asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on the procedure for tendering for local authority house building contracts in Wales.

The tendering procedures are laid down in Welsh Office Circular 69/67; I will send the hon. Member a copy. They are designed broadly to ensure that value for money is obtained.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, from 1st July, all Welsh local authorities will be required to advertise contracts worth £415,000 or more in the Journal of the EEC? Will he support Swansea City Council in its opposition to this unwanted law? Will he understand that Welsh local authorities wish Welsh craftsmen to build Welsh houses for Welsh people without any inhibiting influences? Where does he stand on that?

I understand the hon. Member's concern about this, but the reasons in the circular to which I have referred have been well understood. With regard to the EEC point, my right hon. and learned Friend and I are very much aware of that.

The Ministers may be aware of it, but what are they going to do about it? Will the hon. Gentleman tell me that Welsh firms will have priority, in view of the state of our industry in Wales? Is he aware that there is considerable indignation that we have to advertise in the Common Market for people who may be undercutting our own firms?

I am sure the right hon. Gentleman knows as well as we all do that the situation in the building industry in Wales at the moment is very overheated. He will not be suggesting that all building in Wales should be done by Welshmen. Many firms come from England and Scotland and certain firms may come from overseas. Naturally, on most occasions they will employ Welsh people to do these jobs.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, while we would like to give Welsh firms the work, what we would desperately like in Pembrokeshire is to see any contracting firms able and willing to take on the desperately needed work that we have to give them? Therefore, we would welcome any firm, from wherever it might come, to do the work that we urgently need.

My hon. Friend is right. The situation in his constituency is as difficult as in any constituency in Wales with regard to overheating. It is a great problem to find the necessary builders to do the jobs at the moment in this time of boom.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales on what date he received his inspector's report of the public inquiry into the proposed Llantrisant New Town.

It was received in the Welsh Office on 7th June. I am studying the report, which is very long, and I will publish it and announce my decision as soon as possible.

Is it the fact that the finding of the right hon. and learned Gentleman's inspector is not in favour of the new town? Will the Secretary of State now make the report available, whatever considerations and deliberations he might wish to have, so that local authorities whose future planning greatly depends on this report can then make it public? There is no reason why what the inspector has said should be an official secret.

The hon. Gentleman will not expect me to comment on the contents of the inspector's report before a decision is taken. An inspector's report by itself has no standing until I come to a conclusion on it. That is the reason why I refused to publish the report on the Cardiff hook road. Certainly, I hope to come to a conclusion on this very long report as soon as possible.

My hon. Friend's point is valid. Surely the Secretary of State must realise what an inhibiting factor this is on areas like those of my hon. Friend and myself, which are urgently in need of industrial development. Firms are reluctant to take decisions in view of what may be found in the Llantrisant inquiry report.

I appreciate that it is important that a decision be taken as soon as possible, and, as I said, I intend to do so. But it is a long report, which took the inspector almost a year to prepare. I intend to consider it carefully and, I hope, come to the right decision.

Has the Secretary of State also received the interlinked reports on the sewage works and the line of the M4 from Llantrisant? If so, will he consider giving priority to these considerations, because in particular the sewage works is desperately needed to support the increase in population that will go to Llantrisant naturally?

I expect to receive the associated reports on the M4 and the sewage disposal works shortly. It is probable that the three reports will be considered concurrently, but it is not possible at this stage to say when decisions will be made or in what order.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what recent discussions he has had with the British Transport Docks Board about Welsh port prospects.

My office continues to keep in close touch with the port director and his staff, and I am fully informed of all developments.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman appreciate that the Newport docks are probably facing the greatest challenge in their history due to the shortsightedness of BSC in taking away the iron ore trade, and that they also expect a challenge from Bristol? Does he appreciate nevertheless that, due to efficient management and an excellent labour force, we are not pessimistic about the outcome, but will he take whatever steps are possible to help ensure the survival of the port?

I certainly fully appreciate the importance of Newport part. The hon. Gentleman will know that the dock access road to the port is in the firm programme. I am happy to say that the port made a substantial profit last year.

When does the Secretary of State expect to receive the report of the conference held recently at St. Malo, attended by representatives of the peripheral areas of the Community, dealing amongst other things with the problems of maritime communication? If so, will he have the report published?

I have not as yet received the report but I look forward to receiving it. I note what the hon. Member says.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects to announce the decisions taken on the advice tendered by the task force set up to consider the consequences for Flint-shire of the rundown of steelmaking at Shotton.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he proposes to make public his recommendations regarding the report of his Shotton Steelworks task force.

The task force has not yet completed its wide-ranging consultations. I expect to receive its final report before the end of the month. The Government's decisions will be announced as soon as possible thereafter.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that the process of demoralisation which set in with the announcement of the proposed rundown of steelmaking at Shotton is now accelerating dangerously? Does he not consider that there is now great urgency to announce at least four things: first, that there will be a massive injection of investment into the coking side at Shotton; second, that every incentive will be offered to new steel-using industry to come into the area; third, that we shall have a very early announcement of a decision on the Dee estuary scheme; and fourth, that there will be a massive road programme for North Wales?

All those matters which have been referred to by my hon. Friend are matters which have been urged on the task force. The task force has had very wide-ranging consultations and is preparing its final report. As I say, I hope to receive that report shortly. I can assure my hon. Friend that the Government will pay particular attention not only to the recommendations of the task force but to the submissions which have been made by all interested parties.

Will the Secretary of State please recommend special development area status for Deeside? Is not the problem of persuading new industries to come to Deeside not only an expensive but a world-wide problem, and would not that merit special Government financial aid? Finally, has the task force fully comprehended the attitude of the Shotton steel men towards the closure, namely, that they are unimpressed by the brochure produced by BSC which, they believe is lamentably inadequate as a case for ending steelmaking at Shotton?

The task force has certainly received representations on Government assistance from a wide variety of interests, and it will he reporting on this issue in full in its final report to me.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what instructions he has given regarding the investigation of the contents of the drums of chemicals at Maendy and Brofiscun quarries.

I have already re-received from Monsanto Limited a detailed list of material tipped. I have also asked the waste disposal firm concerned to provide any additional information it has of the materials deposited, to supplement that already available in the Welsh Office. I am maintaining close liaison with the local authorities which have the initial responsibility under the Public Health Act to investigate.

Does not the Secretary of State realise that in the New Scientist of 21st June a Welsh Office official is reported as saying that Welsh Office officials have not investigated the drums of chemicals on the site because it was not their job to do so? In view of the right hon. and learned Gentlemen's environmental responsibility, which is a responsibility of his Department and not of local authorities, does he not agree that it is a wise precaution that any drums which are apparent on the site should be opened and examined to see that their contents are as described, when any necessary action can be taken?

I certainly understand that people are concerned that everything possible should be done, but there are certain limits to my statutory powers. The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that under Part III of the Public Health Act local public health authorities have the responsibility to investigate accumulations or deposits which may be considered to be prejudicial to health or a nuisance and to take action if they think that is necessary. I am sure that they fully understand their responsibilities.

In view of the wide circulation of stories and rumours concerning these two quarries, can the Secretary of State give an indication of the number of similiar sites in various parts of Wales and can he say whether he is taking any steps to check those as well?

Yes. Investigations are being made throughout the whole of Wales to ascertain what tipping has taken place over the years. Local authorities were asked by me a long time ago to send in a report. Wide investigation is being made by Government Departments of the whole of the tipping problem which may exist throughout the United Kingdom.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects to report on proposals put to him by the Heads of the Valleys authorities for the industrial development of the Heads of the Valleys area.

The views of the standing conference of the Heads of the Valleys authorities are being taken into account by the Ebbw Vale task force which will be reporting to me shortly, and also in connection with the Heads of the Valleys study.

In view of the apparent indifference of the right hon. and learned Gentleman's Department about doing anything positive over the years for this area, and in view of the euphoria we heard last week by his right hon. Friend about what the EEC can do and will do for central and peripheral areas, will he consider seeking the aid of the EEC to treat the area as a special area, as is now being considered by the Clyde Port Authority for the Hunterston area?

The question of EEC aid or regional aid is in process of being negotiated at the moment. I certainly disagree with the hon. Gentleman when he talks about Government indifference to this area. He knows that I initiated this Heads of the Valleys study. A report was put in by my office a year ago, and it was not until April that we received the recommendations and suggestions of the local authorities. At the moment, I think it will be agreed that it is right that the task force for Ebbw Vale should continue its investigations and make the necessary representations.

More specifically, will the Secretary of State appreciate that for the industrial land reclamation in this area, as proposed by the task force and as shown in the Heads of the Valleys study, £3 million a year is needed to clear the thousands of acres of derelict land required for the development? Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman endorse this specific proposal so that we can get on with the job?

It will be agreed, I think, that the advance in the clearance of derelict land in this area over the last two or three years has been quite remarkable. It is my wish that this should continue, because I agree that this is extremely important.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what delays are being experienced in the setting of dates for appeals on planning matters.

At present the average time between lodging a planning appeal and inquiry is about 40 weeks.

Is the Minister aware that appellants are able to persuade his office that the dates fixed for hearing are unsuitable and that while this practice is repeated they are able to get extra time to carry out the activities which are objected to? Without expecting the Minister to comment on a particular case, may I ask him whether he is aware that in one case in the Port Talbot area there are allegations of serious traffic implications where the enforcement notice was authorised and served on 19th January 1972, the first date of hearing was 2nd January 1973, this was put off until 3rd April 1973 and there is still no date? Does not this make nonsense of effective planning machinery? Do we have to wait for a serious accident before this matter is determined?

I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman for bringing this particular case to my attention. If he will let me have details, I shall look into it immediately.

What is the average period of time between the hearing of an oral appeal and the publication of the Minister's decision? Is not the continuous delay in these matters directly attributable to the fact that there is in the Welsh Office no third Minister to whom it was formerly traditional to delegate such day-to-day matters?

No. We find it possible to do more work in the Welsh Office with two Ministers than the Labour Party did with three.

That proves my case.

Does not the Minister of State agree that 14 weeks is an unconscionably long time? Would not the situation be eased by the appointment of additional inspectors? Does not the Minister's right hon. and learned Friend agree that that is the step we should now be taking?

Yes, I agree with the right hon. Gentleman. The time lag is about the same in England. We are trying to increase the number of inspectors, and we are doing so. This is the bottleneck and not the one to which the hon. Member for Cardigan (Mr. Elystan Morgan) referred.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has for the future use of the site and buildings presently occupied by the hospital at Gelligaer which was originally paid for by the ratepayers of the urban area and which is being closed by his decision.

The property is no longer required for hospital purposes and arrangements are in hand to dispose of it.

Will the Minister accept, however, that an important matter of equity is involved? When Governments sequestrate assets paid for by ratepayers of local authorities in pursuit of Government policy and a subsequent Government find that these assets are surplus to requirements, should not the assets be returned unconditionally to the ratepayers who originally paid for them, to be disposed or by the local authority as it sees fit? If the Minister has no powers to do this, will he press his Government to legislate in order that equity may be achieved?

It has always been the policy when disposing of surplus hospital land to sell at the best price reasonably obtainable. I understand that the local authorities concerned are not wishful to put either of these buildings to any particular use.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will ask the Welsh Council to study the Hardman Report as it affects Wales and advise him as to its conclusions on it.

I would welcome the views of all interested parties on this report.

That does not answer my Question. Is the Minister proposing to refer this matter to the Welsh Council? Will he say whether he is satisfied with the recommendations of the Hardman Report? Is he aware that the report was received with great disappointment in Wales, particularly in North Wales, bearing in mind that the Labour Government were able to disperse 11,000 jobs to Wales in a comparatively short period? Is the Minister aware that a few hundred jobs in North Wales, where unemployment is extraordinarily high, would be a great easement in that area? Will he impress that point upon his right hon. Friends in the Government?

I was certainly attempting to answer the right hon. Gentleman's Question. What I was saying was that the Government welcome the comments of all interested bodies, including the Welsh Council, if they wish to make observations on the report. Final decisions on the recommendations will not be made until there has been an opportunity for all the comments to be considered.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that in my constituency, so far from receiving anything from the Hardman Report, despite our obvious attractions as an area of dispersion, we are, on the contrary, threatened with a loss of Civil Service jobs if the proposal to close Kimmel Camp goes ahead?

Yes, I am aware of the matter which my hon. Friend raises. I am also aware of the reports made by Flintshire on that matter.

We realise that the Secretary of State is aware of all these things, but once again we must ask whether he will make it clear to his colleagues in the Government that this report is just not good enough to meet the problems of Wales. The fact that 11,000 jobs, as recommended in the report, would go to the overcrowded South-East while only 4,000 jobs would come to Wales is a disgrace. Cardiff itself could gobble up those 4,000 jobs and still be in need of more jobs.

The recommendation of the Hardman Report is that 5,500 jobs should be allocated to Wales and to the Cardiff-Newport area.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what recent discussions he has had with the British Transport Docks Board and with Welsh highway authorities about the need for improving trunk roads serving and leading to the South Wales docks.

None, Sir, but my officials will shortly be meeting representatives of the docks board and the local highway authorities to discuss road access to Barry docks.

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for that last sentence. Is he aware that in Barry the local borough council, the docks manager and many organisations have tried hard, not without some success, to get new industry and docks trade but have been sadly hampered by the very poor road communications which serve the port?

Yes. I know that there is local concern about the adequacy of road access to Barry docks. I am pleased that my office has been invited to participate in a discussion with the docks board and the local authority.

Does not the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that his optimistic statements about the future of South Wales ports are invariably followed by support for measures which can only undermine them—for example, the port of Bristol expansion scheme? Does he not agree that, if the South Wales ports are to have any long-term future, a massive rescue operation is necessary?

Any statement that I make about South Wales ports which can be construed as optimistic is made because I am echoing the views of the British Transport Docks Board.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will establish the headquarters of the Welsh National Water Authority in one of the towns of Mid-Wales.

I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to the hon. And learned Member for Montgomery (Mr. Hooson) on 21st February 1972. I hope to make an announcement shortly.—[Vol. 831, c. 192].

Does not the Secretary of State agree that, as this area supplies so much of the water needed by the country, it would be only fair to establish the headquarters there? Does he not agree that that would be a contribution towards the growth towns policy—something that is long overdue from his Department in the past three years?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that I have been considering all the relevant factors and that the claims of Mid-Wales will be taken fully into account.

Whether or not they are taken into account, the net result is that there have been no dispersal jobs from central Government to Mid-Wales during the last three years and that there is no dispersal planned in the foreseeable future. Is the Secretary of State willing to fight manfully in the Cabinet to put right this wrong?

Any decision made will be one which I shall make alone. I shall not require the consent of my Cabinet colleagues.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will ask the Welsh Council to investigate and report on the housing and construction industry in Wales.

I am not aware of any report which could appropriately be submitted to the Welsh Council for its investigation. The Council does not, I understand, have any plans at present to carry out any study of this industry in Wales.

Neither am I aware of reports. I am asking for the Welsh Council to report. Because of the acute shortage of building labour, which has already been referred to, local authorities and Government Departments are having great difficulty in getting firms to tender for desperately needed housing schemes and other construction works. Celtic Sea exploration will soon increase these pressures and there is a great need to seek ways of overcoming these difficulties, whether by further training schemes, EEC participation or other methods.

I agree with my hon. Friend, as I said earlier in answer to another question, that there is a big problem. If he wishes to bring representatives of the councils which are under pressure to see me about the matter, I shall be happy to talk to them about it.

Is the Minister of State aware—perhaps he is not—that all matters of civil procurement of £1 million and above have to be advertised in the Journal of the EEC? What guidance has he given to those setting out tenders for contract? If he is not giving guidance to local authorities and other bodies will he tell the House and Wales why that is so? Lastly, does the hon. Gentleman agree that, figuratively speaking, the Welsh Office has been caught flat-footed in its ignorance in its approach to these matters?

The hon. Gentleman makes a lot of claims. All I can say to him is that up to now we have not issued any specific instructions or advice to local authorities. No doubt there will be such instruction in the foreseeable future.

Will my hon. Friend, in co-operation with the Department of Employment, discuss with the employers' and employees' representatives the feasibility of expanding the training of skilled personnel in the building industry? Does he recognise that that is the main requirement in the whole of Wales at present?

I accept what my hon. Friend says.

Is the Minister of State sure that he read the right answer'? Is he aware that it is only a fortnight since my hon. Friend the Member for Cardigan (Mr. Elystan Morgan) was advised by him that the Welsh Council was undertaking a study on housing and that it had been studying the position for months? Has he asked the Welsh Council to look into the reasons why this year we shall have the lowest figures for public housing in the Principality since 1946?

The right hon. Gentleman poses a number of questions. With regard to his last question, he knows very well that it is not only the public sector which is important but also the private sector, which is doing extraordinarily well. My answer to his hon. Friend the Member for Cardigan (Mr. Elystan Morgan) about the Welsh Council was correct.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he proposes to publish his views on the recommendation of the Ebbw Vale task force; and if he will make a statement.

I expect to receive the final report from the Ebbw Vale task force later this month. The Government's decisions will be announced as soon as possible thereafter.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that that is a most disquieting answer which portrays a complete lack of urgency on his part and on the part of the task force which was set up seven months ago? Does he not realise that decisions are required immediately? Further, is he aware that the situation in North Monmouthshire is deteriorating and is now becoming desperate? Does he agree that he should not be side-tracked by the problem of Llantrisant when he considers the recommendations of the task force?

I do not know why the hon. Gentleman says that my answer is disquieting. I think it has been generally accepted that the task force has been tackling the problem with a real sense of urgency. In view of the extent of the consultations, and of the need to study a wide range of infrastructural projects suggested by the local authorities, I do not think that the time which the task force has taken is unreasonable.

Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman tell us whether his answer means that a statement will be made to the House on his views about the findings of the task force before Parliament rises for the recess? Further, as those in Ebbw Vale have to conduct the most difficult operation of trying to co-ordinate the arrangements or proposals of the British Steel Corporation, the Welsh Office and the other bodies concerned, will he give us the earliest possible indication of what the task force suggests so that we shall have his support in altering the proposed dates, among other things, which have been put forward by the British Steel Corporation?

I appreciate all the matters referred to by the hon. Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. Foot), which are matters of concern in the Ebbw Vale area. He will know that the task force has been extremely anxious to finish its report with a sense of urgency. I cannot say that decisions will be taken on the final report before Parliament rises for the recess. I do not expect to receive the report until the end of this month. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the Government will be considering the recommendations of the task force with the greatest care and with a sense of urgency.

I thought that the right hon. and learned Gentleman said in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Abertillery (Mr. Jeffrey Thomas) that the report would be considered on 17th July.

indicated dissent.

That is not quite the same as the end of the month. I thought that the right hon. and learned Gentleman said 17th July. If I have that wrong I am sorry, but that was what I understood him to say. In that event, he should be able to make a statement to the House before Parliament rises. He must understand—and I think he does understand—that for three months afterwards there could be a serious and deteriorating situation if we were left in doubt about the position. I urge the right hon. and learned Gentleman to give us, if possible, an affirmative reply. I urge him to say that he will make a statement to the House on this matter, which is of paramount importance, before Parliament rises.

I do not think I gave a date. I thought I said "later this month". I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I am anxious to reach firm conclusions on recommendations of the task force. However, it would be wrong for me to give the hon. Gentleman any definite assurance that decisions will be taken before Parliament rises. I cannot give such an assurance today.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what steps he is taking to implement the Bolton recommendation to minimise form filling and returns to Government Departments in view of the concern felt by small businessmen.

After widespread consultation the Government have tabled a new clause for this year's Finance Bill which would exempt very many small firms from future statistical inquiries by allowing the Business Statistics Office to use data collected in the administration of value added tax. This is an important result of our continuous review of the form filling burdens on small businesses.

Is my hon. Friend aware that those of us who have been campaigning about the problems which face small businesses will welcome very much what he has said? Will he say how many firms will benefit from what he has just announced? Further, will he continue his efforts to protect small businesses from unnecessary returns and form filling to other Government Departments?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his first observation. I know the particular interest which he takes in these matters. I can give him the assurance that I shall continue with the work to which he referred. Many thousands of firms will benefit. If this information had been available to the BSO before the issue of the questionnaire for the 1971 census of distribution, about 100,000 small re- tailers would have been exempted from the census.

Is it not a fact that the so-called saving is no saving at all? Is not any saving from not having to complete the statistical returns more than offset by the overwhelming burden of having to complete value added tax returns?

I do not accept that for one moment. This is one particular advantage which the Business Statistics Office can adopt by virtue of the VAT arrangements without introducing any new statistical inquiries to small firms which would otherwise be necessary. Such inquiries would have put a much greater burden on small firms. Happily that will not be the case now.

How many firms would benefit and have less work to do if VAT were abolished altogether?

That is a question which the right hon. Gentleman should address to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The point I am making is that a large number of firms, including small firms, will be relieved of the burden of form filling, an aim which I should have thought the House supported, as a result of the proposals which I have announced today.

Will the hon. Gentleman give us some information regarding the setting up of small business advisory units—particularly in Scotland—in line with the Bolton recommendations?

I hope that the small business centres will be open by the late summer or autumn and that they will be in action certainly by the autumn. A number of the appointments have been made and those appointed are carrying out some of their work in advance of the offices being set up.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he is yet able to report on his discussions with the CBI and the TUC about regional employment premium.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what further discussions he has had with the CBI and the TUC about the regional employment premium.

Discussions with the CBI and TUC have been held by officials of the Departments concerned. The next step will be to consider the position reached in those discussions.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the worst time to phase out a major regional aid like REP is in the middle of an economic boom, when we are getting labour shortages in the South-East and the Midlands? Should we not reinforce regional aid by restoring REP and restoring its value in real terms as in 1967? Is this on the agenda?

It has been possible to express all views on this subject in the discussions, and all views will be taken into consideration. I would only remind the hon. Gentleman that we are doing what his right hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, South-East (Mr. Callaghan) advocated, that REP should be phased out after seven years.

Now that the European Commission appears in essence to have washed its hands of the scatter of British regional policies for at least the next 18 months, does this not enhance the case for thinking carefully before we add further to the capital intensive bias of our existing industrial incentives?

That is certainly a factor which will be taken into consideration by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, among the other points which have been put up for discussion.

Does the hon. Gentleman understand that the reason why my hon. Friends and others keep asking about the regional employment premium is that it is now recognised at all levels within industry, in academic circles and, above all, in the regions themselves, that the REP is an essential part of our regional policy? Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House that he will now reconsider his decision?

It is not surprising that those who are in receipt of £100 million worth of taxpayers' money should be concerned at its disappearance. The question is the method by which it is phased out.

The hon. Gentleman is aware that the CBI, the TUC and the regions want to continue REP. The only people with any doubts are the Government. Why did they start this silly exercise in the first place, and when will it be stopped?

As one hon. Member has said, there are also those who pay this money who have to be taken into consideration. In addition, there are the views which were held by the party opposite when they were in government.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that, although he has been told by about four people that the regions want a continuation of this premium, I can assure him that those parts of the North West which are intermediate areas do not want a continuation of the premium?

My hon. and learned Friend has indicated that there is more than one view on this subject.

Can the hon. Gentleman confirm the weekend reports that the European Commission will not subject Britain's regional policy to the transparency test and that, therefore, there is no European blockage to a continuation of REP?

I am not responsible for what appeared in the weekend Press, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman that there is nothing in the treaty which stops something like REP. Indeed, there is something like REP in Italy.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will make a statement on the siting of a European Patents Office.

As announced in the House on 29th June last year, the negotiating countries decided by a large majority to establish the seat of the office at Munich and a patent searching branch at The Hague. I do not expect any change in the views of the other countries when the decision comes up for confirmation at the diplomatic conference in September.—[Vol. 839, c. 406.]

As English is the most widely-spoken language and the British Patents Office has the best expertise in the whole world, when the matter comes up for confirmation will my right hon. and learned Friend bid very hard to have the office in Britain on grounds of efficiency?

I appreciate the importance of the factors mentioned by my hon. Friend. The fact is that this is a convention, which has not yet been completely negotiated, between 21 European countries which have had to take account of other matters including the existence of one institution at The Hague. The matter has to be considered in that forum. I would not wish to hold out any hopes that there is likely to be a change in the basic decision on the siting at Munich.

Surely most of the patents are registered in this country. There should be no doubt about this, in view of the linguistic and other points which have been made.

I appreciate the importance of the point made by the right hon. Gentleman. The linguistic factor is only one of the factors to be taken into account. The matter was fully considered before the decision was arrived at last year. This is a matter which is being taken in the context of negotiations by 21 countries extending far beyond the European Economic Community, the result of which will be to confer something of considerable value on British industry and inventors, namely, a patent available not only in the EEC but in other European countries. One must have regard to that advantage as well as to the fact mentioned by the right hon. Gentleman.

If we are to lose the European Patents Office to Munich, will the Trade Mark Office come to the United Kingdom and be sited in London?

My hon. Friend is right to remind the House that the Patents Office is not the only European institution likely to be set up. We expect to get a reasonable share of such institutions in this country. I note my hon. Friend's reference to the prospects of the European Trade Mark Office.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will make a statement on the export/import trade figures for May 1973.

Imports in May were at a high level, but included large increases in the basic materials and industrial supplies necessary for our continued expansion. It is now also clear that the volume of exports this year has expanded faster than the volume of imports, and that we have achieved major increases in sales to our most important trading partners: the Community, the United States of America and Japan.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that his statement that imports in May were at a high level could be classed as the understatement of the year? If these figures are so good and paint such a rosy picture for the future, can he explain why his right hon. Friend tells the Welsh Conservatives not to worry and stomps the country telling everyone that all is bright and rosy for the future? When can we expect a change in the pattern of exports, when the value of exports will exceed the value of imports and when the trade figures will again show a surplus?

The hon. Member appears to cast a gloomy view over the whole scene. I would remind him and the House, in answer to his last point, that the volume of exports in the first four months of this year has increased by 12 per cent. over the last half of last year, which is exactly twice as much as the increase in volume of imports during the same period. The Government remain committed to this pattern of expansion of exports and I cannot see why the hon. Gentleman should take such a gloomy view of our determination to continue that development.

Is it not extraordinary that the hon. Gentleman has not realised that one month's trade figures are of no significance when the pound is floating and it is impossible to have a balance of payments shortage as a result? Will my right hon. and learned Friend make sure, however, that the pound continues to float so that the hon. Gentleman can continue to be wrong?

My hon. Friend is entirely right to draw attention to the fact that one must look at the long run of figures. The underlying important factor which the country should take seriously is the extent to which our prospects for a continued expansion, not only in volume of exports but in the advantage in trade, depend on our being able to maintain a steady pattern of growth and a reasonable containment of inflation in this country. That is the policy to which the Government are committed. We are on course for an expansion in prosperity, which hon. Members on both sides of the House so much want.

If we are looking at the long run of figures, is not the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the visible trade deficit rose from £233 million to £363 million between the last quarter of 1972 and the first three months of this year? Invisibles are running at an annual deficit of £800 million. These figures, allied to the present raw material shortage, look like registering the biggest visible trade deficit since the war. Does not this show that this "phoney" boom is based on Britain living in debt? It is a boom on tick. What does the right hon. and learned Gentleman visualise the Government doing to try to bring the visibles back into the black?

I invite the House to note that, in assessing our balance of payments, one must take into account also the extent to which our invisible earnings are running, namely, at nearly £60 million a month. I invite the right hon. Member for Barnsley (Mr. Mason) to answer this question. [HON. MEMBERS: "The Minister should answer."] The country is entitled to know the Opposition's attitude on these things. Do they wish us to contain and restrain the prospect of expansion and growth? Do they wish us to cut back and restrain the growth now taking place? This is the question they must answer. The Government are committed, as my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, to a policy of steady and sustained growth, with a view to raising living standards and maintaining full employment. If the Opposition wish us to change from that and stop the boom, let them tell the country.

In the same period as the Minister has taken, invisibles fell back from £197 million surplus to £174 million. Thus, the trend is the same in invisibles as has already happened in visibles. So when do we expect the cut-back?

The right hon. Gentleman still does not come back to the central point. Our invisible earnings are continuing high and substantial. Our balance of visible trade is being produced by an expanding volume in that trade. The right hon. Gentleman is possibly the last hon. Member entitled to ask, as he did a moment ago, when we shall get the nation out of debt. We have got it out of debt—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—out of the debt into which his Government put it. We are determined to maintain a pattern of steady and sustained growth.