asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what further plans he has for a meeting with the Prime Minister of the Irish Republic.

I have no plans at present for such a meeting.

I am sorry to hear that. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the statement which was made by Dr. Fitzgerald, the Foreign Minister of Eire, in Dublin on Tuesday regarding the progress which has been made by his Government towards the future conference on a Council of Ireland? Will he tell us what progress has been made here and when he hopes that the conference will take place?

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman should be sorry. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister saw the Prime Minister of the Republic not long ago. There are always opportunities for further meetings as and when appropriate. As the hon. Gentleman will know, Dr. Fitzgerald saw me last week. I had confidential discussions with him. I do not wish to go further at present.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is grave discontent in Northern Ireland because of the comments reportedly made by the Foreign Minister of the Irish Republican Government that he wants a Council of Ireland with powers which would interfere with the internal affairs of Northern Ireland? When my right hon. Friend next meets Dr. Fitzgerald, will he tell him that the people of Northern Ireland do not wish the constitution of Eire any longer to claim sovereignty over Northern Ireland?

I shall stick to the point which I have made. I have had discussions with Dr. Fitzgerald. Those discussions were confidential. Dr. Fitzgerald is entitled to make his speeches and I am entitled to make mine. I think that we will stay where we are.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the House any indication of how soon he hopes that even exploratory tripartite talks may take place on a wide basis about a Council of Ireland?

As the hon. Gentleman will be the first to appreciate, the negotiations which I am conducting are at a delicate stage. I would rather say nothing at present. I realise the need for urgency.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what steps he is taking to reduce the inducement to smuggle livestock into the Republic of Ireland.

Every effort is being made to apprehend those responsible for smuggling pigs into the Republic and discussions are taking place with the Republic to try to overcome this difficult problem.

I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. Is there any information to suggest that smuggling has increased since the House prohibited the export of animals for slaughter? Are more animals now being subjected to longer sea voyages?

The short answer is "No". Much depends on the animals concerned. The smuggling which takes place is mostly pig smuggling. There is legitimate trade in other livestock.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied with the treatment and conditions of livestock in transit between Northern Ireland and the Republic?

Absolutely.

Under the EEC regulations, is the movement of livestock in either direction illegal?

Obviously there are EEC regulations regarding pigs. Levies have to be paid when they go into the Republic. The smuggling takes place because there are other advantages in the Republic, which means that a higher price can be paid for the pigs there than in Northern Ireland.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the progress toward the setting up of the Northern Ireland Executive.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the progress of talks to form an Executive for the Northern Ireland Assembly.

My talks with the Alliance Party, the Social Democratic and Labour Party and the Ulster Unionist Party continue to make useful progress, and I will make a statement as soon as I can.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for those remarks. Does he concur that the attitude of those in Northern Ireland who are trying to achieve a political settlement of the problems there commends itself to the House, and that the attitude of those who are trying to frustrate a political settlement is condemned by the House in general and by himself in particular?

I have said both things in the past. I applaud the statements of those on all sides who are seeking to reach an agreement on a constitutional basis under the law of the land, that law being passed by this Parliament with the agreement of all parties in it. I applaud the statesmanship of those who seek to reach a settlement on that basis. I can only deplore those who by unconstitutional means are seeking to bully the Government and Parliament. Those who seek by constitutional means to oppose the Government are perfectly within their rights. I hope that no one will seek to blur the distinction which exists between constitutional and unconstitutional means.

I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend's personal rôle in the talks. That is widely appreciated. I hope that the talks will come to a successful conclusion. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that there will not be a debate on Northern Ireland until the talks reach a conclusion?

I have to bear in mind that the House is anxious for a debate, and I understood that my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House gave a indication last week that one will be announced. I think that a debate would be valuable whatever the exact situation of my talks might be.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that, while considerable progress has been made in the inter-party talks in Northern Ireland, it would be foolish to set a time limit on them because many obstacles still have to be overcome before an Executive can be formed? Does he not also agree that it would be not only foolish but extremely dangerous to set up an Executive which would be in danger of collapsing at the first signs of stress?

I agree with the last point put by the hon. Gentleman. On the first point he and I both feel the need for speed where at all possible, and we have to bear that in mind.

Can my right hon. Friend ensure that, in the setting up of an Executive, the proportions of Unionist, SDLP and Alliance members will reflect their strength in the country as shown in the elections for the Assembly and in the earlier plebiscite?

These are matters which have to be carefully taken into account during the discussions.

Following the right hon. Gentleman's answer about the upsurge of violence in Northern Ireland in the last few days, may I ask whether he is aware that he will get full support from the Opposition in dealing with those who, as usual when there is a sign of politics moving in Northern Ireland, are trying to use violence to prevent it from happening?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I hope that those who may have thought that it is possible to bully or coerce the United Kingdom Government and Parliament will realise that that will not happen.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will place in the Library copies of the papers prepared by him as a basis for discussion between the party leaders in Northern Ireland with a view to the formation of a Northern Ireland Executive.

No, Sir. These documents were prepared for confidential talks.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, while we understand that when delicate negotiations are going on papers for discussion must remain confidential, there is considerable public anxiety and, indeed, harmful misrepresentation taking place about what is happening in these talks and that the sooner something can be said to allay public anxiety, particularly when things are being done behind the backs of the electorate, the better?

Nothing could be further from the truth. Nothing is being done behind the backs of the electorate. I made a very full statement on one set of talks about the constitutitonal position under the Northern Ireland Constitution Act and another full statement about law and order. Both statements were made public for everyone to see.

Is the Secretary of State just as confused as I am about the different types of Unionist Party represented in this House? Does he agree that, as the hon. and gallant Member for Down, South (Captain Orr) is a member of the Unionist Party, it would be open to him to go to his leader, Mr. Faulkner, who is involved in the talks, and ask to see these papers?

One thing I have learned about Northern Ireland is that it is wise for me not to comment on any parties there, and I do not.

Is it not curious—I exclude my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Down, South (Captain Orr)—that those who have threatened to destroy the Assembly and the Executive are now taking a slightly more constructive interest in these matters?

That is so. They said at the start that they had no wish to take any part in the talks, that they had no desire to see an Executive formed and that they would do everything in their power to stop it being formed. They cannot contract in and out. If they have contracted out, they cannot hope to take part in the talks.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement about the constitutional position in Northern Ireland.

The constitutional position of Northern Ireland is that set out in the Northern Ireland Constitution Act 1973.

Will my right hon. Friend take careful heed of what is said in the Kilbrandon Report about representation here of Northern Ireland? Will he realise that some of us think that Kilbrandon underestimates the proper representation here? May we in this House have available the proceedings of the Northern Ireland Assembly?

Obviously, discussions about the Kilbrandon Report are continuing and it would be wrong for me to anticipate discussions inside the Government and in the House. I will look into my hon. Friend's suggestion that the proceedings of the Northern Ireland Assembly should be available in this House.

With regard to the constitutional position in Northern Ireland as it stands, and with particular reference to the action which the Secretary of State had to take on Monday morning following the unconstitutional activities over the weekend by Unionist extremist forces, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that, within hours of his banning those two illegal organisations, a statement was issued by them declaring their intention to continue with unconstitutional activities—with bombings and killings—and to give their full political support to the political parties which are led by Mr. Craig and the hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley), and that as yet Mr. Craig and the hon. Member have not dissociated themselves from these organisations?

I note what the hon. Gentleman said in his first point and I can only lay emphasis and further stress on my remarks about unconstitutional action. It would be wrong for me to seek to interpret statements which may have been made either by the hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley) or, indeed, by Mr. Craig. They must make their own statements, but I trust that they will completely dissociate themselves from violence and unconstitutional methods—and do so unequivocally, if I may say so.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree with me that it is completely wrong and dangerous for the hon. Member for Belfast, West (Mr. Fitt) to suggest that these are Unionist groups? They have nothing to do with the Unionist Party. Does my right hon. Friend also accept that the people of Northern Ireland have the right, as the people of Great Britain have the right whether they be on the Labour or the Conservative side of this House, to push the Government to follow policies which they believe right? Is my right hon. Friend aware that we in Northern Ireland feel that the constitutional proposals are not in the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland?

I think I dealt with my hon. Friend's point in a previous answer. I said that it was perfectly proper for anyone in any democratic society to oppose the actions of any Government by constitutional means. No one can doubt that. It is equally not right for people to oppose Parliament and Government by unconstitutional or violent means. The important point is that that distinction should not be blurred in any way.

Is it not important, whatever mix-up there might be about who supports whom, that anyone who is a democrat, who stands for election, should say not just to the IRA but to the UFF and other oganisations that they are wrong? Does not the right hon. Gentleman also agree that some hon. Members in this House who have been elected ought to stand up and be counted? I have here a document from the UFF which says

"we give our 100 per cent. support to … the Democratic Unionist Party and the Loyalist Coalition"

I can only say that I hope that action on the hon. Gentleman's suggestion will be taken by those concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will give the latest statistics for the latest available year as compared with the previous two years for (a) the discovery of illegal firearms and (b) the detection of terrorists.

Up to 12th November, 1,421 illegal firearms had been recovered this year by the security forces. This compares with figures of 717 and 1,264 for the whole of 1971 and 1972 respectively. Some 1,246 people have been arrested and charged this year with terrorist offences. Exactly comparable figures for 1971 and 1972 are not available, but in these years 659 and 769 people respectively were convicted of terrorist offences.

I am grateful for those figures. Does my hon. Friend agree that the British people have every reason to be extremely proud of the outstanding work done by the British Army and the Royal Ulster Constabulary in maintaining law and order so patiently and effectively? Do the figures include not only convictions in court but also those who have been detained? Does my hon. Friend agree that at the top of the list for discussion at the first Council of Ireland meeting should be the need for closer co-operation between the British and Republican Armies in maintaining law and order?

I am sure the whole House will echo what my hon. Friend has just said about the Army and the RUC. My figures do not include those who have been detained, but up to the same date in 1973 a total of 366 people had been detained by the commissioners. Lastly, the public statement made by my right hon. Friend about the constitutional talks makes clear the importance he attaches to working with the South in matters of security.

In view of the present rash of sectarian assassinations and the proscription of the two organisations last Monday, will the hon. Gentleman comment on the claim in the Observer by Kevin Myers last Sunday that in almost three years of daily travelling in Protestant areas he had not been stopped or searched by the Army but that on the previous Tuesday alone he was stopped four times and his car searched once?

It is long-established practice not to make comments from the Dispatch Box about individual articles in newspapers. I can only tell the hon. Gentleman that Ministers are always receiving, properly and rightly, complaints from both sides about the way in which people are stopped in all quarters of Belfast in the effort to maintain the peace.

Can my hon. Friend tell us the number of British soldiers killed in the same period as compared with the previous year?

I would need notice of that question. I will gladly write to my hon. and gallant Friend. I may add that the figure shows a diminution.

On the question of the detection of terrorists and the two organisations that were banned in the earlier part of the week, will the hon. Gentleman give an undertaking that the exercise will not stop there? Will he say that there will be a ruthless follow-up to find all who are members of the proscribed organisations or are giving support in any way? Will the same impartiality be shown when detecting terrorists of different political persuasions?

I can give an absolute assurance that exactly the same standards will be applied on both sides. The Government are determined to get at terrorism, whoever may be responsible.

While I welcome the work which the security forces have done in the past year, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he is aware that the tempo of violence and the number of explosions, deaths and injuries in the past 12 months have been very much greater than in the previous two years? Is he aware that one of the reasons for this was the existence for more than three years in Northern Ireland of "no-go" areas where terrorists could prepare for their violent activities? Does he appreciate that, if the security forces had wished to take the offensive against the terrorists three years ago, they could have brought this violence under control very much more quickly? What steps are they taking to end violence?

Although I am sure he says it in good faith, my hon. Friend is not right when he says that there has been an increase in tempo. I am glad to say this and to make it clear that since the days when the security forces entered the "no-go" areas there has been a downward trend in terms of violence.

While welcoming the tremendous improvement that has taken place in the security position, may I ask whether the Minister is aware of the concern in the whole House over the recent spate of extremist bombings in the past fortnight and some of the particularly hideous crimes which are reported to have taken place in Belfast? Is he further aware that there is real concern that the security forces should now show an even-handedness between both sides of the community? Does he realise that it would be helpful if we could get figures giving a breakdown of the number of searches in various areas and the arms seizures in those areas, because it would appear that from now on the security forces must lay increasing emphasis on areas which they have neglected in the past?

If the hon. Gentleman wishes me to give figures for any particular category I will gladly do so. He will find that there is evenhandedness when it comes to the administration of justice and the repression of terrorism. I agree that there have been some foul crimes, not only on the Protestant extremist side. The murder of the boy abducted from a training school was perhaps one of the nastiest episodes we have so far experienced in Northern Ireland.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what is the monthly average of home starts in Northern Ireland for 1973, and how this compares with 1972, 1971 and 1970; what are the reasons for the drop; and what steps are being taken to stop the decline.

The monthly average of house starts in Northern Ireland over the first nine months of 1973 was 803, compared with 908 in 1972, 1,192 in 1971 and 1,003 in 1970. The decrease in activity in the public sector is largely due to the effects of the disturbances, particularly in redevelopment areas. Every effort is being made to overcome these problems, but a full recovery in the programme must depend upon a return to normality in the disturbed areas.

Are not these figures of great concern since the housing starts programme seems to be running into considerable difficulties? In underlining the great need which exists for additional housing in Northern Ireland, particularly for those coming from areas of tension, and also recognising the great difficulties which exist in this whole subject, may I ask my hon. Friend to intervene and try to pinpoint the particular problem areas for house starts and to give every assistance in trying to solve the problem?

I am glad to do that and every effort is now being made to pinpoint the difficulties. My hon. Friend puts his finger on the point when he talks about areas of tension. We are dealing with a situation in which there has been enormous movement of the population, with a great reluctance on the part of certain people to live in areas where they may feel themselves in danger. As a result there is a very difficult situation when it comes to providing houses in places where people are willing to live.

Will the hon. Gentleman agree that the reduction in housing starts in Northern Ireland is no greater in percentage terms than it is in this country? If he attributes the reduction in starts in Northern Ireland to violence and uncertainty, to what does he attribute the fall in this country?

This is not my responsibility. Those who are familiar with the scene in Northern Ireland recognise the situation as particularly difficult. The Housing Executive does an extremely difficult job very efficiently, and I believe that it deserves credit for what it does.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there are many thousands of homeless families in Northern Ireland, particularly in North and West Belfast, who have been forced to leave their homes as a result of intimidation by one set of extremists or another? Is he further aware that the Housing Executive has placed a limit on the amount of money it is prepared to pay to buy homes to rehouse these people and that the figure of £3,500 is completely unsatisfactory and is causing a great queue on the housing list? Will he say that he will have a further look at this figure to see whether it is possible to increase it?

I am acutely aware of the severe housing shortage and the overcrowding in West Belfast and other areas. I am not sure about the figure to which the hon. Member refers. If he is referring to the civil disturbance purchase scheme, this is something we have been reviewing. It is making progress and I am confident that we will be able to overcome the difficulties and make it even more effective.

May I draw the attention of the Minister to an article which appeared recently in the Sunday Times dealing with the activities of property speculators in Belfast? Is he aware that this article mentioned the name of the hon. Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Stratton Mills) who raised this question? Will he accept from those of us who have had experience of these same property speculators that we would not want this problem to be transferred to Belfast?

I am not in a position to comment on newspaper articles of a speculative kind.

On a point of order. I apologise for intervening, Mr. Speaker, but as my name has been mentioned I think the House should know that shortly after that article appeared The Times on 9th October published a full apology saying that there was no connection between either myself or any company with which I was associated and the items to which the article referred.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what representations he has received from the Northern Ireland Housing Executive about manpower shortages in the repair and maintenance sectors.

None, Sir, but close liaison exists between the Ministry of Health and Social Services and the Housing Executive on the general question of the supply of construction manpower.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Does he accept that, in the flexibility of interpretation of stage 3, statutory bodies are at a disadvantage compared with private contractors? Will he therefore encourage the Housing Executive to make greater use of private contractors for repair and maintenance work?

It may be that my hon. Friend has a particular point in mind. If he will write or contact me I will gladly take it up with him. I think he is talking about a specific point.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on border security following the recent incidents on the Armagh border at Bessbrook, Newtownhamilton and Crossmaglen.

The security forces take all practicable steps to counter the activities of terrorists in border areas, including increasing co-operation with security forces in the South. Additional measures are being taken; a number of unapproved roads have been closed with the full co-operation of those immediately concerned in the area.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the essential element in controlling terrorist activity in Northern Ireland is to have a strong force on the border? Will he give the House an assurance that border security will be stepped up so that people living in these areas, especially in South Armagh, will have the full protection of the law? Will he also give an assurance that the Ulster Defence Regiment will be made much better use of in future than in the past?

It is true, as my hon. Friend says, that the border situation is one important factor in the overall security situation. When it comes to deployment of security forces I think he will recognise that the more there are on the border the fewer there are in the cities. It may well be that a view has to be taken overall about the best way in which the security forces can be distributed. I fully concur that the Ulster Defence Regiment is doing a valuable job. Constant support and encouragement is given to it because we believe that it has an essential part to play in the overall security effort.

Does the increase in incidents indicate any deterioration in the military intelligence available to our forces?

I do not want to comment on intelligence as such. The general point that is commented upon is that, as successes have increased in city areas, inevitably there has been a movement towards trying to make more trouble in the border areas to draw the troops away. This is believed to be one of the strategies. Moving troops to the border areas in a massive way would be responding to what the terrorists want.

In view of the increased activity by terrorists along the border areas, may I ask why the Government have withdrawn 1,200 soldiers from Northern Ireland and, I understand, are to withdraw an additional 600 before the end of the year? Why are they not used on the border area?

The requirements of troops are kept under continuous review in the light of the security situation. There has been increased terrorist activity on the border area, but in the last few days we have also seen vicious terrorism in Belfast of a particularly unpleasant kind. This, too, has to be reckoned with.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what changes he is planning in the name, structure or organisation of the Royal Ulster Constabulary.

As my right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State have consistently made clear, the RUC will remain the police force in Northern Ireland.

I thank my hon. Friend for that answer as far as it goes, but he has not said anything about the name of the Royal Ulster Constabulary which has caused some concern in my constituency. Is he aware of the concern that is felt by many senior officers in the police force about the requirement that in future they must have two years' experience outside Northern Ireland before being eligible for further promotion? Will he look into that matter? In many cases it will be impractical to expect senior officers to leave Northern Ireland for two years at this stage.

I would hope that my original answer was extremely clear. Indeed, the Royal Ulster Constabulary is a very proud title. It will remain the police force in Northern Ireland.

Is the Minister aware that the Opposition welcome the fact that the Police Federation of the RUC has recently had discussions with political parties, including the SDLP? This has not happened before, and we hope that it augurs well for the future. In this regard many of us believe that stage 3 is idiotic, but it is more particularly idiotic when applied to Northern Ireland. What is the hon. Gentleman's attitude to the Police Federation's recent claim and the Government's refusal to make special payments to the RUC?

I also welcome, and am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for drawing attention to, the increasing contact between the political parties and the Police Federation. I will avoid commenting this afternoon on the particular financial matter. On the broader question, I draw the hon. Gentleman's attention to a very important and far-reaching speech by the Chief Constable yesterday about the rôle of the RUC in future. I think that will repay study.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many persons convicted and sentenced in Northern Ireland are currently serving their sentences in gaols outside Northern Ireland, and if he will publish details in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Eighteen. It would not be in the interests of the prisoners concerned to publish details.

I appreciate that reply. Does the Minister accept that, while no one condones the terrible crimes that have been committed either here or in Northern Ireland during the past few years—of course, our sincerest sympathy must go to the unfortunate victims of those crimes—many young people now in gaols in this country are themselves the victims of a repressive and violent background? Will he use his influence with his right hon. Friends to have as many of these prisoners as possible transferred to gaols near their homes so that their relatives, often elderly and infirm, can visit them regularly?

I think that the hon. Gentleman is particularly interested in a case where the crime was committed not in Northern Ireland, to which the Question refers, but in Scotland. Therefore, any question of moving that prisoner would not be a matter for me. I have said that 18 prisoners convicted and sentenced in Northern Ireland are serving their sentences in gaols outside the Province. That has generally been because they have made a request, under the ordinary procedures, to be so transferred.

Earlier today my hon. Friend mentioned the case of a mentally retarded boy of 15 who had been abducted from St. Patrick's Roman Catholic Training School by the Provisional IRA and subsequently murdered. Will he assure the House that an inquiry will be set up to look into the circumstances in which three men could take two boys from that school at lunch-time and the school not notify the authorities that the boys had been taken until one was subsequently found dying?

Intensive police and security force inquiries are going on into that matter. It would not be appropriate for me to say more at present.

How many prisoners are still in gaol following the introduction of internment in 1971?

The hon. Gentleman is a little out of date. That process has been superseded by one of detention. I will give him the exact figures, if he wishes, of those at present in detention, but, as he will know, they include members of both communities.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he expects to make an announcement about his response to the common law enforcement area proposed by the Minister for External Affairs in the Republic of Eire.

I cannot yet say, but the proposals are being examined.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the deep resentment felt throughout Northern Ireland at the idea that the Dublin Government should seriously suggest a modification in the existing British judicial system which would mean that British citizens would be tried by the courts of a foreign State for crimes committed within the United Kingdom? Does not my right hon. Friend regard that as an arrogant and unacceptable proposal?

I think that my hon. Friend will have to consider this matter in the broadest possible context. Complicated legal issues are involved. If my hon. Friend and others, with whom I strongly associate myself, find it difficult to accept the position when extradition happens to exist as a one-way traffic and we are not able to get people extradited from the South because of the present legal process, they have to realise that if there were a change in that situation it could be of great advantage to all concerned. If, in the interests of security throughout the whole of Ireland—North and South—there were greater co-operation, which would mean more co-operation across the border, that could only be in the best interests of everyone concerned. That is the basis upon which all these discussions are proceeding.

The Opposition hope that this idea will be considered seriously because, for the reasons given by the right hon. Gentleman, after a political solution has been found security will remain one of the basic issues to be dealt with.

That is undoubtedly true, and I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I add only that no one can doubt the importance of close co-operation between the authorities in the North and the South as a means of ending violence.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what was the total cost of agricultural support in Northern Ireland in the latest available year.

The total cost of agricultural support in Northern Ireland in the form of United Kingdom grants and subsidies in 1972–73 was £34,940,000. This figure does not include the cost of grants carried on Northern Ireland Votes to cover schemes to help to counter the effects of remoteness and to create and maintain employment.

I thank my hon. Friend for that information. Can he give the House some indication of the future of these special schemes to promote agricultural production in Northern Ireland which were launched about a year ago? Is it intended to keep up the schemes or to wind them up?

The aid scheme to poultry farmers has ended. The other schemes will continue because we believe that they help to provide full employment in Northern Ireland, which is so important now.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what progress has been made in brucellosis eradication in Northern Ireland.

In Northern Ireland, after a period of voluntary testing, compulsory eradication of brucellosis began in dairy herds in 1963 and in beef herds in 1965. I am happy to say that by the end of 1971 infection was reduced to a level which satisfied the Ministry of Agriculture that Northern Ireland should be declared a brucellosis-free area.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply, but may I ask whether he is satisfied that all practical steps are being taken to minimise the spread of this disease from the Republic of Southern Ireland?

Indeed, and we have started to take further steps to deal with this problem. New regulations are about to be announced.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the number of outbreaks which have occurred in Eire are a cause for alarm? I notice that the Minister for Agriculture in Eire admitted that only six of his 26 counties were brucellosis-free. Will my hon. Friend give an undertaking that everything possible will be done to tighten control and movement?

Yes, Sir. The new regulations will help to deal with the problem that we are experiencing from the Republic.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what progress has been made in the hill cow scheme in Northern Ireland.

In the five years ended 1972 the number of claims paid under the Hill Cattle (Northern Ireland) Scheme has risen by 1,300. In this period there has been an increase of 41,000 in the number of cows eligible for subsidy. The scheme plays an important part in encouraging farmers in Northern Ireland to utilise hill land and to produce stores for beef production.

I thank my hon. Friend for that excellent reply. Will he give serious consideration to the possibility of extending the scheme to the marginal areas which are now outside its scope?

I am not able to comment on that now, save to say that a deputation has been to see me about this very matter and that we are considering it.