asked the Secretary of State for Wales what further consultations he has had with the British Steel Corporation regarding proposed redundancies in the steel industry in Wales.

I maintain my close and regular contact with the British Steel Corporation on all aspects of the steel industry in Wales.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman promise to make a last-ditch stand in the Cabinet, in an effort to save the 6,000 jobs which are due for the axe at Shotton? Does he not feel ashamed of his Government's willingness to stop so many jobs and prospects at a time of international and national steel shortage? Also, does he not consider it crazy and irresponsible to plan to axe 9,000 job opportunities in the Shotton area at a time when the local council has indicated that its estimate of 20,000 jobs by 1981 is a conservative one?

First, I certainly cannot accept the figures that were mentioned by the hon. Gentleman. As he knows, the Government have accepted the strategy of the British Steel Corporation and many of the matters to which he referred are now matters for the corporation. He also knows that the Government have accepted their responsibility for dealing with the social consequences of that strategy. The task force has reported in respect of the area of Shotton and the Government will be making their announcements quickly. As I have told the hon. Gentleman, the task force has taken full account of the additional job losses that are likely to arise in other related industries and they have framed their recommendations accordingly.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware of the importance of a very early announcement by the British Steel Corporation of a specific sum to be invested in the finishing side at Shotton? Without some specific assurance, the drift of people away from Shotton will assume very alarming proportions.

Yes, I agree with my hon. Friend. I think it is generally known that the British Steel Corporation is considering at this moment a major investment in the finishing end at Shotton.

Is it not becoming apparent to the Secretary of State that in order to obtain a senior managerial position with the British Steel Corporation to carry out the vast redundancy programme in Wales one has had to spend a long period of time in Sheffield? Does this mean that there is a scarcity of managerial talent in Wales? If that is the case, what is the right hon. and learned Gentleman doing about it?

Appointments to and within the British Steel Corporation are matters for the corporation itself, as the hon. Gentleman must have appreciated when he supported its setting up.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will take steps to protect mobile home residents in Wales from recent increases in rent payments.

There are no proposals at present for legislating on caravan sites.

Does the hon. Gentleman not realise that in the last 18 months mobile home residents, many of whom are retired people, have faced rent increases of 60 per cent. and more? Furthermore, does he not realise that they also face a future in which the site owner has an unchecked right to impose any rises that he thinks fit? Does the hon. Gentleman not think it is high time that the Government, in consultation with the site owners, reached an agreement to limit the extent of rises which can be imposed in this way?

I think the hon. Gentleman accepts the answer to his original question, that legislation is probably not the best way to deal with this matter. The most realistic way of helping caravan occupiers is, as he said, to have discussion and agreement between representatives of the parties concerned.

Is the Minister of State aware that by no means do we accept that legislation is not necessary? The Government must not wash their hands of the plight of caravan owners all over Wales, and particularly in my own constituency, where they are being forced to pay exorbitant increases in rent because there is no legal protection for them.

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that under the Caravan Sites Act 1968, which was passed by the previous administration, no provision was made to include measures for controlling site rents.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on the progress of road construction in south-west Wales.

A large programme of trunk road schemes in South-West Wales is being undertaken. Five schemes costing nearly £12 million are in progress. Twenty-three schemes are in the firm programme, costing over £20 million. Seven are in the preparation pool, costing over £23 million. Since last March, four schemes, each over £50,000, to a total cost of nearly £½ million have been completed.

Is the Secretary of State aware that 140 industrial and commercial concerns in Swansea have waited more than 10 years for improved road access to the city, that they are apprehensive about the long-term delay in bringing the end of the M4 to a point nearer Swansea, and that, with them, I look for a dual carriageway access to the city from that point? May I remind the right hon. and learned Gentleman that Cardiff is not the only city in Wales, and that Swansea is the other? Despite the road improvements that have been made, the people of Swansea and of West Wales generally believe that progress is deplorably slow in the light of modern traffic conditions.

My first priority remains the construction of the M4 as far west as Pont Abraham. Allied to this is the need to ensure that trunk roads serving Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire are improved as necessary to meet the need for good communications between South-West Wales and the industrial areas of South-East Wales and of England. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that communications are vital. I assure him that there will be no delay which is not occasioned by the necessity to observe the proper procedures.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will now reconsider his refusal to sanction grants to local authorities for derelict land schemes already approved.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects to publish the findings of his review of the financing of derelict land reclamation.

My right hon. and learned Friend is currently considering the derelict land programme in relation to the many schemes which have been put forward and to the other substantial claims on available resources. He hopes soon to be in a position to determine priorities among the outstanding claims for financial assistance. Meanwhile, I am glad to say that more money is being spent in the current year on derelict land clearance in Wales than in any other previous year.

The review which the hon. Gentleman has indicated seems to be taking a very long time. Is he aware that many local authorities in Wales have already committed themselves to considerable expenditure on purchasing land for clearance schemes, with the encouragement of the Welsh Office? Is he further aware that many schemes have been given the final approval of his Department? I mention two in my own constituency, the Ystalyfera Canal and the Cwmgorse schemes. In these cases, does not the hon. Gentleman realise that sanction should be given? The Welsh Office has been able to boast that the Derelict Land Unit is one of its great successes. Is not the present attitude of the Department likely to bring that success into disrepute?

I welcome the interest of all local authorities in this important work. When the review is produced local authorities will be informed as soon as possible.

In view of the months during which this review has been taking place, is the Minister of State aware that his answer is still most unsatisfactory? There are areas in the valleys which are completely clogged by road traffic. In Risca, in my constituency, not only is there no passage through the town but people lose hours at work and bus companies are not operating effectively for hours in the day because of this review? Is not the review now becoming thought of as an excuse?

We would like very much to increase the allocation for this work. As in all matters, there have to be priorities. We have many other equally important claims on available resources. We should not overlook the fact that on miscellaneous local services alone—of which derelict land clearance forms part—we shall be spending £74·2 million this year, which is an increase of £11 million on 1971–72, at constant prices. However, I quite understand the anxiety and concern of hon. Members.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when work will commence on the Glan-y-Don derelict land clearance scheme at Blaenau Ffestiniog; and whether he will make a statement.

My right hon. and learned Friend is considering this along with many other schemes for which grant aid is being sought and he will come to a decision as soon as possible. Grant has already been paid on the consultants' fees which have been incurred on the scheme.

Will the hon. Gentleman look again at the history of this scheme? Will he accept that there is an unsatisfactory state of affairs in the Derelict Land Unit and that a tremendous amount of work is being done by the unit in pressing forward with schemes, coupled with a tremendous increase in costs through one firm of consultants, which is leading to a situation in which many small authorities are finding themselves in considerable difficulties? Is it not a total waste of time to pay consultants' fees of £17,500 in work urged upon the council in question by the Derelict Land Unit when that unit should have known that the work could not go forward?

I shall see that the hon. Gentleman's views are conveyed to the Derelict Land Unit. If there is a feeling that we in the Welsh Office are not looking to derelict land problems in North Wales—although the greater number of problems lie in South Wales—I should like to give the assurance that we have the problems of North Wales very much in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received from the National Farmers' Union and the Farmers' Union of Wales about the cost of animal feeding stuffs; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. and learned Friend has received representations from both unions on the subject and I will, at the National Farmers' Union's request, be receiving a deputation tomorrow. On the second part of the Question, I would refer the right hon. Gentleman to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture to the hon. Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Alfred Morris) on 16th October 1973.—[Vol. 861, c. 94–6.]

I can summarise to the hon. Gentleman what the delegation tomorrow is likely to say to him with great force, namely, that the high and escalating cost of feedingstuffs, coupled with high interest rates and other factors, is causing great difficulty to dairy farmers in Anglesey and the rest of Wales? What are the Government proposing to do to assist these farmers, especially the smaller ones, during the coming winter months and before the price review?

I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman's preview of the delegation tomorrow. I was not aware that he was a member of the NFU, which I am. No one underestimates the problem of rising feed costs. They have been brought about mainly because of the short Northern Hemisphere harvest last year and heavy buying by Russia and China. Protein prices rose sharply over the year. This is a problem with which all Governments have been trying to deal. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food has made it clear that he is not opposed to considering ways of making an earlier announcement than next year's price review. Certainly he will be discussing this matter with the farmers' unions.

When my hon. Friend meets the farmers' representatives tomorrow, will he consider especially the difficulties of those who, with a good deal of official encouragement, embarked on expansion programmes, borrowing money for the purpose, and who now find themselves in real difficulty?

I do not underestimate the problems to which my hon. Friend refers. These will be taken into account.

Will the hon. Gentleman address his mind to one point? Although the rapidly increasing cost of feeding stuffs bears heavily on the farming community as a whole, it has an especially severe effect on milk producers. There may be an amelioration of world conditions in the next few months, but I remind him that in answer to a Question of mine on 6th November—[Vol. 863, c. 123]—the Minister of State for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food projected a still further increase in the cost of dairy feeding stuffs of 11·6 per cent. whatever happened on the world market?

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that the rise in feeding stuff costs bears more heavily on milk farmers than on others. A few months ago pig farmers shared the problem, but there has been an improvement in their position. However, in the first six months of this year milk farmers have done fairly well. It is the final six months of the year that give cause for concern. That is why I gave my earlier answer in the form that I did.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory milk-and-water nature of those replies I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will establish a public inquiry into the consequences for the environment, for agriculture, for educational facilities and for the National Parks if the Nugent Committee's proposals for Castlemartin are implemented.

It would be premature to do this while the proposals are still under consideration.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that if this were a proposal of a private developer there would have to be a full public inquiry? Will my right hon. and learned Friend assure the House that no decision has been taken by the Government and that it will be taken only after the fullest consultation with this House and the general public?

I can certainly assure my hon. Friend that no decision has been taken by the Government. As I have said previously, the report was published to provide an opportunity for public comment and discussion. There will be consultation and discussion before the Government come to a decision. There would be no occasion for a public inquiry at the moment.

Is the Secretary of State aware that when there was similar conflict over Pembrey I ensured that there would be a public inquiry and that it is most satisfactory for the Government if the public feel that their case can be fully heard at a public inquiry?

The right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that there was no public inquiry until a decision had been taken by the Government. It was after a Government decision had been taken that there was a public inquiry. The position now is that no decision has been taken.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman not aware that the Secretary of State for Wales instituted an inquiry into Pembrey when it was merely a proposal? There is no difference between then and now. Is he not aware that the Nugent Committee adopted a cavalier attitude to the people of Pembrokeshire by not consulting them in any way before the proposal emanated, in its report, of a move from Lulworth to Castlemartin?

The right hon. and learned Gentleman must know that there was a proposal by the Government of the day about Pembrey. It was following the Ministry of Defence proposal that the inquiry was held. No proposal has been put forward by the present Government about Castlemartin. A proposal has been put forward by a committee which is now being considered.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether a site has now been acquired for the proposed new hospital at Bridgend; when he expects work to start on its erection; and whether the will make a statement.

A site has been chosen and the process of acquisition is in train. Work on the new hospital is planned to start in 1977.

I am glad to hear that work is likely to start in 1977. Does the hon. Gentleman realise that since his right hon. and learned Friend replied to me on 26th September, the Government have announced a £100 million cut in capital expenditure on hospitals, schools, etc.? Will the hon. Gentleman give me an undertaking that the rephasing of Government expenditure on hospitals and schools will not delay still further this necessary hospital at Bridgend?

My information is that the new hospital at Bridgend will not be affected by that to which the hon. Gentleman refers.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what further action he now proposes in relation to safety at the Wrexham bypass roundabout, near Gresford Colliery.

Larger and additional traffic signs are being provided. The need for further measures will be considered when investigations into the recent tanker accident are completed.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that ordinarily I would not, on the Floor of the House, have raised a question about a roundabout in my constituency? However, following several accidents within a few months, including a fatality, a coroner's jury rider about the lack of safety at the roundabout and a disastrous occurrence a few weeks ago, when the road had to be closed for nine hours, and having written twice to the Secretary of State, I want to express the serious concern of my constituents about the state of affairs at the roundabout. Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman accept the seriousness of the position?

Yes, certainly. I accept that people are regarding the matter with great seriousness. I am aware of only two accidents at the roundabout since it was opened to traffic in March 1973. I am aware of the tragic accident on 27th May and the overturning tanker on 30th October. I intended to write to the hon. Gentleman about the general situation when I had completed my investigations into the tanker accident.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman take it from me that my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Mr. Ellis), who is my Member of Parliament, will receive a tremendous amount of support in Wrexham? The alleged road improvement is now so dangerous that the public of Wrexham and the surrounding area avoid it. Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman accept that whoever designed the roundabout must have had an almighty bad headache on the morning he did so?

I have considered the matter. The roundabout, as I understand it, has been constructed to standards which apply throughout the United Kingdom. I have already announced that remedial measures are being taken. We shall consider whether any further measures need to be taken in the light of the investigations into the recent accident. The police are satisfied with the measures which I have just announced.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he has had any recent discussions with the British Transport Docks Board.

No, Sir.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman appreciate that the South Wales ports have the best profit record of any group of ports in the British Isles over the past decade? Does he not feel that that constitutes a considerable argument in favour of a major port development at Uskmouth, particularly in view of the need to make the Spencer Works, with its iron ore handling facilities, fully integrated? Does he agree that the only thing that is standing in the way of such development is the political prejudice of the Government, as they were so anxious to authorise the development of the port at Bristol?

I agree with what the hon. Gentleman says about the profitability of the South Wales ports. Any proposal for a major new port development in South Wales is primarily a matter for the British Transport Docks Board. The hon. Gentleman is totally wrong when he suggests that the only thing standing in the way of new development is Government prejudice. I believe that the hon. Gentleman has been in touch with the board and that it has explained fully its views to him in a letter from its chairman.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend treat this matter with some caution? I have met some people who have long experience of the South Wales docks. They have great doubts about the Uskmouth proposal and prefer Barry as a site for this sort of venture.

The British Transport Docks Board is fully aware of the conflicting views which are held about this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will make a statement on the progress of the M4 in South Wales.

All four of the inspectors' reports on the section of the M4 between Groes and Coryton have been received, the last of them only in September. As I have previously promised, I am considering all four together and I hope to announce my decision on them early in the New Year. Tenders for the Pontardulais Bypass should be invited early in 1974, and I am giving the highest priority to the outstanding statutory procedures and preparatory work for all the remaining sections.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the delay in completing the statutory procedures of fixing the line for the M4 is being regarded in South Wales as an alibi? It is thought that the real reason for the delay is the Government's public expenditure cuts in the summer. Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the delay is causing misery to hundreds of people? How much slippage has there been in the forecast date of the starting of the road to Port Talbot and the West? Is 1976 still the operative date? It is in the interests of industry as a whole, and the steel industry at Port Talbot in particular, that the road be completed as soon as possible.

I agree with the right hon. and learned Gentleman about the importance of the earliest possible completion of the M4. I can assure him that the cuts in public expediture which were announced earlier this year will have no effect on the motorway. The delay has been occasioned solely because of the protracted procedures which have had to be gone through by way of public inquiry. There has been a demand, which the right hon. and learned Gentleman will know about, that sections should be considered together and not piecemeal. The right hon. and learned Gentleman has taken part in the inquiries. None of the submissions which have been made has had any other effect than causing delay. My anxiety is to come to a conclusion as soon as possible and to have the end of the motorway finished as soon as possible. It is impossible now to be firm about a completion date.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman apply his mind to the latter part of my right hon. and learned Friend's question? The Government and the Welsh Office in successive statements during the past three or four years have stated that 1976 will be the completion date for the Pontardulais Bypass. Will he tell us whether that still is so, and if not, why not?

I have every hope that the Pontardulais Bypass will be finished by the end of 1976. However, because of continuing procedural uncertainties I am unable to forecast completion dates for the remaining sections. It is my intention to finish the motorway as soon as possible. There will be no delay by the Welsh Office.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many new job opportunities in Flintshire have been notified to him since 1st January 1973.

About 1,050.

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that this is but the tip of what looks like a pretty sizeable iceberg? Does not this great expansion in job opportunities in Flintshire correct the false picture which has been put out by an excessively gloomy report on the way from the task force? Is it not a hopeful sign that for the first time for a long time people living in Wales but working in England are now being lured back to work in North Wales?

I do not think that the area is in any way served by gloomy prognostications. The figures I have given indicate a start, and I am sure that there is more to come. Quite a bit of activity is taking place which promises added employment. As my hon. Friend will appreciate, the figure of unemployment in Flintshire generally at the moment, despite the higher figure in the Rhyl area, is 3·1 per cent., which is below the Welsh national average.

How many of these jobs for men are at wage rates comparable with those in the steel industry? Will the Secretary of State accept that the best way to dispel gloom in East Flintshire is to say that the Government will keep the jobs in the steelworks?

So far this year approved new building schemes and applications to the Department of Trade and Industry for selective financial assistance will provide 550 jobs, of which about half are for men. In addition, Hawker's expansion at Broughton promises a further 500 jobs, most of which will be for men.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received on the proposals to change the level of rate support grant.

I have received representations about the possible effects on Welsh local authorities of proposals now under consideration for the establishment of a new rate support grant system from a number of hon. Members, the Welsh Counties Committee of the County Councils Association and one of the new Welsh counties.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman accept that there are grave misgivings about the Local Government Bill, which is to be read a Second time today? Is he further aware that we expect him to hold urgent talks with the Secretary of State for the Environment, who has forecast as much as a 60 per cent. increase in rate contributions from electors and residents in Powys? Does he appreciate that we did not want Powys? He forced it upon us. Now he will not support it financially. Does the Secretary of State support the forecast made by his right hon. Friend?

I can certainly tell the hon. Gentleman the position is that a new formula for the distribution of rate support grant is still under consideration. I do not expect that the figures he has mentioned for Powys will be anything like material.

Does the right. hon. and learned Gentleman appreciate that the formula is spelled out in Schedule 2 of the Bill that we shall be discussing later today and that, using that formula, it is the calculation of the treasurers of the eight new counties in Wales that Wales will lose no less than £7·8 million in 1974–75? Has he made his own calculation? If so, does it tally with that calculation? If he accepts the calculation, is he not shocked by it? What does he intend to do about it?

It is far too early to say what the precise effect of the new formula will be in different areas. What we have in mind is that the new grant distribution should be accompanied by measures to offset the effect of the rate burden in any areas which may lose grant. We intend to introduce a much improved rate rebate scheme to benefit the less-well-off domestic ratepayers. We propose increasing the rate of grant from 75 per cent., to 90 per cent., which will be of particular benefit in Wales.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what Welsh hospital building projects are affected by phase 3 of the counter-inflation proposals of Her Majesty's Government.

The hospital building programme will be adjusted to take account of the rephasing announced by the Government last month. The detailed effect on individual schemes will depend on the outcome of the study now being prepared by the Welsh Hospital Board.

Will the hon. Gentleman give a categoric assurance that no project concerned with fire precautions in hospitals, especially in mental hospitals, will be delayed under phase 3? Will he also look into the urgency of providing a new pharmacy at Neath General Hospital? The existing pharmacy constitutes a hazard from the point of view of escape in the event of a fire.

I shall look specifically into the point the hon. Member has raised because I do not have the answer this afternoon. The new pharmacy at Neath General Hospital will be started in 1974 instead of in the last quarter of this year.

While I welcome the hon. Gentleman's assurance that he will look into the question of fire precautions in mental hospitals, may I ask him to consider the position in Parc Mental Hospital, near Bridgend, where there is reason to fear that expenditure cuts will take place? Will he also look into the position relating to hospitals at Maesteg and Bridgend, where, again, there is reason to fear that there will be phase 3 cuts in necessary expenditure—necessary in view of the absence of the new hospital to which I referred earlier?

Yes, and I will write to the hon. Gentleman.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what discussions he has had with the Cardiff City Council designed to ensure that adequate arrangements are made for reception of the civil servants to be transferred to the Cardiff area from the Ministry of Defence and the Companies Registry in London.

My Department is maintaining close contact with the city on all aspects of planned or possible dispersals of civil servants to the Cardiff area.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware of the welcome given to the announcement about the Companies Registry being transferred to South Wales? Is he further aware that there will be grave disappointment if this is not followed by further announcements on the dispersal of civil servants to South Wales, because of the enormous potential in the area?

I am fully aware of the welcome that was given to that announcement. The Government are confident that the decision was a right one. I am also well aware of the attractions of the City of Cardiff in any dispersal policy and of the splendid job the city is doing in making these attractions known.

Is the Secretary of State aware that the people of Cardiff are somewhat perturbed at the delay in transferring these organisations? Is he further aware that these decisions were taken by his predecessor in 1969 and we expect him to show a little greater sense of urgency?

I cannot accept what the right hon. Gentleman says. Certainly the decision about the Companies Registry was taken by this Government.

The Secretary of State says that the decision was a right one. Has he studied the special pleading going on to prevent the transfer of the Companies Registry to Cardiff? Will he give the House an unqualified assurance that this transfer will take place?

I have studied the concern that has been expressed about the move from London of the Companies Registry office. That is why I said that the Government were confident that the decision was a right one.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales to what extent the hospitals in Wales are affected by staff shortages.

It is not possible to give a generalised answer, since the incidence and effect of staff shortages vary If the hon. Member has any particular hospital or particular category of staff in mind I will gladly look into it.

In view of the most unfortunate experience of one of my constituents at the very large new hospital at the Heath—a report of which the hon. Gentleman has given me, for which I am grateful—and which is no doubt due to staff shortages, medical, and otherwise, will he make sure that in future the smaller hospitals, particularly in the valleys, will not be closed? Does he agree that they have a valuable contribution to make to the local communities and that staff shortages do not always exist in them to the same extent as in the larger hospitals?

The hon. Gentleman has raised a number of separate points. I am sure that the first point he raises refers to Mrs. Higgs. If this is the case, I can only say about that sad occurrence that shortage of staff was one of the reasons why her operation needed to be postponed. The general question of the closing of smaller hospitals in the valleys and elsewhere is a matter which this and previous Governments have gone into with great care and a good deal of concern. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that this Government will continue to take this attitude.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on housing progress in Wales.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many houses were built in Wales in the private and public sectors in the first nine months of 1973; and how this compares with comparable periods from 1966 to date.

In the first nine months of 1973, 2,558 houses were built in the public sector in Wales and private house completions totalled 8,412. The data for corresponding periods from 1966 will be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT. The downward trend in house completions which began in 1967 has not yet been halted, but I am glad to say that completions of houses in the private sector reached a record level in 1972, that more private houses are now under construction than at any other time, that local authority housing approvals this year are two-and-a-half times higher than for the comparable period last year and already exceed the total for 1971, and that house improvement activity in both public and private sectors has never been exceeded.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply to an adjournment debate! Looking at the figures over the last three years, does he not agree that a reduction, on average, of about 4,000 houses per year on the pre-1970 figure is quite disastrous, that the reduction has been of the magnitude of 50 per cent. on the public sector, and that he would have to go back to the 1947 period to find a lower figure than the one achieved in 1972? Will he now say when the present Government expect the housing figure in Wales to reach 20,000, as it did in 1967?

I am sure that every hon. Member agrees that one could juggle with the figures. The real prob- lem is that of human need. If we take the total number of houses in the private and public sectors, and the number of houses improved and therefore kept in the housing sector, the figures show that there were 25,893 in 1970 and 42,621 in 1972.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in my part of Wales we regard the prospect of any more houses being built as a thorough curse? Does this not show the utter falsity of global housing figures?

I think that what my hon. Friend the Member for Flint, West (Sir A. Meyer) is saying about global housing figures has a great deal of common sense in it. One cannot judge the problems of one area of Wales by looking at the global figure.

Will the Minister judge the problems of my area of Wales and those of my hon. Friends who represent South Wales valley constituencies? Will he recognise that the disaster that is being caused by not building houses is breaking hearts and homes in the valleys? Young families cannot afford private sector houses, they cannot afford to buy old houses to renovate because of rising costs and rising prices presided over by the Conservative Government, and they now have to live separately and start their married life in that sort of depressing atmosphere.

Approvals in the public sector are more encouraging, and no doubt if I were to look at the figures in the constituency of the hon. Member for Bedwellty (Mr. Kinnock) they would be equally encouraging.

Will the Minister appreciate that in a period of two and a half years the Labour Government were able to raise the level of housing in Wales from 13,000 to 20,000? Why is it that at present, six years after the events of 1967, we are experiencing in Wales a lower level of house-building in the public sector than we have had in any year since 1946?

The hon. Gentleman refers to a figure of 20,000. I remind him that in 1970, when the Labour Government left office, the number of houses under construction in both the public and the private sectors was 16,609 and that for the first nine months of this year the figure was 20,733. He should read the figures.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects to announce his decision on the planning appeal relating to the building of houses near the cliffs at Langland, Swansea.

There is no appeal before me in respect of housing at Lang-land and I assume the hon. Member is referring to the proposal to build houses at Summerland, Caswell, about which a public local inquiry was held on 16th October. I am awaiting the inspector's report and I will announce my decision as soon as I have considered it.

Will the Secretary of State join me in condemning the attempts by the developers at the inquiry to discredit everybody who dared to oppose their application? Will he also recognise that this application is in the worst tradition of parasitic exploitation by absentee landlord interests? Will he bear in mind that, having defeated the Beaufort Estates in previous attempts to exploit common land in Swansea, the people of Swansea fully support the Swansea City Council in saying "No" to the rape of Gower Cliffs?

I do not intend to make any remarks pending the inspector's report. When I have seen the report I shall announce my decision.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will now issue a White Paper giving the fullest and most up to date information concerning the effects upon Wales of the Chancellor's statement of 21st May on his plans for the reduction of public expenditure.

I refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to a similar Question on 13th June.—[Vol. 857, c. 340.]

Does the Secretary of State agree that it is now high time that the new local authorities in Wales were in a position to know what advances they will be able to draw from central Government when they commence their duties in April next? Will he confirm what he has refused to confirm up to the present, namely, that in 1974–75 sewerage schemes in Wales will be cut by 2¾ million, and that that information has already been given by the Welsh Office to a House Committee?

The Government accept that the local authority expenditure must continue to grow, but the rate of growth recently has been above that of public expenditure as a whole, and it is necessary for there to be some restraint on less essential items. The hon. Gentleman will know that a circular was sent to local authorities on 8th June indicating the savings which the Government would expect to be achieved in that expenditure.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what is his policy towards expanding the British coalmining industry.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will now announce plans for the extended use of coal and its exploitation, in view of the prospective fuel shortage.

My right hon. Friend told the House in his statement on 24th October that we were discussing with the National Coal Board its plans for the further development of the coalmining industry. These discussions will inevitably be affected by the decision of the Executive of the National Union of Mineworkers to ban overtime. The effect that such decisions will have upon these plans must, at this stage, be uncertain.

Is the Minister aware that the possibility of oil rationing makes the rapid and immediate expansion of the coalmining industry imperative? Is he further aware that we shall not achieve an expansion of the coal industry without a substantial increase in the pay of coal miners?

The hon. Gentleman must recognise what the present Govenment have done for the coalmining industry in the advances of grants to provide better redundancy terms and in making better pension schemes. In return, we have received from the coalmining industry an assurance of security of supply. I hope the hon. Gentleman will support the plea of the National Coal Board that at a time when we are facing energy problems the miners should not inflict on this country the shortage which will inevitably follow if they go ahead with the decision that they have announced.

As this country is in an energy crisis, may I ask my hon. Friend to take a leaf out of the American book and encourage the private sector to enter further into mining to produce the coal required for electricity?

I note what my hon. Friend has said.

Referring to the suggestion by the hon. Member for Bedford (Mr. Skeet) about developing the private sector, does the Minister realise that firms like the Cementation Company are already offering jobs at £15 a day, and that the National Coal Board in some areas is in fact employing such people? Does he not understand that there must be something wrong with a system that allows outside contractors to work alongside miners at twice their wages and then him to attack the miners for what he calls blackmail? What sort of a set-up is that?

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will therefore give his wholehearted support to the Government's counter-inflation policy, which produces for the miners an average increase of 13 per cent., which will enable those working full-time on the coal face with normal overtime to earn over £50 a week. I believe that the Government have made fair offers to the coal industry and that the NCB has put forward proposals which members of the National Union of Mineworkers should consider individually.

What conceivable relationship, as suggested in the Minister's original answer, is there between the decision by the National Union of Mineworkers to ban overtime and the long-term possibility of developing our indigenous fuel resources? Will he stop this nonsense and realise that the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) is substantial, and requires an answer? If we are to have a counter-inflation policy it must be fair and apply to everybody.

The National Coal Board has put forward its long-range plan, which we were in the course of discussing with the industry. The plan has been discussed with the unions. It was and is a constructive plan, which provides for expansion of certain areas of the coalmining industry. Unfortunately, the action taken, so far as it results in a contraction of parts of the industry, must inhibit elements of that long-range plan. It would not be realistic, at any rate until we are able to see a little more clearly what will happen, to discuss the long-range plan while at the same time there is a contraction which will flow if the overtime ban is implemented in the way that is threatened.

rose—

Order. Hon. Members must allow me to move on to Questions to the Attorney-General, which should be not later than 3.20 p.m. We are already two minutes late.