for example, charging lower licence fees to pensioners or to those who are in receipt of supplementary benefits?

Generosity does not enter into the matter. This was a response to a particular case raised by the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton). I did my best to meet the case because I recognised that there was justification for taking some action. I hope that what I have done will be helpful even if only to a small number of people.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what progress has been made in providing vandal-proof telephone kiosks; and if he will make a statement.

Out of a total of 76,000 kiosks, 52,000 have been fitted with strengthened equipment and nearly 3,700 are of the new, improved design.

But is the Minister aware that whole areas, especially in the west of Scotland, have been left bereft of the means of communication with the emergency services? How many of the vandal-proof kiosks have been provided in my part of Scotland?

I am sorry that I cannot answer the detailed question which the hon. Gentleman asks about Scotland. However, the kiosks which are being introduced are what I might describe as "vandal-resistant" rather than vandal-proof. The programme shows that there has been a welcome diminution in the number of incidents of destruction of these important pieces of property.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that however desirable it may be to make the kiosks both vandal-resistant and vandal-proof it is absurd to produce the type of kiosk now being installed at main British Railways termini, in which it is almost impossible to hear what is being said?

I am sure that the Post Office will note what my hon. Friend has said.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what percentage of first class post is now being delivered the following day.

The latest Post Office figures show that about 92 per cent. of first class letters are delivered on the next working day after posting.

In view of all the problems facing the Post Office, particularly the continued closure of railway lines, is not that a remarkable figure, and does it not provide the answer to some of the neurotics on the benches opposite, who never have a good word to say about the Post Office? Will the Minister answer one question for the benefit of his hon. Friends? Does he know of any postal system in the world which is cheaper or more effective than the British system?

I do not think that any of us on this side of the House feels particularly neurotic. However, no one in the Post Office is complacent even about the figure that I have given.

Can my right hon. Friend say why such a large proportion of the remaining 8 per cent. arrive at my home or other premises in North-East Lancashire?

It may have something to do with the time at which the letters were posted.

I do not wish to criticise the Post Office, but will the Minister bear in mind that a problem is arising particularly in rural areas where there has been a reorganisation of the local post offices? May I quote the Forest of Dean as an example? Local letters are sent to Gloucester before they are sent back to the Forest of Dean. Consequently, a high percentage of first class mail is not being delivered the day after it is posted.

In May 1972 the Chairman of the Post Office announced a special action programme to make improvements in the reliability of all letter mail delivery. It included a special analysis of problem areas and reported difficulties. I am sure that the chairman will note what the hon. Gentleman has said.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will take steps to improve the operation of the Post Office National Users' Council.

The Select Committee on Nationalised Industries reported favourably last year on the way the council now works, and I see no reason at present to make any changes.

Although I believe that the Post Office generally gives a good service to the public, there are bound to be some genuine complaints. Is there not a need to strengthen the users' council by making it more independent, and making it seem to be more independent, and a need also to strengthen the machinery at local level? The right hon. Gentleman must have misread the report of the Select Committee on Nationalised Industries not to reach that conclusion. Will he give an assurance that the Select Committee's recommendations will be implemented soon?

The Select Committee only recently examined the whole question of users' councils and in its report it specifically singled out the Post Office Users' National Council for commendation and suggested that it should serve as the model for any new councils that come into being.

My right hon. Friend will be aware of the regrettable decision of the Post Office to close the Downs sub-post office in Dunstable, in my constituency. Is he satisfied that those who have an interest in and are dependent on sub-post offices have an adequate opportunity through the users' council to make their representations and views known to the Post Office hierarchy in London?

My hon. Friend can make direct representations to the users' council on this very point.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he is now in a position to announce the date when the ultra high frequency transmitter at Selkirk will come into operation.

It has been transmitting the Independent Broadcasting Authority's service since 1st March, 1972. UHF transmissions of BBC1 and BBC2 are expected to start next spring.

The transmitter the Minister referred to as already transmitting is the ITV one, not the still awaited one for BBC. Can he give an accurate date, because this transmitter was originally schedule for March 1972? We are now well past that date. I know that it was put back a year, but can the Minister give a specific date when it will come into operation, so that we can get BBC2 transmissions and colour television on BBC?

My right hon. Friend the former Minister of Posts and Telecommunications told the hon. Gentleman in October 1971 that BBC1 and BBC2 services were planned to begin during 1973. I have made this more specific today by saying that it will be in the spring. I cannot get closer than that at present.

Why has the undertaking given by my right hon. Friend's predecessor that the North-East coast should have services available before the end of this year been put into limbo when the new arrangements are going through for Carlisle and Scotland? Will my right hon. Friend please ensure that the North-East coast is not treated in this way? We are very angry. We do not want everything to go to Scotland to the exclusion of the North-East coast.

I am aware of my hon. Friend's concern. I will be answering the Question that she has on the Order Paper.

It is a pledge.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will list the areas in Scotland that are known to be bad television reception areas; and what proposals have been made to remedy the position.

This information is already provided in the publications of the two broadcasting authorities, both of which will send coverage maps to the hon. Gentleman. The 625-line services are still being developed.

But the right hon. Gentleman must be aware of the great disquiet, and, indeed, sometimes anger, in areas which suffer from bad television reception. Does he not appreciate that television reception at Penicuik, which is in my constituency and which borders on Edinburgh is absolutely deplorable? What assurance can he give to my constituents in this technological age that an improvement will be brought about with the utmost expedition?

I am aware that there is not universal coverage at present and that those who do not get the sort of reception they want are naturally disturbed. But this programme will take time to develop. The uhf coverage in Scotland will require a further 16 main stations compared with 38 in England. This means one station for every 340,000 people in Scotland and one for every 1·7 million people in England, or proportionately five times as many.

Will my right hon. Friend see that in deciding which areas should have improved reception the powers that be will take account not only of population but the number of people who come into Scotland, such as tourists, and who often multiply the population? Will he agree that bad television reception can have a very bad influence on the tourist trade?

Yes; I take note of my hon. Friend's point about visitors for holiday and other purposes. The fact remains, however, that it will always be extremely difficult to get effective coverage in areas with widely dispersed populations.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if, in view of the representations made to him concerning the loss of medium-wave regional broadcasts to the West Country, he will take steps to provide the necessary wavelength facilities at least until 1975.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will make a statement relating to the loss of medium-wave regional broadcasts to listeners in the West Country and the need for more wavelength facilities.

Following the BBC's proposals in "Broadcasting in the Seventies" and our decisions in "An Alternative Service of Radio Broadcasting" the medium frequencies have been reallocated.

My right hon. Friend has given an unsatisfactory answer. Does he not agree that, bearing in mind the fact that over 70 per cent. of listeners in Devon and Cornwall and the South West do not possess vhf sets, and the Government, in adopting "Broadcasting in the Seventies" and abandoning the BBC medium wave local broadcasting so early in the decade, have achieved a crisis in regional broadcasting? Will he investigate the matter and ask the BBC to use one or two hours daily on Scottish or Northern Ireland regional wavelengths to provide these valuable local broadcasts on medium wave to the West country region?

I am aware of the strength of feeling on this subject in the West Country and I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his suggestion, which I shall examine. However, I am sure that he will understand that once it was decided to create a new pattern of local stations, as well as to improve the opportunities for external broadcasting from this country and to give medium wave back-up for BBC as well as commercial radio stations, there was bound to be a considerable change from the pattern that existed previously.

Is my right hon. Friend not aware that the South West is a very low-income area, with an above average number of people living on retirement and fixed incomes? Is he not even more aware of the fact that this decision has caused real disappointment throughout the region, and is regarded as a further reduction of public services in our area? Surely the Government have an obligation to try to influence the BBC on this topic.

It is not a case of trying to influence the BBC; it is a case of having to reallocate the medium frequency. We have comparatively limited frequency availability in this country, and once we start to make changes I am afraid that it is extremely difficult to keep to the pattern to which people have become used. I am very much aware of my hon. Friend's point about the circumstances of people who are losing the particular benefits of regional broadcasting from the BBC, but I am afraid that this is the direction in which radio broadcasting is clearly moving.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these medium wavelengths have been removed from people in the rural areas to confer the inestimable advantage of commercial radio on the conurbations, some of which eminently deserve it. If he does not accept that, will he warn my constituents when they will be able to hear commercial radio?

It is caused by the fact that first of all there was a very wide ranging regional opt-out, which went all the way from Bexhill to Bodmin—not an identifiable area. Secondly, there was the need to give medium wave frequency back-up both for BBC local radio and commercial local radio stations; and, thirdly, there was the need to improve our external broadcasting. In due course the commercial radio stations will increasingly come forward, and Plymouth is one area that is identified for this operation.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the transference of regional programmes to vhf will mean that an enormous number of people in my region will have to buy a new radio if they want to receive the local programmes? Does he appreciate that this will bear particularly hard on old-age pensioners and low-paid workers? Is this not all being carried out for the simple expedient of giving commercial radio a channel?

No, Sir. The future of local radio clearly lies with vhf. We must also face the fact that in 1974 the whole question of frequency allocation to this country comes up for renegotiation at international level. This is a factor which we must contemplate from this point of time.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office to ensure that the names of parishes and townships are included in the postal addresses which they recommend.

No, Sir. The form of postal addresses is a matter for the Post Office.

That is disappointing. Does not the right hon. Gentleman feel that local pride and regard for one's community should be encouraged? If he does, will he ask the Post Office to approve the inclusion in the postal address of the name of the village or parish, with particular reference to the village of Orgreave, which is near to, but not part of Sheffield?

There need be no difficulty about that. There is some misunderstanding, I think, in view of the guidance notes which have gone out from the Post Office. If people wish to include the name of their village or parish in the address there is no reason why they should not. The Post Office has made clear the minimum requirement for an efficient postal service. If people wish to put the name "Orgreave" in the address, they may do so provided that they also put "Woodhouse Mill, Sheffield".

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunica- tions how many persons within the last 12 months in Wales have given notice to the authorities of their intention not to pay television licence fees on the grounds of non-reception or limited or impaired television reception in their areas.

One such letter has been received in my Department.

Despite that, will the right hon. Gentleman appreciates that there are many people in Wales, of all shades of political opinion and not normally disposed to law-breaking, who believe that a serious injustice has been suffered in many communities embracing thousands of people who are unable to have any television reception at all? These people, who have been at the end of the queue for vhf transmissions over the years, will now find themselves with the lowest priority of all for uhf when it eventually comes. Will the right hon. Gentleman take swift and decisive action?

I am aware of people's feelings on this subject, as expressed by the hon. Gentleman. But the licence fee is not directly connected with the quality of reception; it is a payment for permission to use television.

Will the Minister take steps to inform those in charge in BBC Wales that it would be advisable that people who advocate non-payment of the television licence fee should not appear as directors, producers or interviewers on BBC Wales programmes?

That is a matter for those concerned to handle.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he expects the whole of England to be covered by the subscriber trunk dialling system.

The Post Office tells me that it hopes to complete the STD programme by about the end of 1974.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that answer, but I wonder whether he is aware that Dover, Deal and Sandwich are still not covered by STD, that the new Dover exchange pas been completed but is still not in operation, and that this is intensely frustrating for those who have to telephone to and from that area, as well as for those who work in the present antiquated exchange at Dover?

I am aware of the special difficulties in the Dover exchange. I am hopeful that the work on it will be completed within a few months from now.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what percentage of the people of Carmarthenshire can receive the British Broadcasting Corporation Wales channel.

Sixty-six per cent.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is great disquiet in my constituency because about 40 per cent. of the people do not receive BBC Wales programmes? Will he, before considering a fourth channel as a separate Welsh channel, take steps to ensure that the facilities already available elsewhere are made available to all my constituents?

I shall consider the points which the hon. Gentleman makes. Some people may well find improvements in reception if they make certain that they are using the right sort of outside aerial. I stress the importance of that, and any encouragement which the hon. Gentleman can give in making certain that people look to their aerial installation would be useful.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office to reduce the rental charged for hospital trolley telephone service points, bearing in mind that such costs are often met by outside charitable concerns.

No, Sir. This particular charge is a management matter for the Post Office.

In the Derby area we have a league of hospital friends which is charged £13·80 per quarter per point for this service, so that if four wards were serviced with one point in each the cost would be about £54 per quarter, or £220 per year. Will the right hon. Gentleman represent to the Post Office that it should lay on the facility not as a profiteering service but as a social and welfare service?

There is no question of profiteering. The Post Office has to cover its costs. The hon. Gentleman will recognise that a coin-box telephone service is usually available in hospitals, and the additional service to which he refers is not very frequently used during the course of a day. However, I shall certainly take note of what he has said.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will request Sir Robert Cockburn's Committee on the future of television to consider specifically the needs of Wales in view of the fact that two languages are spoken there.

No, Sir. The Television Advisory Committee is concerned with the technical questions only and would not be expected to deal with the wider considerations which such a study would prompt.

But is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that for over 40 years broadcasting in Wales has been given special consideration, turning upon the distinctive position of Wales as a country and as a nation? Will he give an undertaking that when the new charters are considered in 1976, or earlier, and especially in the context of the allocation of a fourth television channel, the particular needs of Wales will be given fair and proper priority?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that the particular needs of Wales or of any other part of the United Kingdom will not be overlooked.

Has the committee considered a measure of protection from broadcasts from Wales for other parts of the country which have no wish to receive them? Many people in my constituency and neighbouring areas in the West Country would much like to have broadcasts in their own language.

I have an idea that the strength of signal from BBC Wales has something to do with international agreements, but I shall look closely into the point raised by my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service what sites are being considered for the dispersal of Civil Service work from London.

Several areas throughout the country are being considered as potential receiving locations to receive Civil Service work dispersed from London. These areas include Scotland.

I am glad to hear that. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that he was widely reported in the Press as saying that no locations more than 180 miles from London would be considered for dispersal? That would be intolerable. Will he take this opportunity to deny it?

I was widely misreported, and I willingly take this opportunity to say that there is no limit whatever. The whole purpose of having a review of headquarters work is to look at those areas where there are under-utilised resources, and we are looking at all the development areas and regions of the United Kingdom.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that at present in Glasgow several modern new office blocks are available which would be suitable for Civil Service employment, and, moreover the average rentals charged in Glasgow are about one-quarter those of comparable offices in the centre of London?

Both those factors will be borne in mind by Sir Henry Hardman and his Committee. I should point out that Scotland has 42,000 civil servants. Since May, 1963, the last major exercise, 11,000 jobs have been dispersed or created in Scotland.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service what discussions are taking place with the Civil Service trade unions regarding the dispersal of Civil Service work from London.

As I told the hon. Member yesterday, there have been consultations with the national staff side throughout the dispersal exercise. These consultations are continuing. Individual departments have been keeping their own staff sides informed.

It is obviously right that these discussions should take place with the trade unions, but is the Minister aware that there is a danger that the decision about location might be determined by national trade unions, which, since most civil servants are in London, will tend to be London-dominated? Should not the final decision be the responsibility of the Government, with regional policy considerations in mind? Will the hon. Gentleman tell us whether that is the position?

The Government pride themselves on being good employers, and certainly, as good employers, we have already consulted and will continue to consult the national staff side. We have done this in dispersal exercises in the past and we shall certainly do so in this instance.

Is there not a very good case for the local branches of the Civil Service unions being consulted, particularly in areas of high unemployment such as Merseyside? While the hon. Gentleman is considering dispersal, may I ask him to bear in mind that there are large office blocks in the centre of Liverpool, which have now been empty for a number of years, which could take Civil Service departments?

Yes. I assure the hon. Gentleman that we are looking at areas like Merseyside and the North-West generally. Obviously I shall not be able to satisfy everybody on the question of dispersal. The North-West, apart from the South-East, has the highest concentration of civil servants. None the less, these factors will be taken into account by the Hardman Committee.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service if he will make a statement on the Government's policy for dispersal of Civil Service jobs to Glasgow and the West of Scotland.

When existing plans have been completed, some 7,000 Civil Service jobs will have been dispersed to Glasgow and the West of Scotland since 1963. In addition, some 2,500 jobs will have been established in the Glasgow area under the policy of setting up new offices away from London. Scotland is also being considered during the current review of the possibilities of dispersing further work from London.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Government's intentions concerning effective regional development policy will he looked at very closely in the light of what they do regarding Civil Service dispersal. In view of the high number of school leavers still out of employment in Glasgow and the West of Scotland, is it not clear that the bringing in of a large number of Civil Service jobs will give them the new opportunities which they desperately need.

Yes. As I said, these factors will be taken into consideration by the Hardman Committee. The whole purpose of having a dispersal exercise is the Government's belief that there is a great deal of good sense in taking jobs to people. That is the keystone of our regional policy.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that it might be of greater value to the economy of Scotland to reduce the burden of bureaucracy overall than to increase the burden of bureaucracy in Scotland?

I certainly agree that one of my responsibilities is the burden of bureaucracy. There is a Question on the Order Paper about this matter, and I have some quite encouraging figures to announce.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service if he will make a statement on progress made in the dispersal of Civil Service jobs from London.

Since May, 1963, which is the date of the last major dispersal initiative, just over 22,000 posts have been dispersed, while another 8,300 are due to be dispersed under existing plans. In addition, just over 7,000 posts have been set up in new headquarters units outside London, and another 11,000 are awaiting establishment under current plans.

In his dispersal policy will the Minister take into account the need to appoint some senior people into Scotland and other areas of that kind? If there is to be any encouragement for young people to enter the Civil Service, is this not exceedingly important?

Yes, indeed. We are conscious that in a programme of dispersal civil servants should be dispersed in sufficiently large numbers to provide a career base for those who are dispersed. I assure the hon. Gentleman, there having been several Questions on Scotland, that we are sympathetic. I hope that he will not take the view that the Government—or I, personally—are unsympathetic to Scotland's claims. The best thing I did in my life was to marry a Scot.

Has the Minister considered the claims of Swansea and South Wales as a point of dispersal for Civil Service jobs on three brief counts: first, that it is approximately 200 miles from London; secondly, that this would help in the diversification of employment, and, thirdly, taking everything into consideration, that the city is an extremely pleasant place in which to live?

Yes. I think that the Hardman Committee will take these factors into consideration. I should point out that Wales has been the lucky reception area of a substantial number of civil servants—particularly the Swansea area, which has the vehicle licensing centre.

Will the hon. Gentleman consider the experience of the Department of Education and Science, from which two important and large branches were dispersed to Darlington during the Labour Administration? Is there any reason why virtually the whole of a Government Department of that kind should not be sent to one of the development areas?

One problem about the dispersal of civil servants is that in the past we have tended to disperse executive blocks of work, and we are now looking at central policy units. They create considerable communications problems. However, I assure the right hon. Gentleman that these are just the kind of problems at which Sir Henry Hardman and his Committee will be looking.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service if he will make a statement on the arrangements made in the Stationery Office for printing the OFFICIAL REPORT.

The OFFICIAL REPORT is produced by Her Majesty's Stationery Office in its St. Stephen's Parliamentary Press.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that reply. Does he agree that it is intolerable when, because of an industrial dispute at Her Majesty's Stationery Office, this House is expected to give Third Readings to Bills without having any text of part of what has been said in the Committee stage debates? If industrial relations at the Stationery Office are as bad as they appear to be today, is it not high time that the contract for the printing was taken away and put somewhere else?

I regret the incident that led to the non-appearance of HANSARD on 15th November. As I have already explained, this was due to a technical failure in the heating equipment of the plant. I believe that industrial relations in the Press are improving, but I am conscious that their first duty is to provide the printed matter that this House requires.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the regular production of HANSARD day after day is a remarkable achievement and a great tribute to both the editorial and the printing staff, who get it out so quickly and on time, and that occasionally if we are to be deprived of the remarks in print of the hon. Mem- ber for South Angus (Mr. BruceGardyne) an industrial dispute is a small price to pay for it?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I am sure he will not be one who jumps up to ask me questions when there is another breakdown—which I hope there will not be.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service whether he will give, for 1st June, 1970, the total number of civil servants and their annual costs and similar details for the latest most convenient stated date.

The number of civil servants at 1st June, 1970, was 700,750 and at 1st October, 1972, was 690,985. The provision for Civil Service salaries and wages in the Supply Estimates was £937 million in 1970–71; the current provision in the 1972–73 Estimates is £1,086 million.

I shall be able to congratulate the Government and the Minister if he can assure me that this is comparing like with like. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that it is alleged that some of the 1971s have been transferred into other categories, and that therefore we are not comparing like with like? Can he assure me that if it were comparing like with like the figures which he has given would in fact apply?

No. The hon. Gentleman will appreciate, from Questions that I have answered earlier this year, that a certain number of civil servants have been hived off. He must also appreciate that some have been hived in. We have taken in a large number of civil servants who were formerly employees of local authorities. If the hon. Gentleman wants to play the numbers game, he must do better than that.

As the hon. Gentleman insists on giving us figures which are not seasonally adjusted, will he say how many additional civil servants will be needed to collect VAT in respect of professional fees which are paid from the State to recover 10 per cent. of those fees paid out by the State and bring them back to the State?

That question is really for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but he has said that the increased number of civil servants required to introduce VAT is about 6,000. I hope, however, that the hon. Gentleman will bear in mind that if the House approves the Government's tax credit scheme there will be a saving of between 10,000 and 15,000 civil servants.

Can my hon. Friend say how many extra civil servants have to be used to deal with Questions tabled by the hon. Member for West Ham, North (Mr. Arthur Lewis)?

The hon. Member for West Ham, North is equivalent to about 15 clerical officers.

The answer to that question shows the application of my hon. Friend. Referring to the number of civil servants, is not the hon. Gentleman guilty of a little fiddle? Is not the figure that really matters that of non-industrial civil servants? Did not the Prime Minister mean, by his pledge, that he was going to reduce the number of non-industrial civil servants? Can the hon. Gentleman say just how those figures have changed in the last two-and-a-half years?

The distinction between industrial and non-industrial civil servants—and I am not making a party point—is a very fine one in many jobs. For example, Ministers' drivers are industrial civil servants, which seems absurd. [Interruption.] Junior Ministers do not have drivers. Since 1970 we have consistently looked at the whole size of the Civil Service, industrial and non-industrial.