asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he is satisfied that the regulations designed to prevent the overloading of heavy goods vehicles are being observed.

I am pleased to inform the hon. Gentleman that roadside spot checks of heavy goods vehicles by the RUC and the Northern Ireland Department of the Environment indicate that a substantial majority of vehicles comply with the loading limits. However, in the 12 months ending April 1976, 343 overloadings were detected and 59 prosecutions initiated.

Is the Minister aware that that is a substantial number? The majority of law-abiding companies that originally set out loyally to obey and comply with the regulations are now meeting with unfair competition from a tiny minority of unscrupulous companies that in some cases are using lorries designed to carry loads of 13½ tons to carry loads of 22 tons. Will the Minister ensure that there is overall and even enforcement of the regulations?

I appreciate the concern that the hon. Gentleman expresses. If he gives the Department the names and addresses of those concerned, we shall make further inquiries.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he intends to issue the consultative document on the reorganisation of secondary schools in Northern Ireland.

The consultative document was published on Tuesday 27th July and copies have been placed in the Library.

Will my hon. Friend indicate the measure of agreement that exists on comprehensive education in Northern Ireland among the bodies associated with the provision of education? Will he indicate what the timetable for implementation may be, arising from this document?

The object of the consultative document is to promote a discussion in the Province, and the measure of agreement will emerge from that. I am allowing approximately six months for a public debate, but it will not be cut firmly at that time if the debate is still continuing. If there is to be a White Paper, it will be in the spring of 1977. Legislation, if required, will not be until the 1977–78 Session.

Is the hon. Gentleman in a position to give a costing to the scheme as envisaged in his consultative document, or a scheme based on it? Will he assure the House that he will not replace the already adequate education system with an untried and costly system that will bear heavily on a Province that will be seriously affected by financial restriction?

On the hon. Gentleman's second point, I gave him that assurance on the last occasion we had Northern Ireland parliamentary Questions. An outline costing for the scheme is contained in the consultative document, and a copy is being sent to the hon. Gentleman.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that one of the most agreeable and constant features of educational life in Northern Ireland is the equitable way in which the schools have been treated? Schools of all denominations have been treated with generosity and on an equitable basis. This has hapened under all Governments in Northern Ireland and here. Will the Minister give an assurance that this state of affairs will be fostered and permeated?

I am pleased to be able to give my hon. Friend that assurance.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the consultative document uses the expressions "Roman Catholic sector" and "non-Roman Catholic sector"? Does he realise that "non-Roman Catholic sector" is an offensive way in which to describe the schools provided for the majority of Ulster people, when it is just as easy to refer to the controlled schools and the Protestant voluntary schools? Will he issue a correction to remove this offending description?

It was not intended to be offensive, and I do not regard it as offensive. I shall not alter the document as the hon. Gentleman suggests.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the public debate to which he has referred has already begun? On the one hand, many teachers have been expressing their dislike of the 11-plus examination, but, on the other, the Association of Governing Bodies of Voluntary Schools has expressed the opinion that the abolition of the 11-plus, which so many teachers and others want, need not lead to the abolition of the 58 voluntary grammar schools, Catholic, Protestant and non-denominational, that have served Ulster so well?

As is stated in the consultative document, it is my desire to bring the voluntary schools into the reorganised system of secondary educa- tion by consent. I shall do my best to achieve that.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what arrears of rent are outstanding for publicly owned housing; and what steps are being taken to recover the arrears.

It is estimated that Housing Executive tenants owe £3·4 million for rent, £1·7 million for rates and £0·1 million for heating charges. Arrears are being recovered by allocations of social security benefits, under which some 2,170 tenants are having deductions made, and a further 500 cases per week are now being referred to the Housing Executive for possible allocation of benefits.

Will my hon. Friend inform the House whether any of these arrears are due to the rent strikes, for instance, by the minority community, or do the arrears stretch across both communities?

The Department does not now divide the rent arrears between those who were involved in the rent strike and other defaulters. The former's arrears have been reduced to such an amount that it is hardly worth trying to divide them up. On the other hand, a new feature in Northern Ireland is that rent arrears are divided between the two communities.

Will the Minister inform us how many deductions are being made from wages? Will he also inform us how many people owing between £400 and £500 in arrears have now left the area, and what steps are being taken to recover these outstanding debts?

We are going to recover the outstanding amounts. There will be no amnesty. There are 120 public employees having deductions made from their salaries and 1,350 tenants have been taken before the enforcement of judgments office. We intend collecting these arrears.

Is the Minister aware of the problems being encountered by private landlords in areas where normal policing cannot be carried out? What advice has been given to private landlords who are suffering as much as people in the public sector?

This matter is dealt with in the Porter Report, on which I have made a statement. I hope that legislation will be brought before the House in due course. This is not a new point. Policing in certain areas is not yet in full force. This situation has been going on for some time. Private landlords can take these individuals to court.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what recent representations he has received from and what meeting he has arranged with educational organisations about the ending of sectarian segregation in education.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will hold consultations with a view to extending the provision of education on a non-denominational basis in Northern Ireland.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he proposes to convene a conference of interested parties to identify whether and by what means shared schools could be made available in Northern Ireland to those parents who wish this for their children.

It is not the intention of the Government to deprive parents of the right to have their children educated in accordance with their religious choice. A proposal for shared school governing bodies was made by Mr. Basil McIvor, Minister for Education in the power-sharing Executive, in May 1974. Consultation on this proposal subsequently did not reveal sufficient support to warrant legislation. I have noted a recent renewal of interest in similar proposals to these put forward by Mr. McIvor and I am at present reviewing how these might be further considered.

Does the Minister stick to the view that he firmly expressed about a year ago, that comprehensive reorganisation should be undertaken in Northern Ireland, and that this upheaval should take place without any move towards practical desegregation at local level where it is desired and sought by local parents? Is he prepared to take a fairly flexible view, or to contemplate with equanimity a major educational upheaval on the issue of selection but with no change in the direction of desegregation, where it is sought?

The two issues of comprehensive or secondary reorganisation and desegregation are entirely separate. The consultative document was issued on the basis that the majority of Catholic parents will want to send their children to Catholic schools and the majority of non-Catholic parents will want to send their children to non-Catholic schools. I have not sought to depart from the existing arrangement in that respect.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, while recognising that religious tuition should be freely available in Northern Ireland, many of us believe that educational apartheid can lead to mistrust and even conflict, and that that may be one of the roots of the problem? Will he seriously examine any possibility of improving the situation by bringing children closer together?

Where there is a desire for children of both sects to go to the same school, there is provision in existing arrangements whereby that can be achieved. There would have to be general agreement across the sectarian divide for non-sectarian proposals to make a contribution to the future of Northern Ireland.

May I remind the hon. Gentleman that the idea of experiments, at any rate, in shared schooling was not only accepted by Mr. Faulkner's Executive in 1974 but has since been welcomed by the General Synod of the Church of Ireland, and by many of the Catholic laity. I do not know about the church hierarchy. When does he think that it may be possible to convene the conference that the Secretary of State has undertaken to hold?

I have not yet decided that the conference is the appropriate way to go ahead. That is a suggestion, amongst many others, that I am considering.

I am afraid that my consultations about 18 months ago did not reveal undiluted enthusiasm for shared schooling. However, have noticed renewed interest. I shall see what I can do to assess whether there is a basis for moving forward.

Will the Minister ensure that he is not deterred in any such negotiations by the hostility of the ever, I have noticed renewed interest. I Roman Catholic hierarchy? I speak as a Roman Catholic.

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's contribution. I shall consider all contributions and make my judgment on the basis of them as I see them.

Is the Minister aware that before much progress can be made in this direction a number of entrenched positions will have to be abandoned, not least that of the Roman Catholic Church, which insists that the children of mixed marriages must be brought up as Roman Catholics?

That last point lies outside the scope of the original Question.

Ministers in the Northern Ireland Office have been ready to condemn the wide gap between the two communities in Northern Ireland and have repeated that condemnation as often as they can. Surely, by refusing to get rid of segregation in education, they are abdicating their responsibility in this matter.

The hon. Gentleman has got it all wrong. What we are seeking to do in Northern Ireland is no more than appertains in the rest of the United Kingdom. If there is a desire for mixing between people of various religious persuasions, there are a number of school-organised out-of-school activities in which a great deal of mixing takes place.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he has made any further progress in reconciling conflicting views amongst political leaders in Northern Ireland regarding progress towards an elected parliament or assembly for the Province.

As I told the House on 2nd July, I am always ready to entertain constructive and responsible ideas from those in Northern Ireland who are prepared to work together for Northern Ireland. I have played no part in the recent conversations between the SDLP and OUP, which I understand have been adjourned.

I am ready to play a part at an appropriate time.

Does the Secretary of State think that he has an energetic rôle to play here, or is he settling down for a long period of direct rule? If the latter, the question of Ulster representation here cannot be shelved indefinitely.

It is not a matter of being energetic. A fool can be energetic, and it is easy to be foolish in Northern Ireland, as the hon. Gentleman would find if he went there. Therefore, it is a matter not of being energetic but of judging the situation.

On the question of seats, I received a news release from the United Ulster Unionist Party on the talks. I read in it that I am to get a report. I do not think that I have yet received the report. The news release referred to being fully represented in all the democratic fora, and said that agreement had been reached. Immediately that news release was issued, the spokesman for the SDLP, Mr. John Hume, made it clear that the SDLP was not in favour of any extra representation in this House. So runs the problem that we have to face.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that my right hon. and hon. Friends and I are gratified by the interest, as shown on the Order Paper, taken by hon. Members representing constituencies in Great Britain in the affairs of Northern Ireland and that we regard that as a welcome sign of the acceptance of the status of Northern Ireland as an integral part of the United Kingdom? Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether Northern Ireland is the only part of the United Kingdom in which there are conflicting views on the form and desirability of devolution?

I am glad that other right hon. and hon. Members are showing a great interests in the wider issues in Northern Ireland. I think that is right.

When in Northern Ireland I read that there are other problems of devolution in other parts of the United Kingdom.

I wonder whether, in the absence of any immediate facilities for a Northern Ireland Assembly, my right lion Friend has any comment to make on the scrutiny by this Parliament of subordinate legislation applying to Northern Ireland? Does he not feel that with the likelihood of direct rule continuing, there ought to be a greater opportunity for elected representatives here to have that necessary degree of scrutiny?

There is a problem here. I do not propose to go into the question of the technical nature of the orders. We have announced that we are prepared to make some changes, arising from our debates on Northern Ireland.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of our agreement that there is little point in trying to hustle political progress towards another form of devolved government in Northern Ireland? In the meantime what steps is he taking to make direct rule less bureaucratic and more accessible to local opinion?

I understand the problem about direct rule, but, as was the case with the previous Administration, Ministers who work with me in the Northern Ireland Office spend a great deal of time in all parts of Northern Ireland. I do not think there are any Ministers in any other Department who are as accessible to the people of an area as Northern Ireland Ministers are.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland at what point in their sentences prisoners serving life imprisonment are deemed to have served half their term of imprisonment.

A sentence of life imprisonment is an indeterminate sentence; one half of the term of imprisonment is therefore also indeterminate.

Absolutely impeccable logic.

I am most grateful to the Minister for setting me that insoluble conundrum. Does he agree that the indeterminacy of the sentence and, therefore, by definition, of the half sentence, leaves open the question when a prisoner serving a life sentence would, or should, or can, be released? Will the Minister deal with this matter at greater length? Can he tell the House whether or not the half-sentence principle is being applied to people convicted in Northern Ireland and subsequently transferred to mainland prisons?

The cases of life-sentenced prisoners are reviewed periodically in consultation with the trial judge and the Lord Chief Justice. Since 1968 five life-sentenced prisoners have been released—two after seven years, two after eight years and one after 16 years. The half sentence, which my right hon. Friend announced on 16th February 1976, applies only to people in gaol in Northern Ireland. If they are transferred to Great Britain I assume that they come under the parôle system of Great Britain.

Can the Minister say what the average length of a life sentence in Northern Ireland is?

Obviously I cannot say what the average length of a life sentence is, but what I have just said is that since 1968 only five life sentence prisoners have been released. We now have 132 prisoners serving life sentences and 28 young persons detained at the Secretary of State's pleasure. This is another of those conundrums referred to my my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Mr. Litterick).

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what proposals he has for reforming the law concerning homosexuality in Northern Ireland.

As I told the House on 2nd July I have invited views, including those of the Standing Advisory Commission on Human Rights, on the question of amending the law relating to homosexuality in Northern Ireland.

I am grateful for that reply, but does the Secretary of State accept that there is a gross disparity between the treatment of homosexuals in Northern Ireland and those in the rest of Great Britain? For the time being, will he try to make the life of homosexuals in Northern Ireland no more uncomfortable than it is in the rest of the country?

I understand the disparity and I think that I ought to listen to the views of the people in Northern Ireland and of the public representatives. I cannot say that this is the most important problem in their minds, but it exists. The last part of the hon. Gentleman's question is a matter for the Chief Constable and the Director of Public Prosecutions. I maintain a distance because I in no sense ought to interfere in those matters.

What plans does the Secretary of State have to test ordinary public opinion in Northern Ireland on this and other social issues when a change in Northern Ireland legislation is contemplated?

I have not decided on any particular method of doing that. I think there are means of finding out, but at the end of the day it will be a matter for this Parliament, as is the case with the situation in any other part of the United Kingdom.

Is it not possible that in the case of homosexuality Great Britain could take a lead from the legislation that exists in Northern Ireland?

If the hon. Gentleman is asking me, the answer is "No". I think that in this respect we are right and Northern Ireland is wrong.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement with regard to the progress of the Belfast transportation review.

The consultants' study of the Belfast Transportation Review is approaching completion. Six alternative strategies were reviewed in an interim report. The Northern Ireland Department of the Environment, in consultation with the Belfast City Council, chose three for further study. The consultants' draft final report has been received by the Department and preparations are at present being made for publication of the final report in the near future.

Is the Minister aware that in the absence of specific proposals emerging from this review on transportation there are many areas, lying vacant and neglected, particularly in the city of Belfast, which could be used for the provision of either homes or small and light industry? Is he also aware of a recent Press report to the effect that the transportation studies have cost the Government thousands and thousands of pounds and can he confirm or deny that the figures which have been quoted are correct?

I think the newspaper that my hon. Friend has referred to is the Andersonstown News. The report did not say "thousands" of pounds; it said "millions". In fact, £280,000 has been spent so far. It is another of those journals which tend slightly to exaggerate. None of the three strategies provides for an elevated urban motorway of the same standard as that contained in the original design. Two of the three strategies do include a proposed dual carriageway along the line of phase 1, linking the M1 and M2 to channel heavy traffic from the docks away from residential areas and the city centre.

Will the Minister reconsider the advisability of proceeding with the motor road link at Whitehouse, to which I have already referred in a previous debate. Will he bear in mind that this is likely to cost over £3 million? Would that money not be better spent in other directions? For example, it could be used to avoid doing real damage to the economy of Northern Ireland if it were available for that purpose?

I wish somebody had taken note of the hon. Gentleman's views some time ago, because I think that money spent on roads in Northern Ireland would have been much better spent elsewhere, anyway. I shall certainly take note of the point that the hon. Gentleman has made.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what measures he is taking to prevent the display of posters and advertising material where they deface traffic and safety signs.

Posters fixed to traffic signs are taken down by staff of the Northern Ireland Department of the Environment as soon as they can. The penalty for displaying an advertisement in contravention of current Northern Ireland regulations is a fine up to £100. Anyone who wilfully interferes with or damages a traffic sign is liable to a fine of £50 or imprisonment for three months, or both.

In view of the obvious inconvenience to the public and, more important, the implications of road safety, can my hon. Friend explain why those responsible for this fly-posting have not already been prosecuted?

In the first instance it is a matter for the police, but I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving me this opportunity to make an appeal to the people concerned to end this irresponsible practice, which is very dangerous. If this appeal fails I shall consult my right hon. Friend and the police to see that a more effective enforcement of the law is brought about.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that one of the worst offenders in this respect is something called "Action Group"? It is an extraordinary thing that those who profess to be interested in the life and well-being of their fellow-citizens should deliberately endanger it by defacing necessary signs.

I entirely agree with the right hon. Gentleman.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement on the state of law and order.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement about the security situation.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement about the security situation in the Province.

Violence has continued throughout July and there have been a number of recent terrorist incidents, some of them particularly brutal, in which innocent civilians from all parts of the community have been killed or seriously injured. Fewer civilians have been killed than in previous months, but bombing attacks have continued at a higher level and substantial damage has been caused to property in Londonderry, Belfast and rural areas, notably in Castledawson and Kilrea.

There has been an increase in shooting and bombing attacks against the security forces. Only last night three policemen were injured in a booby trap explosion in Lurgan; one of them is very seriously injured. I regret also that a member of the RUC Reserve was shot at an Army checkpoint near Bessbrook. The RUC is investigating both these incidents. Two members of the security forces have been killed by terrorists so far this month, and 33 injured.

There have in the past fortnight been various disturbances among special category and remand prisoners, obviously designed to put pressure on the prison authorities. The Government's announced decisions on the future treatment of newly-convicted prisoners will not be changed.

As I have told the House on many previous occasions, the way to fight terrorism and to maintain the rule of law is through the processes of the law. The security forces continue to meet the challenge of terrorism from whatever quarter it comes and wherever it occurs. So far this year 659 have been charged with terrorist crime, including 55 with murder, and 57 with attempted murder.

I have signed an order excluding Mr. Rory O'Brady from the United Kingdom under the Prevention of Terrorism Act 1976. He is the President of the Provisional Sinn Fein, but the exclusion is concerned with the individual and not with the organisation.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we welcome what he said about the arrest of Mr. O'Brady, and that some of us think that perhaps it is a little belated? May I ask him something about the prisons where the disturbances took place, though it is not necessarily directly connected with the disturbances? Is he aware that he will have our full support in seeing through the decision to end special category status?

I must make it clear that the decision whether Mr. O'Brady should be arrested was a matter not for me but for the police. I am grateful for what the hon. Gentleman said about prisons, because what matters in Northern Ireland is that people should realise that the men in the Maze Prison are there because they have been sentenced, not any act of mine. Those convicted after 1st March will serve their sentences in cells.

Does the Secretary of State recognise that there is growing anxiety about his plans to accelerate the granting of parôle later this year to some of the hardest men who are now in prison?

It is not "later this year"; it has already happened. I announced the plans to the House earlier this year. In this part of the United Kingdom there is a parôle scheme. People have determinate sentences, and they come out of prison. That is a fact of life. I do not deny the problem. What proportion return to violence is another matter.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his comments will be welcomed on the Government side of the House and more widely? Is he not entitled to be rather resentful about the recent remarks by an Opposition Member that there have been tea parties with men of violence? Would it not be better for the moderate profile usually exhibited on the Government side of the House to be maintained outside it?

I did not notice the comment about tea parties. I have said before that the exchanges with Sinn Fein have not been anything like as frequent as many people appear to think. I am sure that there was a great advantage in them a year or more ago. I am not prepared to go into details, but I can say that there have been no talks since the early part of this year, and no talks are in prospect. Anyone who talks about talks is not talking about talks in which anyone associated with me is involved. Whether other people outside the Government machine are involved, on their own initiative, in talking to the Provisional Sinn Fein is not a matter for me. Only a few weeks ago I was approached by some- one who claimed to carry a personal message from David O'Connell, threatening increased violence in Ireland if there were an early political agreement between the parties. I did not seek that meeting; I did not know the man from Adam. I hope that because I received a message in that way no one will say that I am arranging talks.

Does the Secretary of State agree that there is a large mass of arms held illegally within the Province? What new initiatives does he intend to take to have a more vigorous campaign to discover and recover those arms.

This is a matter for the security forces. We talk about it a great deal. There are many illegal weapons in the Province, and finds are made from time to time. These arms are held by people across the divide. In order to do something about them we must have evidence showing where to look and where to dig. The security forces are looking the whole time, and they achieve much success.

My right hon. Friend will be aware of the massive wave of sympathy in Ireland that occurred because of the recent explosions—sympathy that did not come solely from the South or the North. It involved all the people of Ireland, who have shown their absolute repugnance for the men of violence.

On the matter of the exclusion of Mr. O'Brady, it will be for the interest of the House and people in Ireland who are bitterly opposed to violence if my right hon. Friend can tell us definitely and distinctly that the reason for that exclusion order was that there were suspicions or evidence that Mr. O'Brady was directly involved in supporting men engaged in a campaign of violence.

I realise that there is the wave of sympathy to which my hon. Friend referred. We are very grateful for the attendance of hon. Members, including an hon. Member from the Opposition Front Bench, at the funeral of a good friend of ours who was killed last week.

With regard to Mr. O'Brady, the situation is quite clear. The Act says that somebody shall be involved in violence if he

"is or has been concerned (whether in the United Kingdom or elsewhere) in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism".

That is what I have to take into account.

In the matter of the prison disturbances and special category, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that no less than Her Majesty's Official Opposition, my hon. Friends and myself are in total support of his policy on the ending of the special category; that, if anything, its termination should be accelerated; that there must be no question of his giving way; and that the more this is understood by those concerned the less avoidable damage and destruction there will be?

We are extremely grateful for those words, which we strongly support. We shall not give way on the matter of special category, political status, of men being in compounds and doing as they like, as it were, of being in "the best terrorist training school in the world", and all the other words that can be used. These men have been properly sentenced for the most serious crimes and will serve their sentences in the proper fashion.

In referring to the counterproductive talks with the Provisional Sinn Fein just now, the right hon. Gentleman said that there was a great advantage in those talks. What was that advantage, and when was it apparent to the people of Northern Ireland, in view of the very heavy casualties of the past few days and months? Why did the right hon. Gentleman not tell the House before that these talks have not occurred since the beginning of this year? He has never said that before.

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will read what I have been saying. I think that it was apparent to those living in Northern Ireland. I chose my words very carefully. I have said what I had to say on this matter. Eighteen months ago, when an organisation announced a ceasefire—not at our instigation—I should have been wrong if I had not found a means of discovering what it was about and giving in this House my words, as given by officials to that organisation. To find a means of ending the violence would have been something that everybody should have been pleased about.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman admit that he was totally deluded about the ceasefire, that it has been a dreadful mistake, and that he has increased the dangers to the population of Northern Ireland by talking to people to whom he has given political credibility?

I think that when the day comes for the facts to be known that will be seen not to be the case. I stand by what I did. I think that I was right to do it.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement about the discussion with the Department of Manpower Services regarding the requested increase in wages for statutory and voluntary playgroup personnel in Northern Ireland.

Negotiations for the introduction of a common salary structure for pre-school playgroup staff were initiated in 1974 following the rationalisation of former local authority staff in Northern Ireland. Detailed proposals were under consideration in July last year, but agreement on their implementation had not been reached when the present phase of incomes policy was introduced on 11th July 1975. I regret therefore, that there is no scope for pay increases for this group beyond the £6 a week which they received with effect from 1st July 1976.

Whilst the playgroup personnel would want me to thank the Minister and his colleagues for their courtesy in receiving the deputation, that answer will be a great source of disappointment to them. Will he undertake to remunerate this section of personnel, which is making a great contribution to child care in Northern Ireland, as soon as the present phase of the pay policy ceases?

My Department is not at all unsympathetic in this matter, but the hon. Member will appreciate that this group is subject to the current economic policy and therefore I cannot give the undertaking that he seeks.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what is the purpose and effect of the retrospective subsidy payable under Statutory Rule (N.I.) No. 34, article 11; and if he will make a statement.

Under the provisions of Article 11 of the Housing Subsidy Order (Northern Ireland) 1976 the former Northern Ireland Department of Housing, Local Government and Planning made special additional contributions to the Northern Ireland Housing Executive of £14,742,420 in March 1976. The purpose and effect of these special statutory contributions was to reduce the estimated deficit of the Executive for the financial year 1975–76. The subsidy was not retrospective but paid in respect of the year 1975–76 only, after the passage of the relevant appropriation order.

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that the necessity for a parliamentary Question such as this arises from the inadequate explanatory memorandum with which these Statutory Rules are often accompanied. Will he give attention to this, especially in view of the fact that the majority of these rules cannot be called in question in the House?

I most certainly shall do that.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on his plans to alleviate the impact of rates on the economy of Northern Ireland.

As the impact of rates on the economy of Northern Iredand is no greater than that in other parts of the United Kingdom, I have no plans to alleviate it.

May I draw the Secretary of State's attention to the fact that there has not been a general increase in rates in Northern Ireland for 20 years? As a result, there has been a sharp increase, in some cases, from £800 to £10,000 a year, with the consequent effect that 15,000 jobs are likely to be lost? Will he look at this with a view to securing a phased increase?

Revaluation merely brings the level up to date, and it should have been done a long time ago. We are only just catching up. A phased increase would mean taking money from other parts of my budget for Northern Ireland, and I cannot do that.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he is satisfied that the Department of Agriculture for Northern Ireland has sufficient brown trout and rainbow trout angling waters available in Northern Ireland to meet both local and tourist angling needs.

Yes, Sir. The census of angling on the Department's waters shows that there is adequate capacity on its rainbow trout and brown trout waters except in the Belfast area, where the demand exceeds the supply of public angling available.

I thank the Minister for his reply, but will he say what plans his Department has for the future stocking of these waters?

The Department keeps under continual review the stocking of these waters and listens to representations made by angling organisations. I am sure that if additional waters are required, that will be considered at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many teaching hospitals are located in the Mid-Ulster constituency.

None for undergraduate medical training. Eleven postgraduate training posts are filled in hospitals in the constituency.

Is the Minister aware of the shortage of medical and para-medical staff in western Northern Ireland? Will he use his good offices and influence in the Government to try to alleviate that position, particularly as it effects consultant staff, although it also applies to ordinary medical staff?

The provision of hospital services is not governed by my Department or the Government. Postgraduate medical training is governed by the medical profession—by the royal colleges in the specialties. The hon. Gentleman's question proves the necessity for the report on the development of hospital services, and that is one thing that we shall have to examine.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what is the estimated cost of building the proposed new area headquarters for the Northern Ireland Electricity Service at Londonderry.

This is, strictly, a matter for the Northern Ireland Electricity Service. However, I am prepared to tell the hon. Member that detailed plans for such a new headquarters have not yet been proposed, so it is not possible to give a firm estimate of cost.

Is the Minister aware that consumers in my constituency are happy with the present arrangement and wish to retain it? Is he aware that they believe that the proposed new headquarters would be a change for the sake of change, and that it would make services remote from the people and the movement of staff economically unreasonable?

The present arrangements are not conducive to the highest standards of administrative efficiency. There will be an opportunity to look at the matter again.

asked the Prime Minister if he intends to make a ministerial broadcast on Her Majesty's Government's economic policy.

I refer the hon. Member to the reply that I gave to the hon. Member for Norfolk, South (Mr. MacGregor) on 27th July.

Since this is clearly an appropriate time, will the Prime Minister explain, in the light of the profound understanding of economics that he displayed during his period as Chancellor, precisely how it is that the £1,000 million increase in employers' national insurance contributions releases resources for manufacturing industry?

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman's magnanimous tribute, even though it is belated by about 10 years. I accept it in the spirit in which he made it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer gave an explanation of the increases in national insurance contributions and I have nothing to add to it.

Does the Prime Minister agree that profits are rising strongly this year and the indications are that they will rise more strongly next year, and that, therefore, now is the time to invest? An integral part of our industrial strategy involves planning agreements. When shall we see the fruits of that?

The Price Code gives substantial advantages to industry, and this is certainly an opportunity that managers and employers should grasp. It is an opportunity given to them by the stability they now enjoy as a result of the social contract agreed yesterday. There is a growing acceptance of the idea of planning agreements, especially among larger companies, and the Government intend to speed up those agreements as far as they can.

Who and how many are the parties to this so-called contract, and what proportion of the electorate do they represent?

Without going into arithmetical proportions, over the last three years the social contract has enabled us to substantially reduce the incidence of strikes. In consequence, I no longer get the same complaints about the interruption of flow of materials into and out of factories, and that also helps exports. In all those and many other circumstances, the contract between the Government, the Labour Party and the trade unions has been of great value to the country, and it might be a little better if the Opposition sometimes acknowledged that.

Will the Prime Minister make it clear to the CBI that British industry has a unique contribution to make because of the advantages of having the lowest level of industrial disputes for nearly 10 years and an undervalued exchange rate, which should give it enormous investment incentives? Does he agree that there is evidence of a strong growth in world markets and that it is high time British industry began to invest more, to get production up and unemployment down?

It was indicative of the Opposition's attitude that they jeered through that recital. It is in the national interest that there should now be substantial new investment in a particularly favourable combination of circumstances. There has never been a better opportunity for export-led growth than we have at present—[Interruption.] Why do Opposition Members want to jeer at their country every day? I do not understand it. We have never disguised the difficulties that lie ahead. I hope that hon. Gentlemen will assist in getting across the combination of circumstances that now exists, which will give us an opportunity, in the next two or three years, to prepare for the 1980s—or are the Opposition frightened that we shall succeed?

In an earlier reply the Prime Minister stressed how much importance he attaches to securing the agreement of the TUC. Doubtless that applies to the proposals for public expenditure cuts. Does he attach equal importance to securing a clear decision, on a Government motion, on his public expenditure cuts, before the House rises?

An announcement will shortly be made about the business for next week—[Hon. Members: "When?"] In due course.

You are wriggling.

I would not wriggle in front of the right hon. and learned Member for Surrey, East (Sir G. Howe). He is the last one in front of whom I would wriggle. We have announced our policy, and if the Leader of the Opposition wishes to challenge it, she is entitled to do so.

I was challenging the Prime Minister to say whether he would dare to table a Government motion on public expenditure cuts and put it to the House. I take it from his reply that the answer is "No".

An announcement will be made about this matter. If anybody wishes to challenge the policy, he will be free to do so. The Opposition have the time to challenge that policy—let us see what they do with it. I understood from some remarks by the Opposition spokesman that there was some modified support for our policy. If the Opposition are satisfied with that policy why should we table a motion?

asked the Prime Minister if he will now disband the CPRS.

No, Sir.

May we be sure that the CPRS has not become something of a fifth wheel on the coach of Government?

No, Sir, I think it has not. I find the papers and submissions prepared by the CPRS extremely valuable as a commentary on the work of Departments. I think that its existence is certainly justified.

Will the Prime Minister consider the whole question of scientific advice available to the Government, since this aspect of policy appears to have been put into cold storage, if not actually destroyed? Would it not be better to spend the money involved in the CPRS on ensuring that the Government are given much better central scientific advice?

Yes, Sir. The organisation of scientific advice and its application to the work of Departments have concerned me. We reached the conclusion that it was a matter of organisation, but I do not know that there is a perfect answer. It would be better to appoint a chief scientist in each Department, geared into the machine of the Department, rather than to have one central chief scientist who would be responsible for operating over the whole area of activity. It is also intended—although agreement has not yet been reached—to recruit a scientist to the CPRS itself.

Is the Prime Minister aware that if there are to be cuts in public expenditure, many Labour Members will expect them to come at the top as well as at the bottom? It is felt that there are elements of the work of the CPRS, particularly in its rôle in reviewing the area of foreign affairs, in which one could save public expenditure by getting rid of those elements completely.

That is a very prejudiced point of view. There are only 17 members of the CPRS. We shall not save much of the £1,000 million on them. In regard to their work on the Foreign Office review, I thought, when I examined the situation in another capacity, that they could make a valuable contribution. It has become fashionable to attack particular organs of government, but I have seen nothing of the work of the CPRS that leads me to believe that it has fallen away in quality. As one who has had the opportunity of seeing that body at work, I believe that it makes a valuable contribution.

Since the nuclear industry has not developed long-term methods for dealing with nuclear waste, and since there are wide safety and security implications in the wider use of uranium and plutonium, will the Prime Minister say whether the CPRS is involved in decision-making about the future nuclear power station programme of the Government, or is this being left to the Department of Energy? Are we to have more public debate on this matter?

It is open to the CPRS to submit any paper it wishes on this nuclear aspect or on any other. Without notice, I cannot say whether it has already done so.

asked the Prime Minister if he is satisfied with the coordination between the Secretary of State for Social Services, the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection in matters concerning national food policy.

Yes, Sir.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that although the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection is busy subsidising certain foods, such as sugar and butter, there is a great deal of scientific evidence that these may be positively dangerous foods if taken in excessive quantities? Will he try to bring into closer consultation those concerned with agricultural prices and medical services in formulating future food policy?

I hope that there is already a great deal of medical consultation. On the whole, I believe that people will go on eating what they like without paying over-much attention to the medical consequences. We must of course have certain limitations. I believe that there is already cross-fertilisation between the two Departments to make sure that medical consequences are taken into account.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the cost of food distribution will be increased if the Dock Work Regulation Bill is passed and implemented? Will he seriously consider dropping the Bill, since the measure is not popular on either side of the House, in the country, or among the trade unions?

No, Sir.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that something should be done between the Departments about the common agricultural policy? Although there is a subsidy on butter and, indeed, a butter mountain, the Common Market countries are now envisaging a levy on margarine. Consequently, the consumer feels that the system is not working in his best interests. Will the Prime Minister take steps to end the CAP as early as possible?

From the very beginning the Government, and our predecessors, have had considerable views about the CAP and its impact on consumers. I have asked—and have informed the other Heads of Government on this matter—for a full review of the CAP and its impact and about the requirements that should be made before the next price review takes place in the spring. Clearly it does not work out satisfactorily for us, and one or two proposals from the Commission on these matters seem to be plain daft.

Will the Prime Minister tell the House whether he is satisfied with the co-ordination between the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Foreign Office, because between them they have made a dreadful mess of the fishing policy—or does such a policy exist at all?

I know that the hon. Member for Banff (Mr. Watt) continues to paddle his own canoe—[An HON. MEMBER: "Or his trawler."] No, he would not paddle a trawler; he would sail it. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman must be satisfied with the progress being made by my right hon. Friend on fishing policy, in ensuring proper safeguards for our fishermen in future.

I welcome the comments by my right hon. Friend about the need for a review of the CAP, but will he accept that when people have not enough money to buy butter, it is nonsense to increase the price of margarine to such an extent that it is impossible for them to buy that commodity either? Do not some of his friends in Brussels realise that if they lowered the price of dairy produce they might be astonished to see how much of that produce would be bought in the shops?

I do not think I can add to my previous rather explosive comment. As I said, it is one of the things that I regard as rather daft.

Will the Prime Minister say whether he regards the food gap as being as important as the energy gap? May we see some evidence from the Government that they wish to close the food gap?

I have, certainly since the Yom Kippur war, been very clear about the serious impact of the energy gap. The food gap is serious, but I have a feeling that there is a great deal of undeveloped potential for producing food. In some cases it is a matter of distribution.