asked the Secretary of State for Wales what further discussions he has had with the British Steel Corporation concerning its investment programme in Wales.

I continue to have close and regular contact with BSC about the steel industry in Wales.

Does the Minister agree that the £900 million investment scheme is quite mythical and that the net new investment will be actually less than half that figure? Were not the bulk of the schemes already authorised some years ago? The British Steel Corporation and the Government have together sought to deceive the people of Wales and they have been found out. Is it not time that the Government adopted the policy of open government which we were promised by the Prime Minister at the General Election?

I disagree with the hon. Member that the figure is mythical. The Government have approved the broad British Steel Corporation strategy and the corporation's assessment is that over a period of 10 years £3,000 million will require to be invested in the British steel industry. It has assessed that the share in Wales over that period will be about £900 million.

Is not the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that for £75 million Shotton could enter the big steelmaking league? Why has he not obtained some of the £900 million for Shotton steelworks? Has he surrendered the interests of Shotton steelworkers?

I have not surrendered the interests of any steelworkers in Wales. The hon. Member will appreciate that it is not the Government's function to usurp the functions of the British Steel Corporation, which was set up with the support of the Labour Party to run the steel industry. The Government have accepted the broad strategy and have given approval to the amount of money which is involved.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman say whether he has considered the report commissioned by the British Steel Corporation which advocated removal of the export-import trade in steel products from Swansea? Has he further considered the huge additional cost of transportation which would be incurred by the corporation if that happened? Will he look at the terms of the report in view of the social effects, which will be extremely adverse for my constituents?

I certainly understand that there is concern in the Swansea area about an apprehended decision by the British Steel Corporation. However, I saw in the Western Mail this morning that a British Steel Corporation spokesman had said that it was absolutely untrue that a decision had been taken on this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects to publish the line to be followed by the Holy-well by pass; and when construction work is expected to begin.

I expect to publish proposals before the end of the year. It is too early to say when construction work will begin.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend satisfied that sufficient urgency is being devoted to the problem of roads in North Wales? The provision of good road communications both within North Wales and between North Wales and the British motorway system is probably the most important factor for ensuring that we get more and better jobs in North Wales.

I certainly agree with the last part of my hon. Friend's remarks. I can assure him that I am dealing with this matter with a sense of urgency.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the number of mentally and physically handicapped children in Wales being educated in special schools; and what Government legislation exists, or is proposed, to ensure the fullest possible education for all memtally or physically handicapped children in Wales.

Four thousand and eight-five pupils in January 1972. The Education Acts, the Education (Handicapped Children) Act 1970 and the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970 enable local education authorities to make adequate educational provision for handicapped children.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman recall that it was the Tory organisation Progress for Economic and Social Toryism which urged the then Leader of the Opposition in 1968 that he should do much more for these children than was already being done? He promised to do so but he has not carried out that promise. Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give an assurance that there will be no unnecessary segregation of these children, that their teachers will have minimum standards of education, that adjustment to work units will be provided and that he will end in Wales the appalling lack of concern for them?

I disagree with the hon. Gentleman's description of the lack of concern in the last part of his supplementary question. He will have read the recent White Paper "Education: A Framework for Expansion". He will know that it provides for an increase in the capital investment resources available for the replacement and renewal of special schools. For Wales that means for 1976–77 double the present allocation. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I shall continue to give priority to accepting programmes for the further development of facilities for handicapped children.

If there is no lack of concern regarding this problem, can the Secretary of State indicate the size of the problem? How many of these children are not going to school? Unless we know this, it is impossible to say whether enough is being done.

I cannot give the hon. Gentleman an answer without notice. In addition to special schools, local education authorities frequently provide special educational treatment for the less severely handicapped children in primary schools. In addition to the figures I gave to the hon. Gentleman in answer to his Question, accommodation for an additional 1,360 full-time places is already under construction or included in the current building programme.

I accept that for a number of years there has been increased interest in a more substantial direction of resources to meet this problem. However, will the Secretary of State pay particular attention to the need for greater concentration in the development of special places in secondary schools in Wales for mentally and physically handicapped children? At present this need is not being met in most areas in Wales.

That is something which I shall be happy to consider.

While I welcome the increasing trend to integrate these unfortunate children in the normal educational sphere, may I ask whether the right hon. and learned Gentleman realises concerning the 4,000 whom he has identified as being handicapped and in need of special education that there is totally inadequate provision for residential education for severely handicapped children? Will he set his mind to the expansion of the residential sector?

Yes, certainly. Obviously the situation varies in different places. Last Friday I went to a special school in North Wales where the accommodation and treatment were absolutely superb. It is our wish to ensure that inadequate accommodation and facilities are improved.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman recall that when I asked him for the figures for Wales of those suffering from specific disabilities he was unable to provide them? He said that his Department did not keep such figures. Is not a cardinal point in the provision of care for these children the collection of statistics which will enable us to see whether adequate provision is being made? What is he doing about the practice of the Welsh Office in this direction?

Statistics would to a great extent have to be obtained from local authorities. I shall certainly see whether it is possible to get better statistics than we have at present.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will request the Welsh Council to make a detailed calculation of the number of new jobs for men needed in Wales by 1980 in order to maintain the present level of male employment in Wales.

No, Sir.

Does the Secretary of State agree that it would be better if he were to rely upon an intelligent survey rather than upon the intuition which he normally favours in these matters? Will he be candid with the House and admit that by 1980 the minimum number of new male jobs needed is likely to be of the order of 80,000 and that the present Government policies have no hope of meeting a quarter of this demand?

I certainly do not accept those figures. The reason why I said I should not ask the Welsh Council to make a survey is that it is just not possible for anyone to give a firm prediction about job changes, whether they be losses or jobs in prospect. They depend on a large number of factors and are subject to great uncertainty. The hon. Gentleman should realise that if he looks at "Wales: The Way Ahead" he will see how far the predictions came right in that publication.

Is it not a fact that under the previous Government there was a very large loss of job opportunities in Wales, particularly in the coalmining industry?

I think it is right to say that there were 65,000 fewer male jobs in Wales at the end of the last administration's term of office than at the beginning.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that what is destroying the projections of "Wales: The Way Ahead" are the incompetent policies of the present Government?

The right hon. Gentleman will find that the predictions in "Wales: The Way Ahead" were wildly out in June 1970. What are important are things like our policy for expansion and regional development which provide the long-term answer. Recent trends in unemployment are encouraging. Increased interest in Wales by industrialists shows that our policies are taking effect.

I acknowledge that the Secretary of State is an expert at excuses and at seeking always to put blame on the previous administration. Is he not aware that Professor Rees has already undertaken a survey such as my hon. Friend the Member for Cardigan (Mr. Elystan Morgan) asked him to undertake? Professor Rees indicates that 49,000 male jobs will be required and that the figure which my hon. Friend gave is therefore realistic. Why will not the Secretary of State undertake a survey so that he may plan intelligently?

I have mentioned "Wales: The Way Ahead", and another good example of how planning ahead is not all that rewarding is the National Plan. The only sure way to create new jobs is to have an expanding economy and sound regional policies. That is what we are achieving, as the recent unemployment figures show. The seasonally adjusted rate in Wales is the lowest for two years.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what action he is taking to overcome the effects on the hospitals in Wales of the industrial action of the hospital workers.

The Welsh Office has given guidance to the Welsh Hospital Board and to the hospital management committees on the action to be taken, and is represented on a co-ordinating committee of chief officers set up by the Welsh Hospital Board which meets daily.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that the suffering now caused to many thousands of patients in hospitals is due entirely to the Government's stubborn refusal to initiate an inquiry, which was asked for by the BMA and the TUC? The deplorable low wages and the often unpleasant duties of hospital workers have left them with no other choice but the heartrending decision to demonstrate their grievances.

I am rather surprised that the hon. Gentleman should take that attitude. I share his sadness and the sadness of other hon. Members that the hospital service is not working to full capacity. On the subject of pay, I remind the hon. Gentleman that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services has announced that under stage 2 hospital workers can be offered £2 a week for men and £1·80 for women. They can have that now.

Will my hon. Friend acknowledge the splendid efforts of nurses, doctors and volunteer workers which have minimised the effect of the troubles?

I am happy to support what my hon. Friend has said. I can only hope, with other hon. Members, that the present situation will come to an end as speedily as possible.

Does not the Minister think that the highly-paid consultants in the National Health Service would be better employed in working full-time in the Health Service, in order to reduce the waiting list of urgent and non-urgent cases, rather than smearing hospital workers who are the worst-paid people in the hospital service?

I do not think that that arises from this Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales by what percentage on average the rent of council house tenants in Wales will rise because of rate revaluation.

This information is not available.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that calculations made by the local authorities suggest that the rate element in council house rents will rise by over 50 per cent., even taking into account Government help? Does he not think that that is a gratuitous and unnecessary hardship to impose on council house tenants after the savage attacks made upon them by the Housing Finance Act?

The gratuitous and unnecessary hardship to which the hon. Gentleman refers might well have been avoided if his party had not run away from revaluation in 1968. Secondly, I remind the hon. Gentleman that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer said in his Budget Statement that the Government would be giving additional help to domestic ratepayers who face large increases in their rates due to revaluation.

Peanuts!

The peanuts to which the hon. Gentleman refers will cost the nation £10 million.

Can the hon. Gentleman explain why an urgent revaluation is necessary of the rates borne by council house rents whereas the urgently-needed revaluation of the labour of ancillary hospital workers is being delayed?

I can see no particular reason why Questions Nos. 6 and 7 should be linked together. All I would comment is that the rate support grant settlement which the Government have just decided on has provided more assistance to local authorities than ever before. It has also given greater help to domestic ratepayers.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make it a condition of future concessions for garages on motorways that there shall be in each case a full range of engineering services for motorists.

No, Sir. I do not think it necessary to make this a condition.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend look at this again? Is he aware that at many of the motorway stations in England the services to the motorists are terribly inadequate? Recently I found it impossible to get upper cylinder lubricant, and it is almost impossible to persuade the people at these stations to do even elementary things like checking tyres or washing windscreens. The services are inadequate. Indeed, if one is faced with a serious engineering job they are simply not available.

In view of what my hon. Friend has said I will look at it again, but I am told that experience in England has shown that the needs of motorway traffic are usually met adequately by the provision of emergency repair and breakdown recovery facilities at motorway service areas.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what increase in the price of land required for housebuilding in Wales has taken place since November 1972.

I refer the hon. Member to my reply of 5th February to the hon. Member for Aberdare (Mr. Probert). —[Vol. 850, c. 14–15.]

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that these unwarranted and unjustified increases in land prices in Wales are having a serious effect upon leasehold enfranchisement and that constituents of mine who were offered the freehold of their homes for £200 in November are now having that offer withdrawn and a substitute offer of £400 instead? This is a 100 per cent. increase in leasehold enfranchisement costs in less than four months. How can any Government reasonably expect workers to accept wage restraint on the one hand and this ruthless exploitation on the other?

I recognise the problem but the release of more land for building should help to stablise prices. Since November 1971 well over 1,000 acres in pressure areas of South-East Wales have been released for housing after examination of the sites by the Welsh Office. A further large site at Thornhill should be available shortly.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what assistance is available from his Department to assist with the clearing up of the despoliation left behind as a result of coalmining operations.

Financial assistance by way of Government grants is available to local authorities for the acquisition, clearance and after treatment of derelict land. The rate of grant is 85 per cent. in the development area and 75 per cent. in the intermediate area.

Is the hon. Gentleman's Department permitted to initiate schemes for the restoration of places despoiled by coalmining operatioin? If so, will he consider drawing up a scheme to restore those parts of the parish of Dyffryn Cellwen, which includes the villages of Ban-wen and Onllwyn, which bear heavy scars of despoliation due to mining operations?

I am aware that that part of South Wales in the hon. Gentleman's constituency has had to bear a considerable amount of opencast working. My officials in the Derelict Land Unit are always ready and willing to provide local authorities with expert advice in preparing schemes, and this one is no exception.

Will the hon. Gentleman also confirm that new schemes arc about to be started in that area which will virtually cover the whole area? Will he further try to persuade the Government to introduce legislation whereby the 15 per cent. that is now required to be found by local authorities will be found by the National Coal Board or any other such body?

That is a wide question and I remind the hon. Gentleman that the 15 per cent. is not wholly borne by the local ratepayers.

The removal of all forms of dereliction is important. Is it true that the funds available for Operation Eyesore have been exhausted? If so, will my hon. Friend look at the matter again and see whether the scheme can be extended?

I agree that both Operation Eyesore and derelict land reclamation are matters of great importance. I will look at the question of finance.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what proposals he has to provide a new access to the University Hospital at the Heath, Cardiff.

I am ready to discuss this matter with the Cardiff City Council, which is the authority responsible for the present access roads to the University Hospital.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is widespread dissatisfaction with the access to the hospital, which is considered inadequate for any emergency, and that the use of the roads in the Heath area causes inconvenience and danger to my constituents?

I accept that there is inconvenience to residents but I would not accept that access to the hospital is delayed at the present time. I should be more than prepared to meet the city council again if it so wished.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the total expenditure approved for locally-determined schemes in Wales for 1973–74.

Allocations of capital payments for locally-determined schemes in Wales in 1973–74 total £24,577,000.

Is it not the case that approvals by the Secretary of State in many cases fall far short of requirements and of what the local authorities had been led by the Department to expect, and that this will lead to redundancies among county council employees in many counties in Wales? Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman reconsider many of these cases and listen to the appeals of county councils and other local authorities against his decision to reduce the amount which county councils are to get?

The total allocations of areas were discussed and agreed before-England and Wales and the factors taken into account in distribution to county hand with the local authority associations. I have had correspondence with the right hon. Gentleman about Anglesey. The sum of £743,000, which is the amount Anglesey will get out of the total I announced, is substantially greater than the expenditure for Anglesey in previous years on schemes now in the locally-determined sector.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how much money has been made available to the Welsh Tourist Board for grant in the current year.

Over £2 million for the year ending 31st March next.

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that investment in the tourist industry is now probably the easiest and cheapest way of creating new employment in Wales? Will he confirm also that the amount he has mentioned is woefully inadequate and is already totally taken up by applications which have been pending for over 12 months awaiting the approval of the tourist board, and that a doubling of this sum would mean that a very large number of new jobs could be created in many areas?

I do not accept that the figure is woefully inadequate, but if the hon. Gentleman will let me know of any particular instances of hotel proprietors in his constituency who have particular problems, I will put them to the tourist board.

How does this figure, which may or may not be adequate—I am inclined to think it is adequate— compare with the figure for the year 1970–71?

The figure then was woefully inadequate. It was £314,000 outturn compared with an estimate for next year of £2,950,000.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that the imposition of value added tax could have harmful effects on employment and the revenue in the tourist industry, entailing the need for more grants from the tourist board? Does he realise that revenue from tourism in Wales in 1971 was £128 million, which underlines the belief that this needless tax will have a damaging effect on the industry?

No. The combination of selective employment tax, brought in by the Labour Government, and of purchase tax was far more unpopular than value added tax.

Is not my hon. Friend aware that a large number of projects have been held up because of the exhaustion of funds in the hotel improvement grant scheme? Will he, as many of my hon. Friends have pressed him to do, take another look at the whole matter?

I do not disagree when my hon. Friend says that the tourist industry is of the greatest importance to Wales, but I repeat that the funds coming from the Government are very encouraging.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that the half truth of his reply to his hon. Friend the Member for Flint, West (Sir A. Meyer) did him no credit? Is he aware that to expenditure on tourism in Wales during 1970–71, the period he mentioned, there should be added expenditure on the hotel development grants scheme, an open-ended grants scheme? The hon. Gentleman gains nothing by not giving the full picture.

If the right hon. Gentleman wants the full truth of tourism as it was under his administration, I must remind him of the fact that the overdraft of the Welsh Tourist Board had to be secured by the chairman of the tourist board himself, not the Government.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will issue advice to local authorities on the impact of entry into the EEC upon their contracting procedures.

Welsh Office circular No. 4 of 1973 was issued to all local authorities in January about the effects of entry into the EEC on public sector contracts. A further circular will be issued in due course.

What action does the Secretary of State intend to take to avoid the increase of European red tape that will result from the fact that EEC directives mean that every contract worth more than £450,000, which is less than the cost of the average secondary school, or a large sewerage scheme, will have to be tendered for on a European basis? Will not this lead to interminable delay? In addition, will it not destroy the whole idea that many such contracts should be awarded locally to create local employment?

The hon. Gentleman is right when he says that what it means is that contracts of more than £0·41 million will require to be advertised. I believe that to be an extremely good idea and it may well be that we shall have some contracts fulfilled more cheaply than would otherwise be the case.

Does that mean that the Government are completely rejecting the recommendation of the Bolton Committee on Small Businesses that central and local government should favour local enterprises? Have they abandoned that?

In the nature of things, it is to be expected that generally local firms will be in a strong competitive position. In any event it is expected that only major national projects in the United Kingdom will attract competition from member States in the Community.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is his estimate of the number of school leavers in Flintshire in the summers of 1974 and 1975.

About 2,000 in each summer.

What future is there for these youngsters if steelmaking at Shotton ends? For many of them will it not be a matter of going straight from the classroom to the dole?

The hon. Gentleman should not exaggerate the position. I appreciate that he is concerned about the proposed rundown of steelmaking at Shotton. This is one of the matters that the task force that I have set up in the area is looking at. It has already met representatives of the teachers' associations in the area to discuss the problem, and the points made to it will certainly be considered.

What were the calculations made by the right hon. and learned Gentleman's Department of the effects on school leavers in Flintshire of the proposed steel closures before the right hon. and learned Gentleman agreed to those closures? As he bears responsibility and has agreed to those closures, he must then have had some reckoning of what would be the effect on school leavers among others.

Certainly a calculation was made. At present the British Steel Corporation requires on average about 200 school leavers. Inevitably, ending steelmaking reduces the number of job opportunities for them.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether, in his circular on nursery education issued on 31st January 1973, he has included the employment of women as one of his criteria for priorities to be considered in planning a programme of nursery provision.

No. The primary considerations for the expansion of nursery provision are educational.

Is the Secretary of State aware that some firms in Wrexham are large employers of women but are having difficulty in recruiting women labour? As women's activity rates are complementary to and apparently often limited by the rate of male employment in industry, will the right hon. and learned Gentleman kill two birds with one stone and ask his task force in North Wales to urge the Denbighshire education authority to provide nursery school facilities in certain areas of Wrexham?

I am aware that domestic difficulties prevent some mothers from taking up the employment available to them in the Wrexham area. However, the nursery school day does not correspond to the normal working day. The day care of young children while a mother is working is a function of the social services department and should not be confused with nursery education.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what estimate he has made of the percentage loss of exports to the United Kingdom which Asian Commonwealth countries and Pakistan will sustain as a result of British entry into the EEC.

No such estimate is possible. The effect of the gradual loss of Commonwealth preference in the United Kingdom market will in practice be substantially offset by the generalised preference scheme for developing countries operated by the Community and the enlarged Community has declared its willingness to seek solutions to any trade problems that may arise.

Even allowing for the last point that my hon. Friend has mentioned, may I ask whether he has seen the estimate made by the Overseas Development Institute that up to 40 per cent. of Asian Commonwealth exports to this country could be damaged? Will he give an assurance that the Government will not allow the phasing-out of these preferences until they are absolutely confident that such damage will not be sustained?

If my hon. Friend has another look at the report, he will see that the figure of 39 per cent. refers not to the loss of trade but to the loss of preference. The way in which he expressed it exaggerated the situation. I should also point out that the extent of any success in trade depends on factors such as cost, the quality of the goods, the terms of delivery and the extent of local demand, which are not forecastable to the extent that my hon. Friend seems to suggest.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that 39 per cent. is 359 million dollars, which is a substantial sum?

I am sure that my hon. Friend and I, with our acute financial awareness, would not disagree about that, but I hope he will agree with me that the figure to which he refers is for the loss of preference and not the loss of trade.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if, in the light of recent decisions by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the United States of America concerning transatlantic fares, and the introduction into United States legislatures of legislation aimed specifically at hindering Concorde, he will now seek to discuss with his European partners the establishment of a European Air Transportation Association, in order to combat action taken or proposed by the United States authorities.

There is already close consultation on a wide range of air transport policy matters among European Governments, through the European Civil Aviation Conference. We are constantly considering how European co-operation on air transport matters might be improved, but I am not as yet convinced that a European Air Transportation Association would necessarily be the most effective means to this end.

I was glad to hear my hon. Friend use the words "as yet". Does he recall the speech of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister to the conference of IATA at the end of last year when he pressed that body to accept the need and the demand for low fares? Is not my hon. Friend aware that for a quarter of a century IATA has been more or less dominated by United States carriers? Is it not about time that Europe, with its new-found strength through unity, made its voice and wishes in this matter felt?

I am sure that my hon. Friend would agree nevertheless that if there are to be low fares across the Atlantic, the pressure on this side must be matched by a corresponding willingness on the other side.

I am delighted to hear my hon. Friend say that he is prepared to accept pressure from the other side. Has he noted the advertisement that Pan American has put in the national Press which says:

"It is strange to believe"—

Order. The hon. Member ought not to quote from a newspaper at Question Time.

I am sorry, Mr. Speaker. May I draw my hon. Friend's attention to an advertisement in which Pan American says that it is not prepared to offer fares that are different from those of other scheduled airlines? The fact is that British airlines are prepared to operate across the Atlantic for far less than are the Americans. Why should not passengers have the right to travel at fares at which our airlines can afford to sell the seats?

My hon. Friend will know that we have pressed that point powerfully. I am sure he will agree with me when I say that I hope PanAm will not be allowed indefinitely to set the terms.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry how many orders for machine tools have been placed under the pre-production order scheme during the last 12 months for which figures are available; and what is the value of these orders.

No such orders have been placed in the last 12 months. One application is currently under discussion.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that this is a most appalling reflection on the way in which his Department is operating the pre-production order scheme? Will he in particular examine the way in which it applies the rule requiring an advanced technical content within the machine tool? Does he agree that if this were interpreted in a more liberal manner the scheme could bring a large number of orders to the machine-tool industry, to the advantage of that industry and to the advantage of user industries in this country?

I am not able to agree with the hon. Gentleman. The standards are set to encourage the development and use of technically advanced machinery. I would remind him of the many aids that have been given in other ways to the machine-tool industry including the public sector additional and accelerated order scheme and the variety of research projects which were extremely helpful to the machine-tool industry and which have resulted in a strong and continuing upward trend.

Does the Minister know how much Government money is going in other forms of assistance to the machine-tool industry? Does he know what percentage of the total sum spent is used to buy imported machine tools and how much for example is going to Alfred Herbert at Coventry?

I cannot give the figures without notice. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that there is £15 million in the advance purchasing scheme and that a very small fraction of that has gone on imported machinery.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that the investment plans of the machine-tool industry are adequate to deal with the rate of growth which he and his colleagues confidently predict will take place in the next few years?

The right hon. Gentleman will agree that it would be very smug of me to say that we are ever satisfied in that way. I believe that the industry is aware of the opportunities and is planning to take advantage of them.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what reply he gave to inquiries by Mr. Peterson, President Nixon's special representative, on his recent visit to London about the United Kingdom Government's attitude to the international trade negotiations due to start this autumn.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what recent discussions he has had with the United States Government about United Kingdom Government proposals to be put forward in the international trade negotiations under GATT later this year.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will make a statement about his recent discussions in London with President Nixon's representative on the proposed GATT negotiations for further liberalising international trade.

My right hon. Friend's talks with Ambassador Peterson last month and the discussions he had in Washington in January are part of a continuing dialogue between our two Governments on current problems. He empasised our concern for the success of the multilateral negotiations. Our participation in the preparatory work within the EEC has the same objective.

Since that answer means almost nothing and since we were constantly told that one of the main purposes of joining the EEC was to achieve major reforms from within, can the Minister give an assurance that the British Government will propose major reforms of the common agricultural policy in these trade negotiations?

Agriculture was one of the topics discussed in the wide-ranging discussions between Ambassador Peterson and United Kingdom Ministers. The United States has put forward a number of ideas on ways in which trade and agriculture might be developed. These are being considered. These consultations are going forward and the right hon. Gentleman will know that it would be premature at this stage to say any more about the course which they are taking.

What is the British view in the consultations which we are having with the other countries? Are we not entitled to know?

The question of informing the House of the way in which the discussions are going is a matter which is being kept under review. It is obviously out of the question to reveal one's hand before the action is joined.

The Minister will be aware that this issue has come up time and again. Is he aware that if the Government are not ready to tell the House what their objectives are, we have no criteria by which to judge the extent to which they have succeeded? Is he further aware that if secrecy is to surround our negotiating position on each occasion Parliament will lose any opportunity to influence the Government's efforts in such negotiations?

The right hon. Gentleman knows that we, like the United States and the rest of the Community, share a strong interest in the liberalisation of international trade. He will also be aware of the importance of each party taking the other's point of view during the coming months in preparation for the meeting later in the year.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what recent representations he has had to the effect that the regional employment premium should be retained.

The CBI wrote to my right hon. Friend last month recommending that the premium be retained until the end of 1978.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the CBI has also undertaken a survey which shows that the loss of jobs could be of the order of 20,000 to 50,000 as a result of the ending of the regional employment premium? Is he further aware that not only the TUC but the National Economic Development Office has already advocated retention of the premium? Can he say whether the present discussions taking place at the Department about the phasing-out of the premium mean that there is to be a total ending, or will there be any chance of a retention of some form of regionally differentiated labour subsidy?

I am slightly surprised that the hon. Gentleman should think it possible for the CBI to make such calculations, isolating the effect of regional employment premium for the other regional incentives which have been produced and which prevail. The Government will be consulting both sides of industry about the phasing-out in the period ahead. Meanwhile no substantial reply has been sent to the CBI and our position remains that the premium will be phased out over the period from September 1974.

Has the European Community, either formally or informally, at any time indicated its view on the general acceptability of the regional employment premium as a technique of regional policy?

I am not aware that it has done so in the terms my hon. Friend suggests. He might like to note that at least one country in the Community has a scheme of reduced social security contributions the effect of which is similar to that of the premium.

Since the CBI's representations to the Government for the retention of the premium have now been reinforced by the chairman of the PEST Tory Group, would it not be much better for the Government to announce that the premium ought to be retained, improved and doubled if necessary as suggested by some commentators, rather than leave the House and the country suspended until we get what we are sure will be the Chancellor's cliff-hanging autumn Budget?

The hon. Gentleman is wrong in most of what he says and specifically in what he said about the CBI, which has asked not that the premium should be retained but that the phasing-out period should be spread over four years.

Will my hon. Friend please bear in mind that at the time of the last General Election I did not support my party's view about the regional employment premium? Is he aware that I left myself free so that I could know the employment position in my part of the world when we came to take this decision? Is he further aware that if it is not satisfactory I will exercise my right to disagree with my party for once?

I am not quite sure what my hon. Friend means by "for once".

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will refuse landing rights to United States airlines in the United Kingdom until the United States authorities accept the principle of price competition between scheduled airlines operating across the North Atlantic.

No, Sir. The United States airlines which provide scheduled services to the United Kingdom enjoy rights to do so provided that they comply with the terms of their authorisations under the Air Service Agreement, which include an obligation to apply fares approved by the two Governments.

Can my hon. Friend tell me why they should have the right to exercise a veto over what we want to do?

My hon. Friend is mistaken if what he says is intended to apply to scheduled fares. He will understand that tariffs on scheduled services are normally controlled by requirements which must be approved by the Governments at both ends of the route.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that above all things we must try to avoid a landing rights war? Can he tell the House whether the Government have received any intimation from the CAB or any of the individual States that landing rights will be denied if a different fare structure operates? Further, can he say whether the CAB or any of the individual American States has yet denied landing rights for Concorde?

I know of no such denial of landing rights having been communicated to us.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the price competition going on in this area includes a substantial element of reduction in real prices of air fares? Will he support the notion that that should not take priority over the reduction of aircraft noise as an item affecting price?

I am well aware of my hon. Friend's anxiety to see that aircraft noise is reduced. One way in which this can most effectively be achieved is by allowing airlines the finance to re-equip themselves with quieter aircraft.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will make a statement on the steel industry in Scotland.

No, Sir. The British Steel Corporation's strategy for development in Scotland was explained in the White Paper, Cmnd. 5226.

Does my hon. Friend agree that, as the document forecasts a series of closures and redundancies in the Scottish steel industry, it is scandalous that the British Steel Corporation should have turned away to Japanese industry very substantial orders for undersea and overland pipes, which were offered to it, because it simply could not deliver? As the industry is facing contraction, does not my hon. Friend agree that there should be a thorough inquiry into what went wrong with these orders, because it has been clear for a long time that substantial orders for North Sea oil tubes would be available?

My hon. Friend will agree that that is probably a different point, but very careful inquiries have been made into why the orders for the pipes had to be placed with Japan. It is due partly to technical problems, which have now been overcome, and partly to labour problems in certain areas.

In view of the recently published report of the Hunterston Development Company and the renewed interest being shown by the private sector in developments at Hunterston, is the Minister prepared to reconsider changing Government policy and recommending an immediate go-ahead with the green field steel site at Hunterston?

The strategy for the selection of the site for the major steel complex at Hunterston was clearly spelt out in the White Paper and has been debated on a number of occasions in the House. I remind the hon. Gentleman that one of the proposals contained in the White Paper referred to the possibility of a direct reduction plant being sited at Hunterston for producing a pelletised iron to support an electric arc furnace.

Will my hon. Friend elaborate on his statement about the direct reduction plant? Is he negotiating with Willie Korf of West Germany for the development of such a process? Is it possible that a mini-mill will be established there with German capital?

I would remind my hon. Friend that the type of plant and negotiations of this sort are matters for the British Steel Corporation.

Can the Minister tell the House when the statement will be made about the rise in steel prices, now anticipated at between 10 per cent. and 15 per cent., which, combined with the move over to the European basing point system price, is bound to have an effect on the steel industry in Scotland as well as everywhere else?

I cannot tell the right hon. Gentleman the date, but I recognise the need for a statement to be made as soon as this is possible.

asked the Attorney-General if he has completed his consideration of the recommendations of the Lord Chancellor's Advisory Committee concerning a revision of the income limits of eligibility for legal aid; and if he will make a statement.

I am not yet able to add anything to the reply given to the hon. Gentleman on 26th February.—[Vol. 851, c. 1059–61.]

That is a grossly unsatisfactory reply. Is not the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the advisory committee recommended that it was essential that revised income limits should come into operation before 2nd April, when the Legal Advice and Assistance Act is due to come into operation, and that the Government's failure to announce their proposals along the lines of its recommendation leaves the scheme in a state of great uncertainty? In fact, the legal aid scheme is foundering because of the inability to apply realistic income limits.

As I told the hon. Gentleman when he last asked this Question on 26th February, the date of the report of the advisory committee was 6th February and matters were being considered by my noble and learned Friend one of which concerns the matter about which the right hon. and learned Member for West Ham, South (Sir Elwyn Jones) asked me, namely, an annual increase, as with the supplementary benefits scheme. These matters are under consideration, and for that reason I am unable to make a further announcement today.

Is the advisory committee considering the question of making it easier for women who have been awarded alimony under a court order to obtain legal aid in cases where they have not previously been able to get it, or is this matter waiting for the Finer Committee?

I cannot tell the hon. Gentleman the answer to that. The matters with which the advisory committee generally deals are very wide, including the best advice which can be given to my noble and learned Friend about the administration of the legal aid scheme.

Cannot the right hon. and learned Gentleman give an undertaking about the matter with which the Question is concerned, namely, the income limits of eligibility for legal aid? Even if other matters must be given consideration, is not the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the advisory committee said that this matter was of very great urgency? Who is responsible for all the delay, and how are the necessary operations to publicise the scheme to be put into effect before 2nd April if no decision is made?

I appreciate that there is anxiety and a need to know the substantive and definitive decision, but I cannot at present tell the House that this matter has been finally decided.

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall endeavour to raise this matter on the Adjournment at an early stage.

asked the Attorney-General if he will introduce legislation defining the privileges of learned counsel, with particular reference to the degree to which they are permitted, during the course of a legal proceeding, without adequate evidence to impute corrupt or scandalous behaviour to a third person not a party to the proceedings and not represented.

No, Sir.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that this Question does not refer exclusively to the Poulson case, scandalous as some of its aspects are? Is he further aware that in my constituency counsel sought to defend a girl accused of theft by "mugging" the case and by making a charge of sexual assault against a person not represented in the court who was not aware that the charge was to be made? There was not a vestige of truth in it. This sort of thing can imply a serious miscarriage of justice and it is on the increase. Can my right hon. and learned Friend take steps to prevent that sort of injustice from arising?

I cannot accept the facts which my hon. Friend has given without the details. If he affords me the details of the case, I shall ensure that they are considered by the appropriate body. However, it is a matter of public policy that there should be absolute privilege for counsel, judges and witnesses in the administration of justice, just as there is absolute privilege for any Member of the House who refers to any person or any body in the proceedings of the House. The court has a discretion to exclude scandalous or irrelevant questions, and there is a very strict duty on counsel to exclude questions solely to insult and annoy. If my hon. Friend has a specific case in mind and can give chapter and verse for it, as I hope, I shall ensure that it is considered.

Will the Attorney-General nevertheless have another look at this question, because it seems that allegations have been made in the Poulson case which are not accurate? On the other hand, does the right hon. and learned Gentleman accept that any political covering-up of genuine scandal and corruption should not be countenanced by anybody, because corruption in local authority matters is very serious and needs to be rooted out?

I note and agree with the final part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. However, in the administration of justice counsel, if properly instructed, may have to ask questions and make inquiries and even allegations. That is part of achieving the proper administration of justice.

While counsel must guard against being made the channel for questions which are intended only to insult or annoy either the witness or any other person, is it not the case that if there is relevant evidence as to a matter in issue which counsel thinks a judge or jury may accept, and if counsel has instructions from a solicitor to produce it or to put it in cross-examination, it is clearly the duty of learned counsel to do so?

I agree with the right hon. and learned Gentleman. It is very important that counsel should fearlessly, if properly instructed, present his client's case, and that may mean cross-examining witnesses and making suggestions to them. Provided he does that with responsibility, and provided it is based on the instructions given to him by a solicitor, he is properly exercising his duty.

May I ask for your guidance, Mr. Speaker? Has not my Question No. 44 to the Secretary of State for the Environment been transferred to the Attorney-General?

Perhaps I can ask the Attorney-General whether it has been transferred and whether he is prepared to answer it.

The first part of the answer is "No, Sir."