asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if, in the interests of pollution control, he will call a conference of the responsible authorities to co-ordinate efforts to clear the Thames of driftwood.

Keeping the Thames free of driftwood is a matter for the responsible authorities. I have no evidence to suggest that there is any lack of co-ordination but I should be glad to draw the attention of the responsible authorities to any specific evidence the hon. Member may have.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that reply. I shall give him some evidence which I hope he will draw to the attention of the responsible authority, because driftwood in the Thames is getting worse and worse. It is a danger to all forms of boating, whether it be rowing, sailing, or any other boating activity, and it is high time that a co-ordinated effort was made to deal with the problem. The problem is certainly not being satisfactorily dealt with at the moment. I should be grateful if the hon. Gentleman would go further than he did in his answer and take an active initiative in bringing together the appropriate bodies to find a solution to the problem and help with the necessary money to deal with the situation.

I cannot give any undertaking on the last point because the responsibility clearly is with the statutory authorities. About 6,000 tons of driftwood is collected and cleared each year from the Thames, and it would be a great deal less if the public and those who go out in boats on the Thames were to give up the nasty habit of chucking driftwood and debris into the river.

Can my hon. Friend say whether any of the driftwood represents planks of the London Labour Party's election programmes of 1964 and 1967 which first advocated the building of the London motor box?

I shall need notice of that question.

Will the Under-Secretary of State withdraw his aspersion on those who use boats on the river, implying that they are responsible for throwing in driftwood? Will he make inquiries of the Port of London Authority, which is supposed to be responsible for these matters, but in fact is not very responsible, to see that the authority provides a sufficient number of rubbish barges for cargo vessels to tip waste from their holds over the side, instead of its being dumped in the river clandestinely at night?

I cannot accept any of the criticisms made by the hon. Member for Acton (Mr. Spearing) of the PLA, which collects and disperses 6,000 tons——

That is what the PLA says.

—of driftwood and debris from the river each year.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on his Department's negotiation to agree on a common European system of codes of practice for major methods of civil engineering construction and materials, including concrete.

My officials are taking part in studies of the technical and legal obstacles to trade in the field of building and civil engineering within a group of experts convened by the Commission of the European Communities. The possibility referred to by the hon. Member is one of a number being explored by this group. It is too early to say what conclusions might emerge from these discussions.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman say what steps he is taking to ensure the co-operation of the Comité Européen du Béton, which is supported by the Department for the Environment, and in which a large num- ber of eminent engineers and research workers are engaged? What is he doing to ensure that the new British code, which is the basis of the international code of the CEB, is adopted as a basis for a new code of practice?

I appreciate the importance of the organisation to which the hon. Lady refers and I well understand her interest in it. These discussions are at an early stage. What other organisations might be involved is largely a matter for the various international organisations themselves to decide, but we have not yet even reached the stage of negotiations, much less of conclusions.

Does the Secretary of State agree that it would be a good thing if European countries could agree on a code of practice such as that used in this country, which is universally recognised as the best in the world? Does he agree that with material such as concrete the problem involves not only the composition of the mix but supervision of the process—which is the main reason for the frequency of failure of concrete edifices on the Continent compared with what happens in this country?

It would be helpful if we were to develop an international code of practice for concrete structures and a great many other building materials. I believe we have a great deal to contribute because our standards are among the highest in the world.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what progress has been made in offering the sale of new town flats and maisonettes to sitting tenants.

Development corporations and the commission were asked in June to review their stocks of flats and maisonettes with a view to making available as many of them as possible for sale to sitting tenants at a discount.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on that reply, and wish to inform him that a large number of flat-dwellers will be delighted to hear what he has said. What steps is he taking to ensure that flat-dwellers, as opposed to the development corporations, know about this?

I think and hope that this has been widely publicised, but if there are examples where it is not widely known I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mr. Allason) will seek to publicise this matter more widely in his own constituency. I shall be delighted to consider what other publicity measures might be necessary.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in the People's Republic of China and the Republic of Romania it is possible for people to buy their own homes? Is not it time that the British people had this basic right?

It always astonishes me that about the only people in the world who do not want to sell houses to their tenants are Labour-controlled local authorities.

And the brewers.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on his discussions in the last three weeks with representatives of the lawn tennis authorities and the professional players.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on his meeting on 20th June with the Association of Tennis Professionals; and what advice he offered the association.

I met representatives of the Association of Tennis Professionals and the International Lawn Tennis Federation and hoped that by discussing their differences with an impartial third party they might have been able to resolve them. I regret that the gap between them was too wide to be bridged in the time available. I think that everyone will agree that Wimbledon nevertheless survived.

As a matter of curiosity, what was the point of all those telephone calls by the Minister to Yugoslavia, and did his action have the approval of Mr. Herman David, or the All England Club, or the Sports Council?

I seek no approval from any of these bodies. I sought only to help those members of the British public who had looked forward to a successful Wimbledon. I regret very much that this incident should have happened. But taking everything into account, I hope that Wimbledon survives and will go on surviving regardless of these petty squabbles.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that, if anything, Wimbledon this year was better, cleaner and more fairly played than in the past, and does not my hon. Friend deprecate the strong-arm action of one J. Kramer?

I can only say that I personally enjoyed Wimbledon. I hope that other hon. Members did. For the most part, I think that the less the Government have to do in the day-to-day management of sport the better. But wherever I am asked to help I am always willing to do so.

We are happy that the Minister tried to resolve the matter, but does he not agree that it was a little odd for a British Minister responsible for sport to make telephone calls to Yugoslavia in an attempt to arrange a deal between a Yugoslav player and the Yugoslav Tennis Association? What ministerial responsibility was involved? Can the hon. Gentleman confirm, as I hope he can, that he made it clear to the representatives of the players whom he met that, although we support their having greater representation on any appropriate committee, in fact in any sport the governing body must govern and that tournaments like Wimbledon, while providing proper rewards to players, also have financial responsibility to provide money for the development of the game—money for development that has benefited many of these players in the past?

I agree with the second part of the hon. Gentleman's question. As for the first part, I repeat that I am always anxious to help.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what reply he has made to the proposals of the Railways Board for the future development of British Rail.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on his policy towards the future of the British Rail network, with particular reference to Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he intends to publish a White Paper on his policy towards railways and if he will make a statement.

I have at present nothing to add to what I said in the debate on 4th July.

Is the Minister aware that many railwaymen in my constituency were disappointed by the rather casual attitude taken by the right hon. Gentleman in our debate on the railways last week? As the right hon. Gentleman is taking his time, and as this Government claim to think the unthinkable, and frequently have to, will he undertake to make his decision in the light of a comprehensive review by his Department of the relations between available fuel supplies, transport systems and the environment, since this will probably lead him to the conclusion that it would be foolish to spend as little money on the railways as the Railways Board recommends? We should be spending far more.

If the hon. Gentleman's constituents believe that there was anything casual in my attitude to the railways it is only because they have been rash enough to listen to him. As for the remainder of his supplementary question, all I say is that all relevant factors will be borne in mind.

While congratulating my right hon. Friend on his impeccable debating behaviour the other day, may I ask him to take note of an omission from the debate due to the brevity of speeches all round—with one notable exception—and that was the realisation of the huge real estate value of the land that is available on British Railways and which now ought to be liquidated in order to reinforce the finances of the railways? Will my right hon. Friend remind British Railways of this before rendering their final report to this House?

I assure my hon. Friend that no one is losing sight of the importance of the assets represented by British Railways land.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that in last week's debate he made no mention of the Scottish railway system? Will he undertake to examine the memorandum provided by the Scottish Railway Development Association, which recommends a Scottish electrified railway system that would cost less than one-twentieth of the estimated cost of the Maplin project? Will the right bon. Gentleman further undertake to use the powers that he and the Government have under the Local Employment Act and the Transport Act 1968 to help finance the railway system as part of the regional policies of the Government? Those powers have not been used in Scotland to the extent that they have in England.

I did not omit to mention the Scottish railways the other day. I did not mention any specific part of the network. I am always ready to consider any representations or advice about the railways that I receive from Scotland.

Is one of the relevant factors that the right hon. Gentleman says he will consider before publishing his response to British Railways—especially before he considers any further axing of railways in Scotland—the views of the European Commission, which indicate that it supports the belief that railways should be subsidised, in the interests of balanced regional development?

The hon. Gentleman forces me to repeat the rather dull answer that I gave just now. All relevant factors will be borne in mind.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is not really a subsidy that the railways need? They need the taxpayer to pay for almost the whole of our railroad system. Unless this happens our roads will become increasingly clogged and there will be no future for transport in this country.

My hon. Friend is going a little far in making a nightmare of what is admittedly a difficult situation.

I do not wish to go over last week's debate again, but the Minister knows that there is great anxiety. Will he now give some indication when the Government intend to announce their policy for British Railways? Meanwhile, will the right hon. Gentleman withdraw any suggestion or directive that has been been made to British Railways that in developing their property assets they must share the proceeds with private developers? Would not it be much better for the nation and the railways if they had the benefit of any development they can make?

I have given no directive to anyone on this or any other subject. It is a bad habit, which I have left to right hon. and hon. Members of the Opposition. As for the date of publication of the document to which I referred in the debate the other day, I do not think that it will be possible to produce it before the autumn. I am now engaged in a series of consultations with the railway unions and I should not like to hasten that process.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the current annual percentage increase in the average price of new houses, on the latest published figures.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment by what percentage new house prices have risen since June 1970.

The average price of a new house mortgaged with building societies in Great Britain increased by 87 per cent. between the second quarter of 1970 and the first quarter of 1973.

Is it not a sad comment on the poor state of the housing market that the most recent figures reported in the papers are regarded almost as welcome?

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman referred to the recent Nation- wide figures, which show that the rate of increase in house prices is slowing down markedly. The Nationwide survey to which the hon. Gentleman referred shows that new house prices rose by 8 per cent. during the first six months of 1973, compared with 25 per cent. in the second half of 1972.

Would my hon. Friend care to investigate the massive escalation in the price of construction timber coming from Scandinavia and the Canadian seaboard as this is adding considerably to the cost of housing? Further, will he again monitor the ever increasing price of land?

My hon. Friend is right in referring to one of the world factors that have a substantial effect on prices here.

Why does not the Minister admit that he has given a most appalling answer? Is he proud of the fact that, in percentage terms, he has even beaten the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food? To do so by 250 per cent. is an act of genius. Is it not clear from the way things are going that before long no one earning less than £100 a week will be able to buy a three-bedroom detached house? How are the Prime Minister and the motley crew on the Government Front Bench going to face young couples at the next General Election?

The hon. Gentleman will remember the depressed state of the housing market in the Midlands in 1969 and 1970, when few people had sufficient confidence to enter into housing transactions. It is wrong to suggest that first-time purchasers and young couples are not holding their own. In the first quarter of 1973 building societies issued 37,000 new mortgages to people with incomes up to the average manual worker's wage. By way of comparison, in the first quarter of 1970 only 30,000 mortgages were issued to such people. Furthermore, the number of building society mortgages to those buying homes for the first time rose from 61,000 in 1970 to 79,000 over the same period. The comparable figure for borrowers under 25—which is also important—rose from 24,000 to 31,000.

Is it not about time Ministers in this Department recognised that the constant quoting of percentage figures, and a whole series of them, for the last three years does nothing to alleviate the fact that housing construction today is lower than in 1963, while prices have continued to rise? Is not the Government's housing policy an absolute disaster for the country?

The hon. Gentleman must not try to avoid facts that show that more and more people are able to enter into house purchase transactions and become owners, and have the confidence to do so. The hon. Gentleman must remember the terrible fall in the house purchase market in 1969 and 1970. We have brought the figure up from 165,000 in 1969 to about 240,000 this year.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement about the future classification and conseqent annual cost of the South Yorkshire Navigation Canal.

The future of this waterway will depend on whether the improvement proposed by the British Waterways Board can be justified. I am awaiting from the board more concrete evidence that the waterway would, if improved, attract the necessary additional traffic.

When the British Waterways Board writes to the Minister—and it will write to the Minister—will he, with the approval of the chairman, publish the board's letter in the same way as he published his letter to Sir Frank Price? Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that if he does not accede to the board's request for the upgrading of this waterway it will cost at least £750,000 to put it into condition? This scheme is widely recognised as the acid test of the Government's intentions and attitude towards the further development of commercial inland waterways, and the Government's persistent refusal to approve it has plunged into deep despair those who care for the waterways and their future.

The acid test of any public investment of this kind must be a reasonable judgment whether it will bring some return. The matter is being examined in great detail. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the losses that have been sustained by that waterway are high and the alternative forms of transport—notably the railway, which runs virtually along the same line—are not used. It must, therefore, be prudent to make a realistic judgment whether public investment in this canal could be justified.

Does not the Minister realise that he is wrong in thinking that our transport system does not need to be further improved? Does he realise that our roads are congested, and that this waterway could be a tremendous help for the future by taking traffic off the roads? Further, has the hon. Gentleman considered the amenities of the waterway? Is it to be said that for the want of £2¼ million we are to destroy amenities that we could enjoy for a lifetime?

The hon. Gentleman and I are at one in wishing to relieve pressure upon the roads, but I remind him that the first-class railway track that runs along the same line as this canal is, regrettably, not used sufficiently for heavy freight. Those who wish to relieve pressure on the roads have the option of moving to the railways. If they are not prepared to exercise that option, it must be a good question whether public investment in an additional waterway would be proper.

What about the amenities?

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will introduce legislation to provide that the financial interests of local authority members and officers are announced at each annual meeting of the council and recorded in the minutes of such meetings.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave on 29th June to a Question on this subject from the hon. Member for Newark (Mr. Bishop).

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that this is a matter of great urgency? Is he not aware that the public are concerned about graft in local government? Does he not agree that it is urgently necessary for him to take some action, if not by the method that I suggest then by setting up a public register that is open to the public, so that the great majority of people in local government, who are absolutely straight, are not maligned and do not come under suspicion because of the actions of a few? Will the right hon. Gentleman take this matter seriously and take urgent action to set up such a register?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that the matter is taken seriously. I cannot do better than repeat the words of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, who recently said:

"I am still studying the part relating to local government. For obvious reasons, it may not be possible to make a statement on this matter for a little while. We have just discussed the question of public bodies."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 3rd May 1973; Vol. 855, c. 1463]

Has my right hon. Friend considered the practice that is prevalent in many local authorities under which, for private reward, planning officers or their assistants draw up plans on which they are afterwards asked to pass judgment? Is not that improper? Will my right hon. Friend, as his predecessors have not always done, accept that his Department has some responsibility for laying down standards for what is decent and indecent, and will he issue those standards to local authorities so that they know what is proper practice?

I do not think that it is the duty of my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State to lay down rules for the employment of the staff of local authorities, but the consideration of this subject will cover the interests of officers as well as members.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recollect that the answer from the Prime Minister was given to me a short time ago? Is not the Department itself seized of the urgency of this situation, and would it not be better to deal with the matter before the new local authority set-up comes into operation? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a neighbouring authority to mine has just set up a land committee, the chairman of which is Mr. Hyett, a builder, and that the vice-chairman is his foreman? The situation lends itself to suspicion on the part of the general public. Is not there a great degree of urgency about the matter?

I should not like to comment on any particular case of which I do not have the whole facts. These matters are all under consideration, and I appreciate the urgency of them.

Does my right hon. Friend not agree that, in view of the talk about Members of Parliament declaring their interests, there is added urgency in the suggestion of the setting up of a public register for people serving on local authorities? Surely the general public must realise that if Members of Parliament have to declare their interests and local authority members do not there is discrimination against Members of Parliament?

Indeed, but members of local authorities can and do declare their interests, subject to a general notice in writing. It is true that the register is not open to the public—we discussed this matter on the Local Government Bill—but they can register their interests there. Under the law as it stands, local authority members are required to disclose any pecuniary interest they may have in a matter currently under consideration and must not take part in the proceedings unless permitted to do so by the Secretary of State.

Whatever the Prime Minister may have said, did not the Government have the opportunity to put this matter right in the Local Government Bill, and did they not refuse to do so? Is not one of the principal causes of complaint the fact that a councillor can declare an interest in a register kept with the town clerk, which is not available to the Press? Will the Government consult local authorities urgently, with a view to producing a White Paper urgently and legislation before the new authorities come into being next April?

I have always thought that this is a subject for all-party discussion and not for the Government to decide on their own. We are certainly considering the form of discussion, and what should be brought before such a discussion.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many applications for development area grants for the removal of slag banks for use by the construction industry have been received by the Department; and how many of these applications have been approved and to which processes have the grants related.

Much slag is disposed of commercially and no question of grant arises. In other cases, however, applications are made for derelict land reclamation grants for the treatment of slag banks.

Does the Minister accept that the imminent serious shortage of aggregates and hardfill in the South-East offers a unique opportunity to remove many of the slag banks that disfigure development areas? What steps are the Government prepared to take to enable the Ormsgill slag bank to be shipped through Barrow Docks to areas where it could be used by the construction industry? Will the Government advise the British Transport Docks Board to delay any decision on the termination of commercial activity in Barrow Docks until the Government have taken appropriate decisions in this matter?

In regard to the Ormsgill slag bank in Barrow-in-Furness, owned by the Millom Ironworks, the regional office in July 1970 gave Barrow County Borough Council outline approval for the reclamation of the 100 acres concerned but this has yet to be followed up. no doubt because of the high cost, which may exceed £1 million. But slag from iron and steel production is now almost all processed for industrial use instead of accumulating in heaps. as in the past. There is also our experimental dual tendering scheme for road building.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he is satis- fied with the operation of the Rivers (prevention of Pollution) Act 1961, in view of the continued oil pollution of the River Don in Sheffield and south Yorkshite.

No, Sir, and my right hon. and learned Friend has already told the House that he hopes to introduce legislation during the lifetime of this Parliament greatly to strengthen the existing system of controls.

That reply will be received with considerable gratification in Sheffield, where, given the quality of the local Press, it has long been felt that the most pertinent weapon in the face of the polluters was publicity. It was thought that there was something wrong with an Act that prevented officials from giving the names of culprits and the state and content of effluent.

The hon. Member will be glad to know that among the other proposals that my right hon. and learned Friend has in mind is the ending of unnecessary confidentiality about discharges to the natural environment.

On the principle that the polluter should pay for the pollution that he causes in the rivers—not only the Don but the Trent, which is very bad at the moment—will my hon. Friend consider with his right hon. and learned Friend increasing the cost to the polluter for the damage that he is doing to these great rivers?

Yes, Sir, but I should like to put this into perspective by pointing out that every week since 1970 about four miles of polluted river have been cleared up.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what effect the recent reduction in public expenditure will have on the timetable for the construction of bypasses of villages in West Sussex.

The reductions in public expenditure in 197475 will not affect the schemes I think my hon. Friend has in mind.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that reassurance. Does he realise that for the many residents in my constituency who live in villages and towns life is absolutely intolerable, because they have to suffer from the steady through-flow of traffic, and particularly heavy lorries? Will he make certain that the Government speed up the availability of finance, particularly for those areas committed to bypasses under the principal road preparation list?

Yes, but not all these principal road schemes are yet in the firm road programme, so it is too early to give any firm financial forecast.

May I remind my hon. Friend of the needs of some of the villages in the entry to Dover, which have just suffered three ghastly accidents as a result of careering juggernaut lorries?

Indeed. My hon. Friend will be pleased to see that none of the A2 schemes has been held up by the cutbacks. We are expecting the results of public inquiries on two or three of these important schemes in the very near future.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will change the present heavy goods vehicle driver regulations arising from the Road Safety Act 1967, to enable the holder of a public service vehicle driving licence to drive heavy goods vehicles without a further driving test and to retain the regulation whereby a driver of a heavy goods vehicle has to pass a further test to obtain a licence to drive public service vehicles.

No, Sir.

Does my right hon. Friend mind telling me just how he comes to the conclusion that a man who is considered able and responsible enough to have a licence to drive a double-decker bus with 50 passengers is not considered capable and responsible enough to drive an equivalent-sized vehicle carrying anything from machine tools to scrap iron?

There are some notable and conspicuous differences between the two types of vehicle, as well as their operations.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that there is a total difference between driving a busload of tourists around the Isle of Wight and driving a 32-ton gross antic. up the M1? Will he resist this suggestion, which does not have the blessing of the Transport and General Workers Union? [Laughter.] They are only the drivers. Will he also take powers against such private employment agencies as Manpower, which was encouraging the shift to which the hon. Member for the Isle of Wight (Mr. Woodnutt) referred and in so doing was encouraging all the pirates and cowboys that the heavy goods vehicle licence was supposed to prevent?

My confidence in the answer that I gave to my hon. Friend is slightly diminished by the fact that the hon. Member appears to agree with me. The other point does not arise on this Question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he has completed his discussions with the National Ports Council regarding the development of port facilities in South and East England.

I regularly discuss such matters with the council.

Will the right hon. Gentleman be a little more forthcoming about what is happening over the Maplin seaport development? Does not the Port of London Authority appear to be behaving as though the matter of the seaport and oil terminal is a fait accompli, which will go ahead regardless of the airport development? Will he give the Government's view on the question whether or not this is a possible development?

I am only too anxious to help the hon. Gentleman. I was not quite sure to what port facilities he was referring. I am aware now: I am grateful to him There is no question of any fait accompli. The proposals of the Port of London Authority certainly have to come to the Government, and would need approval under Section 9 of the Harbours Act.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the particular needs and potential of the West Country ports—not only Bristol, but Falmouth? Does he agree that if the Channel Tunnel goes ahead it is likely to prove an extremely attractive proposition for people using ports like Bristol and Falmouth, in that Bristol would become the nearest port to North America with overland transportation and direct access to Europe? Would he bear these points in mind and ask the National Ports Council to bear in mind the importance to the West Country ports of the Channel Tunnel decision?

Yes, Sir, of course I shall bear these in mind, but not even the most ardent supporter of Bristol would regard it as being particularly close to the South-East.

Does the Minister recall the strong recommendations that he made in saying that he would be reforming the National Ports Council, and talking of the importance of its role? Has not the whole Maplin project been embarked upon by the Government without the advice of the National Ports Council on the ports aspect of it? Are the Government afraid that the council may show the same enthusiasm about the project as the Civil Aviation Authority appears to be showing?

No, Sir, absolutely not. Before the Government make any decision on the seaport, certainly the advice of the National Ports Council will be sought and very carefully considered.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will give a general direction to British Rail to install telecommunications in long-distance trains; and if he will make a statement.

No, Sir.

As every signal box between Carlisle and Motherwell, near Glasgow, is now being closed, should there not be some means of telecommunication to cover emergencies on that long stretch of track, where we have had our share of serious train accidents? Will the Minister give further thought to the fact that trains will be travelling from Glasgow to London at an average speed, we understand, of 100 miles an hour and that, therefore, in the interests of the tourist trade, there should be some means of communicating the names of the places through which trains are passing? If the Minister has not assessed the situation, will he at least conduct an experiment on the line from Glasgow to London to assess the value of train telecommunications?

These are matters for the British Railways Board. Regarding tourism, the BRB does not think that the broadcasting of tourist information would be popular for passengers generally. I agree with the board. Tranquillity in our long-distance trains is a very rare thing that we should hold on to.

Does not my hon. Friend accept that many passengers might like to use telephones on long-distance trains? Is the difficulty of getting two nationalised monopolies to be venturesome too big a problem?

On the first point, yes, Sir. In view of the interest in this matter, the BRB and the Post Office have set up a joint working party to look at this situation.

Will the Minister bear in mind that some of us want to be somewhere where we cannot be telephoned? Will he do something to diminish the ubiquity of telephones?

I have considerable sympathy with that point of view. There are still the canals.

Will my hon. Friend encourage British Rail and the Post Office to be at least enterprising to the extent that they resolve the futile disagreement which has prevented the Post Office from installing telephones on the platforms of practically every railway station in this country?

That is another question. But I shall certainly look into the specific details if my hon. Friend will let me have them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what steps he is taking to encourage local authorities to provide specialist housing for disabled people.

The recent White Paper "Widening the Choice: The Next Steps in Housing" made it clear that the Government look to local authorities and voluntary bodies to pay particular attention to the special housing needs of disabled people; and that we shall support them in making better provision.

Will my hon. Friend go a little further than that and give active encouragement? Does he not agree that quite small differences in the design of flats in particular, especially in having rather larger lifts and avoiding steps, can make all the difference in the world to whether a flat is usable by a disabled person or by someone who becomes disabled when living there? Will my hon. Friend take an active lead with local authorities in this matter?

I have a great deal of sympathy with what my hon. Friend says. A study is taking place at present between the Department of the Environment and the Department of Health and Social Security. When that has been completed, naturally we shall want to give detailed guidance to local authorities as to how they can best help in meeting this demand.

Following the national study, will the. hon. Gentleman look at the possibility of local authority activity, in view of the information that is now available, through the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, and will he adopt a legislative approach whereby all planning permissions have a quota for the disabled in the same way as employment has a quota for disabled persons?

This raises very wide issues. I should like to consider them with my hon. Friends who are chiefly responsible for planning matters. The hon. Gentleman was right to refer to the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act. From that we have learned of a great number of local authorities which are preparing schemes.

If politically disabled Members can seemingly get a specialist house at a stroke, why cannot the truly disabled get one?

The whole House enjoys the hon. Gentleman's supplementary questions.

Will my hon. Friend also bear in mind the need to chamfer the pavements and the steps of the flats concerned?

Certainly. That is bound to be one of the points to which the study will pay attention.

May I take the Minister back to the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act? Under Section 3 of that Act a duty was laid upon local authorities. The Minister has reserve powers under the 1957 Act to require that duty to be undertaken. The duty is to take account of the needs of the disabled in the submission of any housing proposals to the Minister. Will the Minister please use his powers under the 1957 Act to require local authorities to act more effectively under Section 3 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act?

The hon. Gentleman is right when he says that there are powers under Section 3 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act. As a result, 274 local authorities have notified the Department of proposals for the construction of dwellings for disabled people. I agree that that is not enough, but 274 is certainly a start. I am reluctant—as I am on other issues on which the hon. Gentleman is not usually pressing me—to take compulsory powers over local authorities. But I shall certainly consider what the hon. Gentleman has suggested.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment, in view of the discomfort suffered by residents in Greets Green, West Bromwich, caused by odours from factories manufacturing noxious or offensive gases and particularly escapes from a chemical plant manufacturing compounds used in the gas industry, whether he is satisfied as a result of reports from the Alkali Inspectorate with the existing control procedures in the factories concerned, and if not, what plans he has for improvements.

The complete elimination of escaping odours from this process is regrettably beyond the limits of present-day technological knowledge or practice. I am satisfied that the best practicable means to supress the emissions have been adopted and that advances are continually being sought and will be implemented where practicable.

I thank the Minister for his reply. Is he aware that, in the case of the factory which manufactures the smell for North Sea gas, the escape of only a very small quantity pollutes the whole area? It clings to people's clothing and their household furnishings. Will the Minister arrange a site meeting with his inspectorate, with representatives of the local authority and local residents' associations and with the industrialists with a view to bringing about greater arrestment procedures in this particular factory and a better mutual understanding of the problem?

The hon. Lady has rightly put her finger on the problem, in that one of the firms in this area is actually manufacturing smell. Therefore, there is bound to be a certain amount of odour in the area. I appreciate the problem that the hon. Lady has mentioned. If she were to arrange a site meeting I should be very happy to ask the district alkali inspector to attend. I assure the hon. Lady that the inspector in Sutton Cold-field is less than 15 minutes away by one of the motorways that my right hon. Friend is providing.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. What I should really like is for one of the junior Ministers to attend such a meeting.

Order. The content of an answer is not a matter of order.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what action he is taking to improve the supply of building materials in North Worcestershire.

Some building materials are overall in short supply and I am keeping in close touch with the manufacturers and their associations to ensure that everything possible is done to meet current difficulties. I have no evidence of any particular problems in North Worcestershire.

Is the Minister aware that the building trades employers in North Worcestershire have expressed concern about the shortages, especially of bricks and steel, and about the rationing system which British Gypsum has imposed on the supply of plasterboard? Will he talk to British Gypsum?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that there has been a great upsurge of demand in the construction industry, and output in the first quarter of 1973 is about 5 per cent. higher than the 1972 average. There are areas of difficulty, some of which the hon. Gentleman has mentioned, but in all those cases, with the exception of steel and timber, where difficulties arise because of high world demand manufacturers are arranging for an increase in productive capacity, and the benefit of that will be seen in the autumn.

What research is being carried out in the Department into substitutes for materials which are in short supply and materials which are expensive and add considerably to the cost of houses?

My Department is in constant touch with the industry on this matter, which is of increasing importance against the background of difficult supply.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many complaints he has received concerning delays in executing requests for driving licences by the new motor vehicles licensing office at Morriston.

A distressingly large number.

It is obvious from that answer that the right hon. Gentleman is aware that there have been complaints and delays of as much as four months from this centre. Is he aware that these delays are causing considerable inconvenience to magistrates' courts, the police and defendants in cases at those courts? What does he intend to do to ensure that the delays are diminished as much as possible?

I am very conscious of the inconvenience caused to many members of the public and I deeply regret it. By way of explanation, I merely say that the start of the operation at Swansea, which was always bound to be difficult, anyway, was unfortunately accompanied by an industrial dispute, and the work was seriously interrupted. I am very appreciate of the efforts that have since been made by the staff there to catch up and put things right.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if, in response to correspondence he has had with the Churches Main Committee and the hon. Member for Middlesbrough, West, he will end the hardship suffered by two Teesside churches blighted by the A66 road development and make possible their reinstatement without further delay.

It will not be established for some time whether the site of either church will be wanted for the development. Acquisition at the present stage would therefore be premature, but I see no reason why contingency arrangements to reserve sites for new churches should not be made with the local authority.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that helpful reply.

I do not think that it is for me to give the churches authority. The Teesside County Borough Council has already reserved a site for the Thornaby Methodist Church. I hope that the other church will enter into negotiations with the local authority for the reservation of a site.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what arrangements he now proposes to make to avoid snarl-up on motorways when road works on such motorways are undertaken.

Maintenance work is undertaken so far as possible in such a way as to cause minimum interference with traffic, and after consultation with the police.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that those of us who took an hour to go three miles on the M6 north of Lancaster during the Spring Recess think that if the police had placed notices at the intersections beforehand many motorists would have been able to get to their destinations much more quickly?

I am aware that it is not always possible to get this right. There are difficulties. A few months ago we issued further guidance because some very bad problems occurred on the M6 last year. On the whole we are getting this better, but before taking any action we must balance the safety factor.

Does not the Under-Secretary deplore the use of the expression, "snarl-up"? I assure him that it will not be found in the Oxford Dictionary.

People who get involved in such delays get pretty snarly.

May I call my hon. Friend's attention to the dangerous situation that exists at the junction of the M62 and the M6, just north of Chorley and Leyland, and inform him, if he is not familiar with the junction, that five lanes of traffic suddenly have to go into three lanes and there is no roundabout to control the speed?

If my hon. Friend cares to write to me or to table a specific Question on the point, I shall do my best to answer her.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if, in the light of evidence submitted by the hon. Member for Salford, East, he will introduce legislation stopping the decontrol of all rented dwellings which lack a bath, hot water and inside lavatory and limit rent increases for all other dwellings in the private sector to 3 per cent. a year.

No, Sir.

First, does the hon. Gentleman admit that so-called fair rents for private tenants have, on average, trebled the previous controlled rent? Secondly, did not my evidence include the case of an elderly couple living in a house without even an inside water supply—the water had to be supplied by a hand pump outside—who had their rent increased 3⅓ times? Will he consider the Labour Party's proposals mentioned in the document?

In the case the hon. Gentleman sent me, which of course I have studied, he overlooks the effect of the rent allowance. In the case of a retired couple living on the old-age pension and at present paying £1·49 per week in a controlled rent, if the new rent rises to £5·08 the effect after receipt of the new rent allowance would be that the couple's rent would actually reduce from £1·49 to 19p per week.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware how important it could be to limit rent increases in all sectors of housing? Will he study the very first report that has been received from a rent scrutiny board, which has examined rents in my constituency and has instructed the local council to increase rents of council houses by as much as 250 per cent.? Is not this a matter about which the Government could take positive action in an effort to help if they wish to persuade wage earners not to seek high wage increases? If the Government were to impose a freeze on council rents for the next three years it might help their policy.

The Question tabled by the hon. Member for Salford, East (Mr. Frank Allaun) relates entirely to rents in the private sector. I am aware of the point that the hon. Member has just raised with me, because he sought to raise it in another way. That is a matter not for me but, by law, for the rent scrutiny board. I understand that in the case the hon. Gentleman has in mind the board has made a report to the council disagreeing with its provisional assessment. The council has some time in which to make representations.

Does the hon. Gentleman acknowledge that over the last few years one of the great disappointments in housing has been the failure of landlords to take advantage of generous improvement grants to install bathrooms, inside lavatories, and so on? Would it not be a marvellous encouragement to landlords if they were not able to take advantage of decontrol until they had installed the basic amenities with the help of the generous financial assistance that is available?

I am convinced that the generous financial assistance which is available is one of the best spurs to the improvement of property. Properties that are in a had state will have very low rent assessments.