asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many security incidents in Ulster have taken place in total and in categories, of deaths, personal injuries and damage to property during the 260 days preceding Her Majesty's Government's political initiative on 24th March as compared with the 260 days following it.

Between 8th July 1971 and 23rd March 1972 there were 7,058 security incidents resulting in 230 deaths and 2,503 injuries requiring hospital treatment. From 24th March 1972 until 8th December there were 7,690 security incidents resulting in 365 deaths and 3,296 injuries. It would require disproportionate effort to extract details of property damage from police records for the two periods stated.

Will my hon. Friend now confirm whether the melancholy trend towards increasing incidents and injuries since the initiative in the spring, as compared with the earlier period, has been reversed and, if not, can he forecast when the initiative will start to bring fruitful results in reducing the number of people injured and killed?

My hon. Friend used the phrase "melancholy trend", but since Operation Motorman I can confirm that the trend has been definitely downward. All the evidence shows that there is a much lower level of activity involving security forces at this time, and this is encouraging.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what communications he has received from Republican sources in the past four weeks with respect to a cease-fire in Northern Ireland; and what reply has been given by, or on behalf of, Her Majesty's Government.

As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister told the House on 30th November, no direct approaches have been made either by the Official or by the Provisional IRA.

Does the Secretary of State now agree that it would be a mistake to negotiate in any way with the official or unofficial IRA?

There is no question of negotiating with them at all. If they want a cease-fire, they can stop shooting.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a further statement on the meetings he has had with representatives of political parties in Northern Ireland.

Following the publication of the paper for discussion, I have been having further talks with representatives of political parties in Northern Ireland, of the churches, and of both sides of industry. These talks have been valuable and have enabled me to discuss the considered reactions of various sections of opinion in Northern Ireland to the points made in the paper for discussion.

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. Has he indicated to the political parties the date that he expects to set for the border poll, and told them of some of the contents of his White Paper?

No, I did not indicate that to the political parties—for the very good reason that I shall be answering Questions on this subject at the conclusion of Question Time. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will agree that the right place to give answers is in the House. As for the White Paper, I have made no commitment and will not do so.

Is the Secretary of State aware that we are very pleased that discussions have begun with the SDLP? We understand that the right hon. Gentleman had a meeting with that party. Has he anything to say about those discussions, and will they continue with the SDLP, the NILP, the Unionist Party, and so on?

I made it clear that I would not say anything about the discussions. I was interested to hear their views. They are entitled to express to the Press, as they have done, what they said to me. I have kept my side of the discussions confidential, as is right and proper, before I report to my colleagues.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will reconsider the decision to abolish the new towns commissions

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland why he intends to transfer the functions of the development commissions in Northern Ireland to the Ministry of Development.

After careful consideration the Government decided to implement the decision taken by the former Northern Ireland Government regarding the reorganisation of local services. Functions at present exercised by the development commissions will be transferred to the housing executive, to area boards, to the district councils and to appropriate Ministries, including the Ministry of Development.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the commissions have built up highly efficient teams to implement development schemes in their respective areas? Does he not feel that much of the drive and impetus will be lost if such teams are broken up and their duties allocated to the various departments that he I listed?

I am not so pessimistic about the situation. The commissions have carried out a first-class job. I understand that the great majority of the staff will be absorbed, and those who are not will be compensated. I do not think that there will be any loss of drive or impetus.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what progress he has made in enlisting wider sections of the public in the defence of the Northern Ireland community against terrorism.

The Royal Ulster Constabulary Reserve is now 2,176 strong and the Northern Ireland Police Authority have announced the setting up of a womens' section of the reserve. The Ulster Defence Regiment was 9,156 strong at the end of November.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many people in Northern Ireland are grateful to the Northern Ireland Office for cutting through the red tape and ensuring that women may join the reserve? Is my hon. Friend satisfied that the criteria for entry are realistic rather than ideal?

I am grateful for my hon. Friend's comments about the women's section of the reserve. The criteria for entry are reviewed from time to time. We believe that they offer the opportunity for many people to come forward as volunteers to the UDR and RUC reserve.

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the commanding officer of the UDR has had a general order posted saying that no member of the UDR should take part in activities which would conflict with his membership of the UDR—to wit, being a member of the UDA. Is the hon. Gentleman prepared to say that membership of the Ulster Defence Association is completely incompatible with membership of the Ulster Defence Regiment?

It has been made clear by my right hon. Friend and by my right hon. and noble Friend the Secretary of State for Defence that it is quite unacceptable that there should be an overlap of loyalties. If anyone should be found putting other loyalties in front of his loyalties to the UDR, which is intended to be and is an entirely nonsectarian force, that man would be discharged.

Does my hon. Friend consider that there is any future in a home guard or local volunteer force for the border areas to increase security and to bring local people into their own defence?

There have been representations along these lines. However, we believe that the best way is for volunteers for the UDR and RUC Reserve—who are properly armed for their job—to come forward and to serve the community in this way.

With the B Specials in mind, might not the subject very properly raised by the hon. Member for Chig-well (Mr. Biggs-Davison) take us on to dangerous ground? Nevertheless, might not a community-type police force in the end be necessary in certain areas, especially in Belfast?

These considerations lie in the future. For the time being the main aim is to strengthen, on a nonsectarian basis, the existing forces set up to preserve and maintain law and order. This must be the way forward for the time being.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many requests for extradition have been made to the Republic of Ireland Government from 1st January 1972 to the latest convenient date; how many applications have been successful; and what proposals he has to improve these arrangements.

The answer to the first part of the Question is 16. None of the applications has so far been successful. Where it appears that there are reasons for querying the failure to execute a warrant, the case is taken up with the authorities in the Republic of Ireland.

Is not it very disappointing that the system does not appear to be working satisfactorily? Can my hon. Friend confirm my impression that there are a number of warrants that the security authorities in Northern Ireland have which would be lodged if this procedure worked satisfactorily? Then, taking the last part of my hon. Friend's reply about the examination of the reasons why these 16 cases have made no progress, can my hon. Friend say that they will be gone into in detail at diplomatic level?

As for the detail of the cases, where there is a delay it is naturally taken up with the authorities in the Republic of Ireland. Some of the persons concerned have been arrested in Northern Ireland and, encouragingly, three are now before the courts in the Republic. We welcome this. I believe that it is a sign of increased co-operation for the future upon which we must build our efforts in this area.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many vacancies have occurred in the suspended Northern Ireland Parliament since March 1972.

Two—one in the House of Commons and one in the Senate.

Does not my lion. Friend agree that allowing those vacancies to remain indefinitely without increased representation at Westminster adds weight to the justifiable grievance of people in Northern Ireland that neither at Westminster nor in their Province are they given representation commensurate with the representation given in other parts of the United Kingdom?

I quite understand what my hon. Friend is saying. However, we believe that it is right to await the announcement of the White Paper and what it entails.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (1) how many references to commissioners under the Detention of Terrorists (Northern Ireland) Order have now been determined; and how many of them have resulted in the making of detention orders; and

Up to 13th December 141 cases had been determined by the commissioners, 86 of them resulting in the making of detention orders and 55 resulting in releases. A total of 190 persons were on that date detained under interim custody orders, of whom 161 had been held for more than 28 days since the making of the order.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that helpful information. Does he recall the figures quoted by the Attorney-General in Monday's debate, namely, that out of 72 persons dealt with through the ordinary criminal courts in Belfast in a period of seven weeks for terrorist-type offences, only six were acquitted by juries? Does not that indicate that normally these cases can be dealt with satisfactorily through the ordinary criminal process, and will he undertake that no one will be dealt with under the Detention of Terrorists (Northern Ireland) Order unless there is reason to believe that he cannot be dealt with by the ordinary processes of the law?

I give that undertaking completely. As I think the hon. and learned Gentleman appreciates, a number of people have been charged with firearms offences and other terrorist offences in recent weeks and months. This is a very satisfactory development. It is one that I wish to encourage.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say what is happening to those who have been interned since the beginning of the emergency, and certainly for a good deal longer than 28 days? Will they be dealt with under this order, or is there some other procedure by which they may be kept interned?

There is no other procedure. All of them are being dealt with under this order. They have been dealt with in chronological order up to now.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many health centres have been built in Northern Ireland to date; what percentage of the overall total of general practitioners is practising from these health centres; and how this compares with progress in the remainder of the United Kingdom.

At 1st December 1972 there were 31 health centres in operation in Northern Ireland, and it is estimated that between 17 per cent. and 18 per cent. of general practitioners were practising from health centres. In December 1971, the comparative percentages for England and Wales and for Scotland were 8·3 and 5·5 respectively.

In view of the importance of health centres—especially in deprived areas—in providing a variety of medical services conveniently available under one roof, what plans are there for the future?

In the short term, by 31st March 1975 there will be 63 health centres. In the long term, plans are in hand for a number of other projects whereby by 1980 there will be 500 family doctors working from about 90 centres. That is a very high percentage when it is compared with the situation over here.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many persons have been trained in Northern Ireland in Government training centres or by employers with the aid of grants from Government over the most recent 12 months for which information is available.

Approximately 13,500 during the 12 months ended 30th September 1972.

Can my hon. Friend say how that compares with the rest of the United Kingdom? If, as I suspect, it is a higher average than in the rest of the United Kingdom, is not that a cause for congratulation and encouragement to all those responsible for administering training centres, in view of the trying circumstances that some of them have to face?

This is a success story. Obviously the Government take this matter very seriously, and progress has been made. The number of training centres set up per head of the population is nine times that for Great Britain.

The hon. Gentleman talks about a success story there, and in that respect I congratulate everyone concerned. But what about the increasing redundancy which is occurring in Northern Ireland as a result of mergers? I have in mind especially the proposed merger between Belfast Corporation Transport and Ulsterbus, which will result in 450 redundancies. What will be done to train those people, and what will be the attitude towards members of my union in terms of help in the future.

This is why the Government are taking so seriously the business of attracting new industry to Northern Ireland. To do that it is necessary to have a comprehensive scheme. We have it. One of the interesting things that I have discovered is the integrated work force units which some redundant workers can take advantage of, which will help industrialists coming to Northern Ireland.

Can the hon. Gentleman say how many young people are being taken on at these centres and held for a period of 12 months or more initial training? I have in mind especially young people who cannot get jobs. Is there a special drive in this direction?

There is. We have just set up a new training centre specifically to deal with these people. It is very important to see that young people in Northern Ireland are trained and have some hope of a job in the future.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he expects to receive the report from Lord Diplock on the administration of justice and the combating of terrorism in Northern Ireland.

I received the report of the commission chaired by Lord Diplock on 6th December and it is now being considered by Her Majesty's Government. I am extremely grateful to the commission for the speed with which it has completed its difficult task.

Will the report be published? Now that Lord Diplock has finished his task so swiftly, will my right hon. Friend consider a suggestion that he should be asked to turn his attention to the problem of combating terrorism in other parts of the United Kingdom?

On the first point, the report will be published. On the second point, I am very pleased to confine my responsibilities to Northern Ireland.

Will the right hon. Gentleman publish his proposals for a Bill of Rights before the border poll?

I cannot make any such commitment. I shall merely consider what the hon. and learned Gentleman has said.

When does my right hon. Friend intend to introduce legislation, if any is required, to implement the Diplock recommendations?

The first thing is for the Government to consider the report and to publish it so that it may be considered, and then the question of legislation will arise—but that must be a matter for my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House.

Referring to the answer which the right hon. Gentleman gave to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rowley Regis and Tipton (Mr. Peter Archer) on the subject that we discussed at length the other evening, may I ask him to consider the point that my hon. and learned Friend has made—and which we made the other night—that the Diplock terms of reference were drawn up on a narrow front? Before a decision is taken on the implications of Diplock, will there be wider consideration, in the context of a Bill of Rights?

I certainly note and will consider what the hon. Gentleman has said.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he hopes to publish the White Paper on the future of Northern Ireland.

I have nothing to add to the reply given to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Down, North (Mr. Kilfedder) on 9th November.—[Vol. 845, c. 224.]

Early publication of the White Paper is clearly required if the damaging air of uncertainty in political circles in Northern Ireland is to be removed, but will my right hon. Friend take cognisance of the wide body of opinion in Northern Ireland—an opinion which I certainly share—that the border poll must precede publication of the White Paper? Otherwise, there is danger of the two issues intruding one upon the the other.

I take note of all these points. The White Paper, whenever it comes, will be of considerable importance to the future of Northern Ireland. It would be a great mistake to try to rush things, thereby possibly making some wrong decisions, merely for the sake of speed. I am anxious not to make any commitment about dates at this stage because I should not wish to make a commitment which in the event was not fulfilled.

I accept what the Secretary of State says about rushing the White Paper. Nevertheless, is he aware that a build up of tension could arise while waiting for the White Paper, and that it would be in the interests of all if the White Paper were published immediately it is ready?

I take note of the hon. Gentleman's view. I realise the importance of not having a long period of tension and uncertainty. Equally, I must reserve the Government's position, because very big issues are involved.

In preparing the White Paper, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the British dimension, namely, full British standards together with full and adequate representation in this House for Northern Ireland.

These are all matters which are being most carefully considered.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, in view of the use by the Irish Republican Army of Warsaw Pact type rocket launchers or other weapons of similar origin, what further steps he is proposing to take to improve police and other local intelligence services.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what steps have been taken, in view of the increased use of rocket launchers by the Irish Republican Army, to strengthen border security and to improve police intelligence.

It would not be in the public interest to disclose how intelligence about rocket launchers or other weapons is gained, or what counter measures are being taken.

Will my hon. Friend assure the House that there will be no lack of Government funds to improve our intelligence services?

I can certainly give that assurance. Both funds and every energy will be used in providing the necessary intelligence services and other factors.

Speaking as one who has voluntarily provided himself with an identity card, will the Government reconsider whether it is not necessary, in the difficult times in which we live, for all citizens of the United Kingdom to have identity cards?

That is a major issue, which would involve my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. I ask my hon. Friend to consider the problems of making such a measure effective in Northern Ireland at this time.

Have we had any reply, helpful or otherwise, to the inquiries that we have made of the Soviet Embassy?

That is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a further statement on security in the border areas in Northern Ireland, with particular reference to the adequacy of police protection.

The security forces continue to control the border as effectively as possible. Measures have been taken to protect police stations in border areas and there is an Army presence in these stations.

In view of the remoteness of many of these police stations and the fact that as soon as practicable, from a security point of view, it would be advantageous to move over to indigenous security forces rather than to place reliance on the British Army, will my hon. Friend consult the Secretary of State for Defence on the re-establishment of No. 502 County of Ulster Auxiliary Squadron, for the patrol of the border, on the lines adopted by the Irish Republic, which has an air wing equipped with Cessna light aircraft?

I dealt with that issue in reply to earlier Questions this afternoon. The Government's view is that the UDR and the RUC Reserve provide the proper vehicles for the pursuit of security duties. My hon. Friend mentioned the Irish Republic and Irish forces. There are signs of much quicker movement and greatly welcome co-operation by both the Garda and the Irish Army in security incidents on the border.

The hon. Gentleman will recall that a few weeks ago Opposition Members expressed great concern about the security of individual families of both communities. Is he yet in a position to tell us what steps have been taken, by the provision of such things as walkie-talkie radio sets for contacting police stations and security forces, to protect people who feel themselves isolated?

I cannot specify all the steps for what I think the House will accept as the very good reason that it would jeopardise and make more difficult the work of those who have to operate on the ground. A number of steps are still under review by both the Army and the RUC. I have said that the suggestion concerning walkie-talkie radios would be looked into. That matter has been studied very closely by both the Army and the RUC, but their view is that it would not be adequate and effective, and they are not willing to adopt it. If the hon. Gentleman would like me to write giving the full details and reasons I should be glad to do so.

Will my hon. Friend consider some method of controlling the movement of vehicles in border areas?

Those matters are under review. I do not wish to give the House any details of proposals now in action because it would increase the difficulties for those working on the ground.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what progress has been made in arranging a merger between Belfast Corporation bus services and Ulsterbus.

The agreed target date for the merger is 1st April 1973. Negotiations between all the interested parties, including the managements and the trade unions, are continuing.

Does my hon. Friend recognise that while such a merger will probably lead to greater efficiency in operation, it is important to ensure that the amalgamation does not lead to undue redundancies, particularly as all transport workers in Northern Ireland have been operating under great strain for a number of years?

Yes. Indeed, negotiations are going on at the moment between the management of the proposed new merged company, Citybus Limited, and the trade unions. These negotiations cover vital staffing matters, including wages and conditions, and the numbers to be employed by the merged undertaking.

Do I understand that, despite the postponement of the local government elections and other local government matters, the merger is still scheduled for 1st April and has not been put off?

That is correct.

Does the Minister understand that there are 450 threatened redundancies as a result of this merger, many of them within my own union? Bearing in mind the unemployment situation in Northern Ireland and the particularly difficult task of people who have been involved in supplying transport services in the six counties over the past three years, these men need special consideration.

With respect to the hon. Gentleman, he must be very clever to know the exact number of redundancies, because, as I understand it, these have not yet been ascertained. It is our intention to keep these to a minimum, and certainly all staff matters will be dealt with humanely and with the maximum consideration for the staff. All this is going on in close consultation with the Ministry of Development and the trade unions.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he has yet received the report of the interdepartmental working party which has been examining the possibility of aiding owner-occupiers who, because of the disturbances in certain areas, are unable to sell their houses; and if he will make a statement.

The report of the working party is being considered by Departments concerned. I appreciate the urgency of the problem, but I regret it is not possible to make a statement yet.

May I press my hon. Friend strongly on this? Considerable hardship is caused to people who are unable to sell their houses because they are on the fringe of riot areas and no building society loans are available. There is a pressing need for some kind of Government guarantee to the building societies to try to cut through this knot. In particular, will my hon. Friend consider as a matter of urgency the idea of allowing the Housing Executive to engage in a large-scale programme of purchasing houses into which it can put tenants, otherwise we shall see vast areas of Belfast decline, with all the consequences that that must bring.

My hon. Friend may press me very hard on this. I realise that there are real problems here, but I must point out that other Departments come into the matter—particularly the Treasury and the Ministry of Finance—and I am not at present in a position to announce any result.

Will the hon. Gentleman look very closely at the problem of Roden Street, in Belfast, about which I have had evidence to support the view put forward by the hon. Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Stratton Mills)? There is a particular problem there, because it is in a cross-fire area. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will undertake to look carefully into the problem.

I shall look carefully into the matter, but discussions are going on and it is important to get this right. There are other problems in Northern Ireland, and it is important to get this fair.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when she hopes to publish her White Paper on higher education.

The White Paper presented to Parliament by my right hon. Friend on 6th December included proposals on higher education, amongst other topics.

What are the Government saying to those vice-chancellors—not least the Chairman-elect of the BBC—who complain that they do not know how much money they will have in the short- and middle-term, and therefore find any kind of rational forward planning rather difficult?

The White Paper sets out the details of the quinquennial settlement, and I understand that the University Grants Committee will be able to inform individual universities of their allocations in about a month's time.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the Expenditure Committee is shortly to publish its report on higher education? May we have an assurance that there will not be much delay, as there are on some reports, in giving the departmental replies to it?

I am not aware of any delays in replies from my Department, and I hope that my arrival there will not make the position worse.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this and many other parts of the White Paper have received a considerable amount of criticism from certain informed quarters, particularly about the lack of opportunity for many pupils who will qualify for university education but will be unable to get it if the right hon. Lady's proposals are carried out? Does he not think that he ought to ask his right hon. Friend to reconsider the provision and realise that if it is necessary to make economies in certain areas of education they should not be made in the provision of teaching facilities?

I am sure that well-informed quarters will know that the proportion of young people having a chance of higher education in 1981 will be half as great again as they are now—22 per cent. in 1981 compared with 15 per cent. in 1971—and if there are any quarters that are not informed about that I am sure the hon. Lady will do her best to spread the good news.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations have been made to her, following the establishment this year of her inquiry into the matter, regarding the rules concerning school transport; and what replies she has made.

My right hon. Friend has received a number of letters from Members and others about school transport matters. The nature of the reply has depended upon the problems raised in the letters, and in appropriate cases the correspondence has been drawn to the attention of the Working Party on School Transport.

Has my hon. Friend seen the correspondence that I had with his Department on this subject before he joined it? Does he not agree that the 3-mile rule is being applied harshly? Is he aware that in my constituency parents who live so close to each other that they would normally use the same bus-stop are treated differently in terms of the provision of school transport? Will he do something to speed up the working party's report on this subject and let us have some sense in dealing with it?

I have seen the correspondence to which my hon. Friend referred between himself and my noble Friend the Under-Secretary of State. It has been explained to my hon. Friend that there is no obligation on the local education authority to provide transport or to pay fares for a pupil living less than the statutory walking distance from the school at which he is registered, but if there are special cases of hardship I shall certainly be willing to consult the local authority on the matter.

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that the three-mile limit is absolutely wrong? Young girls of 11 and 12 sometimes have to walk for 50 minutes—through districts where they are likely to be accosted and which are dangerous—before they reach their schools. Will he look into this again and do something about it?

I am sympathetic to the point made by the hon. Gentleman, but this is a matter to which the working party will give consideration—and I, along with others, await its report with a great deal of interest.

This report is taking an awfully long time. Does my hon. Friend realise that, apart from what was said a moment ago by the hon. Member for Watford (Mr. Raphael Tuck), there are many roads whose conditions have changed completely? Roads which were once quiet are now subjected to heavy and dangerous traffic. The problem should be looked into with the greatest urgency, and it should not be a matter of having to wait and wait for some working party, which may take years to report.

I do not think that the working party will take years to report. I think that my hon. Friend will agree that this inquiry is so important that it should be done very thoroughly as well as swiftly. Already 25 interested organisations have submitted evidence, and we have received from members of the public more than 50 letters which have been passed to the working party. It must do its work thoroughly, but we shall see that it reports as quickly as it can and will let hon. Members know when it does.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that he is far too complacent in this matter? I agree that he ought to consult various organisations, but he ought also to consult the local education authorities in many of the new towns. In Cramlington, for example, the road pattern is changing rapidly, and an arbitrary three-mile limit for providing assistance for schoolchildren is entirely wrong. The hon. Gentleman should consider the question of road safety as well as the question of distance.

I agree that that is an important and related question, and any local education authorities that wish to make their views known should submit their evidence and their views to the working party as soon as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if she will give the estimated amount of money to be spent on subnormal children during the current financial year, and the estimated figures over each of the next three years.

My right hon. Friend estimates that current expenditure on special schools in England is £61 million this year and will be £68 million, £73 million, and £78 million, respectively, in the next three. Separate information is not collected about expenditure on the various categories of handicapped pupils.

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that it is rather disgraceful to rely upon the parents of subnormal children to have them educated? Does he take into consideration the responsibility of parents to make certain that these children lead a decent life? When the parents pass away, will these children be left to fend for themselves, or will the State accept responsibility for them? They would stand a much better chance if the education system were better able to provide for them.

I agree with the hon. Gentleman, and I share his great concern about the future of these children. We are, fortunately, able to accelerate the special school building programme. Building starts will rise from £11 million in 1972–73 to £19 million in 1976–77. The precise allocation for each category of handicap has not been decided upon, but a high priority will be given to the needs of all educationally subnormal children, including the severely handicapped.

Has my hon. Friend seen the correspondence that I have addressed to his Department about the conditions at a school in Kent in which sub-normal children are educated? The conditions are squalid and appalling. I hope that my hon. Friend will pay great regard to the pressure upon the Department to ensure that custom-built schools, or at least really adequate schools, are made available to these subnormal children.

The answer to my hon. Friend's general question is that we are keeping the matter under constant review. I shall personally look into the case of the school that he mentioned.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what amounts of money she expects to permit the inner London education authorities to spend on improvements to secondary schools within the terms of her White Paper, "A Framework for Educational Expansion".

All local education authorities have been asked for their proposals. It is too early to say how the resources will be distributed.

But does not the Minister recall that on 6th December he told us that London's share might, with luck, be £1½ million for the two years 1975–1977? If he agrees that that is so, does he not think it disgraceful that over a period of two years inner London will receive only about half as much as the sum that this House, by a disreputable political manoeuvre, was asked to expend on the car park outside? Are not he and his hon. Friends ashamed of this imbalance of expenditure?

The whole of educational expenditure is a matter of priorities. Government policy has been to give priority to the replacement of out-of-date primary schools. However, we can now move on to replacing out-of date secondary schools. We have allotted an extra budget of £18 million for the improvement and replacement of secondary schools in the years 1975–76 and 1976–77. I did not commit myself to the precise figures that the hon. Gentleman quoted. I well recall his contribution to the debate, which was very fierce. I can say that London will get its fair share.

When considering secondary improvements in inner London, will my hon. Friend try to prod the Inner London Education Authority into moving away from its excessive commitment to all-through, 11–18 secondary schools?

I am in constant consultation with the authority on all subjects within my sphere of responsibility. I shall pay particular attention to that point.

The Minister spoke of 18 million in a few years. Can he tell us the average price of a new secondary school, and how many schools and places that very meagre figure will provide?

I cannot, but I shall send the hon. Gentleman the figures.

If the Inner London Education Authority is anxious to find more money for improvements to secondary schools, is there anything to prevent it from selling a surplus site and using the profits for those improvements?

Yes—overcrowded schools.

I am sure that the authority will take note of my hon. Friend's suggestion.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what response he has received from local authorities and harbour authorities in regard to Home Office Circular No. 178/1972, about the scheme for marking bathing areas.

Except that one local authority doubts the need for top markings on the buoys and two others prefer their own arrangements, I have no reason to think that the scheme is not acceptable to local authorities and harbour authorities generally.

May I express my gratitude to the Home Office for the circular, particularly on behalf of the coastal authorities in my constituency? It is an excellent contribution to safety in bathing areas and should be followed up, because more and more people are taking advantage of leisure opportunities, and the protection given by the marking buoys will prevent many disasters at the seaside in the coming season.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he says. It is a serious situation when nearly 200 people a year are drowned along our coasts. I am glad to hear what the hon. Gentleman says about his own local authority. I hope that other local authorities will bear in mind the powers they already have and take further action in this direction.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what replies he has given to the requests of the National Water Safety Committee and the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents for the setting up of an independent commission on water safety; and if he will make a statement.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave on 6th December to a similar Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth, East and Christchurch (Mr. Cordle).—[Vol. 847, c. 440.]

Is the Minister aware that this matter follows on from my previous Question, and is ancillary to it? Safety in bathing areas on sea coasts and in harbour areas is vital. Once again, we congratulate the Department on the attitude that it has taken in the matter. Will it continue to press local authorities and see that the commission for which we are asking is brought into being?

The matter is urgent and important. The proposal for the commission was made only at the end of July. We have been consulting a number of the bodies concerned. We have nearly finished our consultations, and I hope that my right hon. Friend will be able to take a decision very soon.

asked the Prime Minister if he will seek to raise the topic of aid to developing countries when next he meets Commonwealth Prime Ministers.

The agenda for the meeting will be settled by collective agreement, but I shall be glad to discuss aid to the developing countries if it is the general wish to do so.

Is the Prime Minister aware that there is bound to be considerable concern over the fact that official aid is now running at less than a half of 1 per cent. of the gross national product? How will he explain this lamentable record to the Commonwealth Prime Ministers when we have had a balance of payment surplus? What will it be like when we are running into a balance of payments deficit?

I do not accept that it is a lamentable record. It is a better record than that of the hon. Gentleman's own Administration. Since we took office we have increased official development assistance both in absolute terms and as a percentage of GNP. This country contributes, as a proportion of GNP, more than any other major industrialised country except France—more than the United States, more than Japan, more than Germany, more than Italy, more than Canada—something of which the British people can be proud.

What importance does my right hon. Friend attach to commodity agreements in providing overseas aid?

We attach importance to commodity agreements and in international negotiations we have tried to secure them, but it is not possible for an individual country to deal with the whole problem of commodity agreements on its own.

Will the Prime Minister bear in mind the imperative need for urgent help for the Sudan? Is he aware that we have given about £200,000 to help in the exceedingly difficult situation following the civil war, but that Sweden alone, which has no past connection with that part of the globe, has so far given 1½ million dollars? Therefore, will he himself intervene in the matter?

I am prepared to have the case looked at again, but in comparing us with Sweden the hon. Gentleman will acknowledge, I think, that a large proportion of our aid goes to the member countries of the Commonwealth.

Is not the skill with which the money is spent quite as important as the amount allotted?

Yes, Sir. I agree with my hon. Friend. I think that in this country, as a result of our experience of empire and then Commonwealth, we also know that we have built up properly the best body of specialised knowledge, both administrative and technical, of any country in the world.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the progress of his investigation into the leakage of information from Government Departments.

I have no such statement to make at present, Sir.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the present situation is extremely unsatisfactory and alarming? He must be aware that recent reports in both The Guardian and the Sunday People indicate that information about private individuals can be obtained from Government Departments and local authorities with relative ease, but information that the public are entitled to have is deliberately prevented by the Government from getting out. The Government put in Scotland Yard or somebody else to find out what was leaked about British Rail, which is of immediate public concern, yet details of the private affairs of individuals can be obtained, to such a degree—[Horn. MEMBERS: "Too long."]—that Scotland Yard went to a private detective agency a few months ago and took away information about 250,000 individuals.

I do not accept the two allegations made by the hon. Gentleman. It is the job of Departments to safeguard all information until a decision is made that it should be made public either to Parliament or in some other way. Regarding the individual questions, I have already told the House that charges are in fact before the court and that every case of an alleged leakage of confidential information which is brought to our notice is immediately investigated. Those to which the hon. Gentleman refers are being investigated at present.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the information that he gave on Tuesday to the Leader of the Opposition was correct?

I have written to the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition and explained to him, after further checking, that the information I gave to the House was correct. In addition to the information I gave the House, there is a further procedure, which is termed, and generally known as, the leak procedure, which I was not describing.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I received his letter only a few minutes before this Question time and that on reading it and finding that he was not referring to the leak procedure, as I thought, I would not disagree that what he said on Tuesday was a correct account of what had happened under both Governments? As he will understand, however, from the letter I received from the Lord President when I raised the matter earlier it appeared to be a matter under the leak procedure on which I put my question.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his official discussions in London with Lee Kuan Yew, Prime Minister of Singapore.

I was glad to meet Mr. Lee during his visit to London, when we had a useful and interesting discussion.

Now that there are new Governmentts in Canberra and Wellington, committed to the withdrawal of troops, what are consequences for British policy as to the five-power agreement?

I am sorry, but I cannot agree with the hon. Gentleman that both Governments are committed to the withdrawal of troops from the five-power agreement. That is not what leaders of those parties have said since they became Prime Ministers.

Mr. Lee must obviously be now wishing to have a close understanding with our Common Market partners about the future of his country, but what assurance was my right hon. Friend able to give the Singapore Prime Minister about our relations with Singapore in both defence and trade matters?

The Prime Minister of Singapore has been kept in the closest touch during our negotiations to enter the Community. I know of no occasions on which he has ever made a complaint about this or arrangements with the Community. It is generally known that since his visit to London he has visited other capitals of the Community in order to discuss Singapore's affairs with them. But he knows that we wish to retain the closest relations in both trade and defence.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his official meeting with the Prime Minister of Canada.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement following his official meeting with the Prime Minister of Canada.

Mr. Trudeau took up a long-standing invitation that I had extended to him to visit this country.

Did my right hon. Friend happen to read an article in The Times last week, by the right hon. Member for Coventry, East (Mr. Cross-man), in which he alleged that there had been great neglect, on the part of all Governments since the war, of our Canadian interests and friends, and that no British Minister has visited Canada except as a stopping-off place for Washington? If that is so, can my right hon. Friend do something to remedy that position?

I have been to Ottawa twice since becoming Prime Minister. It is perfectly natural that one pays a visit to the United States and to Canada when one is in North America. There have been individual visits by Ministers to Canada without their going on to the United States, when required, and the Minister for Trade carried out such a visit in May 1971. I think that we have made more visits to Canada than the Prime Minister of Canada has made to this country. But surely what is important is that we should make visits when justifiable, in whichever sphere they are concerned.

Did the right hon. Gentleman explain to the Prime Minister of Canada the logic behind the situation in which, from 1st January, citizens of Canada will be admitted to this country only if they pass the most restrictive tests, whereas people from Réunion, Guadeloupe, French Guiana and Martinique can come with parents, grandparents, parents-in-law, grandparents-in-law and children and will be admitted here to look for work without any restriction whatsoever?

The Prime Minister of Canada told me that he had no complaint of any kind about the procedures exercised in this country, nor would he have any complaints about the new procedures being introduced. Indeed, he recognised that the procedures for entry into Canada for citizens of this country were in some ways more severe than those we are introducing.

Contrary to the racialist view expressed by the hon. Member for Manchester, Ardwick (Mr. Kaufman), is it not a fact that the Canadian Government, in already agreeing to take 6,300 Ugandan Asians, have more than played their part in helping this country and the Ugandan Asians out of a particular difficulty?

Yes, Sir. Canada has undoubtedly played a major part, together with India, in helping us to deal with that situation. I thought it right to thank the Prime Minister of Canada and, through him, the people of Canada, for the very generous action they have taken.

In view of suggestions that there was disagreement between the right hon. Gentleman and the Prime Minister of Canada about how long the Ottawa conference should be, and that the Canadian Prime Minister wanted a conference approaching normal length and the right hon. Gentleman a short one, can the right hon. Gentleman say whether agreement has been reached between them and with other Commonwealth Prime Ministers on how long the Ottawa conference will last?

It is not a matter for the Prime Minister of Canada and myself to settle the length of the conference. This is a matter for all Prime Ministers to decide. But the right hon. Gentleman will recall that it was the Prime Minister of Canada who, at Singapore, nut forward various proposals for improving the way in which the Commonwealth conference is handled. These have been discussed with officials, and one of the matters discussed was the form of making speeches, hand-cuts to the Press, individual contributions and the length of the conference. There was no major disagreement about this. My view is that if a conference is being held at a time when Prime Ministers have to be away from their parliaments, in modern times something much less than 12 days is a long time for a Prime Minister to be away from a parliament. I am not the only one who holds that view.

Is the Prime Minister aware that when I was in Canada it was humorously suggested to me that the difficulty with all British Prime Ministers is that they go to Washington first and go to Ottawa to tell them what Washington said, and always take Ottawa second. The suggestion was that it would be a good idea to go to Ottawa first and tell Washington what Ottawa said.

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for that suggestion, but on the two occasions on which I have visited North America since becoming Prime Minister I have visited Ottawa first.

It did not make any difference, did it?

asked the Prime Minister if he will appoint a grocer to the Central Policy Review Body.

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Mr. Carter) on 7th December.—[Vol. 847, c. 501.]

How many complaints has the Prime Minister had from grocers since the television broadcast he did the other night, when he told everyone to do their shopping in supermarkets? Is it the case that even if grocers wanted to keep down prices they could not do so because the present Government's, or Heathco's, prices freeze policy is a gigantic farce?

I have had no complaints of that kind and I have made none to myself.

Is the Prime Minister aware that, unlike himself, I am by qualification and training a grocer? When he is considering the composition of this review body, will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to consider my qualifications for appointment?

I shall, indeed, but I would not want to enter into competition with the hon. Gentleman.

asked the Prime Minister if he will seek to make an official visit to Portugal.

I have no plans at present to do so.

If the Prime Minister has any contacts with the Portuguese Government in the future will he make it clear that they are not likely to be accept- able as partners in an enlarged European Community until such time as they stop misusing NATO arms against liberal movements in Africa?

Portugal was a member of EFTA throughout the lifetime of the previous Conservative Government and the Labour Government, and for part of the present Administration. Regarding membership of the Community, in the summit communiqué we reaffirmed very strongly the requirements of a country for membership, including its democratic procedures.

Will the Prime Minister answer the second part of the question from the hon. Member for Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles (Mr. David Steel) and make it clear to the Portuguese Government that the misuse of NATO weapons in Portuguese-held territories of southern Africa is quite contrary to the whole spirit of the NATO agreement, and certainly contrary to the spirit of people of this country, who believe that the people of southern Africa should be free from all colonial domination?

The Portuguese Government are well aware of our views on this matter.

Is the Prime Minister aware that many people in this country are eagerly looking forward to the celebration of the 600th anniversary of the alliance?

I believe that that is the case.