asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will offer the good offices of the Chairman of the London Housing Action Committee to help to resolve the dispute between the contractors and the Kensington-Chelsea Borough Council which has prevented progress on the major World's End housing development.

I understand that the council has terminated the contract and is seeking new tenders to complete the work.

It is good news that steps are at last being taken to ensure a resumption of work on this project which was originally estimated to cost £5½ million and which will provide 742 flats for 2,500 people in one of the worst housing stress areas in the country, but work on the project has been delayed for eight months. Does not the Minister consider it a public scandal that there should have been this delay, and such secrecy on the part of the local authority concerned as to what steps should be taken to resolve the question of the ex- tent to which local ratepayers are likely to be called upon to foot the bill for the excess and for the delay? Will the hon. Gentleman set up an inquiry into the reasons why this has happened. In saying this. I have the—

Order. The hon. Gentleman may not say things. He may only ask a question. Mr. Eyre.

Like the hon. Member for Kensington, North (Mr. Douglas-Mann) I very much regret the loss of the provision of housing in this area of very great need, but I do not think the hon. Gentleman was fair to the local authority because I think he knows that the disputes in this unhappy matter were referred for consideration to the National Joint Council for the Building Industry. The local authority is to consider the scheme again at a meeting later this month. If it decides to accept a new tender to complete the work, I shall do all I can to help it.

Does my hon. Friend agree that matters such as this—and this one happens to be in my constituency—are delicate issues, involving questions of breach of contract, and that it is unhelpful for Members from other constituencies to interfere and to ask questions? Is he aware that work is likely to restart on this important project in my constituency very shortly?

I agree with my hon. Friend that disputes of this kind are very delicate matters, but the important thing is that work should go on. My Department will do everything possible to help the council to complete the work as soon as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will visit Middleton for discussions with all interested parties in Rochdale metropolitan district about the problems of the Langley Overspill Estate and how they might be resolved.

The local authority associations are now being consulted about a circular which will deal with the problems that concern my hon. Friend.

Does my hon. Friend recall that his hon. Friend the Member for Southend, West (Mr. Channon), in a Written Answer in 1970, said that an inquiry by his Department was not considered necessary? Is he aware that unless, in areas such as Middleton, where this problem has arisen there is some overt sign that his Department is finding out for itself why this difficulty exists, there will be lingering dissatisfaction and fear that a decision will be taken which will not be in line with the facts of the situation?

My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that all aspects of this matter have been considered in regard to the circular which I have mentioned and about which consultations are now taking place. We have to explore the possibility of voluntary agreements for transfer or, failing that, to secure adequate representation of tenants' interests with the housing authority.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on his progress in discussing EEC attempts to raise maximum lorry weights.

There has been no meeting of Council Transport Ministers since last December, when the matter was left open for continued discussion this year.

Has the decision of this Parliament been conveyed to the appropriate Common Market authorities? If so, what need is there for further discussions with the Common Market?

The discussion will proceed in the light of the views that were clearly expressed by both sides of the House in the debate to which the hon. Gentleman referred.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend bear in mind, and convey to the Ministers in Brussels, that whatever the long-term economic advantages of raising lorry weights, the road system of East Kent, which bears the brunt of this traffic, is not now, and is not likely to be for some years, adapted to increasing axle weights and overall weights?

Yes, Sir.

In case the right hon. and learned Gentleman is not successful, will he take immediate steps to consult his right hon. Friend the Home Secretary with a view to imposing traffic restrictions in central London, so that long vehicles, for example, may proceed only when they have been cleared by the Metropolitan police, with appropriate escorts?

That is another issue. I have considerable sympathy with the hon. Gentleman's view.

asked the Secretary of Slate for the Environment if he can now say when he will publish the report of the inspector on the proposed West Cross Route motorway in west London.

I anounced my decision and published the inspectors' report on 7th May.

Cannot this report be made available to any member of the public who wishes to have it, and not just to objectors? Further, cannot such reports be published without a six-months' delay?

As I have said, the report is available to objectors. It is not confidential to objectors. They can make it available to whom they like. As for the delay about which the right hon. Gentleman complains, this was a particularly difficult and complex inquiry, involving development plan amendments, a number of compulsory purchase orders, schemes under the Highways Act, and so forth. We expedited it as much as we could.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what further consultations he has had about the allowances to be paid to the members of the new local authorities under the Local Government Act 1972; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment why his announcement of the level of attendance allowances for councillors has been delayed; and if he will make a statement.

This matter is being considered urgently in the light of the general economic situation and the action which is being taken to regulate prices and pay. My right hon. and learned Friend will announce the maximum rate of allowance as soon as he is able to do so.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman feel that he has been remiss in not making an announcement before the local government elections, as he originally promised? Does he appreciate that this has made it extremely difficult for hourly-paid work people who contested elections in making arrangements with their employers? Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that the financial loss allowance is to go and that it will be replaced by an attendance allowance? Will he further confirm that the rates are to be £14 in respect of counties and £12 in respect of district areas?

Dealing with the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, I agree with him, certainly. I regret that the good intentions of my right hon. Friend the present Secretary of State for Trade and Industry and myself were frustrated by the House's passing the Counter-Inflation Act. The attendance allowance is not a salary, but it is a matter which has to be taken into account in the prices and pay legislation, and in policy.

Is the right hon Gentleman saying that the payment to councillors will have to wait until phase 3? On the point of the attendance allowance, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many meetings are now taking place involving considerable financial sacrifice in setting up the new authorities caused by the Government's delay in bringing in the increase now?

That does not affect the situation. The attendance allowance was not intended to come in until 1st April 1974. In the meantime, there will be the increase in the financial loss allowance. It was made clear that the attendance allowance would not start until 1st April 1974.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what representations he has received from Shelter on the subject of help for housing associations operating in stress areas.

I have recently received proposals from Shelter seeking further Government support for certain housing associations.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the report was requested by several leading housing associations in stress areas and, therefore, is worth close attention? Can they be assured that the hon. Gentleman sees the work of housing associations as an addition to council activity and in no way a substitute for it?

On the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, I am studying the matter seriously. I have been concerned with it for only just over a week. I have had other reports on these lines and I want to study them all with great attention.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that in the inner London area especially the housing associations are finding it increasingly difficult to acquire and improve property and then to let it at rents which recover the cost and which are fair to the tenants? Will he look at the situation in London especially and see whether additional assistance to housing associations cannot be made available?

I am considering this at present, and the document makes some reference to that fact.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he intends to take any decisions from the environmental point of view regarding the proposed construction of a new airport at Foulness, in the light of the Civil Aviation Authority's report on airport facilities in South-East England.

There is no change in the decision we have already taken to develop the third London airport at Maplin.

Why is there this Gadarene rush to get the decision through when all informed surveys and objective analyses show that there is not such a crying need for this project? The demand for runway space is not as great as forecast. The reduction in noise will take place anyway by the mid-1980s because 70 per cent. of the total number of aircraft using London airport will be wide-bodied, quiet-engined types. Therefore, on environmental grounds surely there is no need to construct the attendant environmental new towns, environmental seaports, environmental motorways and other such intellectual dishonesties which are a part of the project.

I cannot accept my hon. Friends various assumptions. We determined the principle on Second Reading and I must leave the matter there. The CAA report did not deal with the noise and environmental problems to which my hon. Friend has referred. The House agreed with my view that it was vital to do something to relieve noise nuisance around London Airport and other existing airports. I receive many representations about it. As for quiet aircraft, it is worth bearing in mind what we are saying. Many people who now suffer this noise nuisance will, instead of having the continuous effect of a pneumatic drill outside their houses, have the equivalent of 40-ton lorries.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware of the concern in the Press and among the public about this enormously costly scheme, and the question of its necessity? Is he further aware that his hon. Friend the Undersecretary of State said in Committee that he was considering approaching the Noise Council on the question whether there would be any substantial diminution of noise around Gatwick and Heathrow even if Maplin proceeded? Cannot the right hon. and learned Gentleman delay the Third Reading of the Bill until there is a report on noise, which is the main matter that this House should be considering in respect of such an enormous expenditure of public money?

The factor of noise is very important, and we shall certainly consult the Noise Council about the likely effect. But the general proposition about the need to relieve people of noise around existing London airports is still unexceptional.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that one of the main advantages of the Maplin proposals is that hundreds of thousands of people who now suffer day and night from aircraft noise-especially those living round Gatwick, many of whom are my constituents—will receive some relief from it?

I am sure that my hon. Friend is right in that view.

Will the Government publish full details of the proposed motorway and rail links from London to Maplin before the Third Reading of the Bill?

These matters are being discussed in Committee. Certainly it is our intention to give as much relevant information as possible at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will have discussions with the newly-elected chairmen of the GLC housing committees.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what request he has received to meet the Chairman of the Greater London Council Housing Committee.

I received a request on 8th May to receive a deputation of GLC members and officers, including, no doubt, the council's new housing committee chairman, to discuss various matters relating to housing policy. I welcome such a discussion and steps have now been taken to arrange the meeting.

I welcome the Ministers reply and his willingness to meet the chairman. Will he bear in mind that that gentleman probably has inherited the gravest housing problems of any local authority in the country? Will the hon. Gentleman assure us that his Government will not obstruct or delay the solution of these grave problems? To this end, will the hon. Gentleman discuss with the chairman the urgent need for the strategic use of compulsory purchase orders, and will he begin by speeding up confirmation of the 140 odd CPOs still outstanding in the London area?

Certainly I will consider the last part of the hon. Gentleman's question. I am sure that this is likely to be one of the topics raised at the meeting.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that his attitude will determine the success or failure of the GLC's housing policy? He must be aware that London has become a property paradise for speculators. While they are making fortunes, homeless-ness and the waiting lists of local authorities increase month by month. Does the hon. Gentleman intend to give financial help to the GLC to buy up properties throughout London? When will he take action against those outer authorities which so far refuse to have anything to do with helping to solve the problems of inner London.

I cannot accept what the hon. Gentleman has said about that matter. It would be rash of me to enter into hypothetical discussions over this Dispatch. Box about a meeting which has not yet taken place. We had better wait to see what happens at the meeting.

Is the Minister aware that the housing crisis is not confined to inner London? Thanks to the unprecedented rise in house prices and rents over the last two years and the rather strange attitude of many outer London councils, which seem to regard council housing as inferior and council tenants as people who should not be there, there is a serious problem of homelessness in outer London as well. In welcoming the measures taken by the GLC and the Government's support of the GLC, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to take steps to ensure that the homeless in outer London boroughs do not suffer in comparison with those in inner London?

I am only too anxious to do everything in my power to deal with the problem of homelessness. I have already had one discussion with the London boroughs and the Greater London Council about the matter, and a number of measures are under consideration. I am sure that this is one of the topics which are likely to crop up at the meeting.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the outer London boroughs have problems of their own, with which they are dealing to the best of their ability, and that they have no reason to take care of the problems being created by the inner London boroughs after 30 or 40 years of Socialist rule?

I agree with my hon. Friend that there is a serious problem in Croydon and other outer London boroughs. In the time that I have been in this Department—during the last three years, with a short gap—I have done my utmost to try to help solve the problem of London housing, which is absolutely crucial to all.

The Minister has understandably said that he cannot go into hypothetical questions and answers regarding a prospective discussion with representatives of the Greater London Council. Will he indicate to the House and, indeed, to the country, whether it is the Government's policy to back the GLC and other local authorities in purchasing properties on a massive scale, to put a stop to the kind of speculative activities that are going on in London and to the erosion of the rental market, in an attempt to cut down on homelessness?

I am sure that all these matters will be discussed at the meeting. I do not think that I can unilaterally decide the housing policy for London. That is a matter that the GLC and the boroughs will wish to discuss with me. Each case must be considered on its merits. However, the idea that widespread municipalisation would add a single house to the housing stock is misguided.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what was the monthly mortgage repayment over a 25-year period of a loan of 80 per cent. required to buy an average modern house in June 1970; and what is the present-day comparable figure.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what was the average weekly mortgage payment necessary to buy the average house in the East Midlands in June 1970, and what is the average payment today.

No separate information is available on modern houses, as such. On the basis of an 80 per cent. mortgage for 25 years, the average net monthly repayment by all first-time purchasers on houses bought in the United Kingdom in the second quarter of 1970, was £19·75 in the first year. The comparable figure for houses bought in the last quarter of 1972 was £32·74. No reliable information for individual quarters is available on a regional basis.

That does not seem like cutting prices "at a stroke". Does the hon. Gentleman realise that due to the tremendous increase in the cost of houses, the increase in interest rates and the reluctance on the part of building societies to lend money to young couples, these young couples are being driven into buying third- and fourth-rate houses at a terrific cost and going to finance houses for loans which bear tremendous interest rates? When will the Government do something for young couples who need homes?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that building society figures show that the number of first-time purchasers has increased, comparing 1970 with 1972, that the number of borrowers under 25 years of age has substantially increased, and that the number of borrowers with incomes up to average industrial manual workers' earnings has also risen substantially over two years.

Does my hon. Friend agree, putting the matter in perspective, that one must accept that average industrial earnings have risen by nearly 50 per cent. in this period?

There was a substantial rise in average earnings over the period mentioned. The rise in incomes has increased the capacity of people to compete in the housing market.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I have just been to the Library and ascertained that over that period the increase in average earnings was 34 per cent., whereas the average payment that he is announcing is about 51 per cent. or 52 per cent.? How can we bridge that gap when we have a wage freeze and when house prices are still rising?

The hon. Gentleman is right about there being a problem for young married first-time purchasers. One way that this problem can be met is for local authorities to encourage building schemes for direct sale. We are encouraging local authorities to develop low-cost housing schemes of that kind.

Is my hon. Friend in a position to state that more or less unlimited funds will be available for local authorities to grant mortgages?

Compared with the Labour Government, we have provided greatly increased funds to local authorities for mortgages, and these have been very helpful to special categories of borrowers in particularly difficult situations.

As the hon. Gentleman wishes local authorities to help the homeless and young couples, is he now prepared to withdraw the circular that he sent out, which prevents local authority direct-labour schemes competing? Is he aware that in Hebburn there is a fine example of that local authority's direct-labour scheme building for sale, in that the prices were so much cheaper than private contractors could offer that the district valuer asked the authority to increase them beyond what it wanted to charge?

There is no question of that circular being withdrawn. There is plenty of scope for direct-labour organisations to get on with other work. This type of work is particularly suitable for the kind of competitive contracting that we require.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment as soon as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he proposes to take a decision on the construction of the Fleet Line to Lewisham.

After we have seen the London Rail Study's report.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman bear in mind that the Fleet Line is an essential part of a decent public transport system in south-east London and Lewisham and that as we are not now to have Ringway I people will expect the Government to devote all the released resources to building the Fleet Line?

All the various factors will be taken into account. Stages 2 and 3 of the Fleet Line, including all the options, were discussed in the dockland study, but, as the team said, it is not an essential part of the study. It would be wise to await the report of the study.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will seek powers to require an immediate test, on the lines of the present MOT test, of all models of car the manufacturers of which have recalled them owing to defects which could affect safety.

No, Sir.

Will the hon. Gentleman think again about that answer? Is he aware that, according to AA figures, in the last six years about 750,000 cars—about one car in every eight—have been subject to recall because of dangerous—not ordinary—defects? Is he aware that fewer than half of those cars have actually been recalled and that, therefore, about 300,000 cars that are now on the roads have defects which the manufacturers themselves describe as dangerous? In the public interest, in the interests of other drivers, and of the drivers of these cars themselves, will the Minister do something about this matter?

I have seen the article in Drive magazine, to which the hon. Gentleman refers. It is true that many owners fail to respond to these calls, but there are problems of enforcement. The relevant defects might be outside the range of testing and I would have to be satisfied, therefore, on evidence, that the time and money involved would be effective in road safety terms. I have no such evidence at this time.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he expects to complete the studies designed to formulate a total approach to the problems of the urban inner areas; and if he will make a statement.

I am now considering the proposals in the consultants' project reports for programmes of study and experimental action to be carried out over a period of two-to-three years. I hope to announce details of the next stage of the studies in July.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend note that this study was started largely by a group of voluntary enthusiasts in Liverpool, and that they have now been awaiting replies to the most recent report for the best part of 12 months? Will he take cognisance of the fact that we want to retain this enthusiasm to assist in this situation?

I am sure that we should take advantage of the valuable work done by the voluntary bodies, not least in the Liverpool area and the area with which my hon. Friend is concerned. It will certainly form part of the consideration of the studies and will be placed in this broader context. I entirely agree with what my hon. Friend says about a total approach to the urban areas. That is of the utmost importance.

Is the Secretary of State aware that at least part of his reply will be very disturbing to many people, in the House and elsewhere? Does he consider it satisfactory that, having undertaken a study over a period on a theme which has now become widely accepted, as he admits—the needs of the inner city—there should be yet further years of study? Is it not right that some conclusions should be reached about the machinery of local and national government to deal with the inner city problems?

I am sure that the studies must continue, perhaps for years to come. That is the way in which we learn more about these problems. I should certainly like to see progress made and I agree that we cannot always wait for some action somewhere until we have received all the studies imaginable.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend take into consideration the Report on Urban Transport Planning which was presented some time ago by the Sub-Committee on the Environment and the Home Office of the Expenditure Committee? If he does, will he also make some representations to the Treasury to the effect that, if public transport is to be considered in the proper terms taxis should be relieved of VAT, because taxis are part of public transport? We want a proper approach to this matter and not more studies, because a good deal of information is available in that report.

I shall certainly take into account the report to which my hon. Friend has referred. It was certainly a valuable one. As to representations to the Treasury, I am making those all the time about one thing or another.

Is the Secretary of State aware that what, above all, is needed to deal with the problems of inner urban areas, such as my constituency, is sufficient money? Is he aware that the pollution and dereliction which make the lives of thousands of my constituents a daily misery can be solved only if the Government provide sufficient finance to sweep them away?

Money is a problem for all Governments. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that we must so deploy our resources as to ensure that priority is given to the most urgent needs. I believe that these now arise in housing in the inner urban areas.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what study he has given to the latest report of the Scottish Council (Develop- ment and Industry) regarding the impact on regional policy of capital expenditure programmes on airports, seaports, roads and rail services in the south-east of England; and if he will make a statement regarding the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

The council's report has not been submitted to the Government, though I have been given a copy on request. I can see nothing in current expenditure programmes which is inconsistent with regional policy.

Does not my right hon. and learned Friend consider that at a time when the assumed growth of public expenditure is in obvious and urgent need of some control the expenditure of thousands of millions of pounds on long-range capital programmes in the southeast of England is all too liable to lead to demands for countervailing expansion of expenditure by, for example, the Minister for Industrial Development in other parts of the country, which will lead to a vicious circle of still more rising expenditure?

That report has still to be considered by the council. I do not believe that what my hon. Friend has said arises out of consideration of that report. On the whole, we have dealt as generously as possible with Scotland. It is a mistake to imagine that because a project in one part of the country is halted another is necessarily helped.

Is the Secretary of State aware that there is grave disquiet throughout the regions about the scale of the resources—in terms not only of finance but of labour and expertise—which are being diverted to such projects as the Maplin Airport development and the Channel Tunnel? Is he further aware that the House was conned by the Government over Maplin because they signally failed to provide detailed evidence of the necessity for, and the detailed costings and economics of, this project?

I do not accept any of those propositions. This Government, like their predecessors, have been very conscious of the need to have balanced public expenditure programmes of the sort that benefit the economy as a whole, and therefore the regions, but we have always had particular regard for regional considerations over many years. Indeed, it was the Conservative Government in 1963–64 who really set in hand the regional development policies, particularly in the North-East, Scotland, and elsewhere.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what steps he is taking to reduce the incidence of unlicensed vehicles on the roads.

Enforcement effort is being increased, particularly in the London area. In the longer term the centralisation of vehicle licensing will make it easier to identify unlicensed vehicles and open up new ways of dealing with them.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is grave disquiet throughout the country at the fact that far too few people license their motor cars? Is he further aware that a survey by the director of the highways department of the GLC in my constituency, which suffers from a large influx of parked vehicles, revealed that 10 per cent. were untaxed, so that it is not unreasonable to assume that this is going on throughout the country, with all the ramifications, such as the likelihood that they do not have an MoT test, or proper insurance? Will he consider calling a conference of local authorities responsible for taxation, the police and his Department, to remedy this situation?

No. With respect, I do not think that a conference is the answer. This year we are increasing the number of enforcement staff in London by 150—this is the key to the problem in the short term—and by 48 in other parts of the country. I am aware of these problems. We are now providing the bodies on the ground to deal with it.

But do bodies on the ground necessarily produce results? Has my hon. Friend not learned from the increase in the bureaucracy, for example, what bodies on the ground connote? Will he take a leaf from the book of the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications, who has succeeded in reducing television licence evasion by as much as 60 per cent. during the last two years, whereas the motor vehicle licensing position has gone exactly the opposite way?

Whether bodies on the ground help or not, I am pleased to tell my hon. Friend that last year the number of reports dealt with by court procedure or mitigated penalties was 9 per cent. up on 1971. We must do better than that, but these 200 additional enforcement staff will make an impact in the short term.

Why not simplify the whole procedure by abolishing car licences and stepping up the tax on petrol?

That is another matter, which is for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer and not myself.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will make a statement on the progress of his inquiry into the standards of motorway service areas.

I have now been able to visit officially some service areas in this country, and I hope soon to visit more before I have discussions with the operators.

Regarding my hon. Friend's visits to motorway service areas, is he aware that no Minister can make a greater self-sacrifice in the public interest than by condemning himself voluntarily to a diet of motorway food? Seriously, does my hon. Friend recognise that there is grave dissatisfaction about the standards of these service areas, particularly on the Ml? Will he, therefore, take measures to consult consumers to see what improvements they want?

I take my hon. Friend's point. I was delighted to see him consuming food at a motorway service area that I visited recently, and sharing in the agonies of that, perhaps. A survey of public opinion will start at the end of this month. This will include many thousands of users—commercial and business men and tourists. We are very interested in the public's views. I am determined that, following this exercise and with the co-operation of the operators we shall radically improve the standards of these areas.

Is the Minister aware that many of us consume not only motorway food but motorway prices, at least twice-weekly, as we drive to our constituencies. When he completes his inquiry, as an adjunct to it will he publish details of the profitability and turnover of all the motorway service stations, in view of the quite excessive increases in price in these cafes in recent years?

I do not accept that there have been excessive increases in price. In recent years many operators have been making no profit, or very little profit, on their operation. They have to provide a 24-hour service, free lavatories, parking, and so on. By the terms of the contracts that we have, the taxpayer shares very much in any profits that these service areas make; so it is not all on one side.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what representations he has received regarding his proposal for an expansion of Stevenage; and what arrangements he has made for a public inquiry.

I am considering the development corporation's report on expansion based on the feasibility studies and public participation exercise it has carried out. I am also considering representations made to me direct by local organisations and individuals. If in the light of these I decide to make a draft order to extend the designated area, that will be advertised. If objections are made, a public inquiry will be held.

Will the Minister confirm that the representations that he has received are overwhelmingly against expansion? Does he agree that the inquiry will be totally independent, in spite of any pronouncements that may have been made by his predecessor? Finally, and more generally, may I ask the Minister about the implications of re-opening a major public inquiry—in which a great deal of money has been spent by objectors—only a few years after a decision was made by a previous administration?

On the latter point, the fact that it has been inquired into is a relevant consideration. Circumstances do change. I shall, as I have assured the hon. Lady, bear in mind the various representations that have been made to me. Inevitably, the bulk of representations is always against expansion, because I am afraid that in many cases the attitude is, "We will not have Heaven crammed; let all the rest be damned."

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he is aware of delays in awaiting driving test appointments in the north-western and in the western areas, respectively, leading to complaints to his Department; what steps he is taking to expedite these appointments by the recruitment of additional instructors, including temporary examiners, to meet the current situation; and whether he will make a statement on the anticipated reduction in driving test delays.

Yes, Sir. Additional examiners are being recruited as quickly as possible. My right hon. and learned Friend prefers to concentrate on recruiting permanent, fully qualified examiners. Despite this recruitment drive, my right hon. and learned Friend regrets that it will take some time to achieve the substantial improvement which is necessary.

Does not my hon. Friend realise that there are people in my constituency and elsewhere who are now being called upon to wait up to nine months to receive their licences, which is wholly unreasonable? Surely the fault lies with the pay scale for examiners imposed by the Ministry. Is it reasonable to place a top level of £1,700 a year on an examiner's salary, when examiners ought to command salaries of at least £3,000 a year?

My hon. Friend will be glad to know that we are increasing the bureaucracy, as he has put it, to the tune of 238 additional examiners this year.

Will the Minister take steps to increase the stringency of the driving test because there are people who, despite having passed it, persist in driving the wrong way round roundabouts, and buy themselves out of trouble in a court of law?

Anyone driving the wrong way around a roundabout during his test is likely to be failed. The failure rate at present is 53 per cent. This is one of the problems that we face. If we could get a higher pass rate it would ease the situation and reduce the waiting time.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will include the New Towns Commission among the housing authorities which will be invited to submit plans to build houses for sale at the permitted discount from unrestricted market value on land they own.

No, Sir. But my right hon. Friend hopes that new town local authorities will, like local authorities elsewhere, come forward with schemes designed for this purpose. The commission and the development corporations are being asked to help where possible in making land available to those authorities.

How can the fact be justified that the New Towns Commission, or a housing authority acting in the same area as a local authority, should not be able to offer the same terms and conditions as the local authority, in offering a discount on the prices of houses built for sale?

Because the needs for extending home ownership in new towns are met in three main ways. The first is that anyone who qualifies for a new town rented house may buy it at a discount. Secondly, houses built for sale by private developers in new towns are available for newcomers. Thirdly, the new town local authorities can bring forward schemes for low-cost sponsored houses in the way that I have described to second generation families in those towns wherever appropriate.

The hon. Gentleman sounds very convincing in his appeal in regard to house building for those who want to buy houses, but why has he seen fit to issue Circular 60/73, which prevents direct works departments from building houses for sale at considerably lower prices than their competitors? Why has he seen fit specifically to deny local authorities that right?

That is another question, which is not relevant to the new towns situation. Direct labour organisations have plenty of work on hand, and it is very suitable for the private enterprise building industries to tender competitively for the contracts that the hon. Gentleman describes.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will instruct the Commission for New Towns and New Town Development Corporations to offer flats and maisonettes for sale to tenants.

The commission and the corporations may already sell flats and maisonettes to sitting tenants. I am considering further advice to encourage an increased rate of sale.

I could not follow my hon. Friend's reply. Is the answer 'Yes" or "No"?

The answer is broadly "Yes", and I shall be issuing advice shortly.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a further statement on the long-term protection of the Metropolitan green belt.

As I said in my statement on the report of the inquiry into the Greater London Development Plan, we are determined to preserve an effective green belt around London.

I am grateful for that general reply. Does not my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the green belt in the outer London areas is an essential part of the total environment and should be freely available to all members of the public? What proportion of inner London's immediate housing needs does my right hon. and learned Friend consider could be met by full-scale comprehensive development of London dockland areas?

The question of what can be met by a comprehensive development of the dockland area is a separate one.

Will the Minister consider the new phenomenon which has grown up, certainly in the Middlesex area, in which a remarkable growth of warehousing seems to be taking place in what could be green belt areas? Is he prepared to examine the complaints of residents when they submit features which they believe ought to be examined by him and which are refused by the local authority? Warehouses seem to be taking precedence over all forms of industrial activity.

In the first instance these arc matters for the local planning authority. If it allows a warehouse on what should be green belt land that is a matter for it to consider. The authority and other interested parties can make representations about what should be added to the green belt. When matters come to me I shall naturally bear in mind all the relevant considerations.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that nowhere is the green belt more precious than in the county of Hertfordshire, the population of which has doubled since the war? Is he aware that the county council, the Hertfordshire Society and all those who love Hertfordshire are against any further increase in the population, as is suggested for the expansion of Stevenage?

That is certainly a factor to be borne in mind in considering the expansion of Stevenage, but if we do not expand Stevenage by a certain proportion we may have to consider 2,000 acres or so in the existing Metropolitan green belt. What we have to decide in trying to deal with the housing situation is where it is right to build houses, and very often difficult considerations have to be borne in mind. The land, however, must be provided from somewhere.

To talk about releasing 2,000 acres out of 610,000 acres of green belt represents a derisory contribution to the solution of London's housing problem. Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman conduct a further investigation to find out how many more hundreds, if not thousands, of acres may be made available near London to solve the desperate housing problem of the inner London boroughs'?

That shows the dilemma that one faces. The hon. Member calls it a derisory contribution and others call it an outrageous attack upon the whole principle of the green belt. Neither view is correct. It is one of the factors that should be taken into account in trying to deal with the considerable housing problem of the inner areas of our cities.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he is satisfied with the current criteria for determining 30 mph speed limits in villages; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. However, they are being kept under review, and, as my hon. Friend knows, I am always prepared to look into particular cases.

Does my hon. Friend agree that when it is not possible to build a bypass round a village, and when traffic in that village is heavy and continuous, it makes sense to impose a 30 mph speed limit? Will he alter the criteria for determining this limit, so that a number of villages in my constituency may qualify—which is what the majority of people living there want?

In the first place it is for the local authority to make an order for limits on principal roads. My right hon. and learned Friend has to give his consent. Studies have shown, however, that realistic speed limits reduce speed and accidents, and unrealistic ones are largely ignored and therefore devalue the whole exercise.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he expects the further investigation into alternative sites for the fluorspar crushing plant in Weardale to be completed; and if he will make a statement.

The timing depends on the British Steel Corporation, in consultation with Durham County Council. Meanwhile, my right hon. and learned Friend expects to receive early next month professional advice on the architectural treatment of the proposed plant.

I share the right hon. Gentleman's concern that we get the right answer to this very difficult problem. The original application was made in 1971. This is an important development for the area, whatever site is chosen. Will the right hon. Gentleman therefore impart real urgency to the matter, so that a decision is made known quickly?

I share the hon. Member's feeling of urgency. The British Steel Corporation has an urgent need for fluorspar. The project will involve about 170 jobs, but it is important to find the right place. The urgency is recognised by the corporation and the county council. The corporation, the local planning authority and my Department had a meeting only this morning to consider the requirements of the further consideration which my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State asked to be taken into account.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on the current operation of the housing cost yardsticks, including any plans to increase or further vary the differing regional rates.

The arrangements introduced last November are designed to enable local authority schemes to proceed at a cost which reflects local market conditions. The special market allowances given, where necessary, for individual schemes provide the flexibility needed in the present tendering situaton. I am keeping the arrangements under close review.

I appreciate that the housing cost yardsticks are more flexible than many critics suggest, particularly in the so-called stress areas, since the measures that my hon. Friend announced last November. Does he agree, however, that a totally new approach is needed to this matter, so that resources are given where need is greatest and where officials from the regional departments can check the special claims in the areas of need to see that profiteering is not taking place and to put a real spurt behind what is at present an artificial method of assessing housing costs?

I have a great deal of sympathy with what my hon. Friend said. As he knows, I did not introduce the yardstick system. It has a number of difficulties, which I am considering.

I certainly agree that over a number of years the housing cost yardstick has introduced financial discipline into this area, where it was previously sorely lacking. Will the Minister support an attempt to seek a totally new approach to this matter by undertaking consultation with the professionals in the field, with local authorities and others, in order to try to work out methods of bringing about efficient common sample testing around the country to ensure that profiteering, inefficiency and financial indiscipline are not occurring?

I shall bear in mind the view that my hon. Friend and the hon. Member have put forward in considering this complicated and difficult matter.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will list, by economic planning regions, the number of oil refineries for which planning permission has been granted since 1970.

I have consulted my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland and my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Wales; I understand that in addition to the two permissions for new refineries granted in south-east England one was granted in Wales; there was none in any other economic planning region.

Will the right hon. Gentleman not concede that the expansion of oil activity offshore makes it essential that we get away from the concentration of oil refineries in the South-East, which is harmful to the population there? We should be able to build relatively pollution-free refineries in other parts of the United Kingdom.

I have little doubt that there may be application for oil refineries which will be convenient to North Sea oil. However, it is for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to decide on industrial development certificates. Certainly, the last permission which was given in the South-East was to replace an existing permission which would have located a refinery in a far worse place, and which was granted as long ago as 1965.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that his right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State said that there would be no oil refinery developments at Maplin but that nevertheless, since that statement, he has given permission and has overruled his inspector's recommendation that there should be no oil refinery on Canvey Island? Was that the refinery to which the Minister just referred, or was that a new development? If it is a new development, is it not wrong that it should be located in that area, in contradiction of the right hon. Gentleman's previous ban?

The one I referred to was indeed the refinery on Canvey Island. The recent permission given took the place of the permission originally given in 1965. The latest permission is in respect of a much better place, because it leaves a wide gap between South Benfleet and Canvey Island.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will seek power to enable lodger charges affected by Section 66(4) of the Housing Finance Act to be cancelled in the event of a tenant ceasing to have a lodger.

No, Sir. I consider that those local authorities which did not abolish such charges before the Housing Finance Act came into force have adequate discretionary powers to deal with any problems that may arise.

That answer is just not good enough. Does the Minister not accept that there is an immediate need for action to remedy the indefensible situation that is arising as a direct result of the Housing Finance Act? The Minister is invariably courteous and considerate to hon. Members. Will he not extend the same qualities to tenants, who cannot be expected in every case to ask local authorities to apply the very complicated discretion under the Act?

To do what the hon. Member would like would need legislation. This matter was debated at considerable length during the proceedings on the Bill, in which the hon. Member and I both took some part. Discretionary powers are given to local authorities, and I think that they can meet most of the problems by use of them.

Surely the situation is indefensible. Once the charge has been imposed and the lodger has departed there is no justification for the continued charging of the fee. In the circumstances the Minister should immediately order the abolition of the provision.

I seem to remember the hon. Member for Swansea, East (Mr. McBride) also taking some part in the debates. I understand his point of view. It would require legislation to do what he suggests and it would mean that some tenants who were, by definition, paying less than a fair rent would receive a rent reduction while others would have their rents increased. That is not a particularly just way of proceeding.

Is the Minister aware that I. too, have great reservations about the whole practice of introducing lodger charges. If he refers to Section 115 of his Act he may find that it would be unnecessary to introduce fresh legislation. Me has powers in that section to vary the operation of any part of the Act, and he can adopt a variation of local authority rent policies.

I must confess that I have not studied Section 115 for a few days. I shall consider the matter after Question Time.