asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection what arrangements are being made for the alteration of petrol pump prices following the reduction of excise duty in August.

Under the Price Code, the reduction of excise duty on 8th August has to be passed on in full in lower price. Any complaints of dealers taking unfair advantage of the motoring public will be carefully investigated. The Petrol Prices (Display) Order, which comes into effect on 12th August, will also protect motorists' interests by requiring prices to be clearly displayed.

How does the Under-Secretary propose to overcome the danger of some petrol pumps running dry at the end of next week because small garages will not be prepared to hold supplies at the higher rate of duty in order to sell at the low rate?

It was with that possible problem in mind that an amendment to the Finance Bill was passed postponing by three days the implementation of the reduction in excise duty—which I am sure the hon. Member will welcome —to a period after the holiday.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that, following the conversion of petrol pumps to litres, confusion arose precisely as I predicted when the Government first embarked on their metrication programme? Does he agree that that confusion is likely to increase as the Government are not doing sufficient to protect consumers in this respect?

The only confusion appears to be in the mind of the hon. Lady. She does her best to obscure the clear on every possible occasion.

Can the Under-Secretary confirm that the arrangements are no different from those which apply when there is a rise in the cost of petrol? Is he satisfied that there is no reason for any shortage at this time?

I believe that the postponement will help to obviate that possibility.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection if he will make a further statement about petrol price display.

The Petrol Prices (Display) Order 1977 was laid before the House on 30th June and will come into operation on 12th August 1977. We shall, of course, watch to see the effects of the order.

Will my hon. Friend take a closer look at the way in which the order is to operate? At the moment there is a jungle. There is complete confusion on the forecourts of petrol stations, with ridiculous prices such as 84.9p per gallon. How can one pay ·9p? is not some protection needed in this regard?

The order will not only cover displays outside forecourts but will require the display of information on or near the pumps themselves. As to the percentage point of a penny, when we made the Petrol Prices (Display) Order we had no powers to ban petrol price displays giving fractions of a penny, because the power is contained in the Price Commission Act, but we shall watch the operation of the order carefully.

When the order starts, it will be quite difficult for consumers to see prices clearly displayed on the new modern pumps, particularly the electronic ones, and this will undo for the consumer the good effects of the fall in petrol prices. Will the Minister pay particular attention to this?

I have already paid particular attention to it. Electronic pumps will have to show the maximum price per gallon being charged to the consumer as well as give an indication on the pricing indicator on the pump.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection if he will refer to the Price Commission the level of prices charged by retailers for fresh vegetables and salad ingredients.

As part of its standing reference on fresh food prices, the Price Commission already monitors the prices and distributors' margins of potatoes and other vegetables the prices of which were forced up by the effects of last summer's drought. This exercise will continue until it is clear that supplies have returned to normal and that prices reflect this.

Does my hon. Friend agree that somebody is not getting to the truth in this matter? Is he aware that until recently farmers were receiving 1p or 2p for lettuces which were being sold at between 10p and 13p in the shops? Does he agree that daylight robbery is taking place and that neither the growers nor the consumers are benefiting? Will he ask the Price Commission to sort this out? Is he aware that when there is a drought it is given as the reason for price increases but that when we have a glut prices do not come down? That is not acceptable.

It would be unacceptable if prices did not come down when producers' prices were falling, but the price of lettuces today is 9p or 10p cheaper than it was two months ago.

So it should be.

It takes time fully to analyse distributors' margins. I believe that the Price Commission's standing reference will cover the anxieties raised by my hon. Friend.

If the Under-Secretary wishes to help concerning the retailing of lettuces, he should look at the Covent Garden Market Authority. Does he think it fair that the entrance charge to Covent Garden has gone up from 20p to £1—an increase of 500 per cent.—in the last few months? Does not that prove that the Government do not care about distribution costs?

If the hon. Member has a serious point to make, I shall consider it.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the wholesaling of fruit and vegetables escapes weights and measures legislation? Does he not agree that that is bizarre? Is he aware that today I have sent him a list which makes it clear that there are considerable discrepancies? Does he accept that if he does not instigate a full inquiry he will be failing in his duty?

I shall look carefully at the figures which my hon. Friend has sent to me. I hope she will accept that the Price Commission is already seized of the question of distributors' margins. As the Price Commission's report shows, there is no evidence to suggest that there is profiteering of the kind which she has suggested.

That report is two months old.

My hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Scunthorpe (Mr. Ellis) has rightly drawn attention to the fact that the Price Commission's report relates to a situation which is some weeks out of date. My hon. Friends will be aware that our powers under the new legislation will be considerably greater than they are at present. I am proposing to discuss with the new Price Commission whether it is possible to improve and speed up the mechanism for examining distributors' margins.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that the real need in this matter is for an investigation into the whole mechanism of sale? There are innumerable stages before the produce reaches the customer. The whole thing is a racket, with people cashing in at every stage.

I am not sure that my hon. Friend is right in saying that what is needed is an investigation. I believe that what is needed is power to act on a recommendation from the Price Commission. That is why the House has passed the Price Commission Act. I believe that investigations carried out under these standing references may in future lead to more results than is the case in the present situation.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection which commercial activities have led to the greatest number of complaints at consumer advice centres in the last 12 months.

The information available does not separately indentify consumer complaints made to consumer advice centres. Details of complaints received by a number of advice services, including these centres, are provided in the latest annual report of the Director General of Fair Trading which was laid before the House on 10th March. The greatest number of complaints were about motor vehicles, followed by clothing and furniture.

In the light of those figures, what does my hon. Friend propose to do about the appalling situation in which there is such a high level of consumer complaints about cars in particular?

The Director General has brought about a voluntary code of practice, but I am afraid that many car dealers, particularly second-hand dealers, do not subscribe to it. I have made some suggestions about a possible system of licensing or regulation of those carrying on trade like this in order that we may secure better protection for the public. In the case of the other complaints, the use of our existing labelling requirements and the use of regulations made under them may be a useful avenue.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection what is the current percentage rate of increase in the retail price index.

The latest figure available is the increase for June, published on 14th July. It was 1 per cent., well in line with the forecast that the rate of inflation will begin to decline in the autumn.

Is it not a fact that year upon year to last month the retail price index has gone up by 17·7 per cent.? Is not that deplorable figure higher than in any other industrialised country? Is it not the case that the true figure for inflation over the past year would be still some points higher, nearer the wholesale price index increase of 20·9 per cent.?

It is a fact that year on year the index went up by 17·7 per cent. It is not a fact that the true rate of inflation is even higher. That selective figure is normally offered by the Opposition on a different Question and I have no doubt that the hon. Member for Gloucester (Mrs. Oppenheim) will want to make her prejudiced point on Question No. 7.

Is it not a fact that one of the longest sittings of this House was because of the attitude of the Opposition in opposing any form of price control? Is it not therefore deplorable that we should have such two-faced Questions from the Opposition when they are not in favour of any form of price control? Does not my right hon. Friend agree that he has to be successful in his policy because it has such a vital contribution to make to the next round of wage bargaining?

It is widely understood in the country that the Opposition fought the Price Commission Bill in this House and subsequently in the House of Lords for so long because of their determination to have no form of price control at all. I noticed the references in every newspaper to the cheers which went up from the Opposition on the second day of the Report stage in this House when the prospect was mooted that the Bill might be lost. If we are to have a prosperous economy in the years to come, we need a moderated price prospect, just as we need a moderated wages prospect. These two factors influence each other, and we must therefore play our full part in bringing that situation about.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that, despite the social contract, subsidies, the Price Commission Act and other various and assorted gimmicks, even if single-figure inflation is reached next year prices will have risen by 100 per cent. under this Government? That is a matter for the deepest shame and not for the kind of boasting that he has brought to the House today.

I am grateful to have got the supplementary question on Question No. 7 earlier. The hon. Lady must understand that, in common with every other industrialised country, the United Kingdom suffered the major disadvantage of an oil price increase two years ago, with a number of economic disadvantages flowing from that. In the last two years we have made substantial strides in improving the economy. After all the depressing things that the hon. Lady has said about what has happened over the last two years, I look forward to seeing her at that Box after Christmas rejoicing with me about the fall in the rate of inflation which will have come about.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection what has been the percentage increase in the cost of living during the past 12 months at the latest available date; what were the figures on the corresponding date for the two previous years; and what action he is taking to bring the future percentage down.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection whether he will give the three-monthly increase in the retail price index expressed at an annual rate.

The percentage increase in the cost of living over the 12 months to June 1977, as measured by the retail price index, was 17·7 per cent. In the 12 months to June 1975 and June 1976 it was 26.·1 and 13·8 per cent. respectively. The most recent three-monthly increase is 4·4 per cent. to June 1977. For what it is worth, this gives a figure of 19 per cent. on an annualised basis. As I have already said, the rate of inflation is expected to fall substantially in the months ahead, as foreshadowed in the Chancellor's forecasts. The measures announced by the Chancellor on 15th July and the Price Commission Act will reinforce this expected deceleration.

I thank my right hon. Friend for giving so much information. Is he satisfied that he has sufficient powers further to reduce the cost of living? Is it not true that he can prevent prices from increasing in certain circumstances but that he cannot compel wholesalers and retailers to reduce them? Will he do something about the cost of frozen chips? Is he aware that when potatoes cost £200 a ton the cost of frozen chips went up correspondingly but that since the price of potatoes has come down to £100 a ton and less the price of frozen chips has remained at the higher figure?

On the general point, I am satisfied that the new powers in the Price Commission Act which come into force on 1st August will be a substantial help in the fight that we are trying to wage, and in certain circumstances we expect a reduction in prices. A general reference from me about prices in a whole sector could result in prices over a wide range of products being reduced if the Price Commission so recommended.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that there is not much that the Government can do further to reduce prices, because they have not been coming down at all over the past three years? Secondly, can he tell the House why other countries do not appear to have suffered as much as we have from rising prices, and whether it is the Government's aim to reduce our level of price increases to that of our international competitors?

The power to reduce specific prices exists in the Price Commission Act. Our inflation rate has been at a high level compared with our industrial competitors for a variety of reasons. We have been more vulnerable to outside pressures and to pressure on sterling than have most other European and North Atlantic countries. However, thanks to the efforts of the Government, sterling is now stable, and that is why there is a better price prospect for 1978.

How does my right hon. Friend work out tie percentage increase in the cost of living. in which the price of beer is an ingredient, when no two pubs charge the same price and when the cost of a pint of beer varies enormously, even in one street?

The calculation of the RPI is a technical matter. I should be ruled out of order if I were to try to describe it in the next 20 minutes, but it is statistically accurate. It is not a perfect pattern of spending for every family, but it is an indication of how prices have risen in the recent past.

With inflation-proofed pensions, with an index-linked savings scheme, with index-linked welfare benefits and now with index-linked personal tax allowances, does not the right hon. Gentleman get the feeling that he is fighting a losing battle against inflation? Is not there a danger that increasing income without controlling wage costs and import prices is inflationary?

No, Sir. With the monthly increase in the index at 1 per cent. or less for six out of eight months, I sometimes get the feeling that we are winning the battle against inflation.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection what increase in the retail price index over the last 12 months has resulted from the common agricultural policy of the European Community.

Roughly one-half of 1 per cent.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give that figure the maximum possible publicity and inform the Secretary of State for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, who does not seem to have got the message?

He is the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, and he was the first to quote statistics very similar to those that I have given. Not only has my right hon. Friend got the message, but he has helped to bring about this situation. It is because of the way in which he has negotiated in Brussels that prices in this country have been kept down in the way that they have.

As so many essential foods can be bought more cheaply outside the Common Market, the figure that my right hon. Friend has given will be treated with considerable scepticism by most housewives.

It will be treated with disbelief by those who do not want to believe it. I think that my hon. Friend needs to provide much more convincing evidence than has been provided so far that substantial savings in food prices are to be achieved by buying cheap food from outside the Community. The evidence is that if the cheap food exists at all it does not exist in quantities that would radically change the British spending picture.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the prices of animal feeding stuffs are coming down for the first time for many months, and does he expect that trend to continue?

I need notice of that question to be able to answer it.

So that we may assess the significance of the ½ per cent. to which the right hon. Gentleman referred, will he circulate in the Official Report what prices he thinks would have been paid for temperate foodstuffs which are important to this country if Britain had been out-side the EEC for the period under review?

I do not think that it is possible with any statistical legitimacy to describe what prices I think might have been paid in different circumstances. What I shall do, as I have done already for some sceptics, is to describe publicly the statistical method that brought about this figure. I cannot remember whether I described it in individual letters or in the Official Report, but I shall do so in the Official Report in future if I have not done it already.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that if the green pound had been revalued along the lines suggested by Conservative Members the rise in the cost of living would have been considerably greater than has been the case? Is it not therefore hypocritical of right hon. and hon. Members opposite to criticise what has been done by the Government in this respect?

Of course. Had the green pound been changed in value to represent the normal value of the pound against the dollar, the picutre would have been substantially different. That is why am sure we are right to insist that the only possible devaluation is one that is matched by other benefits to the British consumer and why the attitude of right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite differs from price debates to common agricultural policy debates.

Does the compilation by the statistical department of the figure given by the right hon. Gentlemen include such things as the cost of all the intervention stores, the food thrown away through failing to meet the size set by the Brussels bureaucracy, an apportionment of the overheads of the Common Market bureaucracy and the cost of not buying cheaper food where it exists outside the Market? Is all that included?

Of course.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection whether he will institute an inquiry into the prices charged by motorway service stations.

I shall consider this.

Is not my hon. Friend aware that this scandal has been going on over the years and that it is about time something was done about it? Does not he agree that, in the virtual monopoly situation that appertains at present, the people who need this protection are those who use these service stations? Should he eventually come round to the idea of an investigation, will he look into prices and conditions in the restaurants and cafeterias as well as at the petrol pumps? Will he also consult the Secretary of State for Transport on the question of the concessions to the various firms on the motorways?

It is with those points in mind that I am considering seriously and urgently the possibility of a reference to the Price Commission.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that after the major oil compaines had reduced petrol prices by 3p, sometimes as much as a fortnight afterwards certain service stations, using their monopoly position, had still not reduced their prices to the consumer? If there is to be a monopoly, the Government must control it. I would prefer to see more competition. In the circumstances, will the hon. Gentleman consider whether more than one supplier should be granted a licence when the applications for motorway petrol licences are made? After all, six or seven different petrols are being sold and more than one supplier should be licensed.

The method of granting licences is for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport, but I take the point about the importance and desirability of competition. That is likewise a factor that we have in mind.

Will the hon. Gentleman change the tense of his answer from "shall consider" to "am considering"? Is it not the case that his right hon. Friend wrote to me last week saying that he was already considering it? Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that all the factors of scale and distribution costs are in favour of a lower petrol price on motorways than in small, more widely-flung stations? How many companies are involved in providing these services? What is the duration of the franchise in each case, and how often are the franchises renewed?

Perhaps I can amend my answer to say that the possibility of an inquiry is under consideration. The hon. Gentleman has reflected the anxiety of both sides of the House about this matter, and it would be into precisely the sort of points he has raised that any inquiry carried out by the Price Commission would focus.

As well as instituting an inquiry, should not my hon. Friend consider giving a warning to motorists that they can expect this sort of thing on motorways? For example, many people travelling on motorways at holiday times are not used to motorway prices. Should not motorists be recommended to fill up before they get on to a motorway? Would not this contribute to a fall in prices on motorways?

I am sure that my hon. Friend's advice will be widely noted.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection if he will instruct the assay offices to hallmark articles submitted for hall-marking in the position requested by the sponsors rather than at the discretion of the assay offices.

The assay offices are autonomous bodies and I have no powers to issue such an instruction. I understand that the assay offices try to meet sponsored requests for the placing of hall- marks, but there are sometimes practical or technical reasons why this cannot be done. Anyone who has a specific complaint against any assay office may bring it to the attention of the British Hall-marking Council, which has a statutory duty to supervise the activities of the offices.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that individual craftsmen sometimes have difficulty with assay offices? Is it not necessary to distinguish between the work load provided by craftsmen and the industrial work load? Is he aware that the three days' delay at the assay offices in 1975 was aceptable but that it is now 18 days for silver, and that when marking individual craft-made items great difficulties are encountered?

I understand the difficulties of marking. What I think I might do to help the hon. and learned Gentleman is to ask the Chairman of the Hallmarking Council to see me to discuss this and other problems raised in hon. Members' correspondence.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that when the new legislation was going through the House as a Private Members' Bill the assay offices gave an assurance that they would do everything possible to co-operate in hallmarking in the future? However, because of the Jubilee hallmarking there has been a major demand, which has been greater than the assay offices could possibly have expected.

I understand that there has been a demand due to the Jubilee, but perhaps that that might have been anticipated. Secondly, I understand that in the placing of hallmarks the assay offices have to take into account the preventing of fraud, not by the producer but subsequent fraud, and that is one consideration in placing the hallmark.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection whether he will give the latest recorded percentage increase in food prices since February 1974.

Excluding seasonal foods, the retail food index has increased by 86 per cent. from February 1974 to June 1977, or 20·5 per cent. expressed at an annual rate. Over the same period, the figure including seasonal food is 92 per cent. or 21·6 per cent. at an annual rate.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that these are appalling figures for the British housewife? Will he admit that part of the reason for them is the low sterling rate that we get, especially when dealing with those countries from which we purchase a good deal of our food supplies? Does he agree that this is entirely due to the Government's economic policies and is he aware that it is no good the Secretary of State saying that sterling is doing much better when it is at such an appallingly low rate?

The stabilisation of sterling is a factor that will lead to a deceleration in the rate of increase of food prices. The latest picture is quite encouraging. The retail food index increased by 4·4 per cent. in the three months up to June, and that is a marked improvement compared with the 5·6 per cent. increase in the three previous months. In addition, none of this improvement takes account of recent substantial falls in the price of fresh fruit and vegetables.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the increase in food prices caused by our membership of the Common Market is cumulative and that the price increases referred to earlier have been superimposed on other and deliberate price increases? Does he agree that it is inevitable that prices will continue to increase?

It is inevitable that prices will continue to increase, but not at the rate that they have increased during the past year, when they were severely adversely affected first by drought, the effects of which have virtually worked through, and then by the fall in the value of sterling last autumn.

As the Question refers to February 1974, does the hon. Gentleman remember fighting the General Election on the slogan that the Labour Government and the social contract would reduce inflation? Did the social contract fail, or was the Labour Party misleading people?

The Labour Party fought that General Election on policies that included the introduction of food subsidies, which the Opposition have consistently opposed and continue to oppose.

For the purposes of comparison, can my hon. Friend tell us how much of the increase since February 1974 has been due to our membership of the EEC and how much to the fall in the value of the pound?

As my right hon. Friend has already said, the further we get from the date of entry, the more difficult it becomes to calculate what prices would be if we were not members of the EEC. However, it is possible to calculate the additional increase in prices that is directly attributable to CAP adjustments and changes this year. That is the figure,·5 per cent., to which my right hon. Friend referred earlier.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection whether he remains satisfied with the machinery available to his Department for monitoring the level of food prices.

I am satisfied that the retail food index provides an accurate and up-to-date indicator of movements in food prices. Where closer scrutiny appears necessary, the Price Commission is asked to carry out investigations of prices and distributors' margins for specific foodstuffs.

Was it that machinery, among others, that produced the statistics showing that in the year ended in May the cost of living had risen by 17·1 per cent., giving us the biggest gap between that and earnings since records started? What proportion of that 17·1 per cent. is due to increases in food prices?

The machinery for collecting the retail price index is the machinery that gave us the figures for the latest monthly change in the index.

Since my hon. Friend said earlier that he would refer particular items to the Price Commission, will he consider referring the price of bread, since the Safeguard Britain Committee recently stated that, according to its calculations, the increased levy on grain from North America had put 7p on the price of a loaf? In order to get the facts straight, will my hon. Friend refer that matter to the Price Commission?

The bread industry has been subjected to a number of inquiries recently, including one by the Monopolies and Mergers Commission, which has just published its report. The major bread manufacturing companies are subject to the control of the Price Commission under the new Price Commission Act. The three major companies will have to pre-notify proposed price increases, and in the past the Commission has not hesitated to reduce the proposed increases if it has felt that they are not justified.

What, in the opinion of the Government, would be the effect on the levels of prices, employment and investment if the Price Commission were abolished forthwith?

The effect would be exceedingly adverse, because there would be no guarantee that unjustified price increases would not be made by companies enjoying monopolistic or oligopolistic positions in the market.

May I refer to my hon. Friend's original answer? Does he recognise that the earlier exchanges about fresh fruit and vegetables indicated that the Price Commission's methods of monitoring, particularly on seasonal foods, cannot be effective if it is not producing reports until two months after the prices have been paid?

As I indicated earlier, I propose to discuss with the new Commission the question of the time lag between its examination of prices and the publication of its reports on standing references. My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the rapid fluctuations that occur in prices, largely because of changing supplies. Is it important to ensure that the consumer enjoys the benefit of the producer's reduced costs.

Will the hon. Gentleman comment on the Price Commission's report on coffee, bearing in mind his statement that the consumer should benefit from any reduction in costs? Does he think that the distribution of coffee will be maintained if, as is proposed, there is intervention in the distributors' margins for the sale of coffee? As the report exonerated those who trade in coffee from profiteering, is this the way that he expects the Price Commission to operate in future? What will happen to the distributive margin policy if coffee prices come down?

I notice that the hon. Gentleman was careful to refrain from saying that the Opposition approve of price control where cash margins would be increased. It would be helpful if they would make clear their position on this matter. It was made abundantly clear by the Price Commission that because of increases in the gross percentage margins the cash margins had widened considerably. That is why my right hon. Friend announced measures to control the cash margins on the pound of coffee that the housewife has to buy. As for the hon. Gentleman's question whether the Price Commission's action on this matter portends its future action, it is up to the Commission, following reference by my right hon. Friend of a particular price or sector, to make its examination and to recommend proposals, which can include a freeze on cash margins or the setting of maximum prices.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection what was the latest recorded percentage increase in the year-on-year wholesale prices index.

The wholesale prices index of the output of manufacturing industry rose by 20·9 per cent. in the year ending June 1977, but the index for inputs of materials and fuel rose by 15·.2 per cent.—about half of the January figure.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when the year-on-year increase was last in single figures?

Not without notice, but I can repeat the last part of my original reply. There has been a substantial improvement in the index, and we hope and believe that it will soon be reflected in prices in the shops.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection if he will now require hire-purchase companies to disclose the real rate of interest which they charge.

The stautory formula employed where interest rates are shown in current hire-purchase advertisements gives only an approximation. I am having consultations about new regulations under the Consumer Credit Act which will apply to all types of credit and which for the first time will allow consumers to compare the effective annual percentage rate of charge of all kinds of credit transactions.

Is my hon. Friend aware that his reply will be received with satisfaction, as it is really very important that consumers should be in a position to make sensible comparisons, but will he ensure that his new regulations receive adequate publicity?

I am glad that my hon. Friend gives a welcome to the proposed new regulations. I shall certainly do what I did on the last occasion and give as much publicity as possible, with explanatory leaflets, so that traders and the public can understand the regulations.

In the light of the Price Commission's report on the sale of commercial hearing aids, which showed that the majority were bought on hire purchase on the doorstep and that the cost of production is £22 and the selling price £140, will my hon. Friend have a special look at the way in which the credit terms are made known to elderly people? Will he also look at the margin of £120 between the cost of production and the selling price?

The matter of cost does not arise from the Question, but if my hon. Friend has complaints about the selling practices and the credit practices of any companies, which may be relevant to the licensing of those companies this year, perhaps he will give any appropriate information to the Director General of Fair Trading.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection whether citizens' advice bureaux are to be encouraged to expand their service in giving consumer advice or whether it is his policy that they should disband these in favour of local authority advice centres.

I consider both types of service to be extremely valuable and complementary. That is why my Department is this year providing grants totalling £4·5 million towards the work of both citizens' advice bureaux and consumer advice centres.

In view of the large figure that the Minister has mentioned, may I ask him whether he is aware that the grant to the citizens' advice bureaux ends in April 1979 and that at this point of time they have no knowledge whether their work in this sector can continue?

My Department is in close consultation with the citizens' advice bureaux about the amount of the grant after 1979 and will give the matter very serious consideration, because the bureaux do a very valuable job of work for the general public.

Is the Minister satisfied that his undertaking to give that degree of financial support for consumer advice centres will be enough to deter the now too numerous Tory authorities from closing down large numbers of consumer advice centres and thereby sabotaging our efforts to control prices?

I must exonerate many Conservative authorities which have a good record on consumer advice centres. I should be sorry to see the centres become a political football. I deplore what has happened in Birmingham. I have spoken to the chairman of the appropriate committee, but the authority still seems bent on closing every conceivable advice centre. It would be extremely valuable if we could have a word from the hon. Member for Gloucester (Mrs. Oppenheim) encouraging her colleagues in the West Midlands at least to think twice before cutting, in an almost vandalistic way, an extremely valuable service to the citizens of the country.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection whether he will legislate to require all prices to be shown inclusive of VAT.

This question has been the subject of a very full and helpful report by the Consumer Protection Advisory Committee, published a few days ago, which substantially endorsed the proposals put forward by the Director General of Fair Trading. I am urgently considering the report and hope shortly to announce the action I propose to take on it.

May I say how very welcome that announcement will be and that one hopes that the action which my hon. Friend proposes to take will be taken very swiftly? In the meantime, will he advise traders to include VAT in the total price shown? In so far as they see fit to show VAT separately, will he advise them to ensure that the words "plus VAT" are given in large letters and to state the percentage of VAT which will be added?

I should be very happy to offer that advice. I think that most traders follow it. A minority does not follow it. That ought to lead to legislation under, I think, Part II of the Fair Trading Act 1973.

Is it not interesting that recommended retail prices were not required to be inclusive of VAT, and is not this additional evidence that recommended retail prices are a valuable point of reference to the prospective purchaser and are in general well understood by the consumer?

I do not think that advertising a maker's recommended prices exclusive of VAT is of any use to anyone, but that is the view that the CPAC took of it and, therefore, I must accept it.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection how long he expects the Monopolies Commission to take to report on credit cards.

This reference, which was made by the Director General of Fair Trading on 23rd June, requires the Commission to report within 18 months.

I thank my hon. Friend for that answer, but will he not consider ensuring that the Monopolies Commission looks at the rate of interest charged to credit card holders, which is currently 26·82 per cent., or does he think that the publicity given to the real rate of interest, following the extension of the Consumer Credit Act, will be sufficient to discourage potential customers?

I think it is probably within the terms of reference of the Monopolies Commission to look at the rate of interest being charged. I suppose it is the hope of all of us that, following the very welcome reduction in interest rates brought about by the Government, the credit card companies might follow that Government example.

Is it the Government's policy that the Monopolies Commission should be encouraged to look at foreign-owned credit cards as well as at our own domestic credit cards?

I am not certain, but I rather believe that the reference would include those companies as well.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection what reply he has sent to any representations from the British Standards Institution concerning the proposed international 16-amp plug and socket system.

Government comments have been sent to the British Standards Institution by my Department on proposals leading to a voluntary international standard for a new and unique system of electrical plugs and sockets. These proposals, although fundamental, do not specify a complete system, and until full details of this are available the Government cannot endorse their formal acceptance.

Does the Minister understand that even the prospect of a voluntary system for operating some of the proposals which have been made public is arousing deep misgiving among the British public, and particularly among people who have ring mains? Will he let the House know his views on whether any future standards should involve fusing for each plug? Has he any plans for displaying to the public some of the proposals relating to this voluntary system, whatever his views may be about them?

It is a proposed voluntary international standard, and the proposals are at such an early stage that it is too soon to make any judgment at all about fusing, integration with ring main circuits and so on. It is such a long way off that I must reserve my position until I can see in detail how the international standard works out.

Is the Minister aware that some of those who are not enthusiastic above the common Market, are trying to persuade the public that all the latest 13 amp systems in this country are out of date? Will the Minister make it clear that they are not?

They are not out of date. If this country were to adopt the new system, it would not come into general use for 60 or 70 years.

asked the Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection whether he will seek to change the delaying powers of the Price Commission during investigations from preventing increases until approved to permitting until disapproved.

No, Sir. The hon. Member's suggestion was specifically rejected by the Standing Committee on the Price Commission Bill on 17th May. The power to freeze prices during investigation is justified and will not jeopardise the viability of firms under investigation.

Is the Minister aware that, while it may not jeopardise the viability of firms under investigation, the price in the small firms sector is determined by the price leaders in the market, and that what may enable a large firm to go on trading semi-economically will bankrupt a small firm and lead to unemployment?

The Chairman-designate of the Price Commission made very clear at his first Press conference that he believed that investigations into each company had to bear in mind the interests of other companies that might be directly affected in the way that the hon. Gentleman has stated. I have no reason to believe that the exercise of proper powers by the Commission would have the adverse effect that the hon. Gentleman proposes.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the action of the brewery companies in proposing to increase their prices by 1p or 2p a pint before publication of the Price Commission's report or before prices legislation constitutes sharp practice? What can my right hon. Friend do to stop the brewers acting in this irresponsible fashion?

I have no power to prevent the increases that the brewers announced. Some people say that they did it because they do it every three months and it is their normal practice. I await the Price Commission's report with great interest, and I hope that the House may want to return to this subject after the report has been presented to me and when I have seen its recommendations, if any.

In relation to the question of my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mr. Mitchell), will the Secretary of State comment on the question of allowable costs being allowed in the period of investigation? This would substantially help small firms and firms uder investigation.

No. There are substantial safeguards already for the viability of small firms. There are the formal safeguards under Section 9 of the new Act. There are other safeguards—for instance, the safeguards inherent in Section 2. Neither the company under investigation nor companies with which it is associated face the danger that the Opposition pretend. It is much more of a political debating point than a real fear of industry.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether, in his capacity as special adviser to the Prime Minister on economic matters, he will make a statement on his meetings with his EEC colleagues at the end of June.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether, in his capacity of special adviser on economic matters, he will make a statement on his meetings with his EEC colleagues at the end of June.

I had no meetings with EEC colleagues at the end of June.

If the right hon. Gentleman had had such meetings, would he have drawn the attention of his colleagues to the imbalance between the level of public expenditure in the United Kingdom and the level of public expenditure in the other countries of the Community? If he had done so, would he have acknowledged his own repentance in that the Government are now committed to a continuing and substantial reduction in the resources required for public expenditure in the next few years?

Any educational activity that I might have been tempted to pursue in relation to the size of public expenditure I should have focused where it was most clearly needed—namely, on the Opposition Benches. Public expenditure in this country is not at all out of line with the level of public expenditure in other countries of the European Community. Public expendture is not ex hypothesi a bad thing. It is a good thing in principle if it is wisely and in proper proportion directed. It is the Government's intention to continue wise public expenditure and to have due regard to the proportions and timing of that public expenditure.

In the course of the right hon. Gentleman's many informal meetings with his colleagues on the Continent, is he able to convince his EEC colleagues that Britain is ready to embrace the European cause? Does he believe that himself? If so, when will he start to convince those of his Cabinet colleagues —one of whom is sitting close to him on the Government Front Bench—who voted against the direct elections Bill?

I do not regard it as my function specifically to assert the right direction that any of my right hon. Friends embraces. Other members of the Community have recognised that there is a genuine difference of opinion on both sides of this House about the wisdom and attractions of being members of the Community. They recognise that and also recognise that the overwhelming majority of Members on both sides—in aggregate at any rate—fully recognise that we have joined the Community and that we are determined to make a success of our membership as a loyal, if critically constructive, member of the Community.

In any discussions that my right hon. Friend has with his EEC colleagues, will he emphasise the importance of expanding resources for the IMF, particularly with a view to helping developing countries with balance of payments problems?

Yes, Sir. I think that it is of great importance for the general prosperity of the world and the fuller recovery of the world from the present recession that we should advance our co-operative thinking in precisely those areas.

Reverting to the question asked about public expenditure, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman to confirm that the borrowing requirement in the current financial year is approximately the same proportion of the GNP as it was in the last year of the last Conservative Government? Will he confirm that public expenditure in this country is not a higher proportion of GNP than in most of the OECD countries? Will he also categorically state that, unless private investment takes up the slack and brings down unemployment, some Government will have to increase public investment?

There is a very natural reticence on this side of the House, especially in my case, to emphasise those areas —whether it be the weather or proportions of public expenditure—which in the case of my Government resemble what happened under the Conservative Government. When I said "my Government" it was intended as shorthand to mean the Government of which I have the privilege to be a member. I have already answered the point about the proportion of public expenditure. On investment, I am absolutely clear that there is plenty of scope for useful public investment in the nationalised and publicly-controlled industries. I am also clear that we will get ample investment in the private sector if the conditions favouring successful investment in that sector exist.

Does my right hon. Friend agree with the recommendations of the TUC Economic Committee apropos public expenditure, warning that indiscriminate cutting of public expenditure could have disastrous effects on prices and employment? Does my right hon. Friend further agree that these are the sort of things that he should be talking about to his EEC colleagues because they are recommendations from people who know far more about industry and finance than do many Opposition Members?

I am very much opposed to any indiscriminate cutting of public expenditure. It is not necessary to discuss this with my EEC colleagues.

In the right hon. Gentleman's role as special economic adviser, will he use all his authority and influence to support those in the Council of Ministers who are resisting the grotesquely inflated budget for the Common Market which has been proposed by the Commission, even if in so doing he treads on the sensitive corns of Commissioner Jenkins?

I was not aware until the hon. Gentleman mentioned it that Commissioner Jenkins—or President Jenkins—had any specially sensitive portions of his anatomy that I should avoid. I shall always support my colleagues in constructive and useful contributions to the EEC.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he will list his official engagements for 25th July.

Apart from my duties in this House, I have meetings today with ministerial colleagues and with officials.

Will my right hon. Friend make a statement about his attitude towards the TUC-Labour Party working group proposals for a wealth tax? As my right hon. Friend appears to be the Government's tax consultant, will he advise the Treasury to implement this proposal, which would bring in about £550 million from very rich people such as Sir Hugh Fraser, the Shadow Secretary of State for Prices and Consumer Protection—the hon. Lady the Member for Gloucester (Mrs. Oppenheim)—and the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster?

I have not had the advantage that my hon. Friend has obviously had of being privy to these secret and valuable discussions. I assure him that I shall react to them on their merits. I shall give them such support as they deserve.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Have you had any request from the Chancellor of the Exchequer to make a statement today about the large issue of faulty Treasury notes by the Bank of England?

No, I have not.