asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the unemployment situation in Northern Ireland; and what measures he intends to take to reduce its level in the Province.

In January of this year, the latest date for which information is available, the total number of unemployed in Northern Ireland was 57,975 or 10·9 per cent. of all employees. The Government will continue to make every effort to preserve existing employment and to stimulate new job opportunities.

Is the Minister aware that, if conditions of fair competition are not secured for the heavy and light clothing industries in Northern Ireland, this will add considerably to the alarming figure of unemployed in the Province? Is he also aware that the removal of every defence establishment in Northern Ireland, with the exception of the guided missile section at Short Brothers and Harland, has added unnecessarily to the unemployment level and is nonsense in terms of military strategy?

The main long-term cause of the decline in sections on which Northern Ireland has traditionally relied for employment is the current recession, but the civil disturbances have also made it difficult to attract new industry. When Rolls-Royce was leaving the Province we wrote to 1,400 leading firms in 13 different countries. Only 33 replied and 17 expressed an interest. Only one of those firms is now interested. Those are the lengths to which we go.

The figure of over 50,000 unemployed in Northern Ireland is intolerable and unacceptable for any region of the United Kingdom. Is the line of communication between the Department and trade unions in Northern Ireland adequate to deal with this disastrous situation? Do the Government plan to set up new State-sponsored industries in Northern Ireland?

Our relations with the trade unions in Northern Ireland are as good now as they have ever been. Since 1972 the number of employed in Northern Ireland has risen from 470,487 to 494,000. That means that there are more workers in Northern Ireland than there have been for a long time. We shall do all we can to help. Sometimes, however, I feel like the fellow who tried to sell caravan holidays on the beaches of Normandy in 1944.

Since energy costs, particularly those of electricity are so high, will the hon. Gentleman provide immediate aid to industry so that it is able to compete more favourably with the rest of the United Kingdom and with the EEC and to take on more workers?

We have many pluses vis-à-vis the rest of the country and the EEC with our investment programmes in Northern Ireland. We have some minuses as well. Among the pluses is the retention of the regional employment premium. The situation has been considered in the Quigley Report, which we are examining.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what additional measures are being taken to reduce road accident casualties in Northern Ireland.

I have been gravely disturbed at the high incidence of road accident casualties in Northern Ireland. Accordingly I have taken the initiative of forming a study group, with members drawn from a wide cross-section of the community and charged with the following terms of reference:

(a) To examine the problem of the high level of road casualties in Northern Ireland;

(b) To consider the effectiveness of current and planned programmes which are designed to influence public attitudes on road safety;

(c) To look at the options for future road safety action with particular reference to publicity, education and enforcement; and

(d) To make recommendations.

Does the Minister accept that his announcement will be welcomed in Northern Ireland? Does he agree that it is essential to remove the apathy that exists towards road accidents in the Province? Will he confirm that deaths from road accidents last year exceeded those caused by terrorism? Does he agree that road accident deaths are just as intolerable and tragic? Will he draw to the attention of the study group that he intends to set up the problems of young motor cyclists?

I agree with everything that the hon. Gentleman has said. The stark truth is that in Northern Ireland in the past two years almost 3,000 people have died on the roads—more than have died as a result of the civil disturbances. The fatal accident figure is over three times higher than the figure for the rest of Great Britain, and we must do something about it.

Although my hon. Friend is right to take action about the tragic situation, has not the level of expenditure on roads in Northern Ireland over the last 10 years been substantially higher than in other parts of the United Kingdom?

That is quite true. Unfortunately, the level of road safety consciousness has not kept pace with road developments. If we get the two in step with one another, I am sure that the accident figure will drop.

What progress is being made in introducing road safety courses in schools?

Ironically enough, Northern Ireland has an excellent record in that matter. I have looked at the schemes used in the schools. There is a high incidence of education in all schools and at all levels, yet, surprisingly enough, this does not seem to have much of an impact on the level of road safety. I hope that this will be one aspect of road safety in Northern Ireland that the study group will be examining.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on his recent meeting with the Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement on his visit to Dublin on 24th January.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement about his discussions in Dublin on 24th January with the Government of the Irish Republic.

In my first visit to Dublin as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on 24th January, I had full and wide-ranging discussions with Dr. FitzGerald, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and other Irish Ministers. I paid a courtesy call on the Taoiseach.

The visit allowed me to establish a direct relationship with the Government of the Republic of Ireland and to discuss areas of mutual interest in a friendly and constructive manner.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply. However, will he reassure the House that all the rumours that we have been hearing from time to time about diplomatic relations between the British Government and the Eire Government are totally false?

I found during my visit, having met five Ministers and the Taoiseach, that they were very cooperative in all the fields for which they have ministerial responsibilities. In retrospect, I think that there has been a noticeable improvement in relations between Her Majesty's Government and that of the Republic.

Did the "direct relationship" of which the Secretary of State speaks include his expressing any views about the craven failure of the Government of the Republic to sign the European convention on terrorism? Did he say to them that within civilised States it is not acceptable to have constitutional excuses for harbouring known criminals, murderers and thugs, who ought to be returned to the North for trial, let alone to the rest of the United Kingdom?

The Republic was aware of my views before I went, because I placed them on record in this House. I reiterate that I regret that the Government of the Republic have not signed the convention. I still hope that all Council of Europe States will do so.

Did the right hon. Gentleman take the opportunity to tell the Prime Minister of the Republic that his Government were being at least hypocritical in pursuing the British Government through the courts in Europe while they were inflicting similar torture on my constituents in Port Laoise Gaol?

I do not think that I would be as blunt as that to the Taoiseach. However, the Republic knows, as the House knows, that our views concerning the Irish State case have been placed on record. The more that they are publicised at the European Court, the more they serve only the cause of the Provisional IRA. However, some years ago we recognised, as a House and Parliament, that we had been guilty of ill treatment and that 14 prisoners had been ill treated. We admitted that, and we have now paid compensation to all 14. I thought that that was a first-class example of a mature democracy. Only the Provisional IRA can gain as a result of pursuing this cause.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what was the net balance of jobs known to have been created and lost in Newry in 1976.

The information available about jobs created and jobs lost in the Newry area in 1976 relates only to firms which have received selective assistance under industries development legislation. For these firms the known job losses and creations were 311 and 258 respectively, a net loss of 53 jobs.

Does the Minister agree that it is, as far as possible, desirable to present both sides of a balance sheet, and that attraction is too readily diverted from new enterprises towards the cases where enterprises fail? Will he further agree with me that the continued development of Warrenpoint port should tilt this balance in the opposite direction before long?

I think the right hon. Gentleman will agree that the infrastructure at Warrenpoint and the new roads and the development of new factories there show our concern about areas of high unemployment, such as we have at Newry. There are other sides to the matter as well. It is remarkable that I can give those figures and then say that unemployment has fallen in Newry from 22·5 per cent. to 21·2 per cent. in the same period. We have the same problem in Newry as we have in the rest of Northern Ireland. There are more people now available for work in Newry than there were. There are more people now at work in Newry than there were as recently as, say, 1972.

Is the Minister of State aware that the official Opposition think that the efforts being made by the Government, not only in County Down but throughout a Province with a splendid record of productivity and a great recent export achievement, give the lie to talk about economic withdrawal, which can only help the terrorists?

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his remarks, which back up all the hard work that has been done by my colleagues in Northern Ireland and by the Department of Commerce, the Department of Manpower and other Departments.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what steps he intends to take to ensure full utilisation of the existing facilities at Massereene Hospital, Antrim.

Responsibility for this matter rests with the Northern Health and Social Services Board, which has it under review. I am, however, keeping in close touch with developments.

Is the Minister aware that the new wing of this hospital, which in today's values would cost about £2 million, is lying idle? Will he ensure that the 50 surgical beds involved and the modern theatre are brought fully into use? Will he give an undertaking that there will be no further rundown of any existing departments?

I am aware of the hon. Gentleman's interest in this matter. He has written to my noble Friend on the subject. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the difficulties at the hospital are currently the subject of investigation. Indeed, my noble Friend intends to reply to the hon. Gentleman's letter in the very near future.

Does the Minister agree that the future of the Massereene Hospital is closely connected with the future of the Waverley Hospital in Ballymena, and that these two hospitals depend upon each other for their services, especially theatre services? Will he tell us when the board, which has been very slow in making up its mind on the future of the hospitals in North Antrim, will be able to bring in final recommendations about them?

As far as I am aware, there is no doubt about the future of these hospitals. If the hon. Gentleman feels that there is some doubt hanging over the two hospitals, perhaps he would write to my noble Friend, when he would get a categorical reply on the future of both hospitals.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what was the total amount of investment in the commerce and industry of Northern Ireland in 1976 from public funds and from private sources.

In 1976, total investment in manufacturing industry in Northern Ireland from public and private sources was in the region of £171 million. A particularly encouraging feature was the continuing high level of investment by firms in modernisation and re-equipment which over the past two years has averaged £90 million, an increase in real terms of some 40 per cent. over the 1974 level. Further encouragement can be taken from the confidence shown during the past year by firms which have indicated their intentions to undertake new projects and expansions in the immediate future involving additional investment of over £67 million, of which nearly £21 million will be carried out by major foreign-based companies.

In addition, substantial investments were made in the service and commercial sectors, but details are not readily available.

I thank my hon. Friend for that very satisfactory answer. May I invite him to inform the House how many new jobs have resulted or will result from that very gratifying investment?

I wish that I could give my hon. Friend a more gratifying answer about new jobs as a result of this new investment. Unfortunately, however, in these days investment is to a great extent in infrastructure and job stabilisation. Although the value of the investment is well above the levels of 1972, 1973 and 1974, but slightly below that of 1975, job expectation from the investment of £67 million is about 2,250 jobs. Much of the investment is in job stabilisation.

How much of the £171 million was invested by American or European complexes, and how does the figure from private sources compare with the amount invested by Her Majesty's Government?

I think I said that £21 million has been invested by foreign companies. I cannot break that figure down into individual companies. I do not think that the hon. Gentleman would wish me to do that.

Is my hon. Friend prepared to accept the implied suggestion from the hon. Member for Belfast, South (Mr. Bradford) that we need to extend public investment—in other words, State enterprise—to help with the unemployment problem?

To be quite honest with my hon. Friend, I do not think we do too badly in that respect in Northern Ireland. I find myself in charge of a salt mine, shirt manufacturing and just about anything else he cares to mention.

What funds came from EEC sources in the year in question for industrial training grants and purposes of that nature?

I cannot say offhand to the nearest million, but Northern Ireland on a population basis, or on any other basis, has had far more than its share in this respect. Grants such as this are available and should be available for areas with high unemployment such as Northern Ireland.

The IRA, or the Provisional IRA, has declared that it intends to take Belfast and other parts of Northern Ireland apart brick by brick. Will the hon. Gentleman initiate a campaign—a counter-blitz—forthwith to rebuild industry, shops, factories and houses in Northern Irelands as an act of faith?

We have been doing that for some considerable time, not as an act of faith but as an act of Government policy. This gives the complete lie to any talk of economic or any other sort of withdrawal.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in what newspapers circulating in Northern Ireland vacancies are advertised for trainee nurses for Tyrone and Fermanagh Hospital and Tyrone County Hospital.

None. Personal applications are sufficient to meet the demand for trainee nurses.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that strenuous efforts are now being made to obtain work permits for many applicants from the southern Irish Republic as trainee nurses in the area of the Western Health and Social Services Board? In view of the calamitous unemployment situation in that area will the hon. Gentleman request his noble Friend to instruct the authorities to give the utmost priority to local applications, especially from school leavers who may want to enter the nursing service or an ancillary medical service in the Western area?

I think that the hon. Gentleman has probably asked the wrong question. There is no need to advertise for trainee nurses. If he had referred to trained nurses instead of trainee nurses, he would have received the reply that we advertise in the Sentinel, the Journal, the Strabane Weekly News, the Strabane Chronicle Tyrone Advertiser the Tyrone Constitution, the Ulster Herald and the Fermanagh Herald and Leitrim and Monaghan News, not forgetting, of course, the Impartial Reporter.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland why members of the Housing Executive and other public bodies in Northern Ireland have recently been asked to sign the Official Secrets Act.

All persons entrusted with official information in confidence have an obligation to protect that information. Whether or not such persons sign a declaration of their awareness of the requirements of the Official Secrets Acts, they are subject to their provisions.

The Housing Executive is the only public body in Northern Ireland whose members have recently been asked to sign such declarations.

Has the Minister forgotten that the Official Secrets Act is a major criminal statute designed to protect the security of the State, a measure that should not be used as a convenient suppressing device for preventing ministerial embarrassment? As information on matters relating to housing can hardly involve national security in Northern Ireland, will the hon. Gentleman please find other methods of preserving confidentiality? Will he ask the Government to stop abusing the Official Secrets Act in this way?

I think that the hon. Gentleman needs to study the affairs of Northern Ireland in a somewhat more profound way than he has done so far. Housing matters can be the subject of severe problems and difficulties in Northern Ireland in a way that they are not in the rest of the United Kingdom. I might add that every member of the Housing Executive voluntarily signed the Official Secrets Act declaration.

Does my hon. Friend agree that a great deal of resentment has been occasioned in Northern Ireland by locally elected representatives of the various district councils being asked to sign an official declaration that they will not divulge information? Does he recognise that this is understandable in respect of civil servants but not where local authority people have been elected by popular mandate? Surely their right should not be infringed. From the knowledge we have gained in the House, does my hon. Friend agree that it would not he difficult, whether or not an official declaration is signed, for the hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley) to get the information that he has so often divulged in the House?

No other bodies have been asked to sign the Official Secrets Act, although its provisions have been drawn to the attention of the chairmen of a number of bodies. As for the last part of my hon. Friend's question, I have no knowledge of leaks that might have occurred and the information from them that has found its way to the hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley).

As this practice would have the effect of muzzling the indirectly-elected members of the various bodies if it were extended, is that not a sound reason for suggesting that ultimate control of such bodies should be restored to directly-elected representatives?

That is a matter for the hon. Gentleman and his hon Friends to attempt to resolve.

Is it the fact that drawing the attention of certain chair- men of boards to the Official Secrets Act is the beginning of insistence that the members of boards will have to sign the appropriate declaration? Is it not a fact that there was no talk about the Official Secrets Act until there was a scandal in the Housing Executive and many millions of pounds—this is now under investigation by the police—went into the hands of the Provisional IRA? Is is not the case that it was only then that the Official Secrets Act was brought in?

The hon. Gentleman is factually wrong. It had nothing to do with the revelations to which he refers. As for the extension of the Act to other bodies, I said to my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, West (Mr. Fitt), that there is no intention now of extending it.

Having heard the views that have been expressed strongly from both sides of the House, is the hon. Gentleman prepared to reconsider this matter? Should not distinction be drawn between officials and elected members of local authorities?

In the peculiar circumstances of Northern Ireland, many statutory bodies deal with functions which are normally in the hands of elected bodies here and in the rest of the United Kingdom. There was no demur on the part of individual members of the Housing Executive when they were asked to sign.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many assassinations and attempted assassinations there have been in each of the last four months in the RUC O Division.

There were no assassinations or attempted assassinations in October 1976; there were three assassinations and one attempted assassination in November; there was one assassination and one attempted assassination in December; and in January 1977 there was nine attempted assassinations but no actual assassinations.

Is the Minister aware of the great concern felt by my constituents and those of my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Ulster (Mr. Dunlop) at the rising tide of assassinations and attempted assassinations by the IRA in South Londonderry on the eastern side of the Sperrins? The situation is deplorable. Will the Minister undertake to take every necessary step, including an increase in police manpower and the use of the SAS, to destroy the IRA element which is so active in that area? Will he further seek extradition warrants against such persons who flee the jurisdiction, whether to the Irish Republic, the United States of America or any other State?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that every possible step will be taken to deal with these criminal acts. The hon. Gentleman referred to many complicated issues. He will be aware that the control and use of the SAS are in the hands of the GOC. No doubt the remarks that have been made today will be drawn to the attention of the GOC.

Will my hon. Friend rebut the innuendo in the question asked by the hon. Member for Londonderry (Mr. Ross) that only the IRA is responsible for assassinations? Will he bring to the attention of the House that quite a number of innocent Roman Catholics have been murdered in the Glencairn area of Belfast in a most hideous and vicious manner by having their throats cut? If he is to send the SAS anywhere in Northern Ireland, will he send it to that area, to prevent assassinations continuing?

My hon. Friend has drawn attention to a fact of life. Assassination, murder, bombing and maiming are acts that do not belong primarily to any one section of the community. We are diminished by any murder, assassination, maiming or bombing, from no matter where it comes.

Is the Minister aware that the Forthriver and Glencairn estates are in my constituency? The hon. Member for Belfast, West (Mr. Fitt) has tried to impress on the House that only Roman Catholics have been murdered in that area. There have been quite a few Protestants murdered in that area. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the IRA has stepped up its assassination attempts on the RUC? Is he also aware that the reinforced vehicles, much publicised in the Press in Northern Ireland, have not been delivered to the RUC?

I am sure that the House will have taken note of what has been said by representatives from the two parts of the community and will appreciate the difficulties which we continually face. I repeat, the death of anybody diminishes us all. If we cannot join together in a serious attempt to stop these crimes without too much labouring of the point, we shall fail everybody.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement about his latest conversations with representatives of political parties.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he has any plans to call a conference of all or any existing groupings involved presently in the Northern Ireland problem; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the political situation in Northern Ireland.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what consideration he has given to devolving some measure of the administration of the Province to a committee made up of politicians drawn from the Northern Ireland parties.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what are his proposals for the political future of Northern Ireland.

At their request I met representatives of the Social Democratic and Labour Party on 31st January and the Official Unionist Party on 1st February. At both meetings I emphasised that the first requirement for political or constitutional progress was for the parties to demonstrate a willingness to seek agreement with each other.

The Government wish to see the establishment of a system of devolved government that commands widespread acceptance throughout both parts of the community in Northern Ireland and provides for participation and partnership by representatives of both communities. I believe that the people of Northern Ireland share that wish and that they are looking to their political leaders to rise above narrow party interests and to work together in the greater interest of Northern Ireland. Given the willingness to work together, I shall play my part and I am sure that the constitutional questions can then be resolved.

The first step is for the parties to talk together. The idea of administrative non-legislative devolution may not satisfy all the aspirations of the parties, but it could provide a subject for discussion to see what could grow from it. I do not exclude interim arrangements for partial devolution, provided that they involve some real power and responsibility and are not merely advisory.

If the parties show willingness to work together, they will not find me slow to respond.

Does that reply mean that, pending an agreement between the different elements in the political life of the Province, the Secretary of State would be willing to advance some proposals to keep democracy alive in what is now a yawning gap between district councils in Northern Ireland and this House?

The hon. Gentleman recognises that there is a gap between local councils and parliamentary representation. During the course of direct rule, with five Ministers present in the Province, we are doing our utmost to bridge the gap, but it is not satisfactory. It would be better to have a devolved Government run by Northern Ireland politicians who are nearer to the people and more representative than five Westminster Ministers operating in the Province. I do not think that the time is opportune for ministerial intervention. I am going through another round of discussions with the political parties. I have just made arrangements to meet delegations from the Alliance Party and the Democratic Unionist Party next week.

Order. I propose to call first the four hon. Members whose Questions are being answered with this one. Mr. Martin Flannery.

Does my right hon. Friend accept that, though I am grateful for the answer which he has given to this group of questions, it is unfortunate that he has lumped Question 12 with the other Questions? Does he also accept that Northern Ireland Question Time is unfortunately characterised by a lack of political questions, and that I try on every occasion to get to the politics, because the solution is not security, but political? Therefore, will he attempt to answer my question which asks him whether he has any plans to get together with the other interested parties in order to seek a political solution so that, no matter what their viewpoints may be, they can discuss that solution across the table? There is no other way. The killing will be going on 10 years from now unless that kind of conference takes place.

I agree that there is no military solution to the problem in Northern Ireland. It has to be a political solution. If there is to be a political solution, it will be necessary to have a partnership in a devolved Government. The political parties must be willing to talk to each other in order to frame an idea for an administrative or executive devolved Government. I am now going through a round of political talks with those parties. I am obliged to my hon. Friend for raising the political question on the Floor of the House. Of course we discuss security a great deal, but that is evident from the situation in Northern Ireland.

As a result of his talks with the political parties in Northern Ireland, is my right hon. Friend able to say whether he sees any movement or development on the power-sharing front or, indeed, whether he finds any acceptability across the broad spectrum of political parties on administrative devolution?

From the meetings that I have so far held with the SDLP and the OUP, the answer is "No". There has been no willingness to move by the OUP leadership. They told me frankly that at this stage they still stand by the majority convention report. I recognised that, flowing from a proposal that was floated on the Floor of the House some weeks ago, they would like to see a little movement in local government. That proposal could be discussed if the other parties were prepared to talk about it.

Why does the Secretary of State take it upon himself to impose conditions about when democracy should be returned to Northern Ireland? Does he agree that Ulster people are denied the right to say how their money and local affairs should be administered? Will he give a more satisfactory and positive answer about the initiative that he intends to take to see that that happens?

How does the hon. Gentleman think that the Government can try to impose solutions upon the people of Northern Ireland when the people themselves and the political parties concerned are not even prepared or willing to talk about solutions? Imposition would be folly.

Does the Secretary of State agree that it is unjust that Northern Ireland should continue to be so unrepresented at Westminster for so many years after the abolition of Stormont? Will he bring forward immediate proposals to remedy that serious injustice?

That is not a matter primarily for me. On many occasions I have explained to the members of the political parties in Northern Ireland and in this House that the course that I should prefer would be a satisfactory devolved Government, which would pave the way for increased parliamentary representation in Northern Ireland.

My right hon. Friend will be aware that what he has said will be welcomed by most of those who have the interests of Ireland at heart, that, in the view of most of us, the previous Tory Government made a valiant effort to create a system of power sharing, and that this Labour Government have tried to follow it through. Therefore, what is the future when some Opposition Members openly declare that they will never agree to power sharing of any kind? What hope is there?

If political parties, or any one political party, especially one of those that play a major role in Northern Ire- land, stand back in that way, they will be imposing a veto on political development in Northern Ireland. They therefore have some responsibility on their shoulders. Because of that, I expect them to rise above these narrow party differences and be prepared to talk to other parties, and to be willing to discuss ways and means of finding a form of devolved government.

Will the right hon. Gentleman explain to his hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Mr. Flannery) and others that the IRA and the other terrorist organisations do not care a fig whether there is devolved government or political agreement in Northern Ireland, and that indeed they would rather that there were not? Second, does he agree that all the political parties in Northern Ireland that have a substantial electoral support are represented in this House and that representatives in this House stand ready both to advise and to co-operate with him?

I appreciate what the right hon. Gentleman has said and I believe his latter point to be valid. He has just made an honest approach to the matter. I know that he and some of his hon. Friends are prepared to try to find ways and means at least of getting a devolved Administration in Northern Ireland. These ideas have already been floated. Because they are ideas, they are worth talking about before they jell into proposals that may be a fait accompli to the others. There are the ideas. Why cannot the parties discuss them?

Is my right hon. Friend aware that it is not only the IRA who do not care a fig about the idea of devolved government? Is he also aware that the House will both welcome his decision in holding these discussions and also stress the need for caution about any undue optimism? Would he agree that it would be foolish to try to fill the Macrory gap in local government if that were to be used as an excuse to stop any form of proper devolved government?

My hon. Friend speaks with knowledge of Northern Ireland affairs. Filling the Macrory gap would be a form of enhanced local government in the Province, but if the parties are prepared to talk about that form of regional council of administration, it may grow into a more executive form of devolved government in time. At this stage, however, I have no evidence of political parties wishing to discuss even that.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the work of the Community Relations Branch of the Royal Ulster Constabulary.

I know from the Chief Constable that the branch is engaged in a wide and varied programme of activity designed to advance understanding between the police and the public and to promote reconciliation in the community. The weekend sessions attended by people from both sides of the community have established a most useful dialogue, and I draw particular encouragement from the branch's work in organising youth clubs and other productive pursuits. For young people the branch makes a very valuable contribution to the establishment of trust and understanding across the sectarian divide. I take this opportunity to acknowledge the dedication of the Community Relations Branch officers and to express my appreciation to them.

I thank my hon. Friend for that encouraging reply, and I appreciate the work of all concerned. Is the work of the Community Relations Branch directed at any particular section of the community?

No. The branch directs its efforts to the whole community. Its aim is to break down sectarian barriers and to promote mutual understanding. Particular emphasis is always placed on the work with young people. I cannot speak too highly of the success already achieved.

I appreciate the Minister's optimistic reply, but will he encourage all parties in Northern Ireland to support the RUC and recruitment to it?

I do so, I will always continue to do so and I have already done so.

Does not the Minister agree that, at a time when police man- power is at a premium, this work could be passed on to someone else to undertake and the police released to get on with defeating terrorism?

There are two points of view on this matter. I believe that, for the time being, the police are the best people to undertake this work. What we are trying to do is create a relationship between the police and the community. I hope that at a later stage further developments will be possible.

The Minister and his colleagues frequently refer to "the two parts of Northern Ireland". Will he make it clear that the only division in Northern Ireland among the people is between those who are terrorists and those who are law-abiding?

I wish that that were the only distinction—it would be much easier to work—but the hon. Gentleman will know that that is not absolutely true.

Questions to the Prime Minister.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker—

Will the hon. Gentleman be kind enough to wait until the end of Prime Minister's Question Time?

Yes, Sir.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will appoint a person with practical experience of property development to the Committee on the Functioning of Financial Institutions under the chairmanship of the right hon. Member for Huyton (Sir H. Wilson).

No. The Committee is not intended to be representative of particular interests. The property development industry is, however, free to submit evidence and I am sure that this would be welcomed by the Committee.

In the interests of increasing invisible earnings, could the Committee investigate the dismal trading performance of that unique branch of social enterprise, Labour Party Properties Limited?

I am sure that if the Committee would find it interesting, it would be open to it to do so. The hon. Gentleman may not understand that Labour Party Properties Limited is a non-profit-making venture—[Interruption]—but, unlike the rest of the property companies in Britain, it is deliberately non-profit-making. In other words, it was set up so that no one who was associated with it should draw any funds or fees from it but that it should assist local parties with their activities and their property. It has been very successful in doing so.

Will my right hon. Friend ask our right hon. Friend the Member for Huyton (Sir H. Wilson), when the Committee is established, to look into the City's response to the National Enter-price Board, the finance for equity organisation, which, after having been in existence for eight months, has made no investment at all in manufacturing industry? We are told that the chairman is being cautious. Is this not being a bit too cautious, especially as plenty of money is sitting around in the City instead of being used for manufacturing industry?

Yes, Sir, the National Enterprise Board has in my judgment made a very good start in the work that it is required to do and is rapidly gaining in prestige and authority over the whole field. As regards the funds available, it is the purpose of the Committee on Financial Institutions—its exact purpose—to examine the reasons why finance from the City has not flowed more easily into industry and, if there are any obstacles, to see that they are removed.

Is the Prime Minister satisfied with the present policy of the Bank of England, which seems to be to intervene to keep interest rates high? How can that be in the interest of the economy, since it attracts hot money which we do not want and deters capital investment which we do want? The net result of a high interest rate policy is to ensure that in nine months unemployment will be higher than it would otherwise have been.

The level of sterling must clearly depend to some extent on the rate of inflation in this country, although that, of course, can be offset for a period of months or indeed, on occasions, a year or more. Therefore, our first task is to ensure that the rate of inflation does not increase and, indeed, that it substantially diminishes. For that purpose, I hope that we shall manage to get through the economic policies that are needed, especially in relation to investment and regeneration, and more especially to another round this year of wage agreements, which will enable us to ensure that inflation will come down.

I should like to emphasise one further point. I believe that if the people of this country, despite the forecasts which were made, want to throw away the gains of the last couple of years—[HON. MEMBERS: "What gains?"]—for example, the gains by reducing the absurd rate of money increase bequeathed to us by the previous Government, which has now been brought under control, and various other gains including the halving of the rate of inflation. I would say to the House, and through it to the country, that if we can accept another year of continued restraint there is little doubt that the rate of inflation will be substantially lower. If that is now thrown away as a result of impatience, I believe that we shall be heading for a vastly increased rate of inflation.

asked the Prime Minister if the television broadcast by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs on 17th January 1977 on "Panorama" on economic policy represented Government policy.

I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for Northampton, South (Mr. Morris) on 8th February.

Is it not now clear that the Labour Party is the party that believes that a high rate of unemployment is the way to keep wages down? Does the Prime Minister not think that he is actually overdoing it? If he brought down interest rates a little and encouraged a little bit of expansion he might be able to provide a few more jobs and prosperity for our people.

The hon. Gentleman should know that interest rates have come down from 15 per cent. to 12 per cent. If we manage to keep on top of the rate of inflation, even without the hon. Gentleman's support, I trust that interest rates will be able to continue to come down. But to some extent they, like the rate of sterling, will reflect the rate of inflation, and inflation is still our major enemy. If we do not conquer that, unemployment will go even higher than it is today. The suggestion that unemployment is used as an instrument is completely and utterly false.

That is what the Government are doing.

In considering the next stage of discussions on income controls will the Prime Minister consider exempting from restraint new profit-sharing schemes in industry, on the ground that they are more likely to introduce harmony, partnership and productivity than anything contained in the Bullock Report?

I shall bring that to the notice of the Chancellor. The discussions that he is now having will take place with both sides of industry. All these matters can be considered. I have frequently referred to the fact that this third year will be the most difficult of all. People are inevitably impatient with the situation. That I understand. But there is no better way. No one has been able to point one out, certainly not the Opposition.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that wage restraint in itself it not sufficient to keep down the rate of price inflation? There needs to be something else by way of price control in order to make sure that the country and trade unionists derive benefit from the sacrifices that they are being asked to make. Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that trade unionists are feeling somewhat sick that it is they who are continually being asked to make sacrifices and that their living standards are about to go down still further? Will the Prime Minister give confidence to the discussions now taking place by announcing shortly that the Government intend to bring in price controls? That is the only way in which trade unionists will now consider phase 3 of the wages policy.

I agree with my hon. Friend that the trade union leaders will have an extremely difficult time this year trying to convince their members of the benefit of this inevitable policy. It is a policy that must succeed, and we must all work to that end. I shall certainly do all I can to make it succeed.

My hon. Friend is right about prices. Inevitably these two things are compared, but he will know, as we all know, that to a large extent commodity prices and the price of imported raw materials are not under our control. For example, the quintupling of oil prices led to a great deal of unemployment not only in this country but throughout the world. When we are considering what can be done to control prices we must take these factors into account. But we shall take every step that we can to make sure that profit margins are not excessive and that prices are kept under control.

May I return to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for St. Marylebone (Mr. Baker) about exchange rate policy? Does the Prime Minister acknowledge that one other factor that would keep up prices would be any attempt to hold down the exchange rate? That would also have the effect of keeping up interest rates. Can the Prime Minister tell the House whether the authorities are deliberately intervening to hold down the exchange rate, and, if so, with what objective and for how long?

It is not the custom to discuss exchange rate policy in that kind of detail. I do not propose to do so this afternoon. Whatever the Opposition may feel about giving signals to people in the City, it is not my desire to do so.

asked the Prime Minister what will be on the agenda of the Rome meeting of the European Council at the end of March.

The European Council does not have a formal agenda. It is still too early to say exactly what the Council will wish to discuss, but, in addition to Community matters, there will clearly be a range of important issues arising from the world economic situation.

Will my right hon. Friend ensure that the problem of unemployment is put well to the forefront of the agenda? Does he agree that unemployment is a global problem and that concerted action is needed to deal with it? Will he ensure that the Council considers the bold and imaginative proposals that President Carter has made? It is time that we had some positive response to those proposals.

Yes, I shall certainly ensure that that is so. There is no doubt that between 1968 and 1974 world production grew at the rate of 8 per cent. a year. But the fact that world production fell by 8 per cent. in 1975–76 has led to a dramatic increase in unemployment throughout the whole of the industrialised world. The steps that have been taken by President Carter have been valuable. Other countries, too, should take such steps. These matters will be discussed at the European Council.

Will the Prime Minister consider making this meeting really meaningful by insisting on the ratification of the European convention against terrorism? It is a proper subject for discussion at that meeting. Will he also firmly raise with the Government of the Irish Republic their ratification of this convention, because at the moment they are not prepared to ratify? Will he point out to them that if they wish to pursue a course of civilised behaviour but are not prepared to ratify the convention, Europe and this country will have to consider various actions against them?

The right hon. Gentleman is a proper person to raise the question of the ratification of this agreement. I can certainly assure him that I shall discuss it with the other Heads of Government. Everyone needs to ratify it. It is Britain's desire that they should do so, and we shall place the maximum possible pressure on them to do so within the limits of our power.

Will my right hon. Friend take the opportunity to allay the considerable anxiety in Europe about the Government's integrity on direct elections to the European Parliament? Will he give his colleagues in Europe a categorical assurance that the legislation will be on the statute book by the end of this session? [Interruption.]

Does my hon. Friend really believe that after his expeditions over the last few weeks I would give any guarantee about any legislation being on the statute book? I am not caught that way. What the Government have said is that they will continue to use their best endeavours in this matter.

At the meeting of the European Council, will the Prime Minister take the opportunity to explain to it why it is that, when it comes to devolution, the Government are settling the powers of the Assemblies before they have the direct elections, but that, when it comes to the European Parliament, they want to have direct elections before settling the powers of the new Assembly? Is it not putting the cart before the horse to have direct elections before agreeing to any extension of powers that the Assembly may have? After all, ultimately, they might be vetoed by the French.

I would not discuss devolution with the European Council, in any event. As for direct elections, the hon. Member for Banbury (Mr. Marten) is unusually wrong. The powers of the European Assembly are settled. They are there. They are known. Of course, proposals might always be put forward for changes, but that does not necessarily mean that they would take place. This is an entirely different position.

Will the Prime Minister press for the inclusion on the agenda for the Council meeting in March of a debate on the European common fisheries policy? Is he aware that the February Council meeting was a disaster for the United Kingdom's inshore fleet, 80 per cent. of which is in Scotland? Will he press, and ask his Ministers to press, for a 50-mile limit, or does he intend to give up that demand?

Why does not the hon. Lady boycott the place?

The agenda is a matter for agreement between the Heads of Government. However, there is no formal agenda, in that we try to settle issues that are the subject of negotiations. The hon. Lady's version of what took place at the February Council is totally inaccurate. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary will continue to negotiate this matter in the Foreign Ministers' Council, as will my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture in the Agricultural Ministers' Council.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the Prime Minister's replies, I beg to give notice that I shall take pleasure in raising this matter on the Adjournment.