asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he is satisfied with the recruitment, equipment and training of the Royal Ulster Constabulary.

I am satisfied that recruitment to the Royal Ulster Constabulary is proceeding satisfactorily and that arrangements for the provision of equipment and the training of officers by the Police Authority and the Chief Constable respectively meet the needs of the force.

Will the Minister particularly look at the need for facilities for training on the new weapons? Will he also do all he can to speed up the supply of the promised new vehicles and examine the problem caused by the shortage of accommodation for the regional crime squads?

The Chief Constable has a working party which discusses these matters and advises him on them. They are continually reviewed. The Chief Constable is aware of the adjustments required to keep pace with the new equipment.

Will the Minister convey to the RUC our congratulations on its handling of the recent strike organised by the United Ulster Unionist Action Council? How many people have been charged with intimidation and will appear before the courts under the Protection of Property and Persons (Northern Ireland) Act 1969? Is the Minister aware that the firm stand by the Secretary of State that picketing with intimidation was against the law greatly sustained the police in their difficulty on that occasion?

My right hon. and hon. Friends have conveyed to the members of the RUC, through the Chief Constable, our congratulations on the performance which they managed to achieve during a most difficult and challenging time. We applaud their courage in many of the things they did. From memory, I think that about 40 people have been charged with intimidation under the Protection of Property and Persons (Northern Ireland) Act 1969. About 110 charges have still to be processed and have to go before the Director of Public Prosecutions before further action can be taken.

Can the Minister say whether the RUC's obvious impartiality during the strike has helped it towards achieving peace in the "green" areas? Has it increased recruits to the force from those areas?

The impartiality of the RUC is recognised. It was projected in the way that it succeeded. It is difficult to know to which "green" areas the hon. Member refers. In the main, the people recognise what is being done. More and more they are prepared to accept that the RUC is serving the Province as a whole.

What progress has been made with the recruitment of Roman Catholics to the force?

The recruitment of Roman Catholics is still not as good as we could wish. There are difficulties, but we hope that following the last confrontation in the Province Roman Catholics will recognise that there is a need for their services.

Has there been any lowering of the standards required for recruitment to the RUC? Is my hon. Friend aware that there is a great deal of suspicion attached to the standards required for recruitment to the RUC Reserve? Will he undertake, even though there appears to be a shortage of personnel in the RUC and the RUC Reserve, that the same calibre of candidate will be sought and that there will be no lowering of standards?

All I can say is that to the best of my knowledge there has been no lowering of standards. As far as I am aware—I can only take the figures—about 1,000 people have made applications and of those only 258 have been accepted. That is an indicator that follows the pattern of what has gone previously. That is the only reply that I can give at present

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what talks he has had with the political parties in Northern Ireland during the Whitsun Adjournment to lead to a political settlement in the Province.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement about his recent discussions with party political leaders in the Province.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the talks he has had with parties in Northern Ireland.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement about his talks with political leaders.

During the week beginning 23rd May I met separately representatives of the Official Unionist Party, the Social Democratic and Labour Party, the Alliance Party and the Democratic Unionist Party to discuss security and constitutional matters. Following these meetings, on 8th June I announced a package of measures which offered an intensification of the security effort against the terrorists within existing policy. This has since been generally welcomed.

Does the Secretary of State understand that there are many outside the ranks of his own party who would want respectfully to commend him very warmly for the firmness he showed in standing up to the attempted disruption of the Province? Does not the repudiation of the leadership of the hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley) give the right hon. Gentleman a real opportunity for political initiative? Will he take the House a little more into his confidence and perhaps speculate on the areas in which, as he said in his answer, interim progress might be made rather than attempting a long-term solution at this stage?

I am much obliged for what the hon. Gentleman said initially, but, of course, any firm resolution by any Secretary of State for Northern Ireland would have been of no avail if the people themselves had not been prepared to contest the intimidation that took place and on occasions to march to work in spite of the fact that there was no transport to take them there.

I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman's desire to act cautiously, but does he agree that a top level of local government would at least give the Province comparability with the rest of the United Kingdom in the way in which administrative local government is carried out? May I suggest that this is a natural first step which would not really carry him into dangerous and difficult ground?

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will try to understand the political difficulties in Northern Ireland, as distinct from observing them from this House. There are eight major parties in Northern Ireland. Four of them survived the last election, and not one of them, at this stage, is prepared to look at seriously and quickly a form of county council or an upper tier of local government. One party would believe that it would be a divergence from the main goal. Another party would fear that it was giving one of the parties in Northern Ireland unnecessary responsibility too quickly and recognises that participation might come about without it getting its proper bargaining rights. That sort of area is the area of discussion now between the parties concerned. I am hopeful that there will be a solution, but it will take a little more than hon. Members realise.

In view of the asperity of the Secretary of State towards my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Mr. McNair-Wilson), may I ask whether he is aware that my hon. Friend has worked in Northern Ireland for a number of years and has a good deal of knowledge of the affairs of the Province? As Northern Ireland is a Province and not a colony of the United Kingdom, when Ministers have important statements to make, whether on security or anything else, will they ensure that Parliament is the first to hear, and not the Press?

I think that that really depends upon whether the statement that is being made in the Province is of a major change of policy. If that be so, of course the House ought to be properly informed and a statement made. But that must be a matter of judgment for the Secretary of State and his Ministers in the Province. I know to which matter the hon. Gentleman refers, and on this occasion I did not think that it necessitated a major statement in the House.

At the risk of running foul of my right hon. Friend's asperity, may I add my congratulations to him and to his colleagues for their work during the recent strike? My right hon. Friend talked about political initiatives. He will have observed the comment of the new Prime Minister of the Republic. When does he hope to start to meet his opposite numbers? Have any tentative dates been fixed yet even though there is no actual formation of a Ministry?

Once again, I am obliged to my hon. Friend for his kind remarks at the outset of his question. At this stage, I have no plans to meet either Mr. Lynch or whomever he appoints as Ministers. It is a little too early to say. He is not officially appointed Taoiseach until 5th July. We do not know who will be appointed as Ministers, especially for foreign affairs. Therefore, it is a little too early to say. As I have stated previously, I hope that the close co-operation and the good working relationships that were established with the former Government will continue, and I do not see any reason why they should not continue.

The right hon. Gentleman spoke disparagingly of Ulster's political problems, but does he not recognise that under the present inept Government and under direct rule Northern Ireland suffers from an alarming and heartbreaking increase in unemployment, rocketing prices, lower wages, a lower standard of living, and a stultifying bureaucracy? Is it not about time to hand over Ulster affairs to an Ulster Government and an Ulster Parliament on the British system?

I share the hon. Gentleman's concern. There is now an unemployment rate of 11·2 per cent. in Northern Ireland, which is nearly twice the average for Great Britain. The hon. Gentleman will recognise, however—without being too carping a critic—that Her Majesty's Government have been taking special measures to try to help Northern Ireland in its economic difficulties. My regional friends might disagree with me, but we have managed to save the regional employment premium for the whole of Northern Ireland. It has been phased out completely in Great Britain. That has saved 10,000 jobs in Northern Ireland. When we were called upon to make a contribution to the public expenditure cuts of £1,000 million, Northern Ireland gave a nominal £5 million. It should also be recognised that the major effort by Her Majesty's Government to get the two LPGs for Harland and Wolff has made the biggest practical and psychological breakthrough for Northern Ireland and has given it the first chance in the world of building the most technologically advanced ships on the stocks today.

Following the last outburst by the hon. Member for Down, North (Mr. Kilfedder), does my right hon. Friend agree that some of us are of the view that we are waiting for the hon. Gentleman to put forward solutions that we may then disagree with? We are looking to members of political parties in Ulster to come forward with some ideas whereby rapprochement can be achieved in seeking to find a path forward. My right hon. Friend must not go further than he has done, otherwise he will fall into the trap that the hon. Member for Down, North wants him to fall into.

Yes, I think that there is great truth in what my hon. Friend says. There are some Opposition Members who want vigorously to discuss matters but never come to a solution. It must also be remembered that we are paying a major subvention in order to help the economic difficulties of Northern Ireland.

It was a matter of surprise that the right hon. Gentleman did not choose to make his major and welcome statement about the strengthening of security and the increase of penalties for terrorist crimes to this House and not first to the Press. The right hon. Gentleman spoke to the Press on 8th June. Could not the statement have waited until we came back here?

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman feels that I treated the House with discourtesy. We have been working for some time on the intensification of security within present policy, and there was no change in policy. Secondly, the hon. Gentleman and some of his hon. Friends have been urging me for months to intensify security, and therefore I made my statement at the earliest possible moment without discourtesy to the House.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will consider financial assistance for the introduction of a disabled persons' telephone bureau which would be structured on similar lines to that which is currently operating in Manchester.

I understand that the telephone information service for the disabled in Manchester is operated by a small number of volunteers who are themselves disabled and who provide the service from their own homes. So far there has been no demand for a similar scheme in Northern Ireland, but if any disabled persons or organisations representing them wish to have such a scheme introduced their views will be considered sympathetically.

I am grateful to the Under-Secretary of State for his reply. Will he accept that a number of people involved in the voluntary social services are anxious to introduce such a scheme, and that the introduction of this scheme would cost hundreds rather than thousands of pounds? Will he be prepared to meet a number of interested people in order to discuss this matter further in the immediate future?

My noble Friend the Minister of State is responsible for this matter, and in speaking for him I know that he would be only too pleased to meet people who might come forward with any scheme. It does not involve a great deal of money and we are quite prepared to talk about it.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how much the Northern Ireland Police Authority has budgeted for in the year 1977–78 on capital building rojects.

Provision of £3,820,000 has been made in Police Authority estimates for capital building projects in the year 1977–78.

Bearing in mind that the Minister reneged on his promise to the people of Lurgan to rebuild their police station, will he look into the budget and try to find a few pounds in order to clear and secure the site which we hope will eventually be used to rebuild the station, so that I can convince those people that he is genuine and honest in his assurance that they will have that station soon?

I do not share the hon. Member's strictures upon me. He would not expect me to do so. Indeed, I tried to explain to him during an Adjournment debate exactly why this decision was made. I thought he had accepted it then. I shall, however, bring his comments to the notice of those who are concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will now take steps to restore the death penalty for murders committed by terrorists in Northern Ireland.

No, Sir.

Is not the Secretary of State aware that when members of the security forces are captured by the IRA in Northern Ireland they cannot look forward to a prison cell but only to the most cruel torture and eventual death? Will he also accept that people in Northern Ireland believe that terrorism will not be finally defeated until the sentences of the "godfathers" of terrorism are matched by society?

I am sure that the majority of the people of Northern Ireland would not want capital punishment to be brought back for conviction on a major charge. They are fully aware that such a course would bring back the full depth of sectarian hatred in Northern Ireland. The first man to hang on a rope, whether Protestant or Catholic, would set off once again the sectarian hatred which we are managing now to sink into the past. I hope, therefore, that the hon. Gentleman will help to explain to his constituents that capital punishment has gone. That was decided by the House and, as far as we are concerned, it will not return.

Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that after all that has happened in the last few years in Northern Ireland, and even branching out further on occasions, it is very sad that he should have to answer such a sectarian question as that put by the hon. Member for Londonderry (Mr. Ross)?

Hanging has been abolished in Northern Ireland since 1973. I am firmly convinced that if we brought it back the first man to be hanged would be declared a martyr. If he were a member of the Provisional IRA, it would give rise to a great deal of IRA propaganda and help its cause immensely.

Is the Secretary of State aware of the universal anxiety of prison officers and their families in all parts of the United Kingdom about their own safety? Will he consider the position of prison officers?

The hon. Gentleman would appear to want me to go back on my statement step by step, through prison officers or policemen, on the way to the restoration of capital punishment. I am not prepared to do that. In the Irish Republic the Government still have that right, but I believe that there have been no hangings, even in the Republic, since 1954.

Did I understand the Secretary of State to say that the result of the judicial process can be sectarian?

The result of the judicial process as at present carried out in Northern Ireland is to treat all the terrorists as criminals, to charge them and, when they are convicted, put them in gaol, and for none of them to be a martyr and for none to be treated as a political prisoner who can get an amnesty.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many housing action areas have been declared in Belfast; and what is the future programme for housing action areas in the city.

Of some 60 potential housing action areas in Belfast, three have already been declared by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive with the consent of the Department of the Environment (Northern Ireland). A further 24 areas have been short-listed for declaration over the next two years. The Housing Executive will be responsible for most action areas, but there will also be significant housing association involvement.

Will my hon. Friend tell the House what specific features are required to be presented before an area can be declared a housing action area? Is he satisfied that the Northern Ireland Housing Executive is aware of the urgency of the problem and that it has the resources to use in those areas?

We are currently going through a public inquiry on the subject of roadways, and it would not be right for me to make any comment on the last point. As to the awareness of the Housing Executive of the problems of housing in Belfast, my hon. Friend must know that the Housing Executive, the Department and the Administration are more aware than anyone. My hon. Friend might be aware that, in order to heighten the public awareness of these problems, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State came with me to the worst areas of Belfast earlier this week.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when the marking of detonators for use in Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland began; and when the security forces first recovered a detonator so marked.

Marking began during the latter part of 1971, and the first marked detonators were recovered shortly afterwards.

I am grateful to the Minister for his answer. Is he satisfied, however, that the present requirements for marking detonators with the country of their intended use are sufficient for their control, bearing in mind that the key to an explosion is a detonator?

I am satisfied, and the best advice that has been given to me is that most of the detonators still in circulation are those that were acquired long before 1971. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, their life is very long-lasting.

Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that I travelled home from London to Belfast yesterday with a Member of the other place who had on his person two detonators, and this despite the fact that he had gone through the security check at London Airport? Does not that show how easy it is to transport these vital pieces of equipment to the terrorist, and that the Minister should be taking all measures possible to stop this traffic?

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will give me the name of the person who acted so illegally. If we can deal with that matter, we can perhaps get the others who may be following that bad example. I would add that although I am pleased he came from Belfast I am not pleased at his previous remarks.

Does not the Minister agree that it is much more important to guard the detonators from the place of manufacture to the place where they are intended to be used rather than marking them? What is happening at the moment is that they get stolen and are illicitly used.

There are a thousand and one ways in which detonators are obtained. It is not always in transit. They are sometimes taken from storage and sometimes from the place of manufacture. To guard them would be a costly exercise. The way that they are being dealt with is, I believe, the best way of all that has been suggested.

As the security forces are finding many unmarked detonators, will the Government reconsider their rather neutral attitude to the Detonator Bill now being guided through another place by Lord Brookeborough, which would markedly intensify restrictions on marking on this side of the Irish Sea?

I have noted what the hon. Gentleman has said and I shall bring it to the attention of all concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he expects to be able to report progress in resolving the dispute over ships' dues at Carlingford Lough.

The Carlingford Lough Commissioners were asked in November last year to submit a fresh appreciation of their claim against Greenore Ferry Services and the action which might be open to them to pursue through the courts. This has not yet been received but I understand that the Commissioners hope to have the legal advice within a matter of weeks.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, if the legal approach does not produce results within a reasonable period, this is a matter on which a solution ought to be sought at a somewhat higher level between the two countries concerned for the evident benefit of both?

I have not ruled out the approach that the right hon. Gentleman suggests, but I think I should wait until I see the Commissioners before I make a decision.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, pursuant to the answer given on 19th May 1976, whether the committee of his officials reviewing the judgment enforcement procedures embodied in the Judgment (Enforcement) Act (Northern Ireland) 1969 and the Payments of Debt (Emergency Provisions) Act (Northern Ireland) has completed its work; and whether the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland has been asked to consider the need for changes having regard to the dissatisfaction among the legal profession over the existing procedures.

Yes. The Committee has completed its work and interested parties, including the Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland, have been consulted.

May I take it from that that a working committee of the Supreme Court will be established? If that is so, I hope that there will be adequate representation from the solicitors' profession.

I cannot give a positive response on the right hon. Gentleman's first point about a working party. We shall consult everyone involved. I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that an Order in Council will be brought forward after all the discussions have taken place sometime later this year.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many people are currently employed in Northern Ireland; and how this compares with 10, 15 and 20 years ago.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what are the most recent unemployment figures in Northern Ireland, giving male unemployment figures for townships with at least 15,000 population.

The results of the census of employment taken in June of each year show that, in 1976, 491,600 persons were employed in Northern Ireland, an increase of 25,800 over the number employed 10 years ago and an increase of 51,000 over the number employed 15 years ago. Strictly comparable figures are not available prior to 1959, but a crude comparison with 1956 indicates an increase of 45,100.

Can my hon. Friend say what is being done about youth unemployment? Is it true that the position is likely to be alleviated once we get over the birth rate bulge and that the figures will then follow the birth rate in this country?

The bulge in the birth rate in the rest of the United Kingdom took place in 1960 and is now showing itself in the number of school leavers. The bulge in Northern Ireland has always been a bulge in Northern Ireland. The birth figures there per thousand population are well above those of the rest of the United Kingdom and create an unemployment situation in which we have to find one-third more jobs for school leavers than we have to find elsewhere.

Is the Minister satisfied with the contribution of the Northern Ireland Development Agency? Can he give some instances of employment created by the Agency?

I shall never be satisfied with the unemployment situation in Northern Ireland until it has come down to a level that equates with the rest of the United Kingdom. NIDA has done, and is doing, a practical job, not only in creating jobs in Northern Ireland but in saving a lot of jobs. I give as one instance a NIDA factory creating 300 jobs in an area of high unemployment in Belfast. That is a great contribution.

When the Minister realises his ambition of reducing the level of unemployment in Northern Ireland to that in the rest of the country, will he bear in mind the number of people employed specifically in security in the Province?

Yes. Unfortunately, well over 30,000 people are employed in security in the Province. I should like to see unemployment figures without that increase.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will introduce legislation to ensure that those house builders who fail to build to a reasonable standard must make good the defects which develop in a building within a certain period from the date of construction.

No, Sir. I am satisfied that effective administration of the existing legislation will protect house buyers against builders who fail to build houses to the required standard.

It will be no surprise that I am disappointed with that reply. Surely the purchase of a home represents a considerable financial burden, particularly when taken on by young people. They therefore ought to be protected from inferior materials and from bad workmanship by some scandalous house builders, who, when asked to remedy defects, refuse to do so. Will the Minister look at this matter again?

The hon. Gentleman asked whether I would introduce legislation. Although I said that I shall not do that, that does not mean that I or my Department are not concerned about building standards. We have been in correspondence about a particular problem and I take the matter extremely seriously. Administrative machinery is available in order to protect house buyers, and I am very concerned that we should use it to the utmost. If the hon. Gentleman or any other hon. Member from Northern Ireland discovers cases where builders are not building to adequate standards, we shall use all the machinery and powers that we have to ensure that the situation is remedied.

In the rest of the United Kingdom this matter is dealt with by the National House Builders Registration Council. That is a voluntary body which has done a magnificent job on this side of the water, where no house without a certificate would be approved by a building society. Why does not Northern Ireland take a lesson from us and, apart from living with each other irrespective of religion, encourage builders to build houses properly and get a certificate for them?

The NHBRC has now become the NHBC. We have a parallel organisation in Northern Ireland. I have had recent discussions with it and have made known that I want to see a more rigorous interpretation of the powers devolved to that organisation to protect the consumer. We must remember that we are concerned not only with the building industry but with the consumer, the person who buys the house.

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that excellent work is being done by the Northern Ireland National House Building Council, as the Minister of State well knows and as I can personally testify? Will he recommend to house purchasers to make sure that they buy only from registered house builders who get the protection of the scheme?

That is quite true. I am aware of the right hon. and learned Gentleman's association with the NHBRC. I must stress that there is room for improvement in Northern Ireland. I am anxious, as I am sure is the NHBC, to see an improvement in the surveillance of building standards.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what progress is being made towards an integrated education system in Northern Ireland.

My noble Friend the Minister of State, Lord Melchett, will be speaking on this subject in another place later today. I would not wish to anticipate his remarks.

Does my hon. Friend agree that it would be a great step forward in Northern Ireland if the education system were integrated? How soon does he expect to see progress made?

There are differing views in Northern Ireland about this whole issue. It is an issue on which both sections in the community have different views. My noble Friend has instigated discussions between all the elements involved. Irrespective of what we are trying to do in secondary education, we shall continue to consider ways and methods of extending the principle of integrated education, which to some extent already exists.

Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House what is the Government's view on integrated education, and especially their response to the Bill that is to be introduced in another place this afternoon by Lord Dunleath? Will he tell the House why an important statement on secondary education was made not in the House of Commons but outside? Why did that happen?

It happened because in the judgment of my noble Friend it was right that he should make that statement in the House of Lords. I am aware that some people have said that the statement should have been made in this House. The plain fact is that we have not heard such criticism from Northern Ireland Members or from anyone in Northern Ireland. My noble Friend, who is responsible for education, thought that the right place to make it was in the House of Lords.

As I presume my hon. Friend knows what his noble Friend will be saying in the House of Lords, what inhibits him from telling Members of this place what his noble Friend will be telling those in the House of Lords?

The subject is the responsibility of my noble Friend. Although I could tell my right hon. Friend in general what my noble Friend will be saying in another place, I could not be as specific as perhaps he might want me to be.

Surely the point is that the hon. Gentleman's noble Friend Lord Melchett made the statement to the Press last week in full. Why did he not wait to make it in Parliament?

That was on an entirely different subject, the 11-plus. My noble Friend will be making a general statement on education policy this afternoon.

Do the Cowan Report proposals mean two sets of comprehensive schools, one for Protestants and one for Catholics? If so, that is expensive as well as divisive. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is extraordinary that shared schools, the only constructive education suggestion in the special circumstances of Northern Ireland, are barely mentioned in the Cowan Report, although incidentally, as the hon. Gentleman knows, that is the subject of Lord Dunleath's Bill that is to be introduced in another place this afternoon, which I hope very much the Government will not oppose?

I cannot anticipate what my noble Friend will be saying in another place. The hon. Gentleman's views on integrated education are well known, but he must know that in Northern Ireland the subject is a matter of deep controversy. One side has one view and the other side has a completely different view. The Government have an impartial role. If we see signs in the community that there is a pressing requirement for greater speed towards integration, we shall encourage it.

Does that mean that the hon. Gentleman will not act in matters that are controversial? Surely the present Home Secretary promised a conference on integrated education over a year ago. The Government are dragging their feet on this issue as they are on divorce and family law reform, which is urgently needed in Northern Ireland.

I do not think that that is a fair accusation. My noble Friend and his predecessors did all they could to pursue integrated education and to discover the precise state of affairs. As for saying that we have burked the issue because it is controversial, if the hon. Gentleman considers other aspects of education he will remember, for example, that we have announced the abolition of the 11-plus. That is a clear indication that in education we are prepared to grasp the nettle even though it may be controversial.

I introduce a brief word of caution before we turn to the Prime Minister's Questions. I want the House to know how I propose to exercise my discretion in respect of the sub judice rule if there are questions about Grunwick. Questions which in general terms include the conduct of the police and the crowds will be allowed. However, in exercising my discretion in respect of the sub judice rule I shall disallow any reference to arrests where charges are pending or cases due to be heard. I think that this holds the balance between the rights of the House and avoiding creating prejudice about cases before the courts.

asked the Prime Minister what discussions he has had with the Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland concerning direct elections to a European Assembly.

None recently.

Will the right hon. Gentleman kindly have a word with the Irish Prime Minister about the whole principle of the inflated salaries of about £25,000 and allowances of about £25,000 which it is proposed to pay to the Members of the European Assembly, if any? Does he realise that it would cause great umbrage among the British people if they received that amount? Could the surplus over and above the salary of British Members of Parliament be collected from them, paid into the Consolidated Fund and redistributed to us?

I have seen references in the Press to the proposed salaries but I do not know whether they are right. If they are right, I regard them together with the allowances as grossly inflated beyond the responsibilities of the work to be done. I shall take note of the hon. Gentleman's interesting and ingenious suggestion.

When the Prime Minister next meets the Prime Minister of Eire, will he draw his attention to the fact that we are now paying a levy of about £50 a ton on imports of wheat from Canada? Will he ask him whether he supports that levy in view of the fact that the forthcoming Euro-elections are to be for direct rule, which will determine such levies as Britain might pay? Does the right hon. Gentleman think that the Leader of the Opposition would be wiser to allow her party a completely free vote, which my right hon. Friend has had the wisdom to give to those on the Government Benches?

I am sure that the Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland will be interested to hear about our internal domestic arrangements. As for matters of legislation here, I have the feeling that he and I will be discussing rather different issues when we meet. He has already indicated to me—at least, he has already intimated publicly—that he will be seeking a meeting. As for the suggestion of my hon. Friend, it is not a bad idea, is it?

Has the right hon. Gentleman noticed the ease, skill and rapidity with which the French have processed ratification of and legislation for European direct elections, despite a reputation for a high degree of nationalism? With the introduction of the Bill on Friday, does the right hon. Gentleman hope to emulate the French example?

I do not think that I shall be discussing the French example with the Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland, nor many other interesting matters which arise out of the European Community. I do not really like the use of the word "process" in respect of legislation in this House, especially after what we went through yesterday.

Whether or not the Prime Minister of Eire supports direct elections to the Common Market, will the right hon. Gentleman seek to persuade him to sign the European convention on extradition?

It has always been our view that it would be a good thing for States to sign the convention, and that remains our policy. Although I express that view, I do not think it would be a good thing to begin by impressing that point on a newly-arrived Prime Minister.

asked the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for 23rd June.

This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be holding further meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. This evening I shall be greeting Her Majesty the Queen on her arrival at Barry Docks.

Will the Prime Minister find time to visit the Grunwick picket line to get a fairer assessment of the situation than the Tory Leader, who sends her lackeys and message boys to support a ruthless employer, or the other member of the Shadow Cabinet, the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph), who does not have the guts to withdraw his unsubstantiated allegations about the Secretary of State for Employment using unfair, very foul and illegal methods to coerce people into joining trade unions?

I shall not visit the picket line at Grunwick. I understand, and I am very glad to hear, that the General Secretary of APEX has now decided—I think that I made the suggestion to him first—that he should identify pickets by arm bands or in some other way so that those who latch on to this in order to turn an industrial dispute into a political battle—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."]—that applies to the National Association for Freedom as well as to the International Socialists—can be kept clear of this industrial dispute. [An HON. MEMBER: "Identify the police."] I hope—I say this because I think that this situation is getting extremely serious —that legitimate pickets, properly identified, can be allowed to operate. Those who wish to demonstrate in support of the workers who have been dismissed at this factory should be separately organised into a demonstration and clearly distinguished from the pickets. That would make the job of the police very much easier in trying to sort out this dispute.

May I ask the Prime Minister, arising out of the answer he has just given, whether he is really asking people not to join the picket lines —he recognises that numbers themselves can be intimidating and can obstruct— and that he wishes to give his full support to the police in the way in which they are carrying out their dangerous duties?

They are hooligans: we saw them.

What action does the right hon. Gentleman propose to take to protect the right of the law-abiding citizen to go peacefully to work?

I notice that the right hon. Lady issued a statement to the Press last night, although it was totally unnecessary to do so. [HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] It was another example of politicians latching on to this dispute. The Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis and his officers are in no doubt about the position and the Government's support. This is my reply to the right hon. Lady, because she may have overlooked the fact that her deputy leader asked a question about this on Monday and was given a clear reply about the support which was being given by the Home Secretary and by the Government to police officers.

She is an opportunist.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the scenes which have been shown almost daily outside Grunwick have been and are most alarming to the public, and that so far we have had no total condemnation of intimidation and violence on the picketing lines from the Prime Minister—no condemnation at all? Will he now answer my question about what action he proposes to take to protect the rights of the law-abiding citizen to go to work peacefully? Will he also remember that, when he was asked about Ministers joining the picket line before, he did not condemn them for joining it but even invited other people to go as well?

The right hon. Lady reinforces my view that she is trying to turn this matter into a political battle. I agree entirely that this is a most serious issue, and that is why I resent the politicians who latch on to it. As regards the members of the Administration who went on to the picket line, they were members of APEX, members of the union, at a time when the dispute was being peacefully conducted. Now, it is not being peacefully conducted, and I therefore believe that it is necessary to separate legitimate and authorised pickets from those who latch on to it. That seems to me the best way of doing it.

Without bottles.

Of course without bottles. Why does the hon. Gentleman make such obvious remarks? Does he think that it is necessary for me to stand here and defend the police from being hit over the head with bottles? [Interruption]. Hon. Members should try to calm this thing down. It could become extremely serious. I am not addressing myself to anyone in particular except, for the moment, those who are bellowing from the Opposition Benches. I have suggested that Mr. Grantham should try, with the Commissioner of Police, to limit the number of pickets in this matter, that they should agree who they should be, that they should be easily identified and that others should stay away or demonstrate in a different way. There is really no need to try to make this situation worse. It will get bad enough and we should try to keep the temperature down.

May I assure my right hon. Friend that, except for last Monday week, there has been a clear distinction between the six Gujerati pickets —girls of about 4 ft. 8 in.—and the large mass demonstration which exists on the other side of the picket lines? May I thank the police for their courtesy? When I and my colleagues seek to talk to the picket lines, we are permitted to do so and we do so and we come away.

I am obliged to my hon. Friend, who knows a great deal about this matter and has not tried to exacerbate the issue in any way—in contradistinction to some others. I want to make it clear to him that the police have very clear instructions. They are carrying out their difficult task. Complaints will be investigated. If they are made in the proper form, they will be carried through.

Does the Prime Minister agree that one reason why this dispute has become violent, when it was not violent before, is that it has attracted a great amount of publicity? One of the reasons contributing to that publicity was the presence of three Cabinet Ministers on the picket line. In view of that, will not the Prime Minister agree in retrospect that the presence of those Ministers was most unwise?

No. Anybody is entitled to picket peacefully—even the hon. Member, the Leader of the Opposition or myself. I hope to hear from at least one hon. Member opposite this afternoon that the Opposition deplore what has happened in this factory, where workers who simply wanted to join a trade union were dismissed for that reason.

I have been invited on two or three occasions to visit Grunwick at a time when very few people were taking much interest in the situation there. Does the Prime Minister agree that the fact that there are 1½ million people on the dole has not helped and that it is inviting people like Mr. Ward to recruit cheap labour? We passed the Employment Protection Act to deliver the basic freedom for people to organise. Is the Prime Minister aware that on 16th May this year the right hon. Member for Lowestoft (Mr. Prior), who is Opposition spokesman on employment, issued a letter in which he urged acceptance of the ACAS Report at that time? The Leader of the Opposition should stand up today and announce that she agrees with the acceptance of that report—not five weeks ago, as her right hon. Friend did, but now, when the matter is most important.

I have already expressed my view. I have always felt that the right hon. Member for Lowestoft (Mr. Prior) had an understanding of industrial problems. I was not surprised when he issued a statement before the court case saying that in his view, ACAS should be recognised. Is there not one man to be found on the Opposition Benches who will stand up and say this this afternoon.

Order. Before I call the Private Notice question—[Interruption.]

Am I right, Mr. Speaker, in thinking that the ACAS Report is in dispute and that the matter is before the court and has been set down for hearing?

rose——

Order. The right hon. Lady is quite correct. As I said in my ruling last week, any reference to the ACAS position would be out of order because the matter is sub judice.

Are you aware, Mr. Speaker, that the question that I asked the Leader of the Opposition was whether she supported the management of Grunwick in dismissing workers who join a trade union? That has nothing to do with recognition.

Answer!

Order. Before I call the Private Notice Question, let me remind the House that it is concerned solely with the Post Office side.