asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is satisfied with the work of the Scottish Development Agency in creating employment opportunities in Scotland.

Before I answer, perhaps I may be permitted—as is appropriate on this first Scottish Question time—to say how much all of us on both sides of the House very much regret the passing of Willie Small, who has been our friend and colleague for many years. His considerable industrial experience in the West of Scotland has been of great value to Scottish Ministers. The commonsense advice that he gave us both publicly and privately will be sorely missed. He was a man of great sincerity and integrity and he had a very finely tuned sense of humour. His witty interventions in the House often brought hon. Members and Ministers down to earth. I join with you, Mr. Speaker, in expressing our sincere condolences to Mrs. Small and her family at this time of bereavement.

Is the Minister of State aware of a letter which I wrote to the Secretary of State for Scotland in which I drew attention to the investment by the Scottish Development Agency in the firm Highlands Metals Limited, of Elgin? Is he aware that many people in Hereford feel strongly that public money should not he used to create jobs which will lead to job losses in Hereford? Does he agree that the industry in which the investment was made was oversubscribed? May we have an assurance that the Minister will stop further development of this type? Will he ensure that no further nonsensical investments of this kind occur?

The hon. Member was kind enough to write to me about this matter. The SDA is not directly managed by me, nor would I wish to be. It exercises its own commercial judgment. I know that it carries out certain studies and makes projections in the market. It is right that it should be free to do this work if it believes that there is a market. I understand that, particularly in oil-related industry, there is a need for business of this kind. It is rather surprising that a Conservative Member should express a fear of competition.

rose—

On a point of order. I am not at all happy with the Minister's answer. I give notice that I shall seek to raise the question on the Adjournment.

The hon. Member has effectively cut out any further supplementaries to his Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is satisfied with steps being taken to reduce the level of the Scottish prison population.

As indicated in the Queen's Speech, my right hon. Friend is contemplating legislation on criminal matters in Scotland. It is hoped to include in the legislation measures aimed at reducing the prison population.

On behalf of myself and my colleagues, I wish to express agreement with the Minister's comments about the passing of Willie Small. I am sure that the whole House regrets his passing.

There are various ways of using figures. On any day of the week no more than 4 per cent. of the prison population is there because of non-payment of fines. Such prisoners seldom spend more than one day in prison. Those who do spend more than one day in prison are very few indeed. That is not to say that we do not recognise that there is a problem. It would be wise for the House to await the publication of the legislative proposals to which I referred earlier.

On behalf of myself and my colleagues, may I express our regret at the passing of Willie Small? We shall miss his friendly personality in the House.

It is fair to say that the numbers of social workers employed in the Scottish prison service have increased. I do not want to give the impression that the prison population is increasing. It is falling, although by small numbers. The average daily population is smaller than it has been for some years. We are therefore not altogether unsuccessful. The legislative proposals that we publish will be designed to achieve even greater success.

I welcome the possibility of new legislation on prison reform. However, will my hon. Friend pay attention to the question of the numbers who go to prison for non-payment of fines? The number involved may appear small, but when the all-party group met prison officers it was told that one of the most irritating parts of their job was the long process of introducing persons into prison, recording all the details and taking all the other necessary steps, only to find, when the process was completed, that the fine had been paid and the work had been wasted.

My hon. Friend has made a substantial point. There is no difference in terms of what the prison officer has to do on admissions to prison, whether the offence is of non-payment of a fine or one in respect of where the person concerned has to serve a sentence. We recognise this fact and it is being considered in our proposals for legislation.

Order. I shall ask hon. Members to put briefer questions, so that we may have briefer replies and in that way make much better progress.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the recent closedown of an advanced gas-cooled reactor at Hunterston and what are the consequences for the Scottish electricity generation programme.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply which my right hon. Friend gave to the hon. Member for Bedford (Mr. Skeet) and my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Mr. Hooley) on 15th December. The South of Scotland Electricity Board does not expect to encounter any difficulty, as a result of the incident at Hunterston, in meeting the demand for electricity.

In that event, will the Minister of State indicate whether the Government intend to Dress forward with the Craigroyston pumped storage project before the use of the Torness site? If the Government intend to use the Torness site, will there be a fresh public inquiry, because the previous public inquiry related to the SGHW reactor?

The North of Scotland Hydro-Electric Board has not as yet put forward specific proposals to me or my Department on the Craigroyston project. I know that it is discussing the matter with many of the local people concerned and that it is listening to their views. On Torness, until the Government have decided on the type of reactor to be built it would be precipitate to make any announcement on the question of a planning inquiry.

Are the reports correct that, in spite of the availability of electricity from other sources, those other sources are more expensive, and that the accident at Hunterston will therefore result in a substantial increase in the price of electricity in Scotland?

Electricity will have to be supplied from more expensive sources, but since we have not yet had a full and final report from the electricity board, because it has not completed its inquiry, and we do not know how long the station will be closed, it would not be right to make any judgments about the effect on tariffs.

Is the Minister aware that we share his sadness and that of the House on the passing of William Small? He was among the kindest and most conscientious of our colleagues. He had a superb record of service to both Glasgow and the trade union movement.

I am sorry, but I cannot tell the hon. Member when we shall have a report. I can assure him, however, that the electricity board is conducting a thorough inquiry and will want as much publicity as possible for it. On the second point, concerning the attitude of the SNP, I am sure the hon. Member will agree that we are all sometimes somewhat confused by that party's attitude not only to this problem but to many others. That attitude seems to depend on which day of the week the speech is made and who happens to make it.

Is it premature to ask my right hon. Friend to confirm that what occurred at Hunterston will not be regarded as a black mark when crucial decisions are taken upon the advanced gas-cooled reactor system?

I have discussed this with the chairman of the electricity board and he has assured me that this will in no way prejudice further discussion of the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give details of the latest results of each of the special employment measures introduced to combat unemployment; and if he will make a statement.

About 53,000 people in Scotland are currently benefiting from the special employment measures. I am placing the detailed breakdown of the figures in the Official Report.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Government's bold and imaginative measures have been warmly welcomed in Scotland, as they have decisively reduced unemployment? Is it possible, however, to step up those provisions, especially in areas of high unemployment, such as Coatbridge and Airdrie?

We are deeply conscious of the problems of my hon. Friend's constituency and of other industrial constituencies in all parts of Scotland. He will recall that it was not so many weeks ago that we announced new measures, which we think will be of considerable value. I am thinking particularly of the youth opportunities programme, which comes into being on 1st April this year and will provide 230,000 places for young people throughout the United Kingdom. We also propose to use the special temporary employment programme, which will give opportunities to 25,000 adults.

Does the Minister think that there might be ways of improving co-ordination between the large number of bodies involved in bringing jobs to Scotland? Is he satisfied that the present procedures are adequate, and will he consider looking at this matter in detail?

For many years, particularly before I became a Minister, I was concerned about the number of people and agencies involved in job creation and inward investment. The hon. Member for Dumfries (Mr. Monro) will recall that interest from his experience in the Scottish Office. We now have a Scottish Economic Planning Department which works very closely with the Scottish Development Agency and the Scottish Council (Development and Industry) and we have reached a fairly satisfactory state which avoids the proliferation of organisations involved in these matters.

Does the Minister agree that the so-called bold and imaginative plans that the Government are implementing are so effective that Scottish unemployment is running against the United Kingdom trend and is continuing to rise? Already this week there have been announcements of closures in places such as Clydebank, which will add to the jobless total. Can the Minister see his way to reintroducing the regional employment premium, the withdrawal of which has been estimated to have cost Scotland 20,000 jobs so far?

The hon. Lady should acknowledge that about 53,000 people in Scotland are already benefiting from these measures. They are of considerable help to many young people. As to whether the measures are the right ones, I can tell the House that they are under constant review. We decided not to continue the REP, but we introduced other measures, such as the youth opportunities scheme and the temporary employment subsidy, and provided more money for the Scottish Development Agency. There have been selective schemes to help industries such as foundries and machine tools, from which we in Scotland have benefited to a great extent.

Does my right hon. Friend expect Scottish unemployment to be reduced substantially over the next six months?

The hon. Gentleman would not be foolish enough to think that I would be prepared to make guesstimates of that kind.

We welcome the measures which are helping unemployed young people, but is the Minister aware that most of those young people are still, in effect, unemployed in terms of having long-term worthwhile jobs with career prospects? Most of the 53,000 people that he has mentioned should be added to the unemployment total if we are to get a true picture of the failure of the Government on unemployment.

I do not think that one can add the 53,000 to the total unemployed. We are taking action in a very difficult time of world recession to help young people to gain job experience, and that is a matter of considerable importance. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I have both said repeatedly that we do not regard these jobs as in any way a substitute for real jobs in the Scottish economy. We have taken measures to hold down inflation, and believe that those, with other measures that we are taking, will provide the real answer.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will consider sympathetically the funding of drama provision for Queen Margaret College in Edinburgh; and if he will make a statement as to the criteria he would use to judge such an application in this connection.

Courses in drama have been provided at Queen Margaret College since 1972–73. The college has proposed an extension to provide a drama teaching wing; a decision on this project will have to wait until an assessment has been made of the suitability of the surplus accommodation which will become available at Dunfermline College of Education.

I am grateful to the Minister for his reply, as far as it went, but is he aware that £40,000 has been spent by the college, with the approval of the Scottish Education Department, to realign a road for the building of the drama teaching wing extension? Bearing in mind that this is the recognised centre of drama in the East of Scotland, will he give the college advice on what it should do in this connection?

I understand the question about the £40,000. I suggest that the hon. Member cannot have it both ways. He wants us to save 10 colleges of education, with a falling school population. At the same time we have got to consider diversification and use of very expensive alternative accommodation. Discussions are taking place and a discussion with the SED is taking place at Dunfermline tomorrow.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is his estimate of the increase in the work force in Scotland that is anticipated in the next 15 years.

Labour force projections for Scotland up to 1991 are at present being calculated and will be published as soon as they are available.

Does the Minister of State realise that that is a most extraordinary reply in view of the reply given by the Secretary of State for Employment in c. 256 of Hansard on 13th December 1977, in which he was apparently able to calculate the United Kingdom figure? Does this mean that the Government's projections are to be on a United Kingdom basis and that they have no idea what the position is in Scotland?

We have made projections on a United Kingdom basis until the 1981 period, but we do not have figures for 1991 in Scotland. We are preparing them, and they will be published as soon as possible.

Is the Minister aware that at Portlethen, near Aberdeen, and at Montrose in my constituency there have been losses of jobs in recent weeks of over 60 in each case, directly as a result of agriculture policies followed by the present Government? Is he aware that these policies are now having an effect on employment in processing industries for agriculture? If the Government get these policies right, particularly the devaluation of the green pound, that will help future employment in Scotland.

I am conscious of the difficulties which the hon. Gentleman has, particularly in industry. However, I am bound to say that I am not quite so conscious of the problems that he has mentioned in agriculture. We shall do what we can to help on the industry side.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the most recent projection for the rise in the work force in Scotland up to 1986 is about 150,000? Does he not, therefore, take the point that there is a great deal to be done to stimulate investment in manufacturing industry and other jobs in Scotland? Does he further accept that the solution to the unemployment problem in Scotland is a Socialist one, and that if we leave it to the capitalist economy we shall be in greater danger?

I think that it has to be borne in mind that because of the rise in the birth rate in 1960 many more people have come on to the labour market than there have been for some years, plus the fact that there are a number of women now coming on to the labour market. The measures which the Government have taken, particularly in the setting up of the Scottish Development Agency, the National Enterprise Board, and the Industry Act 1975, are the sort of measures likely to create jobs in the United Kingdom and particularly in Scotland.

When will the Secretary of State and the Minister be able to give us some indication of the Government's plans for steel, an industry in which Scotland is facing the greatest crisis in years? This is in an industry in which we have tried the Socialist policy of nationalisation for some time. What is the outlook for steel? Will the Minister look at the October 1974 election manifesto on which the Labour Party was returned to power? Will he indicate whether the temporary employment subsidy is seriously under threat because of the recent discussions with the EEC?

We will make our findings known as soon as possible on the question of steel.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement about his proposals for a council for tertiary education in Scotland.

I refer to the reply which my right hon. Friend gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow. Pollok (Mr. White) yesterday.

Is the Minister aware that we welcome the reply to which he has just referred? Does he agree that there is no need to wait for devolution to set up this council, as the proposal has widespread support in Scotland?

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind welcome to the proposed council. I shall certainly consider his point about the word "tertiary". It is understood by most people in education. I hope that all hon. Members will submit views on the whole question of this council.

There is broad general agreement in Scotland that this council should be established, and the proposal has been welcomed by various education bodies in the post-school sector. Does the Minister accept that a crucial education matter, which must be dealt with quickly, is the problem of further education lecturers who still have not had their pay anomalies straiightened out?

That is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment.

Will the Minister indicate whether the Government will be giving support to the Bill which has been introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, West (Lord James Douglas-Hamilton), in view of the support that this Bill has received from all sides of the House and from all education bodies in Scotland?

Wait and see.

We should wait and see how the council is set up. I am always grateful for help and advice from my right hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross). I think that most hon. Members would agree that to set up an investigation into further or higher education at the same time as setting up a council would be a duplication of effort and a great waste of time. In my opinion, looking at the history of education, every time we have a problem there is a cry for a council investigation. If I accepted all the cries for investigations, there would no education at all in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he next expects to meet the STUC.

My right hon. Friend has agreed to meet the STUC again but no date has yet been arranged.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that it is now about four months since he had discussions with the STUC about the Scottish Timber Product situation at Cowie, in my constituency, and that there is increasing concern among the work force and others about the long delay in this matter? If it is the case that no suitable buyer comes in with a firm offer for the company, will the Minister ask the Scottish Development Agency to consider taking over complete ownership of the company under the terms of Section 2 of the Scottish Development Agency Act?

On the first part of my hon. Friend's question, I am very conscious of the delay and of his concern and that of the shop stewards, whom I met only on Friday of last week with my hon. Friend. Negotiations are taking place at present and I would not wish to say anything which would in any way jeopardise the prospects for those negotiations, which I hope will come to a successful conclusion.

Will the Minister tell the STUC that the Labour Government last night disgracefully voted against one of the things dearest to the heart of the STUC—namely, that the SDA should be devolved to the Scottish Assembly? Does he agree that the Government's vote against devolving the SDA to the Scottish Assembly will seriously hamper the SDA in its work?

I heard what the hon. Gentleman had to say last night. I was slightly puzzled because he seems to be completely misrepresenting the view of the STUC.

When my right hon. Friend meets the STUC, would it not be useful to have a general discussion on the whole question of the continual misrepresentations and lies that are uttered in this House about the attitude of the STUC to this matter? This is just the most recent example. There have been several. I think that it should be stopped.

I think that the STUC, which I meet frequently, made a fair assessment of the attitude of the SNP to industrial matters. That was brought to a head when we had the public tearing-up of telegrams on the whole question of the nationalisation of the shipbuilding industry.

Would it not help if the Minister suggested to the STUC that it should reconvene the one-day conferences on Scottish unemployment which it used to hold some years ago under the Conservative Government when the numbers of unemployed were fewer than half the present figure?

The STUC meets frequently. It is both publicly and privately candid in its attitude and puts for ward its views in a spirit of friendship, which I appreciate. I do not think that the STUC draws any distinction between Conservative and Labour Administrations.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress has been made in converting the Royal High School in Edinburgh for the proposed Scottish Assembly; and what is the value of the work still to be completed.

The work described in the reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy (Mr. Gourlay) on 7th April 1977 is expected to be completed by the spring. About £500,000 has still to be spent on this work.

How does the cost of the work already completed compare with the estimates?

The work already completed has £500,000 to be spent on it. The additional work to be done can best be explained by pointing out that a balance of £1,250,000 is still available between the £2 million already announced and the £3·25 million declared in the explanatory and financial memorandum.

If the Government are providing a largely "get-you-in" service until the Assembly can decide whether it will be a Committee or Chamber-based legislature, what is the earliest date by which Westminster's share of the work can be completed?

I should make it clear that the only service that I am interested in providing to the SNP is a "get-you-out", not a "get-you-in", service.

If the service that my hon. Friend is interested in providing is "get-them-out", why on earth does he spend his time supporting devolution?

In view of your appeal for short answers, Mr. Speaker, I shall not become involved in that matter.

Have the Government considered alternative uses for the building in the event of the people of Scotland saying "No"?

All possibilities are continually under consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many new fishing vessels are now being built in Scottish yards.

Twenty-nine fishing vessels are currently being built with assistance from public funds. Also being built are, I understand, one small vessel for home owners without Exchequer aid, one for export and two speculatively.

Does the Minister agree that there is grave doubt about the use to which these new boats can be put unless we achieve renegotiation of the Common Market fisheries policy? Is there any information from Brussels that he can give us?

The only information that I have from Brussels is that, as the House may have noticed, my right hon. Friend is not here. The Under-Secretary of State was asked to go to Brussels last night so that my right hon. Friend could be here today to answer these questions. Unhappily, the weather conditions are such that he is still stranded somewhere between Brussels and London. I know that he would wish me, on his behalf, to apologise to the House for his absence.

I appreciate that the Minister is aware of the deep concern about the future of the fishing boat building industry and the fishing industry in general. Is he aware of the extremely depressing news out of Brussels not only yesterday but today? Is he further aware that, so long as the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Minister of Agriculture stand up for the preference of the British fishing industry, particularly the 50-mile zone, he will have the full support of both sides of the House?

Order. The hon. Gentleman is anticipating another Question on the Order Paper.

Is the Minister aware that there is a serious problem for small boat builders in Scotland, since they require continuity of work if they are to remain in business? Is he further aware that there are indications that the amount of loan funds available for the purchase and building of new fishing boats this year has been cut? Will he review the matter if he finds that some yards are running into difficulties?

We are conscious of the problems of small boat builders throughout the whole country. For these reasons, the Government have given valuable assistance to them in recent times. Indeed, that was indicated to me only last week when I went to the Boat Show.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there seems to be an opportunity for building fishing boats for the new fishing port opening on the western coast of the Isle of Lewis? The right hon. Member for Western Isles (Mr. Stewart), who represents that area, is not present, but I am sure that he will not mind my asking whether those opportunities will be available for inshore fishing boat builders from Scotland rather than European fishing boat builders.

That is one reason why the SDA took the initiative in that direction. We want to help Scottish fishermen and Scottish small boat builders whenever possible.

Is the Minister aware that Scottish purse seiners and fishing boats are supplying 12 Soviet bloc factory ships in the port of Falmouth with 600 tons of mackerel a day? Will he assure the Cornish people that these boats will not continue to come to Cornwall and rape and kill the industry there as they have their own?

That is an interesting question, but the hon. Gentleman must realise that it has nothing to do with the Question that I am answering now. Perhaps he will put it down to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is satisfied that hill and upland farmers have received a fair financial return during 1977; and if he will make a statement.

As indicated in the annual review White Paper, published last week, average net incomes on hill sheep and upland rearing farms in Scotland are estimated to have gone up by 43 per cent. and 16 per cent. respectively in 1976–77. Further increases are forecast for 1977–78.

Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that the staggering increase in the costs of production of beef on hill and upland farms far outweighs any profit on sheep? Is he further aware of the grave damage done to farming generally in Scotland and throughout the United Kingdom by the Government's failure to devalue the green pound?

Many interests have to be balanced before a decision can be taken on the devaluation of the green pound. It is worthy of note that the Government have devalued the green pound on numerous occasions, and will no doubt do so again, but only in the interests of the nation as a whole.

Does my hon. Friend agree that many of the difficulties faced by farmers stem directly from our membership of the Common Market? Instead of listening to the Tories and the SNP, who are calling for a huge devaluation of the green pound, which would have a massive inflationary effect on food prices, would it not be better to scrap completely the common agricultural policy and revert to a system of deficiency payments which would ensure a fair price for both the farmer and the housewife?

In my usual fair and generous manner, the best that I can say to the farmers is that they seem to have some slight misunderstanding of the effect of the common agricultural policy.

I should like to associate the Liberal Party with the tributes that have been paid to our colleague who died so tragically this morning.

The whole economic position of the hill and upland sector is being examined in the annual review of one agriculture industry. The results of that review should not be anticipated. The point made by the right hon. Gentleman will be taken into consideration.

Does the Minister agree about the importance of sheep farming in maintaining hill and upland farm viability? What estimates have been made of the effect on agriculture in Scotland of the French and Irish sheepmeat deal? What steps will be taken to expand Scottish sheepmeat trade with EEC countries?

I accept the importance of sheep farming in maintaining the viability of these mixed units.

Further to the point raised in the first supplementary question, may I ask whether it is not the case that there is a general problem facing hill and upland areas, much of it derived from high feedstuff prices, which in turn arise directly from our unprincipled entry into the Common Market undertaken by the Tories? Does my hon. Friend not agree that, rather than going for mass pressure and mass capitulation to this unprincipled demand for the complete devaluation of the green pound, it would be much more sensible to give a direct injection of capital and increase the hill calf subsidy? Will my hon. Friend give urgent attention to another point that has been raised in this exchange, namely, the French-Irish deal on sheepmeat, which is coming close to breaking the spirit if not the leter of the Rome Declaration?

I have given a specific undertaking to the hon. Member for South Angus (Mr. Welsh) that I will look in detail at the points he has made. I recognise the economic difficulties being suffered by hill and upland farmers. Their position is being considered in the review of the agriculture industry, but I must ask for the indulgence of the House when I say that I cannot anticipate the outcome of that review.

Is the Minister aware that, due to soaring costs of all kinds, there are many Scottish farmers who will be expecting a net reduction in their income in the coming year? Will he bear in mind that while the rest of the population is busy squabbling about whether they will get a 10 per cent. increase this is not the case for the farmers? Should not the farmers at least be dealt with on the same basis?

That supplementary question does not lead me to the view that many farmers will suffer a net reduction in their income in the coming year. The forecast that I gave to the House was that farmers will have an increase in income this year, although some farmers in various sectors might have some difficulties. It is this aspect which is being examined.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the latest situation in the fishing industry.

The prospects for the industry depend to a considerable extent on the outcome of the negotiations on the common fisheries policy which are still in progress in Brussels.

Does not the Minister agree that the latest EEC proposals remain totally unacceptable? One does not know whether to treat them as a joke or as an insult. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the news coming out of Brussels today is leading to fears in the industry that there will be a sell-out on limits and quotas as well as on conservation? Does he not agree that there can be no substitute for a 50-mile exclusively controlled limit and for fair quotas backed by strict licences?

I very much resent the suggestion by the hon. Member that there has been some sort of sell-out. The hon. Gentleman and all who are interested in the fishing industry would be well advised to wait until the negotiations have been completed and my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food have reported these matters to the House. I know the attitude of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland. He has listened sympathetically to the views put to him about a 50-mile limit. I know that both my right hon. Friends are pursuing all these policies with considerable vigour in Brussels.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is considerable satisfaction throughout Scotland, as elsewhere, about the vigorous stand which both my right hon. Friends are taking in the fisheries negotiations? Is he further aware that this feeling of satisfaction is particularly marked since people are conscious of the weak negotiating position which this country had as a result of the terms of entry into the EEC approved by the previous Conservative Government? Will he undertake to see that messages are sent to my right hon. Friends to the effect that they can tell the Commission during the present negotiations that they cannot accept any deal on fishing unless it is first approved by this House?

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments about the way in which my right hon. Friends are approaching this difficult problem. I can assure him that the message he has given will be passed on. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland has done some hard work, which has been much appreciated by hon. Members interested in this subject.

May I add my congratulations to both right hon. Gentlemen on their tremendously firm stand in Brussels? Does the Minister recognise the difficult situation which has arisen vis-à-vis our fishermen and Norwegian fishermen? Is he aware that in the absence of any agreement in Brussels there is no reciprocal agreement between ourselves and Norway? Will he take steps to negotiate an interim and reciprocal agreement, if necessary?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, these questions do not all concern matters with which I would normally deal. I can assure him that all the comments which have been made will be passed to my right hon. Friend. Everyone recognises the expertise that he has acquired since becoming Secretary of State.

May I say that we appreciate the extreme pressure under which the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Secretary of State for Scotland are operating? May I assure the right hon. Gentleman that as long as his right hon. Friends maintain a tough stand in the face of unreasonable claims by our European partners they will have the full support of the House? If they weaken, the situation will be different.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I know the stand which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland takes. I have seen him operating during negotiations on other matters. The hon. Gentleman can be assured that Scotland's views on these matters will be fairly, squarely and vigorously put to those in Brussels.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland in what way it is intended to replace emergency medical services hospitals still operating in Scotland.

The current National Health Service major capital building programme for Scotland provides for the eventual replacement of six of the seven hospitals which were originally built as wartime emergency medical services hospitals and are still in use.

Will the Minister say a word about the priority with which these hospitals will be built? Will he say whether the replacements will be large hospitals or in the nature of cottage hospitals? Has he any idea of the upper limit? Can he say which is the most expensive?

It would take too long to go into the detail of the six hospitals. I will write to the hon. Gentleman about them if he would like me to do so. A general point that I can make is that Raigmore is in band A; Peel, Bangour General and Bridge of Earn are in band B; and Ballochmyle, which the hon. Gentleman may know very well, is in band C of the major building programme which was announced on 2nd May. The plans are being prepared at present.

Since one of those six hospitals serves my constituency, may I ask whether the Minister is in a position to tell the House whether he has yet received the representations from the Border Area Health Board and the Border Regional Council? Is he aware that both bodies make it clear that public opinion has been demonstrated to be clearly on the side of the new hospital, that the limited objections which have been received have in part been met and that the rest must be balanced against the weight of public opinion, which is in favour of pressing ahead quickly with the new building?

My Department is very much aware of the need to have the district general hospital built on the location that has been selected. The right hon. Gentleman has been very active in this matter. It is true to say that the Border General District Hospital will replace Peel, which was one of the wartime emergency hospitals. The plans are now well advanced.

While many of these old hospitals did excellent work, may I ask my hon. Friend to keep in mind the fact that the rebuilding of hospitals must be rationalised in respect of catchment areas, so that the most up-to-date equipment can be supplied?

That is one of the prime factors which we have in mind. Another is the fact that we are trying to shift the emphasis in the Health Service from the acute side of medicine—without running that down—to the long stay side. All these factors have been considered in this programme.

Since the cost of running a new hospital inevitably seems to be greater than the cost of running an old hospital, may I ask my hon. Friend to give an assurance that, as well as providing the capital cost of the hospitals, the Government will ensure that the relevant area health board is provided with the running costs?

The problem is not to do with running costs, which are met from revenue, but rather with the commissioning costs of a new hospital. We have had one or two instances where the commissioning costs have not been able to be met by the various area health boards. This is one of the matters we have under consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has had with the road haulage industry about the effect on Scottish transport costs of the EEC regulations on drivers' hours; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend has kept in close touch with developments on this matter through my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport, who is well aware of the special problems that the regulations pose for the more remote parts of the United Kingdom. My right hon. Friend has assured those Scottish transport bodies, including the Scottish Transport Group, which have written to him of his concern and of his efforts to obtain the best possible terms for a staged implementation.

Is the Minister aware that the 450-km limit for a daily journey is causing serious problems in Scottish transport and will have the result of increasing costs substantially? Is he aware of the special problems which this limit creates since the unions are unwilling to have the tachographs installed? Does he see any way out of the problem of the 450-km limit, which has to apply as a result of our membership of the Community?

It is right to say that some concessions have been made on the 450-km limit which have been valuable to Scottish interests. We are grateful to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport for having negotiated them. It is not easy to quantify the costs at this moment. All the points that have been raised by the hon. Gentleman will be borne in mind. From time to time we come upon tricky problems following our entry into the EEC. The hon. Member is not, perhaps, as enthusiastic about our entry as are some of his colleagues. We have to make these regulations work, and we shall do so.

Order. I hope that right hon. and hon. Members will do me the favour of studying Hansard when it comes out tomorrow and seeing how long the supplementary questions and answers have been. That accounts for the fact that we have reached fewer Questions today than we have reached for at least the last two months.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what improvements he intends to put in hand on the A75 trunk road in 1978.

Improvement schemes at Shennanton and Drumflower Bridge are planned to start in 1978.

Will the hon. Gentleman take another look at Glenluce and see whether he can at least begin the process of preparing a scheme for a bypass for that much suffering village?

I will pass the hon. Gentleman's comments on to my noble Friend who deals with day-to-day problems of roads in Scotland.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, since the rapid increase in the Irish container traffic, the situation on this road is deteriorating rapidly? Will he give as much priority to this road as he does to the roads for the North-East for oil? Will he also look at the ring road around Dumfries?

The hon. Gentleman will know that I am awaiting the results of a study carried out by the Dumfries and Galloway Regional Council. This road will be progressed year by year. We are spending a considerable sum of money on improving it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether the Scottish Education Department and the Scottish Assembly will have direct involvement in educational decision-making within the European Community following the creation in the EEC of the new Directorate General XII for education.

It is the United Kingdom that is a member State of the Community and it would be inappropriate for any part of the United Kingdom to have separate representation. My Department has participated fully in the work of the EEC Education Committee since its beginning in 1974.

Is this not another case where, once the Assembly is set up, Edinburgh will have to talk directly to Brussels, with the London link withering away? Will the hon. Gentleman take steps, after the Assembly is established, to ensure that papers on matters both devolved and within the competence of the EEC are sent directly to the appropriate Scottish body without having to go through an English Minister first?

We shall no doubt discuss this matter tonight, when we debate education on the Scotland Bill. I repeat that it is the United Kingdom that is the body representing us in Erussels.

No.

If the hon. Lady wants to talk about a Scottish presence, I remind her that I myself represented the United Kingdom last June in Strasbourg when we had the conference of European Education Ministers.

Will my hon. Friend confirm that representation of this kind by the Edinburgh Assembly would be unacceptable to our European partners?

I must agree with my hon. Friend.

Is it not clear that the absence of the Secretary of State and the Under-Secretary of State from the Government Front Bench today indicates that all of Scotland's special interests can be represented in Europe under the present arrangements that the Government have?

I agree.