asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what estimates are available to him of the likely variations of the labour force in Northern Ireland for the next 10 years; and by how much he expects an increase due to school leavers, and women wishing to return to work, in each of the next 10 years.

The most recent projections of the Northern Ireland labour force were prepared in 1974 and are currently being revised. On the basis of the 1974 calculations the Northern Ireland labour force is projected to increase by 10·7 per cent. between 1978 and 1988, from 616,000 to 682,000.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Is he aware that I am particularly concerned about the problem facing younger school leavers over that period? What steps is he taking to persuade employers to increase the number of apprenticeships between now and 1982 to take into account the fact that there will be a decline in the number of school leavers later?

I implore my hon. Friend to keep this matter in the context of Northern Ireland because in percentage terms the problem is not as severe as it is in the rest of the United Kingdom. We calculate that our apprenticeship schemes are about 10 times better than in the rest of the United Kingdom. We have increased training scheme places from 4,000 to 6,000 per year.

How many places will be available in the various training schemes over this period?

We have been running training schemes at the rate of 4,000 places a year and we are increasing this by 50 per cent. to 6,000 a year over this period.

Will my right hon. Friend substantially increase the rates of the educational maintenance allowance? Will he make the payments directly to the students in order to encourage them either to stay on at school after they are 16 or to attend technical college up to the age of 19, instead of forcing them into the soul-destroying experience of signing on the dole?

The problem in Northern Ireland is greater than in the rest of the United Kingdom. About 3½ per cent. more people are employed today than in 1966. But the problem in Northern Ireland is that an extra 7½ per cent. have come on to the job market.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what is the total amount of central Government aid to security service's other than those provided by police and the Ministry of Defence.

It is estimated that during the current financial year £4,600,000 will have been spent in Northern Ireland by the Government on the security staff grants scheme and £3,187,000 on the civil search unit.

Does the Minister feel that this is the most efficient use of the huge Government contribution of £7 million-plus? Will he reconsider the advisability of giving ad hoc sums of money to employ fire watchers and organise this at a higher level and perhaps subsidise a training programme?

There are many complexities interwoven in the hon. Member's question. The security staff grants scheme includes an increase in the number of fire officers employed outside working hours. This has been the result of intensive discussion in Northern Ireland. This is the scheme that is wanted. I shall draw the hon. Member's comments to the notice of those concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, in the light of the fact that sitting tenants of properties acquired by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive for the purposes of housing action areas are suffering substantial rent increases, which have no relation to the condition of the properties involved, what action he proposes to take to relate rents to housing conditions.

Northern Ireland Housing Executive rents are normally related to the condition of the dwellings and the amenities provided, and where dwellings are acquired with a view to their improvement or rehabilitation existing private rent levels are retained until the work has been completed

I am grateful for that reply. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the tenants of these houses had their rents tripled when they were taken over by the Housing Executive? Will he ensure that they are charged the right rent which they were paying before the houses were taken over? Will he see that the rehabilitation of these houses is speeded up? They are in a deplorable condition.

We shall move as fast as we can. I am disappointed if some people are being charged rents above that war-rented by the condition of the houses. It is our intention not to increase rents on former private property until standards are improved.

Is my hon. Friend aware that it is simply not true that the rents of Housing Executive dwellings are normally related to the condition of the properties? Thousands of Housing Executive tenants are living in deplorable conditions and paying the same rent as is paid for houses which do not need repairing.

If my hon. Friend has evidence, let him provide it. We hear a lot of hot words about housing matters in Northern Ireland, but rarely do we get the evidence. If my hon. Friend has it, let him provide it.

On the second part of the original Question, may we be assured that a public inquiry will be held into the allegations first made in early 1976 by a number of us on the Conservative Benches, including my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Mrs. Knight) about mismanagement of contracts and excessive payments beneficial to the IRA in Andersonstown and elsewhere and to other para-military groups? We were at that time brushed off by the then Secretary of State. We had an announcement on Christmas Eve. We now want to be told that there will be a public inquiry and that it will speedily get down to work.

I had hoped to make a statement in the Northern Ireland Committee this morning about the investigation into the Northern Ireland Housing Executive but I was unable to do so. If it will suit the convenience of the House, I shall have the text of the statement placed in the Official Report. I have already placed copies of it in the Library.

"To inquire in the light of allegations affecting the Northern Ireland Housing Executive into the placing and management of contracts and the payment of grants by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive."

Since the police report on the allegations which I originally made about two and a half years ago was finally completed last March, will the hon. Gentleman now inject some urgency into the whole question? While he is doing so, will he also look at some of the practices of the Housing Executive—for instance, the directive that before tenants leave an old house they must completely wreck it?

I do not know whether the hon. Lady was listening to my statement, but I would have thought that it was a complete answer to the first part of her question.

Is the inquiry to be a public, sworn inquiry? Will it have power to send for persons and papers, including former Ministers in the North- ern Ireland Office who were, in consultation with the Housing Executive, engaged in the contracts which are now under scrutiny?

That will be a matter for the chairman, Judge Rowland, to decide. It is not for us to pre-empt the scope or depth of his inquiry, but we hope that everyone in Northern Ireland from the Government through to Members of Parliament and councillors, and anyone else dealing with housing, will give complete co-operation to the judge.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern. Ireland when he next intends to meet Ministers from the Republic of Ireland.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he has any plans to meet the Prime Minister of the Irish Republic.

I look forward to further meetings with Ministers of the Irish Republic before too long, but I have no firm plans for such meetings at present.

When the Secretary of State meets Irish Ministers will he make clear that the Government have no truck with rumoured Tory policy proposals of withdrawing the franchise from citizens of the Irish Republic who have been resident in this country, in some cases for many years, and that we would be wholly opposed to any change of that sort?

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. I hope that this fact will be fully conveyed to the Irish authorities so that they may know where we stand. However, I am not responsible for what appears in the Press and for what other hon. Members may say.

When my right hon. Friend eventually meets the Prime Minister of the Irish Republic, will he undertake to explore with him in some depth, if possible, the question of the change of policy from the previous Irish Government to the present in regard to the presence of British troops in Northern Ireland? In exploring that issue, will he, in particular, take into account the expressed view of both communities in Northern Ireland on this important matter?

Certainly the next time I meet the Prime Minister or the Foreign Secretary of the Republic I shall discuss such matters with him. Those matters are wholly relevant to the situation in Northern Ireland, but I have not yet detected a major change of policy by the South on that issue.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that no such proposals with regard to Irish voting rights exist outside newspaper articles, and that no such statement has been made? Will he tell the Irish Government that raising the spectre of British withdrawal at the present time simply encourages subversion and terrorism in Northern Ireland? Will he protest against the reported denunciation by the Irish Foreign Minister, Mr. O'Kennedy, of the undertakings given at Sunningdale in 1973 with regard to the status of Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom?

That all depends on how wide the discussions roam once we meet. Raising the spectre of military withdrawal is bound to cause some turbulence in the North. That has been accepted, and the Taoiseach has been fully aware of that.

Without any disrespect to the right hon. Gentleman or criticism of him, would it not be appropriate that talks between Her Majesty's Government and the Government of the Irish Republic should normally take place under the aegis of the Foreign Office?

Yes, there are many matters that would primarily go through the Foreign Office to the Irish Republic. Most major matters would be carried on on that basis. I do not, however, want the House to believe that we do not have ministerial contact with the South. In the last six months my Ministers and I have met at least seven Ministers of the Fianna Fail Government.

Does the Secretary of State agree that Sunningdale was brought to an end by the action of the strikers in May 1974 and that it is highly unrealistic to expect any partner to that agreement faithfully to fulfil that pledge? Will he say whether it is true that on Monday afternoon of this week a Diplomatic Note was sent by this Government to the Dublin Government regarding allegations of cross-border activity, and that the Government in Dublin have completely rejected the terms of that note?

I would have thought that most right hon. and hon. Members had learnt the 1974 lesson concerning Sunningdale. That is one of our difficulties in trying to make political progress. As for the other matters, the information regarding the wider use of the Republic was conveyed to the Dublin authorities three months ago and before I made my speech on Monday. I hope that that sort of matter will now be pursued through the official channels.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will consider proposals for improving the machinery of the Government of Northern Ireland.

Various improvements have been made in the last two years to the machinery of government for Northern Ireland, but I am always willing to consider any proposals for further improvements.

If the Government will not restore devolved government to Northern Ireland and will not reinstate effective local government, will the Secretary of State introduce improvements to the present processes for governing Northern Ireland and remove the defects, of which we have had two examples this week?

As the hon. Gentleman and the House know, my aim for Northern Ireland is a partnership Administration, and I am trying still to keep on that course. On improving the machinery of government, I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will recognise that we have increased time in the Northern Ireland Committee, we have extended debates on the Floor of the House, and we now have more Great Britain Bills applying to Northern Ireland. In addition, we have increased consultative time on draft orders. We are constantly making improvements.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we accept in principle what the hon. Member for Antrim, South (Mr. Molyneaux) has just said, but that in the short term a new structure for local government and regional administration should be devised in Northern Ireland to make it more responsive to public opinion? In looking at improvements in the machinery of government, will he ensure that his junior Ministers do not seek to impose domestic policies on questions such as education without adequate consultation?

I take the point made by the hon. Gentleman. My noble Friend who is responsible for education in Northern Ireland and I have gone to great lengths to make sure that there is proper consultation. We must not bow too quickly to very strong pressure groups. We have allowed them a great deal of leeway and latitude. However, proper consultation is taking place on the gradual changes in education in Northern Ireland.

Does the right hon. Gentleman know that the Ulster people believe that he and the Government are treating Northern Ireland like some piece of colonial territory miles and miles away and that that belief is given substance to by the fact that last Monday we had a debate on security which, through some gentleman's agreement, was supposed to last for only four hours? That is disgraceful, when we also had a number of orders, including one on appropriation, which had to be dealt with in an hour and a half.

The hon. Gentleman is right in saying that the appropriate order took only an hour and a half, but that was because of the activities of the hon. Gentleman and his friends. There was an agreement for four hours' debate. The debate should have terminated at 8·15, but it went on until 10 o'clock. One of the reasons for that was the almost dishonourable behaviour of some of the hon. Gentlemen who participated in the debate. It is a good job that Ulstermen did not see the hon. Gentleman at work on that day.

Without wishing to render the excitement greater, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman agrees that in similar cases in future we shall have to consider carefully the utility of a business motion which would preserve a certain minimum length of time for an order as important as the Appropriation Act? In saying that, may I ask him to realise that I am making no criticism of the Administration for what happened on Monday?

That is a valid point. The right hon. Gentleman will realise that most of his hon. Friends were not fully conversant with the procedures of the House, and having taken the security debate to 10 o'clock they were depriving themselves of time to discuss the appropriation order. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends will appreciate that we did in the end allow a full day to discuss the question of security.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many armed men are currently deployed by her Majesty's Government in Northern Ireland, inclusive or armed auxiliary elements; and what were the numbers at the same time in each of the last eight years.

At 1st March, 13 major units of the combat arms were deployed in support of the Royal Ulster Constabulary in. Northern Ireland, together with 11 battalions of the Ulster Defence Regiment.

I am grateful for that somewhat sketchy answer, but is the Minister aware that the present war in Northern Ireland is the longest war in which British armed forces have been engaged for 162 years? Is he aware that the length of that war and the number of armed men so deployed after such a long time is a true indication of the failure of all the political initiatives so far tried? Therefore, will the Minister give some undertaking that his Department is at least prepared to consider alternative untried political options?

If my hon. Friend could sketch these in a bit more I would appreciate it. The Government's long-term security strategy is based on developing the strength and capability of the police to the point at which they can discharge their duties without military assistance. While terrorism continues to pose a threat, and for as long as the overall situation demands it, there will be an Army presence at an appropriate level.

Does the Minister agree that the wording of the Question is insulting to the memory of hundreds of soldiers and policemen who have given their lives so that the community in Northern Ireland shall live at peace in law and order?

I should have thought that the Question was a straight one, although a bit sketchily put together.

A bit sketchily answered.

A sketchy Answer to a sketchy question. I would have thought that it was the supplementary questions that mattered.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what conclusions he draws from the high level of votes cast by postal vote in the Mid-Ulster and the Fermanagh and South Tyrone parliamentary constituencies at the last General Election; and if he will make a statement.

I accept that the figures for postal voting in these two constituencies are abnormally high, but after consulting the Chief Electoral Officer I am satisfied that the rules on applications for postal votes are applied as rigorously in these two constituencies as they are elsewhere in the United Kingdom.

Is it not a fact that the average number of votes cast by postal vote throughout the United Kingdom is under 3 per cent, and that the figure for Fermanagh and South Tyrone is over 14 per cent., and that the hon. Member's majority there is 4 per cent. and that this can sometimes have a decisive effect on a close vote in the House, such as that which took place on 8th November 1976?

It is always possible that all the postal votes went to the loser in the election rather than to my hon. Friend, but I am afraid that we do not know, because records have since been destroyed. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] They always are. I would not have thought that that was any great news to anybody. If the hon. Member has any evidence to suggest that there was anything irregular in this case perhaps he will forward it to me.

As one of the constituencies is represented by a Unionist and the other by a non-Unionist, is the hon. Member for Christchurch and Lymington (Mr. Adley) implying that each hon. Member was guilty of misconduct during the course of the election?

I did the hon. Member the credit of simply seeking hard evidence, which the hon. Member does not appear to have found up to now.

On the basis of the Minister's reply, and as overwhelmingly these postal votes are based on physical inability to go to the polls, do the Government intend to institute an investigation into the reasons for the catastrophically lower level of health in these two counties as compared with the rest of the Province? What steps should be taken to remedy it?

That is probably the right avenue down which to march, but the right hon. Gentleman is, as always, more careful than others in seeking out these powers. If there is some hard evidence to explain why these figures are higher than those anywhere else, we are only too pleased and willing to look at them.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement about the present state of law and order.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the security situation in Northern Ireland.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the security situation.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the security situation in Northern Ireland.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, if he will make a further statement about the security situation.

Since the blast bomb outrage at the La Mon House restaurant on 17th February, terrorist activity has centred on attacks on members of the security forces, nine of whom have been killed so far this year.

In view of the public and Press conjecture that the Portadown murderers might start a new series of sectarian atrocities, should not all those with influence in the Province encourage the brave and patient people of the Province in their steady stand over these years against reprisals, which are what the Provisional IRA wants to provoke?

If the hon. Gentleman does not mind my saying so, I seem to have plenty of opportunities to report to the House on how we gradually intensify or change the tactics within our security strategy. There is opportunity at Question Time, and during security debates. I agree that it is essential now to appeal to the people of Northern Ireland to cooperate with the RUC. We should warn people of the dangers of a backlash—just exactly what the Provisional IRA is hoping for—because in the wake of that backlash they may rise again to try to prove that they are the protectors of the minority.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that if the Prime Minister of the South is sincere in his desire to see the Provisional IRA defeated, the greatest assistance to that aim could be given by accepting the European Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism and also by encouraging every development of co-operation between the RUC and the Garda?

The co-operation on the border between the RUC and the Garda is good, and I hope that we can build on that in the wider operations of attacking the Provisional IRA or, indeed, any other terrorist activity both in the North and in the South. My right hon. Friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary and Her Majesty's Government have let the Republic know how worried they are that the Republic is not prepared to move forward on the convention on the suppression of terrorism.

With regard to security in the Province, the right hon. Gentleman is aware of the urgent demand that I made that he should hold up the signing of the contract with the American firm of Rapid Data for the production of 500 new driving licences in Northern Ireland at a cost of almost £250,000, because—

Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, but he must come to the point and ask a question.

Will the Secretary of State give the House an assurance that that contract will not be signed, in view of the colossal amount of money involved, until he can assure the House that it is not a gift to the terrorists, who can alter the proposed driving licence, who can easily tamper with it, and use it as a means of identification?

I am sorry, but I do not appreciate the close relationship of that question to questions of security.

Is there any restriction on the use of the Special Air Service?

There is no restriction on the use of the Special Air Service. It is under the command of the general officer commanding the forces in Northern Ireland. Like all the security forces, of course, they must not act beyond the law.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that the quality of co-operation between the RUC and the Garda across the border varies from area to area and that the disparity between areas seems to be growing? Does he recognise that the best way to put that right would be to have ministerial talks?

I have no evidence to prove that there is a slackening of the co-operation between the RUC and the Garda on any part of the border. If the hon. Gentleman has such evidence, I shall be pleased to look at it. There is no doubt that as soon as we can find convenient dates ministerial talks will take place.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that all hon. Members will be pleased by the continuous praise that he has given on the question of cooperation on both sides of the border between the RUC and the Garda Siochana. Does my right hon. Friend think that at some time after Easter he could set about arranging ministerial talks so that some of the problems of definition that have arisen over the past few days, with the raising of tempers—which cannot be good for anybody—can be cooled down and matters sorted out sensibly?

I heed my hon. Friend's wise words. Ministerial talks may take place after Easter. It entirely depends on the convenience of Ministers and how quickly we can get together. Although no ministerial talks may have taken place on the security front, officials have been working together on cross-border economic co-operation, and there is the likelihood of a ministerial meeting on that.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, contrary to what the hon. Member for Down, North (Mr. Kilfedder) said, the introduction of a new form of driving licence is to be warmly welcomed for security reasons, and that the Government are to be congratulated on making use of the most up-to-date technology so that a document can be produced that is virtually tamper-proof?

Let us put it to the test.

I am much obliged to the hon. Member for Petersfield (Mr. Mates) for giving a better reply than I could to the hon. Member for Down, North (Mr. Kilfedder). Clearly, the hon. Gentleman knows much more detail than I do about the matter.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in my constituency recently the Army saw terrorists planting a bomb in Duncairn Gardens, but because of the yellow card restrictions the Army was unable to take the necessary action to deal with the terrorists? Will he give an assurance today that steps will be taken to preserve the lives of soldiers in Northern Ireland, in that the yellow card restrictions will be lifted and they will be allowed to deal with the terrorists in the proper way?

I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not advocating the abolition of the yellow card system in Northern Ireland. The soldiers, too, must be worried lest they kill innocent people in Northern Ireland. That is why we must have that sort of restriction.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what proposals he has for improving the quality and public accountability of local government in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement.

The 26 district councils in Northern Ireland are already accountable to their electorates for the way in which they carry out their duties. The quality of the services which they provide is a matter on which their electorates can pass judgment.

How can it be right to insist on the continuation of a system—or perhaps, more accurately, a nonsystem—of local government for Northern Ireland which the Government would not dream of accepting in any other part of the United Kingdom? Is it not wholly consistent with the Government's overall strategy for the constitutional future of the Province to fill, and fill urgently, the Macrory gap?

That is what the political talks were about earlier this year, until they broke down. The sooner we can have in Northern Ireland some form of devolved Administration, the sooner the hon. Gentleman's question will be answered.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he is satisfied with the make-up and working of the area boards.

Yes, Sir, though I should prefer to see them answerable to a locally elected Administration established on a basis acceptable to both parts of the community. This could be achieved within the framework which I have put to the parties in Northern Ireland.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the area boards provide the ideal administrative structure for such a development? May I suggest that it is high time we had a more democratic representation?

I suppose that the hon. Gentleman is aware that Sir Patrick Macrory was responsible for the establishment of the boards. They have been going for only about four years. They are representative of varying interests and are not democratically representative of local authorities. Generally speaking, the make-up of a board is 30 per cent. nominated by the district councils, 30 per cent. representing professional interests and 40 per cent. representing other interests, such as trade unions, universities and industry. Therefore, it can be seen that on the whole they are representing interests. They are keen to do the job, and so far we have not found maladministration.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that the members of the area education boards are not agents of the Department of Education? Will he also confirm that they are free to make an independent assessment of the proposed changes in the education system? If the area boards decide to scrap that system, will he accept their decision?

The area boards have been involved in the discussions on the evolution of education in Northern Ireland, but they are agents of the Department of Health and Social Security. They do not raise money by themselves. It must be afforded by the ratepayers.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the future prospects of Short Brothers Limited; and, in particular, whether the five-year rolling programme submitted by the firm to the Government has 1heir full approval and support.

The future prospects of Short Brothers will depend largely on the company's ability to achieve the production targets and to market its products successfully. Recent surveys of the market prospects for the SD5–50 wide-bodied commuter aircraft are encouraging and the achievement of satisfactory output of this aircraft will be a vital factor for the company's future success.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his reply. Will he take on board a feeling on the factory floor that the wheels of Government seem to move too slowly on occasions and that because of the nature of this rolling programme the workers and management would like to have an expeditious reply?

I understand that the management has discussed the matter with the trade unions and the work force within the company, but Government assistance will be necessary when we have got down to the matter. I must examine it very carefully, but I shall do it as speedily as I can, having at the back of my mind what the Opposition are always willing me to do, which is to look after the public purse as well.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he is planning any change of policy regarding the use of other fuels in place of coal in Northern Ireland.

No, Sir.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the Northern Ireland coal mine is one of the best, per head of population, in the whole of the United Kingdom, and one of the few things that unite the Protestants and Catholics, in that coal is burnt right across the political divide? Will my right hon. Friend also confirm that the gas pipeline that would be necessary if gas were brought in—and it seems to me that discussions are taking place at certain levels—would cost millions of pounds? It is a shortsighted policy when probably there are only 20 years' reserves of gas compared with centuries of coal availability.

I know that my hon. Friend's geographical knowledge of the coal industry is very wide, but on my travels around Northern Ireland—and I have been there some while—I have not yet seen a pithead, though I keep looking for one. There is under consideration a study of the case for gas in Northern Ireland, which has no link with North Sea gas. That is one of the problems over there. That study has been put to me. The coal that we use in Northern Ireland is only about 1 per cent. of the total coal production in Great Britain. Last year there was an increase of over 13 per cent. in the coal take in Northern Ireland.

Will the Minister tell his hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner) that those who are trying to bring natural gas to Northern Ireland are simply trying to give a cheaper fuel to the hard pressed, under-privileged people of Northern Ireland who are currently paying three times as much for their gas as are other parts of Great Britain, which have recently been told that the price of gas will remain static for the next 14 months?

Had notice been taken of people like my hon. Friend the Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner), my right hon. Friend and myself 10 years ago I do not think that we would be in the situation that we are today with regard to the coal industry. In Northern Ireland terms it is the complete imbalance of fuel which is responsible for the situation as it is today.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that in the next two or three years coal may well be cheaper than gas, taking capital expenditure into consideration? In view of the increasing amount of production at present, and the tremendous amount of stocks of coal that we possess, it may well be a more economic proposition to have coal transported to Northern Ireland rather than natural gas.

I think that this is the first time in history that we have had a couple of old colliers looking after Northern Ireland. What has been said will be taken into consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a further statement about the progress of his talks with political leaders in Northern Ireland.

Progress depends on the willingness of the parties in Northern Ireland to make it. It is unrealistic to expect quick results. What is needed is patience, tolerance and freedom from the glare of publicity.

Bearing in mind that most people of various political complexions are utterly sickened at the recent re-emergence of violence in Northern Ireland, is it not now time for the Government themselves to take some political initiative? The only suggestions that we seem to hear from Opposition Members are demands for capital punishment and internment, which would simply help the terrorists recruit more people.

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend's latter remarks. The difficulty with taking initiatives in Northern Ireland is the number of factions in the political parties and their religious bases, which would cause them to split asunder with no chance of making progress. If we are to find a solution it will have to come from the political parties within the Province, and the framework is designed to achieve that.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on frontier incidents in Northern Ireland.

There have been no incidents between British and Irish forces, although there have, in the course of the past eight years, been a number of occasions on which our forces, or those of the Irish Republic, have accidentally crossed the border. So far as terrorism is concerned, as I told the House on 6th March, co-operation between the two police forces is good, but the border remains an ingredient in much of the terrorist violence in both North and South.

In view of the incredibly fine spirit of the great majority of United Kingdom citizens in Ulster in defiance of the IRA, is the right hon. Gentleman really satisfied that we are getting full and genuine co-operation between the Army and the Republic in the fight against the IRA?

During the time that I have been Secretary of State for Northern Ireland the Army of the South has been giving greater co-operation than previously. Although there is good RUC-Garda co-operation, it is not easy to have British Army-Irish Army co-operation in respect of some of the frontier incidents.

Has my right hon. Friend's Department given any serious thought to the possibility that shifting the border might diminish cross-border violence?

I would hate to have the task of shifting 300 miles of border.

Has the Secretary of State any further information on how the M60 machine gun was introduced into the Province? Can he tell us on which side of the border or where training in the use of this weapon is taking place?

I cannot give any further information to the House. As I said earlier, there is no reason why this matter should not be discussed officially. One man has been charged and is being held in connection with the M60 machine gun during the exhibition in January.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that despite what he said on Monday evening and again this afternoon, the Minister for Foreign Affairs of the Republic said yesterday that there was not a shred of evidence to support the assertion that he is making? What will he do to convince the authorities in Dublin of what is happening along the border?

It is quite clear that 2 per cent. of border incidents are consistently mentioned. That represents only those incidents which are indisputably cross-border because commanding officers or eye witnesses have seen attacks being carried out from over the border in the Republic. That is the definition of the 2 per cent.