asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is now able to announce financial approval for the Huntlyburn Hospital as proposed by the South East Regional Hospital Board.

My right hon. Friend has decided that the Huntlyburn Hospital should be built as a single phase project and he has authorised a start to building as quickly as planning can be completed. After a full examination of the proposal to use the plans of Dumfries District General Hospital at Huntlyburn, we have reached the conclusion that alterations to the plans for technical and functional reasons would have to be so extensive as to constitute a complete redesign of the hospital. There would, therefore, be little or no time saved in adopting them, and the new plans which will be produced will meet the specific needs of the Borders and will make the best use of the site.

That is a very encouraging announcement. Will the hon. Gentleman say when he expects a start on the actual building, and will he engage in even more crystal gazing and say when it will be finished?

The most important point is to finish the hospital. We would expect it to be completed in about six years, which will be two or three years quicker than would be the case if it were done under the old Band III and Band V of the original programme. That is the present position. This is a great step forward and I am glad that my right hon. Friend has been able to announce it today.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has to meet the Educational Institute for Scotland and other teachers' organisations.

I have regular contacts with the teachers' organisations, but I propose to invite the three principal organisations to meet me as soon as practicable.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that responsible reply. Does he agree that it is imperative that he should meet the teachers' organisations as quickly as possible, bearing in mind that in the West of Scotland there is a shortage of 1,195 teachers and that the Educational Institute for Scotland has put forward a suggestion that a working party be set up immediately to deal with teachers' problems? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that if the answer is not in the affirmative the consequences can be very serious? Will he also take note of what has been said by the Scottish Senior Secondary Teachers Association and the Scottish Schoolmasters Association? Does he further agree that unless something drastic is done by the Government there could be a serious situation for teachers in Scotland?

I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman is concerned about this matter, which he raised on the Adjournment debate on Monday night. I shall listen to any topics which the teachers' organisations wish to raise with me when we meet. I shall try to arrange a meeting which is suitable to the three organisations as soon as possible. The hon. Gentleman would not want to give the impression that the situation to which he has referred applies throughout Scotland. I accept that it is bad in Lanarkshire, Glasgow and Renfrewshire, but elsewhere it is satisfactory.

Will my hon. Friend keep an open mind on the proposal for a working party or some other form of inquiry into the staffing position in Scotland? In his discussions will he take every step to avoid a strike, which could further disrupt the serious staffing problem in the West of Scotland?

I hope that any discussions which I have will make the teachers' organisations think again about strike action. I hope it will not come to that. There is a conditions of service committee set up between the local authorities and the teaching organisations. This committee can meet at any time, and has regular meetings. I should like to consider what the teachers' organisations say to me before I make any further pronouncement.

When the hon. Gentleman meets the teachers' organisations will he also consider meeting the Association of Technical Teachers in order to consider its claim that all existing teachers of technical subjects should be granted the new technical teacher's diploma in education without having to sit the examinations set for those teachers? Will he give this matter serious consideration?

I shall give consideration to it, but this is another question. There is a misunderstanding about the technical teachers. I shall write to the hon. Gentleman about this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a further statement on staffing shortages in secondary schools in the West of Scotland.

There are shortages in Lanarkshire, Glasgow and Renfrewshire, but in Dunbartonshire and Ayrshire the supply position is generally satisfactory.

Will the Minister accept that there is a desperately serious situation, at least in Glasgow, where almost 5,000 secondary children are receiving part-time education? Does not that call for urgent action? Will the Minister be prepared to look, first, at the question of designated schools and, secondly, at the suggestion that children should be permitted to leave school at the age of 16? Will he do that before next July's review?

My hon. Friend may have got exaggerated figures of the number of children receiving part-time education in Glasgow.

They are your figures.

My information is that there are nine schools where part-time education is taking place, and the pupils there are losing rather less than five hours education per week. I am looking at the position of designated schools because the scheme runs out this session and I hope that a new one will be announced in good time, so that teachers are aware of the new incentives when considering which authorities to apply to for posts.

May I stress this question of designated schools and payments? Will the hon. Gentleman have a word with the Treasury about the possibility of getting money urgently for these schools? Is he aware that in the West of Scotland such a move would go a long way towards alleviating difficulties?

The hon. Gentleman, who also spoke in the Adjournment debate on Monday evening, is asking me to do the impossible. I hope to meet the teachers' associations much more quickly than it would be reasonable to expect the Treasury to give any decision on the future of the designation scheme. In any event, as it is a salaries question we have to go to the salaries committee before any pronouncements can be made.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the shortage of teachers in the secondary schools in Glasgow.

On the basis of standards proposed in my Department's recent Report on Secondary School Staffing for attainment over the next few years, I estimate the present shortage in Glasgow at about 350 teachers.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the poorer schools are those which are worst off in Glasgow? Does he accept that he cannot direct teachers? Will the hon. Gentleman do something about teachers who have been teaching for two years in designated schools, taking home £25 a week and with a £13 a week mortgage, before they are due to take industrial action? Secondly, will the hon. Gentleman take into consideration for these designated schools the amount of money being saved because of the shortage of teachers?

As I have explained earlier to hon. Gentlemen, the designation scheme is under consideration at present. It would be wrong for me to anticipate any result that might come, but I have emphasised the importance of this scheme in attracting teachers to areas where they are particularly needed. The hon. Gentleman's second point was on the issue of salaries for teachers, and that matter goes to the salaries committee next week.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many requests he has had from parents asking that their children be granted early exemption or allowed to finish with school on their sixteenth birthday.

Since the school leaving age was raised on 1st September 1972 I have had 14 inquiries from parents either direct or through hon. Members.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that several parents have come to me complaining that their sons and daughters have been unable to take up suitable jobs because they cannot leave school at the age of 16? Does he not agree that even today many working-class families require the income of young members of the family, who must now remain at school after the age of 16? Has he noted that the Educational Institute of Scotland thinks that it is right and proper that young adolescents should leave on their sixteenth birthday? Will he come round to the institute's way of thinking?

I must at this stage disagree with the hon. Member. I take his point that if pupils were able to leave school at the age of 16 they could possibly take up immediate employment. On the other hand, it is a greater advantage to them to complete their education. My right hon. Friend has announced that we shall look at this, perhaps, in about a year's time, when we have evidence of the effects of the raising of the school leaving age. I would not like to close the door to the hon. Gentleman's suggestion.

Will my hon. Friend keep an open mind on the question of applying exemptions on a regional basis, for example in Glasgow and Lanarkshire? In case there is any misunderstanding about the serious nature of the problem, will he confirm the figure he gave me two weeks ago that 6,473 secondary children in Glasgow and Lanarkshire are receiving part-time education, of whom three quarters are in Glasgow?

I have said that we shall look at this in due course. I note what my hon. Friend says about the figures he has in his possession.

Does the Minister accept that these teacher shortage problems, although much more serious in the West of Scotland, are not confined to that area? Is he aware that even in Edinburgh there are such shortages? Is not one of the root problems the fact that teachers are low-paid workers? Is it not intolerable that a qualified teacher can take home less than £20 a week?

The hon. Gentleman ought to be fair. Edinburgh education authority had a surplus of 113 teachers in September. I do not think that the hon. Member has a good case for saving that there is a shortage there. Accepting that this is a matter of maldistribution, hon. Gentlemen should agree that this is not a new phenomenon. It has been going on for a long time. Since the pupil-teacher ratio in January 1969 was 16·9 to 1 and in September 1973 was 16 to 1, it seems that it was very much worse under a Labour Government.

To return to the Question on the Order Paper, if the Minister says that only 14 representations have been made, will he accept that this is only the tip of the iceberg and that there is now genuine and widespread concern among parents, pupils, teachers and employers about the way in which the Government are sticking to the provisions relating to the raising of the school leaving age? Is he aware that employers would prefer a steady flow of labour on to the market at the sixteenth birthday?

In some ways it could be said that such a move would be unfair to those who remained at school until a month or two later. The major advantage of this is that the schools can plan courses for the final year in the knowledge that pupils will remain long enough to benefit from them. It is the interests of the children about which we are concerned, not so much those of the employers.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland on what date planning permission was granted to expand the refining capacity of the BP oil refinery at Grangemouth.

No planning permission has been sought or granted for such expansion.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I am disappointed with that answer? Does he not realise that it means that BP has no intention of expanding its refining capacity at Grangemouth? Will he, when he next meets Sir Eric Drake, Chairman of BP, suggest that the company uses some of the money which will be received in compensation from the State of Kuwait to expand refining capacity in Scotland? If that is not possible, will he give serious consideration to an immediate decision on the applications by Chevron, Orsi and others which wish to increase refining capacity in Scotland as quickly as possible?

BP has indicated its general intention to expand its refinery capacity at Grangemouth in due course. The land zoned for industry is available within BP's present site at Grangemouth. Planning permission would be required from the local authority.

Will the right hon. Gentleman not fall over himself in giving permission to build these refineries all over the place? Is he aware that in some countries, notably the United States, the authorities are now so concerned about the harm done to the environment that they are not allowing many of these things to be built? Will he see that Scottish interests, as opposed to refinery interests, are given a fair crack of the whip?

The hon. Gentleman has drawn attention to the environmental side of this picture. It is as planning Minister that I have to take what is in some cases a difficult decision whether to allow an application on a particular site.

With North Sea oil coming, have the Government a policy dealing with the correct or adequate level of refining capacity in Scotland?

The situation, as recent weeks have shown, can change so rapidly that one's plans have to be flexible.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to complete his consultations with interested bodies on the Melville Report.

My right hon. Friend is awaiting the views of the General Teaching Council on the recommendations relating to staff in junior occupational centres.

Is the Minister aware that that is a disappointing reply? Does he realise that thousands of Scottish children are being deprived of educational opportunities available to their counterparts in England and Wales? Since the Secretary of State has been sitting on this report for over nine months, is it not time that he was delivering the goods?

The hon. Gentleman must realise that this is an important and valuable report. We have to have the fullest consultation. We are now in the final stage and have asked the General Teaching Council to give us its views as quickly as possible. We should welcome the Private Member's Bill brought forward by the hon. Member for Midlothian (Mr. Eadie), which will take up two of the recommendations of the report and will be most valuable.

May I press the Minister on this? Is he aware that, as I understand it, the GTC received this report, asking for comments, only a fortnight ago? Has there not been some delay? Is he aware that there is great anxiety in the training colleges because there has been no course for teacher training since 1969 and there are no courses now because people are waiting for this report? Will he give us the Government's thinking about existing staff, because there is a great deal of worry and anxiety among them as to what their status will be when the report is accepted?

Naturally, I should like to alleviate any worries in the minds of the staff as soon as possible, but it would be wrong to give piecemeal recommendations when early in the new year we hope to give a complete factual statement of our views on this valuable report. I know that in the last year or so the courses at Jordanhill have been discontinued, but that is an interim measure. At present the Central Council for Education and Training in Social Work and the Training Council for Teachers of the Mentally Handicapped are discussing what courses can be introduced and we hope that some may start next session.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will publish in an early issue of the Scottish Economic Bulletin the number of Scottish registered companies which are engaged in supplying materials to the licensees operating on the United Kingdom sector of the Continental Shelf.

Offshore operators use a very wide range of materials, many supplied through subcontractors, and it would be impracticable to try to identify all the many Scottish firms concerned.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the opposite side of the picture? How many jobs have been lost in Scotland because there is no United Kingdom design for a concrete production platform? Will he, with his right hon. Friend, also consider the number of jobs lost in Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom because we are not building any semi-submersible drilling rigs, as are other countries?

British firms have put in an application for the construction of concrete platforms, which is under inquiry in accordance with our planning procedures. I am sure the hon. Gentleman and the House will agree that the time and energy of officials are better spent in helping firms to get business at present and in the future than in seeking to compile statistics which it would be impossible to complete.

On the question of generating jobs from North Sea oil, does the Secretary of State consider that this is an appropriate time for him and his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to push BP to expand refining capacity at Grangemouth and to state a definite date when that expansion, which has already been announced, will take place?

We shall keep in touch with oil companies on this matter. The hon. Gentleman knows that applications have been put in for refineries in other parts of Scotland. We also know of other projects for refineries for which planning application has not yet been put in. The whole picture has to be looked at.

As the Government are getting from the oil companies quarterly returns of the purchase of supplies of equipment, why cannot these figures be published, and why cannot we know what proportion of that work is coming to Scotland, as many of us believe that the proportion is still far too low?

I am ready to consider publication of any figures of that kind, subject to questions of commercial confidence. On the other hand, I cannot try to provide complete statistics in a situation where it is impossible to do so.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the total amount of rent arrears owed by local authority tenants in Scotland, to the nearest available date; and what was the amount at the same date in 1972, 1971 and 1970.

This information is not kept centrally.

Do I take it that the Scottish Office has stopped collecting information on local authority housing? Is the Minister aware that over the last few Scottish Question Times my Questions have been designed to monitor the effects of the Housing Finance Act on local authority housing in Scotland? Is he further aware that those Questions reveal that new houses are almost as short as are Tories on a Scottish Questions day, that housing queues are longer than they have been since the mid-1950s and that the debt owed in rent arrears by Scottish local authority tenants is at its highest level in the history of local authority housing in Scotland? Is the right hon. Gentleman proud of his record? Does he expect to improve on it in 1974, or does he forecast that in that year it will get worse?

The record referred to by the hon. Gentleman is not a record at all; it is a piece of splendid private enterprise invention by him. The effects of the Housing Finance Act are well seen throughout the country in the vast number of rent rebates that are being paid. It is disturbing that in recent years there has been an increase in the number of families with rent arrears. It is imporant that we should try to find out the precise reason for this. That reason cannot be the absence of rent rebate schemes. We have better and more generous rent rebate schemes than ever before, with more Government finance to help them, and that is the result of the 1972 Housing Finance Act, which it is about time the hon. Gentleman learned to appreciate.

Is the Minister aware that despite the splendid assistance offered by rent rebate schemes, particularly to many poor families in Glasgow, and other towns, there is an enormous increase in the number of evictions and abscondences for non-payment of rent? Would it not help families in receipt of supplementary benefits to get a rent allowance in that form if the allowance were paid direct? This would remove a lot of hardship and would be much appreciated by the many families involved.

I agree with my hon. Friend's constructive suggestion. We are conducting conversations with our colleagues to see whether it is possible to arrange that. One presumes that the families who find it difficult to pay rent are either people who should be getting rent rebates and are not getting them —and that is something to which local authorities and housing departments must give attention—or, alternatively, people with large incomes who are perfectly able to pay their rent but are not doing so.

Is not that a totally unsatisfactory answer? Will the Minister assure the House that he will discuss with local authorities the weekly payment of rents and discuss with electricity boards the payment of electricity accounts on a monthly basis? Would not these two schemes go a long way towards preventing families having to leave their homes, of which there were 3,000 in Glasgow last year?

I have agreed that it is a worrying situation. What I am disputing is that it has anything directly to do with the Housing Finance Act. It is because I agree that it is a worrying situation that I have commissioned a study of the procedure for dealing with rent arrears. The results of the study, which is being undertaken by the local government operational research unit, are expected to be available in spring next year. I also intend shortly to issue advice to local authorities on measures, including improved methods of rent collection, that they can take to reduce the possibility of tenants incurring arrears. I shall be in no way backward in doing everything I can to solve this problem.

Does not the Minister agree that there is a direct relationship between the increasing number of families who are in arrears with rent and the implementation of the Housing Finance Act—as he has conceded that it is probably the families most in need of rent rebate who are paying artificially high rents?

I am sorry to have to disagree with the hon. Lady on her first supplementary question. If families find they cannot pay their rent they are entitled to rent rebate. If people in the hon. Lady's constituency are not getting rent rebate, she can no doubt explain to them how to get it. For instance, taking a married couple with two children, if the rent is £3 a week the man has to earn over £36·50 a week before going out of rebate. No one can say that that is a low income.

Is it not extraordinary that the Minister has no record of rent arrears and yet is so worried that he has commissioned a special study of the matter? Did he make no effort to find the information in reply to the Question? Unless he has the information he will not be able to find a cure.

The hon. Gentleman can get information from his own local authority if he wishes to do so, but it would mean quite a lot of work for the local authority to collect it. The position is clear. We want to do all we can to alleviate the situation. We are doing all we can and will continue to do so. We must try to identify the correct cause and not concentrate on the imaginary causes which hon. Gentlemen opposite, who have always opposed it, would like to assign to the Housing Finance Act.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement about the financial assistance he intends to give for the building of the Exit Youth Club in Glenrothes, Fife.

Since the education authority has now told my right hon. Friend that it and the district council have agreed to offer grants of £18,000 and £12,000 respectively, he will be writing shortly to the authority offering the maximum grant of £25,000.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his answer to my letter on this subject a few weeks ago. Will he give an assurance that, contrary to what he indicated in his letter, the project will go ahead quickly within the next month?

Yes, I can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. The letter will confirm that the project can proceed next month.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has had against public expenditure cuts in Scotland; and what replies he has sent.

None, Sir.

Is it not a fact that every area in Scotland is suffering severe cuts in terms of expenditure on hospital development and on the development of services for the elderly, following his circular advising authorities not to put any further work out to contract? Is the Minister aware that many people in Scotland feel that things will be held back even more? Will he give an assurance that local authorities will lift the embargo on new contracts from 1st January?

The answer to the first part of the question is "No"; this is not a question of severe cuts in different parts of Scotland. Because of the overheating of the construction industry, it was arranged that there should be a re-phasing in the last quarter of this year. Projects will go forward in the New Year under arrangements to be made.

Will the right hon. Gentleman, without anticipating the Government's White Paper on public expenditure, pay regard to the fact that the philosophy of public expenditure has been related to a high and sustained growth rate? Will he bear in mind the worry of many people that high and sustained public expenditure may be endangered if we move into a zero or negative growth situation? What, in the circumstances, would be the right hon. Gentleman's attitude in the Cabinet?

That would be breaching the confidentiality of Cabinet proceedings—and I cannot answer a question concerning a hypothetical situation, although it is an interesting one. We recognised that in many areas the construction industry was not able to meet the dates which were in view, and to make sure that tenders were reasonable it was necessary to carry out a rephasing.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the average net rent, after rebate, paid by Edinburgh Corporation tenants in the years to 30th September 1972 and 1973 respectively; what is the total rent rebate paid out in the same years; and what is the total rent allowance paid out in the first nine months of the rent allowance scheme.

The average weekly rebated rent was £1·34 at November 1972 and £1·12 at November 1973, the nearest dates for which figures are available. Rebates under the corporation's rebate scheme in the year to November 1972 totalled £778,000, paid wholly from the rates. Rebates under the 1972 Housing Act scheme in the year to November 1973 amounted to £2,213,000, of which over 85 per cent. was met by Exchequer subsidy. Rent allowances amounting to nearly £100,000 were paid in the period January to November 1973.

May I congratulate the Government—and I am sure the whole House will join me—on introducing the fairest piece of legislation Scotland has seen for many years, although the Labour Party is pledged to abolish it? Will the Minister do even more to publicise the benefits of this Act, particularly where the facts are still being distorted by Labour-controlled local authorities?

I am grateful for what my hon. Friend said. I am not sure that he is correct in saying that the Labour Party is pledged to abolish the Act, because I am almost certain that in England our system of housing finance has already been adopted as part of Labour Party policy. My hon. Friend has done a great service by drawing to the House's attention the real facts about the Act. I hope that the figures will be looked at carefully by every Labour Member. They will then realise that it is a very fair piece of legislation.

Since the Housing Finance Act has failed in its objective of getting in more money, from the Government's point of view, will the Minister take steps to repeal the Act?

I do not understand the hon. Gentleman's question. As I understand the situation, the Housing Finance Act is giving to local authorities a greater level of subsidy than ever before—notably to Glasgow, the hon. Gentleman's own local authority. I am happy to rest on that achievement as the Government's contribution.

Is my hon. Friend aware that these figures show yet again the malicious nonsense talked by the Labour Party in its sustained propaganda campaign against this legislation? Will he say how many tenants in Clydebank will be paying less in rent as a result of the Act than they were before?

I cannot answer that question without notice, but it may interest my hon. Friend to know that in Edinburgh 26,000 tenants are now receiving rent rebates, against the 13,190 tenants who received rebates before the Act came into operation. My hon. Friend is correct to point out that the Labour Party's view of this Act has been seen to be erroneous and out of date. The only thing that amazes me is my hon. Friend's surprise that the Labour Party behaves in that way.

Will the hon. Gentleman say how much rent has been levied in Edinburgh in the year 1972–73, compared with 1971–72?

If the hon. Gentleman tables a Question on that subject I shall be glad to answer it. The important thing for people who pay rent is to know whether or not they are having to pay more money. In Edinburgh alone at least 2,000 tenants are now paying less in rent.

How can the Government be proud of the fact that they have increased rents to such a level that it has led so many people to apply for rent rebates and allowances? Does this not reflect the appallingly low wage levels in Scotland?

The hon. Gentleman cannot have it both ways. He cannot at one moment say that there are not enough rebates and then, in the next breath, say that there are too many. Local authorities are now getting a much better income for keeping houses up to standard and for improving properties, and people are paying less rent. That, surely, is a good bargain.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will reconsider his decision not to allow employees of the National Health Service, such as nurses, to accept membership of the health boards in Scotland.

No, Sir.

In view of the discussions with the nurses, are not the Government paying too much attention to protocol?

No. Several nurses have already been appointed to health boards, but not nurses employed full-time by the boards. We consider that it would be inappropriate for persons employed by a health board and working in a management relationship with one of its chief officers to serve as a member of the board.

Is it not absurd that there should be on the new boards nurses who are not employed in the health service and that nurses employed by the boards should be excluded? The position is even more absurd when we realise that nurses serve on regional hospital boards. Surely the Secretary of State has made an error on this occasion. Why does he not reverse it?

This applies to other employees as well, and not simply to nurses. The point is that experienced nurses will be members of the boards, and I intend to appoint some more.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will convene a conference of housing authorities in Scotland for the purpose of making a joint effort to overcome the current housing problem.

I believe that the frequent meetings which Scottish Office Ministers have with housing authorities, individually and in groups, are likely to be more fruitful than a general conference of all 234 housing authorities in Scotland.

Is the Minister's reticence due to the fact that if he got these people together at a conference they would tell him the facts of life—which are that his cut-back in building in the public sector housing is causing acute social misery for thousands of Scottish families? Is it not a fact that in the three years during which he has been in charge of Scottish housing the only things, in housing terms, that have gone up have been prices, rents, mortgages and housing queues? Does he not remember that in his address to the electors of Ayr in 1966 he declared that to overcome the housing problem Scotland required a minimum of 50,000 new houses a year? Why is he singing a different song now that he is a Minister?

I must make clear that there has been no cut-back in public housing programmes under the Conservative Government. We have deliberately avoided any such action. Local authorities have had every possible encouragement from us to build more houses. The hon. Gentleman is incorrect in saying that the only things that have gone up are those that he listed. He should also have listed the number of housing improvements, which have risen to a sensational level compared with what they were in the earlier period—64,000 approved in the first nine months of this year—and also the record numbers of private house completions under the Conservative Government. I believe that there is no local authority which has not had every possible encouragement from the Government to carry out its building programme.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the figures that he has given are highly encouraging, contrary to what might be said from the Opposition benches? However, will he confirm that the average council house tenant in Scotland pays 5 per cent. of his income in rent, whereas the average council house tenant in England pays 10 per cent. of his income? Is not it time that we in Scotland recognised that we shall never get decent housing on the cheap?

I should not like to attempt to confirm my hon. Friend's figures, though I believe them to be correct. However, my hon. Friend is quite right. People who live in council houses in Scotland want to see better quality houses in better surroundings and with better amenities. That is what we are trying to give them.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has for improving sea transport to the Western Isles.

Since I announced a policy for the improvement of shipping services in the House on 18th April last year, vehicle-carrying capacity has been greatly increased. In view of the outstanding success of the Ullapool—Stornoway link in attracting new traffic, I have just authorised capital investment for a new, larger and faster ship for this route, which will enter service for the 1975 season. Because of the healthy state of their order books, none of the Scottish shipbuilders approached could offer delivery for service before 1976 and the ship is therefore being built in Norway.

Is the Secretary of State aware that that news will give great satisfaction and pleasure in my constituency? I congratulate him on the expeditious way that he has dealt with the replacement of the "Clansman". However, will he bear in mind the essential need for a much faster vessel, along with the other improvements which are required?

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's comments. As I said, this vessel will be faster than the "Clansman".

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has had from Scottish local authorities with regard to rate support grant proposals; and what replies he has sent.

None, Sir.

I thank the Secretary of State for that very satisfactory reply. Does he agree that local authorities will need a substantial increase in rate support grant to meet their commitments because of the highly inflationary policies of the present Government? Does he agree also that it is economic stupidity to cut back on public expenditure when we have more than 25,000 unemployed in the Glasgow travel-to-work area? May we have an assurance that the £3 million worth of projects awaiting his signature at St. Andrew's House will be approved for Glasgow before the end of the year?

I disagree with the hon. Gentleman when he describes the Government's policy as inflationary. The Government have been carrying out a counter-inflation programme, I hope with the support of the Opposition in the objective of that policy. Unemployment in Scotland is being reduced rapidly. Negotiations with local authorities on rate support grant are in process at the moment.

Is my right hon. Friend——

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of that totally unsatisfactory reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

Cheat. Disgraceful.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent investigations he has made into the possibility of generating electricity in Scotland from either tidal or wind power; and if he will make a statement.

While every possible source which might contribute significantly to supplies of energy should clearly be examined, recent reviews suggest that these particular methods of electricity generation are not at present a practical proposition for public electricity supply. The Scottish electricity boards concur.

May I ask my right hon. Friend how recently these investigations have been made? The increase in price of energy generated from coal and oil is such that I believe that we should be well advised to reconsider alternative ways of generating power.

I agree that these researches have been taking place in recent years and not in recent months. The situation that we face at the moment is such that any possible new source of energy should be examined.

What assessment has been made of the further potential of hydro-electricity?

That is another matter which has been examined and which will be examined again if it seems practicable.

Will the Secretary of State confirm that both wind power and a barrage are more practicable than the Liberal proposal of a Channel dam?

I noted the speech by a Liberal Member——

The Liberal spokesman.

—which I understand could have resulted in disastrous flooding of not only this country but others as well. The difficulties which have been met in considering barrages also involve serious questions of flooding and drainage.

Mr. Gourlay.

rose——

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of my right hon. Friend's replies, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at an early opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the number of municipal houses qualifying for improvement grants, in the burghs of Buckhaven and Methil, Burntilsand, Kinghorn, and Kirkcaldy, respectively, at the latest convenient date.

Since improvement grants were introduced in 1949, grants have been approved for about 1,900, 550, 220 and 550 council houses in the four burghs, respectively.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that due to the overheating of the construction industry, which the Secretary of State admitted earlier, many local authorities will not be able to complete the improvement of their houses by June 1974 and qualify for the 75 per cent. grant? In view of that, will the hon. Gentleman reconsider the possibility of allowing houses approved for modernisation by June 1973 to rank for the 75 per cent. grant, even though they may not be completed by June 1974?

I appreciate the problem, but I am afraid that I cannot hold out any hope to the hon. Gentleman that there will be an extension of the present rules beyond June 1974. I ought to point out that the scheme was originally due to finish in June 1973. It has already been extended for a full year. The hon. Gentleman may find it useful to remember that we have made arrangements so that it is not necessary for an entire scheme to be completed by June 1974. If individual houses have been completed they will be able to be considered, and I hope that some burghs will be able to get some of these through.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, following his rejection of his White Paper on Justices of the Peace and Justices" Courts, Command Paper No. 5241, he will now publish a new White Paper outlining his latest proposals.

Our revised proposals on summary justice, which take the form of a strengthened sheriff court assuming responsibility for all summary criminal business, were announced in reply to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, South (Mr. Clark Hutchison) on 18th October—[Vol. 861, c. 306–7.] I do not consider that a further White Paper is necessary but any representations on the revised proposals will be carefully considered.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many people in Scotland feel that there is a proper place for a lay element in the lower courts and that these people welcomed the original White Paper? If, as now appears, the White Paper is totally dead, before it is given a decent burial will the hon. Gentleman accept that Parliament deserves a clear statement on the Government's proposals before they are embodied in a Bill or, failing that, at least a full debate on them?

I am well aware of the feelings on this matter. Last Friday I had a meeting with certain local authority representatives in order to hear their views. Two matters must be borne in mind. Our changed proposals were made after representations had been made to us on the White Paper. After further consideration, our reaction to those representations was to bring forward the new proposals. It is unfair to criticise the Government for reacting to opinions expressed to us. Secondly, the new proposals are fairly straightforward. They introduce a much greater degree of simplicity into the structure of summary criminal courts. The indications that we have so far show that the understanding of that structure is not running into difficulties. As legislation is needed for the new courts in 1975, I think that it is best to proceed to legislation.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that if he cares to ask hon. Members we can readily give him plenty of evidence to show that the professional magistrate—the sheriff or sheriff substitute—is not all that reliable, not always without prejudice, and not always better than the layman? Will he see to it that we have a proper opportunity to discuss what the Government intend to propose?

The hon. Gentleman is entitled to his views on what happens in the courts. There will be an opportunity for the House to discuss this when our proposals come forward. Obviously that will be the proper time to look at it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress has been made towards transferring all powers in the new towns from the development corporations to the elected representatives: and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend has no present plans to alter the arrangements whereby the Scottish new town development corporations perform their task in co-operation with local authorities having responsibilities in the area.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that that answer will cause consternation among the new towns not only in Scotland but in the whole of the United Kingdom? Does not he consider that for a new town such as East Kilbride, which has been established for 27 years and which now has a population of 75,000, the time has arrived for very serious consideration whether the functions of that town should be carried out in exactly the same way as those of other towns, not only in Scotland but in the whole of the United Kingdom?

I appreciate the views which the hon. Gentleman has expressed. At present, Scottish legislation empowers my right hon. Friend to wind up a development corporation and transfer all or part of its undertaking to the local authority for the area. Although East Kilbride will reach its target population in about two years' time, its development corporation has a continuing responsibility for the recently designated new town at Stonehouse. My right hon. Friend has not decided whether to pursue the normal course laid down by the legislation or seek an alternative course which would require further legislation. It is not intended to make a decision on this matter in the immediate future.

May I ask my hon. Friend not to be misled by the Question on the Order Paper? As a former member of East Kilbride and Stonehouse Development Corporation, I can testify to its success and efficiency. The present organisation is well within the bounds——

Order. The hon. Gentleman must not testify; he should ask a question.

I welcome what my hon. Friend has said about East Kilbride Development Corporation. I have often represented how much I admire the work that it does. There have been representations from East Kilbride Town Council and others to the effect that the development corporation's assets should be transferred to them when the new town reaches its target population. As I have said, the time is not yet right for a decision to be made about this, but I have promised that I will take full account of the views expressed.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an early opportunity of raising the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has received the latest emigration figures; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, sir. Net emigration from Scotland in the year to June 1973 is estimated at 10,700. This compares with 27,600 for the preceding year and is the lowest figure for any year since the war.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that those figures will give the greatest satisfaction in Scotland and elsewhere, although we all look forward to the day when there will be a net gain and not a net loss each year? Will he confirm that these are not simply the best figures since the war but the best figures for two generations? Further, will my right hon. Friend confirm that these figures reflect a growing confidence in the expanding Scottish economy? Just to round matters off, will he tell the House why hon. Members of the Opposition looked so unhappy a moment ago at hearing this good news?

I agree with my hon. Friend that this is a significant indicator of successful policies having been carried out in Scotland. The figures compare with emigration figures of 43,000 in the years 1966 and 1967. As my hon. Friend said, these are also the best figures for a very long time.

Does the Secretary of State appreciate that the last thing that I want to do is to spoil the effect of this excellent Question? I have no doubt that he has taken a great deal of trouble. However, may I ask him not to be complacent? It is amazing that Scotland has any emigration, considering that it is now in the centre of the Texas of Europe. Have these figures been broken down? What is the situation regarding the Highlands and Islands?

I cannot break them down into figures for different parts of Scotland, but net emigration overseas is estimated at 6,700, whereas the rest of the figure relates to the United Kingdom.

We very much welcome these figures, but I should like to take up the point made by the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Grimond). Is not the situation very patchy? Are not the figures, in any case, likely to deteriorate if the unemployment situation deteriorates, as it inevitably will over the next few months? Is not the worrying factor about the Scottish situation generally that increased employment opportunities are very patchy and, in particular, are not likely to affect the endemic problem of high unemployment in West-Central Scotland? Will the Secretary of State turn his attention to getting the maximum of industrial opportunities from North Sea oil, not just for Scotland generally but particularly for West-Central Scotland?

I am certainly not complacent about these figures. I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman has introduced a sour note into what is very good news. He mentioned employment vacancies. That is another significant indicator, because vacancies are greater in Scotland than they have been since records have been kept. The unemployment situation in West-Central Scotland has improved over the past year to a greater extent than that of Scotland as a whole.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make it his policy to exempt from cuts in expenditure programmes all essential local authority work on housing, hospitals, factories, etc.

Housing is exempted from the current rephasing of public building work. I shall, as always, seek to ensure that restraints on other building are so applied that essential work is allowed to go on.

I am very grateful for that reply. We have been scared of what has happened in the past being repeated in the near future, namely, that luxury building proceeds, using up scarce raw materials and labour in certain industries. We are grateful to note that that is unlikely to happen next year.

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman appreciates the point I have made.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what facilities are presently provided in Lanarkshire for the separate assessment, treatment and rehabilitation of young chronic sick patients; and what progress in Lanarkshire has been made in terms of Section 17 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970 for the effective separation of younger from older hospital patients.

Assessment is carried out mainly in the clinical departments of general hospitals, and there are day places in Coathill and a few beds in Broomhill and Lanfine Hospitals for assessment and rehabilitation. Beds for continuing care are available at Broomhill and Lanfine. In the years 1970, 1971 and 1972 there were respectively 100, 97 and 88 younger chronically sick patients who, in terms of the Act, were inappropriately placed in hospital.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that my information, coming from Lanarkshire, is that such facilities as are supposed to exist can scarcely be found? In view of the great concern about this problem, will the hon. Gentleman be ready to meet me and perhaps one other, to discuss what may be done in Lanarkshire?

I am always willing to meet the hon. Gentleman on any topics concerning his constituency. The original assessment centre at Cowglen should begin construction next year at a cost of £250,000, and an extension at the Wester Moffat Hospital at Airdrie is under way at present.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether his Department will be separately represented at the forthcoming conference on matters connected with the sea and fishing.

The British delegation will take account of all British interests at the conference, including Scottish fisheries as well as those of the rest of the United Kingdom.

Is the Minister aware that Scotland should be separately represented, because this conference will discuss inshore fishing, which is of far greater importance to the Scottish economy than to the British economy generally? Should not the Scottish Office be separately represented, at least in regard to the question of limits?

I think the right hon. Gentleman realises that we belong to the United Kingdom, and have a United Kingdom Government. I, personally, am wholly confident that Scottish interests will be properly represented, as they have been in the past. Even as recently as yesterday I had the honour, as a Scottish Minister, to open an international fishing conference to which the United Kingdom Government were hosts. I think that this symbolises the part that we in Scotland play in formulating United Kingdom fisheries policies.

Does my hon. Friend agree that Scotland has a particular interest in salmon fishing?

I absolutely agree that, as regards not only salmon fishing but the inshore fishing industry, this conference is of particular interest to Scotland.

Will the Minister bear in mind that hon. Members on the Opposition benches are concerned with results rather than status? In view of the fact that the expertise on Scottish fisheries must come from Scotland, will he reconsider the reply that he has given to the right hon. Gentleman?

I ask the hon. and learned Gentleman to consider that where it has been appropriate—for example, in negotiations with the Faroese and with the Danish Government about the Faroes question—Scottish departments played a very active part, as we have done in the past. I have no doubt that in this case we shall play an equally active part, if not a more active one.