asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he is proposing to introduce legislation to revise the bus licensing regulations; and broadly what form such revision will take.

Whenever parliamentary time permits.

As my right hon. Friend knows, this is a very important matter. I wonder whether the industries concerned will be satisfied with his reply. Has he any further statement to make?

My proposals have been fully discussed with the industries concerned. I think that they now understand the Government's viewpoint. I cannot add to what I have already said about finding a place in the parliamentary timetable: that is not really a matter for me.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the number of general improvement area schemes and the total number of houses included in these schemes which were completed during 1972.

There are at present 580 general improvement areas in England and Wales. Work was completed on a total of 7,217 dwellings in these schemes in 1972.

The hon. Gentleman's answer is unsatisfactory. Does he not agree that the position in the private rented sector is pitifully disappointing? Will he ensure that local authorities are given sufficient powers to ensure that a positive and imaginative approach can be pursued?

Naturally I am considering all these matters in our review of the improvement grant system. I am not sure that I would say that it is wholly unsatisfactory. There were three times as many completions in general improvement areas in 1972 as in 1971.

May I suggest to my hon. Friend that the schemes far from being unsatisfactory have transformed the whole area of industrial Yorkshire, particularly in the West Riding wool textile district? If we have any complaint it is that these schemes will terminate too soon.

I am grateful for what my hon. Friend says. There is no question of terminating the general idea of general improvement areas. I am most anxious to encourage them even more strongly than at present.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in the Brailsford Road general improvement area of my constituency the tenants of private landlords are absolutely fed up with the failure of private landlords to take part in the improvement of the area? They have come to me to complain about the lack of action of these private landlords. When the local authorities are taking action will the hon. Gentleman push private landlords to do the same?

The local authorities have many powers open to them. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman gets in touch with his corporation.

Will my hon. Friend consider the possibility of encouraging local authorities to carry out the external works more quickly in general improvement areas? That will give encouragement to the residents to take up the opportunities open to them and thus make it more likely that the schemes will be expedited.

I will certainly consider my hon. Friend's suggestion.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if, in view of increased building costs, he will now raise the maxima of both standard and discretionary improvement grants.

This is one of the matters I am considering in the course of my review of policy affecting older housing.

When my hon. Friend is considering this matter will he also take into account the fact that it is three-and-a-half years since the maximum grant level was established? It is calculated that in that time building costs have risen by over 50 per cent., thus making these grants rather unrealistic now.

I note what my hon. Friend says. I must point out, however, that the average limit for grants approved in 1972, even in the last quarter, was less than the maxima, although quite a proportion of grants were getting within £100 of it.

Is not the central idea probably to persuade private landlords to improve their property? The Minister said that local authorities have all the powers that they need. In that case will he recognise that when a local authority wishes to put a compulsory purchase order on property for the purpose of improving it, it can effectively do so only when he gives his permission? Will he from now onwards give his permission for such compulsory purchase orders?

The right hon. Gentleman will not expect me to comment on any particular case that might in due course come before my right hon. Friend for decision. I repeat what I said to the hon. Member for Manchester, Ardwick (Mr. Kaufman), that local authorities have considerable powers.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he has received the comments of the Association of Public Health Inspectors on the effects of the payment of housing improvement grants; and if he will make a statement.

I am glad the association has welcomed the Government's drive to deal with the problems of un- satisfactory houses. I was pleased to receive its helpful memorandum, which I will study carefully in the course of my review of policy on older housing.

Does not the hon. Gentleman recognise the many pertinent and practical suggestions that the association makes, and the criticisms that it offers? What is the hon. Gentleman's attitude to extending the period for special 75 per cent. grants for improvement schemes in development areas and the linking up of a new and better standard of accommodation generally? Ought not one to relate to the other?

I welcome the idea of a better standard of accommodation. My right hon. Friends and I have made it clear that there is no question of extending the Housing Act beyond June 1974, which is already a 12-months' extension. I am considering the whole question of policy on older houses at present.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's replies, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will publish a White Paper on his longterm transport policy.

Not yet, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that decisions relating to new road building are being made inside his Department and that decisions relating to railway development and closures are being made by British Rail? There often appears to be no co-ordination between the two. Does not the Minister think that it is time we had a long-term co-ordinated transport policy over the next few years?

There is a co-ordinated transport policy. I do not believe that a White Paper is necessary to achieve it.

With or without a White Paper, can my right hon. Friend give the House an assurance that from every aspect, economic and otherwise, he will give proper regard to the overwhelming claim of the railways to have a real expansion programme and not a further whittling down on the Beeching model?

The whole question of the future rôle of the railways is now being examined very carefully by the railways themselves, in consultation with my Department.

Given the present state of confusion and uncertainty, does not the Minister realise that even a short-term statement on future policy would be welcome? Does not he recall his undertaking to me last July to consider publishing a White Paper on railway finances? Is not he aware that the present policy of piecemeal financial solution is wholly unsatisfactory and unsettling for the industry?

I am conscious of the need to produce, as soon as possible, a statement on the future role for the railways. That is what I intend to do. But as I have said to the hon. Gentleman before, I do not want to produce a lot of half-baked temporary answers. The present position of merely helping the railways on an ad hoc basis is not satisfactory. It must be brought to an end as soon as possible, but I do not want to be hurried. As for the hon. Gentleman's reference to the present confusions. I am not sure what he means, but I am not the cause of them.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that a simple statement from him such as "I believe in railways" would be a start? What estimate has his Department made of the amount of traffic suitable for a realistic and practicable transfer from road to rail?

As I have said before, this matter is now being subjected to an extensive examination. In answer to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, I am only too happy to oblige him. I do believe in railways—but not tomorrow.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he is satisfied that Great Britain's motorway service areas compare favourably with service areas in other Common Market countries; and whether he will make a statement.

Some of the service areas I visited recently in France, Germany and Switzerland were undoubtedly attractive. I shall shortly be visiting further representative service areas in England in order to acquaint myself more closely with the facilities they provide and the standard these facilities achieve, particularly in the catering field. These visits will be followed by joint talks with the operators to see what improvements can usefully be sought.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Will he confirm that some of Britain's motorway service areas, including some on the M1, are amongst the worst in Western Europe? Is not there a serious safety point here, in that even when they are tired drivers will not stop at these areas because they consider that they get neither adequate refreshment nor rest?

Our best service areas are amongst the best in Europe, though of course there are many which are not as good. There are safety aspects to consider, and I am determined, with the operators, to improve the standards of service areas so that they compare favourably with the best in Europe.

Has my hon. Friend considered the provision of certain areas where drivers can pull off motorways for a rest without necessarily having refreshment?

I am interested in the provision of picnic and toilet areas which do not have the full provision of refreshment facilities. We are looking at this possibility.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will consider setting up an inquiry into the workings of the law on breathalyser tests, in view of the anomalies shown by recent cases.

No, Sir.

Has not it become clear that the procedure through which the police have to go is proving excessively complicated? Has my right hon. Friend noticed the large number of acquittals in recent months, largely on technical grounds? Does not he feel that an inquiry would be of some advantage to the community even if it took into account only the possibility of introducing random breath tests?

I shall consider the matter which my hon. Friend has raised, though questions of police enforcement are more for my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary.

When my right hon. Friend is considering these matters, will he consider whether some other form of test might also be used, such as that which existed before the breathalyser, where people are tested for their efficiency in carrying out certain functions? Is my right hon. Friend aware that the level of alcohol in the blood shown by a breathalyser will vary considerably from individual to individual?

I take due note of what my hon. Friend says, backed by his expert knowledge.

asked the Secretary of of State for the Environment when he proposes to continue with the exterior cleaning of the Palace of Westminster; and if he will make a statement.

I hope shortly to submit proposals to the appropriate authorities of the two Houses. We now have a successful method of cleaning by using a dry grit "mini-blast" and an elastic filler on cracks, open joints and stubborn tarry patches, followed by overall treatment of the surface with fine sprays of water and bristle and phosphor bronze brushes.

I thank my hon. Friend for that extremely technical and comprehensive reply. May I express the hope that it will be followed by quick action, using all the methods that he has described, so that this Palace may become a fitting complement to Whitehall?

I note my hon. Friend's views. As I say, I hope shortly to submit proposals to the appropriate authorities.

In view of the millions of pounds that we intend to spend on the car park in New Palace Yard and the architectural monstrosities on the other side of Bridge Street, will there be enough money left to titivate the Palace of Westminster? Cannot we leave well alone and allow the Palace of Westminster to grow old gracefully? If we do not, it will begin to look like the South Bank, and that would never do, would it?

It would be ungallant of me to draw attention to the hon. Member for Brixton (Mr. Lipton) in connection with growing old gracefully. However, he is anticipating a decision of this House by saying that we are necessarily proceeding with the new building.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on his request to local authorities to carry out a broader survey of derelict and despoiled land by the summer of 1974.

The new form of survey announced in the Department's Circular 7/73 has been prepared in close consultation with the local authority associations. This wider survey will be one of the first tasks of the new authorities and should provide the information they will need for pressing ahead with reclamation.

I welcome the broader survey that the Minister has ordered, but is not it likely to turn out to be more a technical exercise than one of reclamation? Will not there be considerable difficulty in getting qualified staff for the work, especially in view of the upheaval that local government reorganisation will cause? Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether the new survey will affect the Government's 10-year target for the clearance of all dereliction?

The survey covers more than derelict land for which a grant can be made. It will be useful if ever we wish to extend the grant facilities. As for the timing, it is true that some local authorities would have wished it to be a little later. However, the majority feel that they can undertake it in 1974.

Will my right hon. Friend pay special attention to the time scale of operations by opencast mineral operators? Is he aware that in some instances they tend to take a great deal of time in their cycle of operations, leaving land in a despoiled state for far too long?

This will come out in the survey. We are asking for information on land which has planning permission for mineral workings, where mineral workings have to be restored, and how soon they will be restored.

Will the right hon. Gentleman look at the regulations with a view to extending the limits of grant aid to public corporations other than local authorities? Is he aware that bodies like the National Coal Board could be involved in the work of clearing dereliction? I know that it can assist local authorities, but it always leaves them with the residue to find, which smaller authorities cannot afford.

Generally speaking, it is working well through local authorities. Local authorities acquire the derelict land and therefore have it when they have cleared it. I have not come across any serious problem where a local authority had not been able to deal with it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many representations he has now received asking for repeal of the Housing Finance Act.

Very few, Sir.

We are getting fed up making requests to a Minister who is so obdurate. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the result of the Act, as exemplified again yesterday on the Stock Exchange, has been that millions of pounds have been made by property sharks? Why is it that councillors who have carried out their election promises in keeping down rents can be surcharged and fined and at the same time hon. Gentlemen opposite, who voted for the Act and represent property companies, can line their own pockets? What kind of a carry-on is this?

Withdraw.

Look at the books on the Table there.

I think that the hon. Gentleman, even by his usual standards, goes a bit far this afternoon. There are two different views in different parts of the House about the merits of the Housing Finance Act. Whether hon. Members support it or not, I should think that there was overwhelming agreement by at least three-quarters of the House that when a law is passed by this House it is the duty of people to obey it.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Government are shortly to be approached by the big guns —the Association of Municipal Corporations backed by the TUC—over the further rent increases to be deliberately inflicted? Does he recognise that the Government are on highly vulnerable ground in proceeding with this proposal at a time when they are talking about curbing prices?

I hope that in his discussions on this topic the hon. Gentleman will draw attention to the fact that the increase in the needs allowance announced by my right hon. Friend will mean—before hon. Gentlemen opposite laugh too much—that all 1¼ million tenants entitled to a rebate or rent allowance will get an increase in their weekly rebate allowance of between 60p and 88p if their rent remains unchanged. Over 750,000 council tenants entitled to the rebate now whose rent goes up at the end of April will, after that rent increase, pay at least 30p less in rent than today.

Will my hon. Friend tell the House how many people will be getting the rebates and whether any representations have been made asking for their cancellation?

My hon. Friend may be astonished to learn that I have not seen any yet.

In the light of the Government's counter-inflation policy, will the hon. Gentleman indicate whether he is in a position to give us his latest assessment of the prospective average rent increases in both the private and public sectors from April 1973 to April 1974?

I cannot give those detailed figures. If the hon. Gentleman puts down a Question, naturally I will answer it. Even if rents are to go up in April this year, the result of the increase in the needs allowance means that nearly all those who are on low wages and unable to afford the increases in rent will be paying less rent.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will now publish the proposed Green Paper on the alternative patterns of the railway system in Scotland.

I have nothing to add to my reply to the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, West (Mr. James Johnson) on 14th February.—[Vol. 850, c. 343.]

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is acute anxiety in Scotland about possible cuts in the Scottish railway system? Will he take urgent steps to allay that anxiety? More particularly, since the announcement yesterday about North Sea oil revenues accruing to the Government in the next few years, will he reassess the situation in the light of possible further discoveries of North Sea oil and the consequent need for vastly improved transport facilities?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that the effect of North Sea oil supplies on rail communications will be borne in mind. There is no reason for him to fear savage rail cuts in Scotland. In due course proposals will be put before the House and the public and will be fully discussed.

Will my right hon. Friend keep in mind the need for rail communications with Northern Ireland through the West of Scotland?

Yes, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the railway system of Scotland is one of our great national assets, that it should be preserved to the fullest possible extent and utilised for the movement of goods free, gratis and for nothing, on much the same basis as the canal system of Central Europe? Will he bear in mind that we have to compete with European countries and that if we do not maintain a good transport system we shall ruin the outback of Scotland?

I should be the last to throw any doubt on the suggestion that the railways can play an enormously useful part in our transport system. Indeed they can, and do. I should remind the hon. Gentleman, in view of what he said, of the very slight cut there has been in route mileage under this administration.

The Minister frequently refers to the fact that he has not cut many miles of the railway system. Is he aware that every mile of railway that he has closed is against a decision that I or one of my predecessors in the Labour Government took to keep it open. Otherwise it would not have been there for him to close?

I do not think that the right lion. Gentleman wishes to invite me to compare again the route mileage cut by the Labour Government and that cut by this Government.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what representations he has had from the Electrical Association for Women on the subject of siting of electricity and gas meters and what replies he has sent.

The Electrical Association for Women wrote to my right hon. and learned Friend on 3rd February. Its main requests were that in the preparation of new legislation on building control consideration should be given to providing for the accessibility of meters and fuse boxes in houses and flats and for external meter reading facilities. In reply it has been assured that these points will be considered.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Is it not obvious that we should get things moving rather faster? Surely it is common sense that if a meter can he read from outside a house the people who are out at work all day will get accurate bills and old people will feel happier because they will know that a bogus meter reader has not come to "case the joint".

I accept my hon. Friend's points. The Electricity Council has recently reported an increasing popularity for outdoor electricity meter cupboards, and a significant number of new houses are now being equipped with them.

Will my hon. Friend consider a similar proposal for gas meters? Does he realise that the amount of time spent reading two meters separately is unwarranted, and that both gas and electricity meters should be placed so that they can be easily read together by meter readers outside the premises?

Yes. The considerations that I have mentioned apply mainly to gas meters.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he is satisfied with the operation of his policies for the clearance of derelict industrial buildings.

Yes, Sir.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his honest and illuminating reply. Is he aware that many of these areas with derelict industrial buildings are areas of rural rateable value? Does he realise that many local authorities are unable to take advantage of the Government's help to clear these industrial eyesores? Will he consider giving a 100 per cent. central Government grant for the removal of derelict industrial buildings?

In development areas there is the 85 per cent. grant, in derelict land and land clearance areas there is the 75 per cent. grant, and with the resources element that sometimes comes up to a 95 per cent. grant in particular areas. We have altered the rules on industrial buildings and include those as derelict if they really are derelict and come within the grant. I think that I have answered that pretty well without a brief.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the hesitation and dilatoriness with which he answered that question is paralleled only by his Department in tackling the serious problem of industrial dereliction? Will he look particularly at the North of England and the Midlands, and realise that many of these industrial buildings are not only ugly but are extremely dangerous to children? Many children are killed each year in these derelict buildings. Will he step up the programme of clearing these industrial sites?

Yes, but this depends entirely on the local authorities. I welcome any local authority which wishes to carry out such clearance. There is no obstruction whatever. It is open-ended, so far as they are concerned. I hope that the speed with which I have answered the hon. Gentleman now makes up for any dilatoriness at the start.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman recognise that in areas of poverty there is often a gap of years before local authorities can acquire land in order to remove derelict buildings? Does not he think that a grant to the nationalised industries would secure that the dereliction was removed before the sites upon which they stood were vacated?

I think that on the whole the programme for the clearance of derelict land is going well. About three times as much has been cleared this year as last. There has been a substantial increase. I do not think that anything further could be taken up, but this is open-ended so far as local authorities are concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what progress he has made with his review of the question of extending for a further period after 30th June 1973 the environmental assistance scheme "Operation Eyesore".

I have been studying the many representations I have received that this scheme should be extended. Many factors have to be taken into account, and I cannot yet say whether an extension will be possible.

I am pleased to hear that there is still hope for an extension of this scheme, but would not the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that 17 months is too short a period for it to be in operation, particularly in view of the extreme good that it does in industrial areas such as the West Riding? Is the Minister aware that if the scheme ends on the scheduled date it will end at a time when many councils and firms are just becoming aware of its existence, and that the ending of it will throw many men out of work?

They should not be taken by surprise at this stage of the operation. The scheme has been very successful, and there have been a large number of projects which I am sure have been valuable. The scheme was intended and planned to be a short-term boost, and I think that that has to be borne in mind. There are many demands upon public expenditure, and all these and other factors have to be taken into account.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that eyesores are not short-term, but continue throughout the ages? I support the hon. Member for Bradford, East (Mr. Edward Lyons) in his appeal to my right hon. and learned Friend to give favourable consideration to extending the period, particularly in the North-West, where the problem of blight, dereliction and eyesores is much greater than in other areas of the country. The area has been impoverished for many years, and any environmental assistance which my right hon. and learned Friend can continue will be more than appreciated.

I shall bear those factors in mind.

Is not the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that in the North-West in particular considerable advantage has been taken of this scheme? It took a number of authorities some while to realise the advantages that were available to them from carrying out its provisions, and an extension for 12 months would be massively welcomed.

I know that the scheme has been popular and successful, and those authorities that were quick off the mark have benefited considerably. We all appreciate the environmental considerations that have been raised, apart from the help that it has given to local employment, as the hon. Member for Bradford, East (Mr. Edward Lyons) said. At the same time, we have to bear in mind that there are many demands on public expenditure, not least in relation to homes and homelessness.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he can now announce the date when he expects the line of the North-East Lancashire motorway where it passes through Blackburn to be announced.

I would refer the right hon. Lady to the reply given to her similar Question on 14th February.—[Vol. 850, c. 1270–1.]

But cannot the right hon. Gentleman at least give me an approximate date so that my constituents know where they are? Will it be within the next three months?

I promise the right hon. Lady that I have no desire to keep her or her constituents in the dark. I shall gladly give her all the information that I can at the earliest possible moment. I should not wish to mislead her.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will review the position whereby drivers who, because of a medical condition, have to renew their driving licence annually are required to pay £1 for their annual licence as opposed to the normal procedure of paying £1 for a licence covering a three-year period.

Under my proposals for replacing the existing three-year licence by one valid to the age of 70, drivers will pay a "once-for-all" fee to cover all future full licences. Drivers with limited-period licences would then pay no more than other people.

I am sure that many disabled and medically sick drivers to whom I refer in the Question will be grateful to hear the Minister's reply. Having been taken by surprise by his answer, all that I can say to the right hon. Gentleman is that I am grateful for it.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, whom I am delighted to take by surprise.

Does not my right hon. Friend think that all drivers over 60 should take a medical test?

I know one or two under the age of 60 for whom a medical test would be just as appropriate.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what representations he has received to date from the Association of Optical Practitioners about eyesight testing and the introduction of driving licences for life; and what reply he has sent.

The association suggested higher eyesight standards and periodical tests. Neither would be likely to increase road safety.

is the right hon. Gentleman not going to take notice of the increasing evidence provided by the British School of Motoring and organisations such as the Association of Optical Practitioners that many people who are driving cannot see properly? Is he not aware that the driving test number plate requirement does not constitute what an optician considers to be normal vision? Does the right hon. Gentleman propose to continue giving all these people driving licences for life? Will he institute a trial period during which anybody involved in a road accident can have his eyes fully tested by a qualified optician?

There is nothing to stop people from doing that now. I have no sufficient evidence of a significant connection between defective eyesight and road accidents. Anybody in my position has to be careful before he imposes upon the public restrictions and requirements which are not really necessary.

In this context, can the right hon. Gentleman give the House information about the draft proposals of the EEC? As I understand them, they would make demands for a completely different approach to driving licences in this country. Will the right hon. Gentleman say to the Community what he has just said to my hon. Friend the Member for Nuneaton (Mr. Leslie Huckfield)?

I might very well do just that.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that when there is fog on the motorway, or any other road, many people who can see properly apparently do not want to see, and that if those who can see would concern themselves with what they can see during fog there would be fewer accidents?

My hon. Friend has made a characteristically shrewd point.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he is aware of the high proportion of land for which planning permission has been granted but which remains undeveloped; and whether he will consider changes in the system by way of partial rating for such land in order to expedite its release for development.

I am aware that there are substantial amounts of such land. As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced yesterday, we propose to introduce a land hoarding charge, further details of which will be announced as soon as possible. This is intended to expedite the release of land for development.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that I am delighted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer has seen fit to fulfil my request before the third time of asking?

I am glad that my hon. Friend is so content.

Has the right hon. and learned Gentlemen read The Times, The Guardian and the Financial Times this morning, which all report sighs of relief among property owners? Cannot landowners avoid the proposed charge by delaying seeking planning permission until the very moment when they intend to sell, with the result that less, rather than more, land will be available for building purposes?

The hon. Gentleman had better await details of the proposals, when I hope we shall satisfy him that things will be better.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend lay details of the proposed land hoarding charge before the House before the end of the month, so that legislation can be put through as an urgent priority?

My right hon. Friend has announced the general policy and the details will be brought before the House as soon as possible. I propose to have consultations with the local planning authorities.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the Government are probably the only source of satisfaction with regard to these proposals? Very few people think that they will have much impact on the situation. More specifically, may I ask whether, without waiting for the proposals to be placed before the House, the Minister will take action with regard to the 1,000 acres in the Greater London area with planning permission for 46,000 dwellings, most of them over three years old, which have not been started? Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman seek to get that land brought into use by getting it purchased by the GLC?

There was a general discussion on these matters in our recent debate on housing. The proposal for a land hoarding charge must be regarded only as part of a general policy of getting land for development as quickly as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what was the average price of a new house and of a second-hand house in the Northern Region at the latest available date.

The average prices for new and second-hand houses in the Northern Region were £5,904 and £5,280 respectively in 1972.

Do not these figures show that the repeated assertion of the Minister for Housing and Construction that house owning is within the means of the average family on average or below-average earnings is the sheerest moonshine, even in a region with an unusually high proportion of very cheap houses? Is it not a fact—and will it not emerge even more clearly when the Budget implications for mortgage lending rates become even clearer—that in terms of house owning we are still sharply divided between the haves and the have-nots?

The national figures show that first-time purchasers were holding their own in the market during 1972. Mortgages for first-time purchasers rose from 301,000 to 371,000 and mortgages for borrowers under 25 rose from 117,000 to 144,000.

In view of the substantial increase in the price of both new and second-hand houses, particularly during the last three years, what does the Minister intend to do about it? How does he expect the fellows on £20 and £25 a week to stand aside and not put in for wage claims when house prices are rising with the rapidity that they have done under this Government?

There are reports from some building societies that during the last three or four months there has been a marked levelling off in prices, for existing houses in particular.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he expects to receive the report by his regional controller on the safety of the Al in the vicinity of the villages of Beeston, Wyboston and Chawston.

We have decided to provide a footbridge at Wyboston as soon as possible and propose to close openings in the central reservation here and at Chawston. Study of the rest of Al in Bedfordshire, including Beeston, is still proceeding.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this will cause a great deal of relief to the people of Wyboston and Chawston, but that Beeston is still in a perilous position? Does he recall that this stretch of the Al was disgracefully badly planned in the first place? There can only be one answer—a footbridge or an underpass. Now that he has made this welcome announcement about the stretch through Wyboston and Chawston will he ensure that as soon as the controller reports something is also done about Beeston?

As my hon. Friend knows, we are awaiting a report on traffic and conditions from the county council, and we will certainly be considering the Beeston situation very carefully when we have received that report.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he expects to have completed his review into the sources of water supply in the Northern Region.

As yet, it is too early to say how long this will take. I will do all I can to bring the question at issue to a speedy conclusion.

Is it not the case that, without taking any account of the demands of the Redcar steel complex or Teesside oil developments, the Tees area is expected to absorb its water yield by 1977, and that, whether it is Kielder or Irthing, it will take five years to bring water to the Tees; that delay is critical, and that uncertainty is bound to affect the expansion of existing industry and the attraction of new industry?

Nobody has been disputing the need for the water and no one is denying the need to have regard to the timetable. The question at issue is the most suitable source of supply.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman tell us what extra information he expects to receive that was not given at the exhaustive public inquiry which was held and which convinced his inspector about the urgency of the case? Is he aware that every Member of Parliament in the Northern Region—apart, apparently, from the Secretary of State himself—has been inundated with demands from every section of the community to get ahead with the project at Kielder? Can he tell us whether he gets any support among his hon. Friends?

I cannot anticipate what evidence may be brought forward by those concerned.

Has my right hon. and learned Friend noted—I have no doubt he has—that it is satisfying to those of us who have been concerned with regional development in the Northern Region for many years now that the region leads the field in the take-up of the much improved incentives to industry coming in that are now offered by the present Government? Bearing this in mind, will he take note that considerable Press publicity was given to a firm which has now decided against considering the Northern Region because of the danger of shortage of water? Will he therefore hasten his decision?

I appreciate the need for getting on with these matters as quickly as possible. I found when I got to the Department that a good deal of time had already been taken. I am sure that, whatever the reasons for its decision not to go to the North-East, the firm my hon. Friend mentioned should not have taken it on the basis he suggests.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the possibility of the Irthing development was fully considered and rejected for good reasons by the Northumbrian River Authority? Is he not further aware of the great concern and alarm which the delay in his decision has caused to all responsible people in the North, presumably outside his own constituency?

I have set out my reasons for the view that I expressed as Secretary of State in the letter in which I conveyed my decision. I must stand on that for the time being.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he is satisfied with the progress being made in reducing the time taken by local planning authorities in deciding planning applications and by himself in giving decisions on planning appeals; and if he will make a statement.

Over the past two years there has been a sharp increase in the number of planning applications. Despite this, most authorities are still giving decisions on the majority of applications within the two-month period. Discussions with the local authority associations are in progress to establish what further action can be taken with regard to both applications and appeals.

While welcoming that answer and the measures that my right hon. and learned Friend has taken and is taking to expedite decisions on planning appeals, may I ask him to consider what many people who have to deal with planning applications are increasingly realising are unnecessary delays by far too many officers of some local planning authorities, who are delaying, over minor details, decisions on planning applications? Does he not agree that a much more positive approach, within good planning policies, should be understood by these officers?

That may well be so, and I am considering what further advice can be given to local planning authorities on how to deal with these matters.

What percentage of planning appeals relate to rural authorities or rural areas? Would it not be a good idea if the Secretary of State prepared some guidance notes to county councils in dealing with rural applications for planning permission, so that county planners do not apply urban planning principles to rural areas?

I cannot give the breakdown of figures which the hon. Gentleman requests. If he puts down a Question, I do not know whether I shall be able to do so. But certainly a planning authority must consider the merits of planning applications in relation to the needs of its own areas.

Will the Secretary of State give special priority to those areas where unemployment is high, so that planning can go forward and jobs be found where they are badly needed?

One must deal with planning applications on their merits, and the primary responsibility rests with the local planning authorities. Where there are difficulties, cases can, of course, be raised on appeal.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will order a public inquiry, with wide terms of reference, into the proposed Bridport bypass, in view of the local opposition from many quarters.

Yes, Sir.

May I thank my right hon. Friend for that welcome decision? Since the borough council, the rural district council and the National Farmers' Union have all come out against this scheme, will he ensure that the widest terms of reference are given to the inquiry?

Yes, Sir; I give that unqualified assurance to my hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what representations he has had about the adequacy of the regulations concerning the design of dams and reservoirs; and what action his Department is taking as a result.

The Institution of Civil Engineers has proposed amendments to the certificates and forms prescribed by regulations made under the Reservoir Safety Provisions Act 1930. These proposals will be discussed at a meeting later this month between the institution and the Department.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply. Is he satisfied with the general level of third party insurance against dam disasters? If not, will he bring forward legislation to provide for this?

That is a matter for the owners of the reservoirs. There is no power to make regulations in that connection at present; as my hon. Friend said, it would need legislation. On the reorganisation of water services, the resources of the regional water authorities should remove any anxiety about the capability of meeting any claim for damages.

Is the Minister aware that the people of the North are more interested in getting the Kielder Dam proceeded with than in its design, and that unless his complacent right hon. and learned Friend makes a speedy decision he will go down in history in the North as the Minister who murdered the industrial future of the north-east of England?

That is rubbish. There is no complacency about the matter at all. The question has already been answered.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what plans he has for the establishment of a new strategic housing authority for the whole of London, consequent upon the recommendations of the Layfield Report: and if he will make a statement.

As I have said in my statement upon the publication of this report, the Government will wish to consider this proposal over the longer term. However, the upheaval involved, coming so soon after the 1963 reorganisation of London government, might mean that any benefit in the long run would be at the cost of short-term loss of effectiveness.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentlemen indicate whether or not he is in favour of outer London boroughs being required to make land available to deal with the stress areas of inner London, such as Hackney? Is he aware that we cannot hope to solve the problems of housing in areas such as this unless we get help from what have hitherto been extremely selfish Tory outer London boroughs?

All London boroughs have committed themselves to voluntary co-operation, and I hope that that will continue. I hope that the work of the London Action Group will also be beneficial. As I have explained to the hon. Member previously, local authorities have certain statutory powers to make compulsory purchase orders to acquire land outside their own area. Some of these may from time to time come before me. I shall have to judge them on their merits.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that we already have a regional housing authority in the form of the Greater London Council, which has recently increased its annual number of lettings from 22,000 to 24,000? Will he remember the very sound advice of the 12th century philosopher, John the Scot, who said, "Do not multiply entities beyond necessity"?

That seems very sound advice.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that few people will think much of the GLC as a strategic housing authority? Is he also aware that no changes of machinery will produce more houses in London as long as the construction industry is incapable of building them? I am sure that the right hon. and learned Gentleman knows that the National Federation of Building Trades Employers has been writing to the chairmen of London housing committees which have a desperate housing shortage saying that nearly all the leading contracting organisations have been forced to adopt a policy of opting out of public authority work, particularly housing, in the London area. In the light of that fact, how does the Secretary of State propose to get more houses built in London?

I agree with what the right hon. Gentleman has said about changes of structure. In themselves, they achieve nothing. But the right hon. Gentleman is less than fair, both to the GLC—which has made very considerable progress on housing in the last few years —and to the construction industry. We ought also to recognise that the other London boroughs which have housing responsibilities have also been making a constructive effort. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will lend his support to what they are trying to do to improve the situation further.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many letters he has now received from residents living in the Greater London area concerning the Layfield Report: and what replies he has sent.

I have received very few letters specifically concerned with the Layfield Report since it was published on 19th February, but I receive many letters every day on the various issues in London with which the report is concerned.

The right hon. and learned Gentleman is, therefore, fully aware of the deep concern which many Londoners are now expressing on certain comments made in the report, especially those applying to employment, housing and transport, but will he give a firm assurance to the House and to Londoners that there will be no attempt to bulldoze through that report, and that every Londoner will be given a fair opportunity to express his views and his concern about points made in the report?

Of course. That was the object in publishing the report, as many hon. Members on both sides of the House asked me to do, at the earliest opportunity. I published the report with certain general statements of the Government's view. But there ought to be a lot of public discussion of the very important issues that are raised in the report.

With regard to the housing aspect of the report, will my right hon. and learned Friend use his influence to dissuade the Opposition from their proposal to nationalise all rented housing and land, which would result in fewer rented houses and less land being available to London?

That is not a very con-structive or helpful proposal, but it would be unfair to saddle the official Opposition with such an absurd suggestion.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that there is widespread public concern at the news that the implementation of this report would mean the destruction of 15,000 houses? Is he also aware that that destruction and the enormous expense of the motorway box plan could be avoided if the very sensible and ingenious plan referred to in Question No. 61 today were adopted instead?

I doubt that we shall reach Question No. 61. But I am prepared to reply on this point. At this stage it is impossible to estimate the number of houses that might be affected by any particular road construction, because all that I have done in certain circumstances is to indicate decisions in principle. There will have to be a lot of further discussion.and, if necessary, further public inquiries on any detailed line of any route.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he is aware.of the continuing concern about the lack of a decision on the confirmation of the proposed green belt areas in East Berkshire, particularly following the action taken in respect of the proposed green belt areas in the adjoining counties of Buckinghamshire and Surrey: and if he will now make a statement on the confirmation of the green belt in East Berkshire.

The green belt proposals have to be processed as modifications to the Berkshire County Development Plan and the draft of those modifications was sent to the county council for comment on 21st February.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that after his decisions in Cookham and Windsor these proposals will be widely appreciated by not only constituents but local authorities? I have one important question. Will my right hon. Friend use his power sparingly on appeal and in general try to back up the local authority's decisions rather than have "planning on appeal", which is becoming the vogue at present?

Until the green belt is approved, the proposed green belt will be protected on the same lines as the approved green belt.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he has decided to modify in any way the plans he originally approved for the A41(M) and the North Orbital Extension from Maple Cross to Hunton Bridge.

No, Sir, other than those set out in the decision letter of 22nd January.

Does the Minister realise that his present proposals are causing alarm and despondency among the people of Watford? Why does he consistently and stubbornly still refuse to meet a delegation from Watford Borough Council—the people whose lives are affected by this decision—in order at least to hear their views and to consider their alternative proposals?

The council advanced its views very strongly at the public inquiry. Those views were considered by the inspector, and considered in great detail by my right hon. Friend. That is why there is really no point in going over them again.

Does my hon. Friend understand that there is great alarm and despondency elsewhere than in Watford, namely, in my constituency and in the Hertfordshire County Council? This road is being driven flat through between two schools. Will my hon. Friend kindly reconsider the matter?

I understand the concern my hon. Friend mentions, but we are taking the greatest steps to see that this road is environmentally as attractive as possible—and this will be helped by the legislation currently before the House.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what further progress has been made with regard to release of land for residential development by Government Departments and British Rail; and if he will make a statement.

In 1972 about 7,400 acres of surplus land were disposed of by Government Departments and 7,500 by British Rail. Information is not available on the amounts used for house building. The Government will release additional land as soon as it becomes surplus, and the nationalised industries are being urged to do the same.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend say whether the announcement made yesterday by our right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer includes Government land and British Rail land?

It would be wise to await the details of the proposals—which I shall lay before the House in due course—setting out the way in which the land hoarding charge might work. My hon. Friend will realise that a great deal of progress has been made in this matter in the last year or so.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman put a rocket behind British Rail—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—and Mr. Richard Marsh, personally, in order to make them at last do something to clear up the derelict land at Broom Lane, Levenshulme, Manchester? It is a health hazard and a danger to children. It has been festering for too long, and something must be done about it.

We could certainly do with a driver or two. I will bear in mind the hon. Gentleman's constituency point.