asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he will next meet the Scottish Trades Union Congress and the Scottish Council (Development and Industry).

I met representatives of the Scottish Trades Union Congress and of the Scottish Council on 8th December and I will be ready for a further meeting when this would be helpful.

Is the Secretary of State aware that some of us on the Opposition side attended a youth conference convened by the STUC and that at that conference, which was well attended, we were told that in London and the South East there are 210 jobs for every 100 youths wanting jobs, whereas in Scotland there are 100 youths to every 10 jobs? Is he aware that the situation is serious, and that unless there is an upsurge of jobs for the male population in Scotland the youth of our country will be lost for ever?

This has been an extremely serious situation, to which I have referred in the House on many occasions. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will welcome, with me, the improving trend since last March in the unemployment figures.

Hon. Members welcome any discussions with the Scottish trade union movement and the Scottish Council, but does the right hon. Gentleman realise that leadership comes from the top and not from the rank and file and that in Scotland we very much require leadership from the top, from the Secretary of State? That is absolutely imperative.

I agree. I thought at first that the hon. Gentleman was referring to the STUC and the Scottish Council. I am sure that the importance of leadership applies to all bodies.

I hope that the right hon. Gentleman was not referring to the leader in today's Glasgow Herald. Was the meeting to which my hon. Friend the Member for Bothwell (Mr. James Hamilton) referred the one at which the Secretary of State was unable to give satisfaction to the STUC about the £400 million investment programme for steel in Scotland, in respect of which we are still awaiting an answer, not having been able to obtain satisfaction from the right hon. Gentleman or from the Department of Trade and Industry yesterday?

The meeting I had with the STUC on the day in question discussed steel and the 10-year investment programme. I was not able then to give complete details of every minor investment that the British Steel Corporation proposed over the next 10 years, and I could not do so today. But I was able later to announce that the BSC plan includes a 25 per cent. increase in steel-making capacity in Scotland——

Over the 10 years?

Yes—whereas during the five and a half years the previous Government were in office the increase was only 0·2 per cent.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent discussions he has had with the Scottish Economic Planning Council on the Scottish economy.

I presume that the hon. Gentleman is referring to the Scottish Economic Council of which I am chairman. The Scottish economy is regularly discussed at council meetings, the most recent occasion being on 9th February.

Does not the Secretary of State recall that there have been over 100,000 redundancies in Scotland since he took office? Has he nothing better to say than simply that things are under discussion?

The hon. Gentleman is on a completely wrong point, because there were also many redundancies under his Government. One of the criticisms has been that modernisation did not take place as fast as it should have done in previous years. Modernisation must mean redundancies. The important point is whether there are job losses or job gains. I am glad to say that in the period when I was a Minister in the previous Conservative Government——

What about this one?

I am coming to that. When I was a Minister in the previous Conservative Government the gains considerably exceeded the losses in jobs, though there were redundancies. That has not happened on this occasion, but we are now fortunately seeing a brighter future and I hope that we can attain what we attained before.

Why does not the right hon. Gentleman set up a proper Scottish development authority? Why does he not follow the Norwegian example and take more from the oil companies and finance the authority partly from those royalties?

For the simple reason that if it is a proper authority which has powers and money to spend I cannot set it up. That would have to be done by a Bill passed by Parliament, and time would have to be found for it. I want to act quickly. It is only a year and a half since the first oil was found in Scotland in commercial quantities. I intend to act quickly, and I have acted quickly. That is why the Scottish Petroleum Office was set up as quickly, and it will be acting very soon.

The Secretary of State acted quickly when he took office, and that action led to massive redundancies and a change in Government policy. Is it not late, two years after the event, to be saying that he is now taking action to create more jobs?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what guidance is extended to local authorities carrying out major housing improvement schemes in their area in respect of minimising the inconvenience and discomfort for the sitting tenants.

The desirability of close consultation with tenants is emphasised in our discussions with local authorities about house improvement.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that as regards many local authority housing schemes there is a great deal of friction between the authority and the tenant and that many tenants who have carried out improvements of their own do not like a uniform or standard improvement scheme? I recognise and appreciate that local authorities muss carry out these improvements speedily, but cannot the Minister do anything to avoid the friction which arises between the two parties?

I greatly appreciate what the hon. Gentleman says. He is right in saying that this is a major problem in some improvement schemes. I will consider whether there is any further guidance which it would be helpful for me to give local authorities. In general this is a difficult problem which each local authority must be aware of and deal with in its own way. I will certainly give local authorities what help I can to enable them to he as understanding as they can.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he is now taking to assist in creating job opportunities for school leavers in Scotland.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer given on 31st January to a similar question by the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton).—[Vol. 849, c. 1331–33.]

That answer smacks of complacency, because the Under-Secretary must know that 9,692 young people under the age of 18 are unemployed in Scotland. Will he tell us how many of them are male and how many female? As there is a great priority here, because the hopes and expectations of young people have been dashed, we are entitled to expect the Government to treat the matter with priority.

This is indeed a serious and worrying problem. The hon. Gentleman will no doubt be as glad as I am that the figure he quoted of 9,692 compares with the figure of 12,438 at the same time last year. I am determined that anything that can be done to reduce this serious problem shall be done. We have taken massive steps to get expansion going in the economy, to achieve the best outlook there can be for young people.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many local authority housing approvals were given in 1969, 1970, 1971 and 1972.

The numbers are 26,806 in 1969, 17,061 in 1970, 19,376 in 1971 and 23,489 in 1972.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on reversing the appalling trend of a few years ago. Will he complete the picture by telling the House how many houses have been improved with improvement grants and how many have been built privately?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. It is indeed satisfactory that we have at last reversed the falling trend which was causing great concern. My hon. Friend will be glad to know that the private house completion programme was at its highest level at 11,835 last year and that in 1972 no fewer than 49,000 houses were given approval for improvements.

The figure for the early part of 1972 must have been highly inflated because of the special inducements in the 1972 Act. What was the rate of approvals during the second half of 1972?

I shall be glad to get those figures for the hon. Gentleman. He is right to say that the special provisions of the Housing Finance Act attracted a large number of authorities to put in submissions quickly, as we intended they should. What is important is that submissions were put in and that councils are getting down to working upon improving houses.

Surely the Under-Secretary is aware that he has already given the figure of the number of houses submitted for approval by local authorities in the fourth quarter of 1972 and that it dropped to the lowest ever at 1,056. What Scotland is concerned about is a steady attack upon vile housing conditions, but we are not getting such an attack from the Government.

I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman. Local authorities know that they have every encouragement—financial and in every respect—from the Government to build as many houses as they can for their needs. If the right hon. Gentleman knows of any authorities which are being held back by the present Government's policies, he will no doubt let me know; but there are not any.

Does my hon. Friend agree that in this sector, as in every other, we must do much better than simply reverse the deplorable record of the previous Government?

I agree. It is important that we provide homes of a more modern standard for the people of Scotland. There are various ways of doing this—local authorities, the Scottish Special Housing Association, private building and improvements. We are tackling every one of these categories and are having a considerable measure of success in putting matters right.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many appeals against fair rents determined by the rent officers have been considered by the Glasgow Rent Assessment Committee in the last annual period for which figures are available; and in how many of these cases the committee increased, reduced or did not alter the rent officers' determination of rent.

Three hundred and forty references were dealt with during 1972 by the Glasgow Rent Assessment Committee. In 292 cases the committee determined fair rents higher than the rents registered by the rent officer, in eight cases they were lower, and in 40 cases the registered rents were confirmed.

Do not these figures demonstrate clearly why a large number of tenants in Glasgow are reluctant to appeal to this rent assessment committee, which was established under the 1965 Act to be an impartial body to determine appeals by landlords and tenants? Is my hon. Friend aware that in the light of these figures all the people of Glasgow will be very glad indeed that the Secretary of State is to inquire into the Glasgow committee?

I know of my hon. Friend's very great concern with this problem. This system was set up by the previous Government some years ago and it has carried on unchanged from that time. I sympathise with the problems which are caused for some people when they face, after many years of very low rents, a steep increase. However, we now have for the first time rent allowance schemes which can protect tenants on low incomes. We have recently proposed to improve the rent allowance system substantially.

I sympathise with the point expressed by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward Taylor), but does not the Minister agree that the situation will be further aggravated because under the new Act there is no longer any certificate of qualification for houses?

I do not think that that will aggravate the situation. Under the new Act we have, for the first time, rent allowances. The fact that they did not exist before created considerable hardship—something which I should have thought the Labour Government would have thought of at the time.

In this inquiry, with particular reference to the Western Heritable houses, will the hon. Gentleman get the figures for the relationship between rents fixed by rent assessment committees and rateable values, which in the Western Heritable cases are three to one, which seems to be out of line with decisions else- where in Scotland? Is not the real answer in the Western Heritable cases, which affect the hon. Gentleman as well as myself, that these houses should be treated exactly the same as local authority houses—a proposition which the Government have refused to implement?

I have corresponded with the hon. Gentleman about this difficult problem. These are not local authority houses. They are being treated in exactly the manner laid down by the Labour Government of which the hon. Gentleman was a member. What is important is that we should try to minimise any hardship to individuals; and this we have done for the first time in the Housing Finance Act 1972.

I am glad the Under-Secretary has confirmed that a committee of inquiry is to be set up into the workings of the Glasgow Rent Assessment Committee. I hope that he will include other rent assessment committees. Does he recall that when I asked a year ago for a public inquiry into the working of rent assessment committees, in view of the background of bad decisions, he nearly jumped out of his skin with indignation that anyone would suggest that these committees were dominated by landlords and other people interested in high rents?

The hon. Gentleman would be well advised to look at the facts of the case. He will find that the personnel composing the rent assessment committees is exactly as it was under his Government who set them up. The Labour Government laid down—I think wisely—that Governments would not have the right to interfere with levels of rent established by the committees.

Surely the Under-Secretary appreciates that we have had experience of this problem since the first Act went on to the Statute Book and that when we discussed this matter in detail on the last Financial Provisions Act his Government—he was the spokesman—refused to change the personnel of the committee and refused to treat these houses as local authority houses, because they were subsidised by the Government. The hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward Taylor) gave us no support then.

It would be a great pity if the right hon. Gentleman now expected us to change the people whom he appointed to these committees. If he regrets what he did, he will no doubt say why. As for treating these houses as local authority houses, they are not local authority houses and are therefore covered by the perfectly normal Statutes for such houses as they are.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that Glenrothes is the only new town in Scotland without any Civil Service employment of a non-industrial nature; and what steps he intends to take to change this situation.

Glenrothes does in fact have a small element of non-industrial Civil Service employment though I am aware that it has not so far attracted large projects. The facilities which the new town can offer in this field are borne fully in mind when locations for new or transferred Government works are being decided.

Is the right hon. Gentleman now studying the Hardman Report, which I understand is already in the Government's hands? Will he take into account the needs of East Scotland, particularly Glenrothes, although there has been considerable pressure from the West and Glasgow? In particular there is a strong case for getting population out of Glasgow rather than into Glasgow. Will the right hon. Gentleman bear this in mind when he considers the Hardman Report?

The Government will in due course be considering that report fully. I am very much aware of the needs of new towns as well as of Glasgow. I have called a meeting for this coming Friday with the three chairmen of new towns which are currently receiving Government establishments and with the Lord Provost of Glasgow, so that we can compare experience on how best to receive the key workers who have to move. I have considerable experience, because I was a member of the Conservative Government involved in the decision to move the National Savings Bank to Glasgow.

As the Hardman Report is now available, what is the Secretary of State doing to make sure that the maximum number of Civil Service jobs come to Scotland? He will no doubt be able to use all the experience he has acquired in the past, but will he tell us what he is doing at the moment?

As I have said, the Hardman Report will be considered. I am doing all I can to point out the attractions of Scotland as a location for these offices. Scotland has received more than one-fifth of the work dispersed from London, and it is receiving more than two-fifths of the work currently awaiting dispersal. Because of the success of what is happening, I am pressing for more such offices to move to and be set up in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to review the working of the Social Work (Scotland) Act.

The working of the Act is kept under continuous review. The Act itself provides a sound basis for the development of the social work services, which are expanding rapidly.

Will the Minister seriously reconsider that reply and consider the setting up of a committee of inquiry to review in depth the working of the Act? Social workers in all spheres are showing serious concern about the working of the Act and the need to review it against the background of experience since 1969.

The kind of inquiry or review that the hon. Gentleman suggests is not necessarily appropriate, in so far as we are keeping an eye on it all the time, and proposals by the various social work authorities are under consideration for the future. There are certain deficiencies but I hope that in time and with experience we shall get these right.

Has my hon. Friend received representations that some sections of the social work departments may not be receiving the same amount of consideration as others because of their size?

I accept that there are certain problems, for example the question of more effective supervision and the provision of residential facilities, particularly for younger people. We have identified these problems and we hope to deal with them as we go along.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stirling and Falkirk Burghs (Mr. Ewing) is asking for something wider than simply looking at training and the provision of facilities for young people. Would it be possible for the Social Work Services Group to make a wide study of how the new services are working as against the old services and to publish the results?

As I said earlier, this is a continuing process. Nobody, particularly anybody within the Social Work Services Group, is complacent about what is happening. Certain aspects could be improved, but this is better done on a continuing basis rather than specifically.

Pending any possible review of the working of the Act, does the Under-Secretary agree that the same importance should attach to the work of local authority social work committees and their directors as attaches to education committees? If so, will he emphasise that fact to the local authorities?

I certainly accept that this aspect of local authority work is one of the most important. In our dealings with local authorities we shall give the emphasis that we believe is needed to bring this home.

During his continuous review, will my hon. Friend pay special regard to the adequacy of provision of accommodation and care for mentally handicapped children?

Yes, indeed. That is very important. It is encouraging that between 1970 and 1971 there has been an increase of 30 per cent. in the number of handicapped people who have received help from social work departments. That is one example of the good work that the social work departments are doing.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, in the light of the latest information on employment trends and the attraction of industry, he will make a statement on the future development of the Scottish economy.

As I told the hon. Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Sillars) on 13th December, there has in recent months been a marked improvement in the economic outlook for Scotland. Oil developments in the North Sea and our entry to the EEC are particular reasons for optimism. But in the longer term the health of the Scottish economy will be largely determined by the success of our counter-inflation measures.

Is the Secretary of State aware that one cause of pronounced pessimism will be the withdrawal of the regional employment premium in 1974, with a loss to the Scottish economy of £40 million a year? How is the Scottish economy supposed to sustain the sudden loss of £40 million?

There are differing opinions about the usefulness of that particular measure—[HON. MEMBERS: "Rubbish."] I hear that, too, in Scotland, but the regional employment premium is not due to be phased out until September 1974. The Government have introduced this year a new and very successful combination of incentives, and we shall be continuing to watch for what is likely to be most needed as September 1974 approaches.

Would it not be a good idea for Scottish Labour Members of Parliament to be represented in the European Parliament and to back up their Conservative colleagues in trying to get money for Scotland from the EEC regional programme?

That is a very relevant question. It is one not for me but for the Labour Party.

As the right hon. Gentleman has told us that he is apprised of the employment prospects in Scotland and is optimistic, will he say what the reduction in unemployment is likely to be in the next two or three months?

I was speaking of the economic situation when I said in my original answer that the signs were optimistic. I have already said today, and I repeat, that the unemployment trend has been favourable since last March, and I hope that it will continue to be.

Has my right hon. Friend established from the Common Market whether, in the event of our wanting to discontinue REP, the Common Market will permit us to do so?

That is one point that would have to be considered—whether it would be appropriate. What we have already announced certainly is consistent with our Common Market obligations.

Will the Secretary of State take us into his confidence and tell us who, or which body, in Scotland is in favour of the withdrawal of REP?

Not without notice. [HON. MEMBERS: "Shame."] Opposition Members are simply playing politics.

Name one body.

If hon. Gentlemen opposite are in touch with people in industry and commerce in Scotland and those who are thinking of moving in, they will know that opinions have been expressed that that £40 million could be spent much more beneficially in other ways.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the average price of an acre of building land in Scotland, and in Glasgow in particular, in June 1970 and for the latest available date.

This information is not available, as these particular statistics have never been collected or kept.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that that is a very disappointing answer? One is getting very disturbed at the lack of information on these matters concerning Scotland. Figures exist for England and Wales. May I tell the Minister——

No.

The hon. Member may not tell the Minister. He may ask a question.

Can I put it to the Minister that——

No.

Order. The usual phrase is "Is the Minister aware?".

The trouble is that one is so disgusted at the lack of information. Is the Minister aware that it is rather distressing that these figures are not available for Scotland when they are available for England and Wales? Is he further aware that I checked only an hour ago with my local authority and with a leading private builder who both told me that on a very conservative estimate the figures for land prices have gone up by at least 75 per cent.? I am not talking about the recent extortionate figure in Aberdeen. Does not the Minister agree that it is time the Government stopped misleading this House and the country about these prices?

The hon. Gentleman should beware of expecting too much from a figure of the sort he has mentioned. It would depend very much on what land it was, what average was taken, whether the land was for the building of houses or for industrial building, whether it included land in city centre sites and so on. I do not think such a figure would be very meaningful. However, the question of land prices causes great concern to many people. It is interesting to note that there have not in fact been significant increases in site values as a proportion of the average price of a new house in Scotland over the past five years. We will keep this matter under very careful review.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell the House how many millionaires have been created in Scotland recently as a result of land speculation? If he does not know, will he find out and then tell the House?

If I were able to find out how to become a millionaire, I probably would not still be here.

Will the Minister conduct an urgent review to establish the facts?

I do not think that a review of land prices as such would be of value, but I do think that this is something that should be watched very carefully to make sure that land prices do not form an increased part of the price of new homes.

Mr. Strang.

In view of the last answer——

Order.

Order. I will call the right hon. Gentleman, but I deprecate supplementary questions from two Members from the Opposition Front Bench on one Question. Mr. Ross.

No; never mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the Government's overall policy towards the need to protect the coast and countryside from damage by the oil industry; and if he will make particular reference to the discussions he has had with Shetland County Council on this matter.

Our objective is to achieve the right balance between develepment and conservation, and the existing planning machinery properly used ought to do this. As my right hon. Friend has announced, he has commissioned a study of the coast to be carried out jointly by the Countryside Commission for Scotland, the Nature Conservancy and his Department's consultant landscape architect. I and my officials have discussed with Shetland County Council a number of major issues, but not specifically the protection of the coast and countryside.

Does the Minister accept that with proper planning there need be no conflict between maximising the number of oil jobs on the Scottish mainland and preserving our beautiful countryside? The people of Scotland are not prepared to see their environment irreparably damaged by irresponsible bargains struck between land speculators and oil supply companies. For that reason, many of us are in sympathy with the proposals put forward by Shetland County Council.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he has said. I do not think I will comment on the proposals by Shetland County Council at this stage as they may possibly come before a parliamentary commission and that would be the time for them to be discussed. But I agree with the hon. Member, and I have been emphasising this frequently to local planning authorities in recent months, that they have controls or powers to ensure that only what they regard as right developments take place in their areas. I agree with the hon. Member that they have powers to prevent irresponsible development if it should be proposed.

It is well known that Shetland County Council decided to promote an order some time ago and we are grateful to the Scottish Office for such assistance as it has given in this matter. Will it be borne in mind, however, that though it is absolutely essential to control developments—and of course we wish to protect the environment and the social fabric of the islands—those of us who for a long time have sought to have alternative sources of employment do not want it to be thought that we are not aware that these developments might provide useful employment for young school leavers, for instance, who at the moment have to move away from the islands altogether, both Orkney and Shetland, to get work?

I am thoroughly in sympathy with what the right hon. Gentleman says. It is most important that we should not hold up developments of the right kind. In my opinion the planning powers which are available are adequate to ensure that no development which would be harmful takes place if a local planning authority does not wish it to do so.

Would my hon. Friend agree also that there is need for an overall view, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State showed by instituting the overall study to be undertaken by the Countryside Commission and the Nature Conservancy? This study is very urgent. Can my hon. Friend give any indication when it will report?

It is not envisaged that a report as such will be produced. The two bodies are trying to do a survey of the facts of the case and will then give advice on them which my right hon. Friend and all concerned will consider.

Can the Minister say that the Secretary of State will not hold up any applications for planning permission which may be forthcoming, particularly one which may come from my constituency in the case of Chicago Bridge Company in connection with the proposed development at Dunnett Bay? Would that be considered in the expectation of receiving the results of the survey to which the hon. Gentleman has referred?

My right hon. Friend has been most anxious at all times not to hold up planning decisions of this sort. Indeed, he has a very successful record in this respect because of the number of very swift planning decisions that have been taken. I will certainly draw my right hon. Friend's attention to what the hon. Gentleman has said. We certainly would not wish to hold up any decision in his constituency.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will instruct the Highlands and Islands Development Board to secure for the benefit of the public such fishing rights as may be disposed of within its area by the North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board in pursuance of its policy of divorcing itself of responsibility for activities not directly related to its own function of generating and distributing electricity.

This may become a matter for discussion with the board, but there is no situation at present appropriate for this.

The Minister will be aware that the hydro board sold fishings in Inverness-shire and is thinking of doing so in Ross and Cromarty. This would represent an occasion for such discussions. Does the hon. Gentleman by any chance remember the Hunter Report? I know that it was a very long time ago but clearly the previous Secretary of State lost it. Has the present Secretary of State found it again? If so, when is action proposed? Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will take the opportunity of assuring us in this connection that the appointment of Sir Douglas Haddow has not presaged the merger of the boards.

The hon. Gentleman should be careful about his facts. I know there has been talk about waters in Ross and Cromarty which the hydro board controls but so far there have been no proposals by the board concerning the future of these waters. That must be remembered before one takes it any further.

What about the other part of the question?

I am sorry I did not answer the point concerning the Hunter Report. I would refer the hon. Gentleman to a very good White Paper which the present Government produced.

Surely the Minister agrees that there is need to make more of our fishings in the Highlands available to local people and tourists. In view of the widespread resentment towards the hydro board's policy of selling off fishing rights to exclusive, private, wealthy interests, will the hon. Gentleman agree to have another look at this whole vexed issue?

I look forward to the lion. Gentleman's support of our White Paper concerning the future of fishings in Scotland, but I also note with interest his proposals about the nationalisation of croft land and sporting rights and fishings. What I would ask him to bear in mind is that it was his right hon. Friend who gave approval to the disposal of fishings by the board.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent plans have been submitted to him for the development of oil refineries in Scotland.

I have recently received, through Ayr County Council, an application by Oil Refining Services International (ORSI) Ltd. to build a refinary at Hunterston of an ultimate capacity of 24 million tons per annum, with a marine oil terminal to accommodate four tankers.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask him whether he would not agree that it would be invaluable in the case of development of oil refineries in Scotland to undertake an impact survey when these refineries are proposed to see what effects such developments would have on the totality of the environment? Will he consult his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to be sure, in the case of these very speculative ventures, that money is very well tied up, and will he have an overall look at the prospects for Hunterston, not only in the light of the narrow oil refining prospects?

I assure the hon. Gentleman on the latter point that such proposals are looked at from the point of view of Scotland as a whole. This is a planning matter. Therefore, I cannot comment on the merits of particular proposals. Under the planning Acts all considerations are taken into account. There are opportunities for objectors, and if there is disagreement the final decision must come to me to be taken in a quasi-judicial capacity.

Is my right hon. Friend able to tell the House what would be the cost to the taxpayer in investment grants and subventions from the Industrial Development Executive for the ORSI plan and how many jobs would thereby be created?

Not without notice, though I recognise that this is an important point. The kind of incentives and assistance which are now available under the Scottish Industrial Development Office are extremely helpful and not wasteful in their effects.

This is a very important issue. Does the planning application contain an indication of the source of the oil that ORSI would refine if planning permission were given? For instance, would it be Gulf or North Sea Oil? This is very important.

I was asked originally what recent plans had been submitted to me for the development of oil refineries in Scotland. I cannot give the hon. Gentleman all the detailed information, but I will try to do so if he cares to write to me about it.

Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that this question might transcend the more limited question of the planning Acts as it is of such importance for Scotland and that it should be decided at his level, not on the basis of local considerations? Does he consider that Hunterston might be so important to Scotland over the years that this matter cannot be left to local considerations and that national considerations must transcend everything else?

The hon. Gentleman is entirely right. He is echoing exactly my planning decision of over two years ago when I decided to open Hunterston for industrial development but said that each individual project must be submitted to the Secretary of State for approval. I think that covers the very point that the hon. Gentleman made.

Will my right hon. Friend tell the House how the siting of an oil refinery at Hunterston would be likely to affect BP's plans for the extension of its refinery at Grangemouth?

No. I have noted some reports in the Press about it. My hon. Friend will have to consult the company about these plans.

First, bearing in mind that the Secretary of State has already laid down fairly detailed principles relating to developments at Hunterston, is it not true that further inquiries should not take so long? Secondly, and probably more important, does he realise that when his hon. Friend the Member for South Angus (Mr. Bruce-Gardyne) asked what the grants would amount to, he replied, "Not without notice"? May I take it that he will state the actual amount of grants in any individual case?

The right hon. Gentleman knows that if I were asked a particular question I should have to consider how much was public and how much was private information. It has always been the practice of Governments regarding commercial information and grants not to reveal them. Of course, I should reveal to the House as much as was proper to be disclosed.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he has received a copy of the report "The Training of Staff for Centres for the Mentally Handicapped"; and what action he proposes to take on its recommendations.

Yes, Sir. The report was published on 7th February and my right hon. Friend is now seeking the views of the bodies concerned on its recommendations. He will decide what action to take when he has received and considered them.

Does the Under-Secretary agree that this is a most important report, particularly the opening conclusions which indicate that we should abolish the category of children regarded as ineducable and that we should transfer responsibility for day care centres to education authorities? This is an important basic recommendation. I hope that the Government will come to a conclusion on it fairly soon.

This is an important report. I should like to pay tribute to Mr. Melville, the director of education in the hon. Gentleman's constituency, who chaired the committee, and his colleagues. I do not think that the hon. Gentleman would expect me at this stage to comment on detailed recommendations—not until we have received representations and views from the various bodies involved.

Are not paragraphs 59 and 60, which refer to changing the position in law of the ineducable child, at the heart of the report? Unless the Government indicate that they will legislate or will encourage legislation the report will not get very far.

I ask the hon. Gentleman to bear in mind that the report was published only a fortnight ago. It is far too early to come to a conclusion on it. We must consider people's views on it and come to a conclusion in the proper way.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now make a further statement on developments at Hunterston.

I have nothing to add to my reply to the hon. Gentleman on 31st January.—[Vol. 849, c. 1345–6.]

That is a very disappointing reply. Does the Secretary of State realise that the people of Scotland are fed up with his indecision and procrastination on these industrial developments at Hunterston? Is it not time that he carried out his promise and resigned as Secretary of State for Scotland?

Certainly not over this subject. I think that, with the sole exception of the hon. Gentleman, on the whole I have received congratulations in Scotland because over two years ago I took the decision to which I referred of opening up Hunterston for industrial development of a valuable kind for Scotland. I cannot do anything at the moment because these applications have not been properly processed. The applications before me are still subject to their promoters wanting to change them.

Will my right hon. Friend tell us what has happened to the report of the Hunterston Development Corporation which we are also anxious to see?

I understand that this study has now been completed. When it has been submitted, it is likely to be published after the company has seen it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the number of deaths from suicide in each of the last five years; and how this compares with the rate in England and in other European nations.

Deaths in Scotland from suicide and self-inflicted injury in each of the years 1967 to 1971 numbered 391, 373, 362, 397 and 378, respectively.

I thank the Minister for revealing those interesting figures. They indicate that we are at the bottom of the European suicide league. Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the very effective voluntary organisations with very laudable objects—for example the Telephone Samaritans, who work unceasingly and talk people out of taking their lives? To what extent do the Department or the local authorities liaise with these excellent people actively or financially, or both?

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on putting this Question, which has elicited a most interesting statistic about the position of Scotland in the European league. I join him in paying tribute to the work done by the Telephone Samaritans. I assure him that there is very good liaison between the Telephone Samaritans and the social work departments in different areas. We pay a grant to the Telephone Samaritans which helps to encourage their development and the training of volunteers in a very important aspect of voluntary work.

Does my hon. Friend agree that these figures reflect great credit on the present administration?

It is interesting that the figures for 1971, the first full year of the present Tory Government, show an improvement on those for the previous year. I go even further and point out that they demonstrate the great pleasantness of living in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what estimate he has made of the extra amount of water which will be required in Scotland during the next 10 years as a result of the North Sea oil development.

The water boards have plans to meet known needs and most of the boards have ample resources on which they can draw to meet future needs. The North Sea Oil Development Committee will be co-ordinating the development of this and all other infrastructure services for oil-based projects. It is not yet possible to make firm estimates for the new oil industry as much as 10 years ahead.

In view of the present acute water shortage in various parts of Scotland, does my hon. Friend agree that there is doubt about whether the new regional authorities as recently amended will have adequate resources to provide the water we need? May not there be a need for a national water resource survey?

The precise nature of future water organisation is a matter to which we shall come in our deliberations in a certain Standing Committee with which my hon. Friend may be familiar. I shall not cover that now. The recent shortages in some areas have been due to the exceptionally low rainfall in certain areas. However, throughout most of Scotland there are ample supplies and reserves and I am confident that water boards have plans in hand to make adequate use of these.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is satisfied with the present arrangements for the transferring from the State hospital at Carstairs of patients who need further treatment before release; and whether he will set aside a semi-custodial wing in an existing hospital to care for such patients.

The present arrangements work well in most cases but a few patients, in the absence of suitable vacancies, have been awaiting transfer for fairly long periods, especially to mental deficiency hospitals. I do not think such patients should be transferred to a custodial wing in a single hospital. They are more appropriately catered for by medium security provision in National Health Service hospitals where they can be rehabilitated nearer their homes.

May I first express my regret that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Education is not here to answer this Question? I am sure we all hope that he will soon be back with us. Will my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Home Affairs and Agriculture pass on to him my view that there is a serious problem here at the moment? I thank my hon. Friend for his answer.

I am grateful for my hon. Friend's interest in this matter, and I will pass his condolences to my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Education. This is a difficult problem. We are worried about these delays. In certain hospital board areas—for example, in the West region—greater provision is being made to meet the problem.

Will the hon. Gentleman ask his colleague the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Education to look at the length of time spent by patients in Carstairs, and perhaps he will look at the proposition that the imposition of unlimited time commitment of patients might be leading to treatment being less successful?

This is a rather different question. I shall take note of it and look into it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what machinery he has established in the Scottish Office to implement the control function of the Price Commission.

None, Sir. The need for such machinery is for the commission to assess.

How is it that the Secretary of State for Employment can reveal that he has the nucleus of the proposed Pay Board when there is no sign of an embryo Price Commission?

The Price Commission is not the direct responsibility of my right hon. Friend.

Or of anyone else.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has for offering reinstatement and full compensation for wrongful dismissal to teachers who were dismissed from their employment for failure to register with the General Teaching Council, following the judgment of the Court of Session that his predecessor was acting ultra vires in changing the conditions of employment of teachers who already possessed the recognised qualification to teach.

I have lodged an appeal and I am advised that until it has been decided the requirements concerning registration remain in force. Considerations of the kind which my hon. Friend has mentioned do not therefore arise at the moment.

Now that the Court of Session has decided that the right hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross) was acting entirely improperly in requiring local authorities unilaterally to change the conditions of employment of experienced teachers in their employ, surely it is time that the Scottish Education Department stopped this witch-hunt against a small minority of teachers, recognised that they have been improperly dismissed from their employment and granted them the compensation to which they are due.

I understand the feelings actuating my hon. Friend's remarks. However, Governments have seen it as their duty whenever doubt has been thrown by a court decision upon the interpretation of a Statute to have the decision tested by taking it to a higher judicial authority, in this case the Inner House of the Court of Session. That is what I have felt it right to do.

How many teachers were dismissed as a result? Will my right hon. Friend also find out, if he cannot say now, how many have left the profession altogether and how many have emigrated to teach in schools abroad?

I could not give those figures without notice. I will make inquiries and let my hon. Friend know.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of those replies, I beg to give notice that I will seek to raise the matter at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will arrange to meet local authorities, affected by future closures in the steel industry, to discuss his plans for their future.

In the White Paper on steel—Cmnd. 5226—we announced the setting up of a special reconstruction team under the direction of the Scottish Economic Planning Board, which will be responsible for identifying the measures needed to deal with the effects of the steel rationalisation programme. This important work will be under the supervision of my noble Friend the Minister of State. I have no doubt that in the course of its work the team will meet and consult the local authorities affected.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply. In the plans for the future of the steel industry it is said that prospective job losses in Scotland are not so highly concentrated in particular places. To those hon. Members who represent steel constituencies, this seems patently untrue. They are concentrated in particular communities. We hope that the Secretary of State will meet the local authorities and discuss with them the future of their areas.

I expect that my noble Friend will be doing very much what the hon. Gentleman has suggested. As for the impact of job losses, they are really causing great concern for certain areas. But if the hon. Gentleman likes to compare them with those in other parts of the United Kingdom, especially Wales, I think he will agree that it is fair to say that they are not so highly concentrated in Scotland as they are in some other areas.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will list those local authorities still refusing to implement the Housing Finance Act.

Alloa, Clyde-hank, Cowdenbeath, Cumbernauld and Saltcoats.

Is it not a fact that a recent survey undertaken by Glasgow Corporation showed that of all its municipal tenants receiving rent rebates 83 per cent. would now receive more with the higher needs allowances under the Government scheme than previously? Is not that even more true of Clydebank and the other places which my right hon. Friend has mentioned? Unless Clydebank councillors make up their minds quickly to pay the fine, has not the time come for my right hon. Friend to exercise his authority and take over the running of the housing department as the law requires?

Glasgow is in fact carrying out the Act. But I saw the report in the Glasgow Herald indicating that estimates by Glasgow Corporation have shown that 83 per cent. of tenants at present receiving rebate will be better off when the new needs allowance comes into operation at the end of April. As regards Clydebank, I repeat that the council there is taking advantage of its tenants. For example, a family with two children and an income of £20 a week now pay a rent of £1·35. Under the Act that same family would have to pay only 6p a week.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that many hon. Members on the Opposition benches reckon that it takes great political courage on the part of Labour-controlled authorities to implement an objectionable Tory housing Act? Recognising that, would not it be better if the right hon. Gentleman used the procedure, since he wants to prove to the community the benefits of the Act, to take over these housing powers? Would not that be better than using court procedures resulting in fines and the possibility of martyrdom?

I agree that for those whose political views are opposed to some of the provisions of the Act it requires courage to carry it out. I agree that those people are to be commended rather than those who are failing to carry out the law.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland why he has not yet sent a reply to Glasgow Corporation in respect of its proposals relating to selective schools.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has now sent his reply to Glasgow Corporation on its plans for the abolition of selective schools; and if he will make a statement.

I am continuing my consideration of the authority's proposals and I will announce my decision on them in due course.

These proposals have been with the Secretary of State since last October and they are basically similar to proposals lodged with the right hon. Gentleman no less than a year ago. Is not what we are witnessing here deliberate dilatoriness in breach of the right hon. Gentleman's statutory duty under the Education Act and a dishonest attempt to prevent the further extension of comprehensive education in Glasgow?

No, Sir. These are very important issues and they involve the future of many children in Glasgow. The organisation is complex. The proposals which have been put forward are complex. They need very careful study. I am also greatly concerned that there should be adequate consultation with the parents and others concerned.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether he has now accepted the principle of the abolition of selectivity as being quite definitely the overwhelming view of the elected representatives of the people of Glasgow in at least two elections? Is the right hon. Gentleman now suggesting that what is stopping his decision is that he is not happy about the rate of phase-out? If fie has accepted the principle and is merely concerned about the rate of phase-out, may we have an indication of the time for the phase-out of selective schools which he envisages being able to accept?

I said in my original reply that I would be announcing my decisions when I have taken them, and that is the position.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is satisfied with the co-ordination of his Department and of those bodies responsible for the development of Dyce airport; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. As announced in the Press on 2nd December 1972, Aberdeenshire Planning Committee has granted the Civil Aviation Authority planning permission in principle for new terminal and ancillary facilities at Dyce. I understand that work necessary to allow the operation of jet aircraft on regular scheduled services from April of this year is in hand.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Is he aware that the optimistic nature of that reply is not reflected on the ground and that there seems to be considerable delay in providing the terminal facilities at Dyce to meet the tremendous growth in traffic there which is expected this summer? Can he do as much as possible to expedite matters?

I will certainly do anything I can to expedite it, but I am not aware of there being any delay. There has been a full examination. If this confirms the original proposals of the Civil Aviation Authority there will be no delay; and if new or modified plans were to emerge they would be processed with the utmost speed. I agree that it is important to get a quick decision, but it is also important to get the right one.