asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will convene a special conference on unemployment in Scotland under his chairmanship, to include all industrial organisations and local authorities.

No, Sir.

Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider that decision? Has he noticed that yesterday's unemployment figures showed that there are no fewer than 191,906 Scots out of work? Will he not hold such a meeting as I have suggested, preferably on Glasgow Green, where he could invite the 106,906 people who were in good jobs under a Tory Government but are now out of jobs under a Labour Government? He could then explain to them what was meant by "Back to Work with Labour".

I do not think that Glasgow Green is an appropriate place. We discuss with the Scottish Trades Union Congress, the CBI, the Scottish Council (Development and Industry), the local authorities and others concerned the very serious problems of unemployment. The hon. Gentleman should look at the figures with some care. There has been a drop in seasonally adjusted un- employment, and unemployment this month has improved in Scotland as against the rest of the United Kingdom. I thought that that might just be the signal for the hon. Gentleman to make some encouraging comments.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the anxiety about unemployment in Ayrshire was heightened today when we read in the Glasgow Herald that local authority deputations are in London trying to divert traffic from Prestwick to Edinburgh? Will he confirm that in no way will the present Government accept a diminution of the role of Prestwick airport, with all that that implies for the level of employment in the county?

The deputations are not to me, but I draw my hon. Friend's attention to what was said in the White Paper by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade.

In view of the increase in moonlighting, or the secondary economy, and also the difficulty of getting skilled labour for some jobs, does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that a reduction in taxation and still further improved training facilities might do something to reduce the unemployment figures?

Now that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland has taken over responsibility for the Manpower Services Commission in Scotland, there is a further arm of the Scottish Office dealing with the whole question of employment. The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that special care is being taken over the matter of training and skill match. These studies are being conducted by the Commission, and the Government have taken careful note of the measures suggested by the Training Services Division. It is encouraging to note that many more young people are now in training and will go into training in future years.

Leaving aside the question of young people who are going into training—which we welcome—I remind the right hon. Gentleman that many young people are also in the labour market. Can he indicate to those who have left school this year when they are likely to get their first job?

No one wants to answer hypothetical questions about when people are going to get their first jobs. The Training Services Division does a lot for training. The hon. Gentleman should know that recently we introduced a youth opportunities programme. We now have also the special temporary employment programme. I recognise that these various short-term measures are no substitute for a real job, but they have been of considerable advantage in providing jobs for some 60,000 people in Scotland.

If my right hon. Friend held such a meeting, would he also invite the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph), along with his Scottish Tory cohorts, to explain that he wants complete cuts in grants and subsidies to industry? Is it not the grossest hypocrisy of the Opposition to complain about the unemployment situation when they wish to have massive cuts in public expenditure, which would double unemployment?

If I were to speak at any conference concerned with unemployment, my first point would be that the Government, even in the course of the last year, in terms of selective financial assistance to industry, have given about £23 million to companies in Scotland and that this has been very helpful in safeguarding jobs and creating new ones. Secondly, we are all aware of the record of the Opposition in these matters. Thirdly, we are well aware of their record in voting against jobs for the shipyards, car workers, and many others.

Does the Minister agree that what he has said is a total distortion of Conservative policies and that the people of Scotland are fully aware of the simple fact that unemployment has doubled under this Government, and was never anything like as high as it now is when the Conservatives were in power?

There was no distortion at all in what I said. The voting record of the Conservatives is perfectly clear. They voted against jobs for car workers and they voted against jobs for shipyard workers. We all know from the speeches made by the right hon. Member for Leeds, North-East (Sir K. Joseph) that there would be massive cuts in public expenditure under a Conservative Government, and certainly this would have an effect on employment in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, in view of the Educational Institute of Scotland conference decision to limit composite class sizes to 25 in primary schools, if he will provide the necessary finance to enable education authorities to employ more teachers in primary schools.

The Government's expenditure plans include provision for the employment of teachers in excess of the standards which have been allowed for over the last few years, and this was reflected in the rate support grant settlement for 1978–79. It is, however, for education authorities to determine how the available resources should be used.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that no one on the Labour Benches can justify a confrontation with the teachers at the end of August on this issue? Will he give an assurance that negotiations will continue between the EIS, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the Scottish Education Department during the summer months in order to resolve this issue, and that he will provide the small amount of necessary finance to resolve this problem and provide the extra teachers?

I think that my hon. Friend knows that these matters are in the first instance for discussion between the management side and the teachers' side of the Scottish teachers' service and conditions committee. No doubt these matters are being pursued there, or will be pursued there.

Will the Secretary of State admit that the complacency shown in his answer to his hon. Friend the Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr. Lambie) is totally unacceptable to the teaching profession throughout Scotland? Is he aware that the rigid application of circular 819, which his Government have consistently refused to negotiate, has meant a levelling down of standards in many educational establishments in Scotland, and that young children have suffered as a result of it?

The fact is that circular 819 and the Red Book are not being rigidly applied, and the number of teachers in Scottish schools at the present time is substantially beyond the figures laid down in the circular. At the present time there are. I think, about 1,300 teachers more than would be required to meet the standards in our Scottish schools.

Does the Minister appreciate the dangers of serious disruption in the education of primary schoolchildren which may arise as a result of this unilateral action by the EIS, a body which usually acts responsibly in these matters? Will he say what steps he will take immediately to try to put at rest the fears of parents whose children may well be affected within the next few weeks by this decision?

I can only repeat that these are matters for negotiation between the management and the teachers' side. That is what the management side—the local authorities—wants to happen. It wants negotiation to take place, and no doubt it will.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has for the early improvement of the A75 Gretna-Stranraer trunk road, with particular reference to a ring road at Dumfries.

A contract has recently been awarded for an improvement at Shennanton, and nine other major schemes are planned for the road in the period up to March 1984. The need for a bypass of Dumfries will be discussed with Dumfries and Galloway regional council following the recent publication of its Dumfries traffic study.

Will the Minister come to Dumfries this weekend or next and see for himself the complete traffic chaos in that town, which has earned it the reputation of being the worst bottleneck in Britain? Will he throw the whole weight of the Scottish Office into resolving the problem, following his discussions with the regional council and preparation of plans for the ring road?

I know that the hon. Gentleman understands traffic jams. He and I were involved in them last weekend in places some miles away from Dumfries. Nevertheless, I think that he will accept from me that copies of the study report were received by the Scottish Office only on 21st June last and that we are still awaiting the technical appendices, without which the validity of any discussions or conclusions cannot be assessed.

Is the Minister aware that the Newton Stewart bypass is nearing completion? Is he ready now to start on the construction of the next bypass in line? Which one will it be, and when will it start?

I said in my main answer that nine other major schemes are planned for this road. I understand the difficulties of this road. It is worth pointing out that in these times of so-called difficulty with expenditure we spent £69·9 million on trunk roads and £124·3 million on other roads. That is a fair amount of money by any standards, but I take the hon. Gentleman's point and note the concern that he has expressed.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has to authorise a new road bridge across the Forth between Kincardine and Stirling.

None. It would be for the Central regional authority to consider the need for such a bridge and then determine whether and when to include it in the roads and transport programme for submission to the Secretary of State.

I think the Minister will be aware that both the Central regional authority and Fife have proposals on this subject. When they reach the Scottish Office, will he give special consideration to a road across the Forth from Alloa, thereby giving Clackmannanshire direct access to the motorway system and, secondly, creating a labour market for Bandeath?

I think the hon. Gentleman will accept that it has never been the practice of any Government Department to make a judgment on proposals that it has not seen. We are still awaiting the regional authority decision on the question of an additional crossing. When we receive its views, we shall study them with some care, and take account of the hon. Gentleman's views.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to announce the outcome of the planning appeal made in connection with the proposed new terminal buildings for Dundee airport.

Tayside regional council wants to re-site the existing terminal buildings at Riverside airport and has asked me to withdraw a direction I made in August 1977 restricting the grant of planning permission for further development at the airport until the approval of a structure plan. I have written to the council asking for further information on its proposal before I reach a decision on its request.

I appreciate the difficulties that the Minister faces, but this matter has now been under review by his Department for about four months. Will he bear in mind that Dan-Air has indicated an interest in putting in a scheduled service to Dundee airport but that because the present terminal facilities are over a quarter of a mile away from the runway it has declined to do so? Does he agree that this matter is very important, if Dundee is to be brought into the mainstream of air commmunications in Scotland?

I know the problems at the airport and I know the reasons why the authority would like to re-site the terminal, but I think that I am entitled to ask it for information, for example, about environmental considerations and whether this could be taken as a further development of the airport, which, of course, is not really in line with the previous direction. My Department wrote to it on 11th July. When I get a reply I shall certainly consider it as quickly as possible.

In considering the future of Scottish airports, will the Secretary of State take account of the delegation from Lothian regional council, which is visiting the Department of Trade this afternoon to press for Edinburgh airport to be allowed to utilise scheduled transatlantic routes?

We must have fair play. The hon. Member for Edinburgh, Pent-lands (Mr. Rifkind) ought to have tabled a Question about Edinburgh airport.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is satisfied with the housing plans submitted by local authorities.

Most authorities have produced creditable housing plans, given the difficulties involved in introducing the new system. In general, however, authorities recognise that they will require to make a more thorough examination of housing needs and improve arrangements for forecasting and managing their spending programmes. My Department will be discussing these aspects with authorities.

Is my right hon. Friend convinced that all local authorities are giving sufficient priority to building more council houses? For example, will he point out to the SNP-controlled Falkirk district council that there are more than 300 families on the waiting list in the Denny, Banknock and Bonnybridge area alone, yet it has submitted no plans to build any council houses during the current year?

I do not think that I need to point it out to the council, because this has already been done by my hon. Friend.

In that context, will the Secretary of State look very seriously at the decision taken by Strathclyde regional council to overturn plans submitted for housing extensions in Strathkelvin district and Cumbernauld?

I really cannot answer that sort of detailed question on the general Question that is on the Order Paper at the moment.

Will the Secretary of State give an assurance that as a matter of policy he will not approve any housing plan which does not include a firm proposal for dealing with derelict council property and derelict estates, before even more of them fall into disrepair than are now falling into disrepair all over the country?

That is not happening all over the country. The position varies from one area to another. So far as there is a problem, it is taken into account in any response that I make to a housing plan.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, in the light of evidence sent to him, he is satisfied with the system of progression of Scottish schoolchildren from school to university, particularly to universities in the United Kingdom outside Scotland; what information he has on how many Scottish schoolchildren attend university elsewhere in the United Kingdom and which universities are principally involved: and if he expects the pattern to change in the future.

The opportunities for Scottish schoolchildren to enter a university are as good as those for pupils in any other part of the United Kingdom. In 1976 13 per cent. of British undergraduate entrants to United Kingdom universities were of Scottish origin. In that year about 1,700 Scottish undergraduates were studying at universities elsewhere in the United Kingdom. Information about the individual universities they attended is not readily available. I do not foresee any significant change in the present pattern.

Has my hon. Friend now read the report in The Times Educational Supplement, and the report in the Glasgow Herald of a few weeks ago, describing a private scheme whereby Oxford University operates through a few select, mainly fee-paying, secondary schools in Scotland regarding entrance to that university. If that kind of elitism prevails, how long will it be before my hope is fulfilled of getting a Lumphanan boy as head of the Civil Service?

I think that my hon. Friend will have to wait until a day when justice is done and he becomes the Master of Trinity.

As a graduate of an English university, may I assure the Minister that I never found it to be a hindrance to my joining the Scottish National Party?

I am afraid that most hon. Members would not agree.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now publish a White Paper on the Scottish economy.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will publish a White Paper on the Scottish economy.

I have no plans to do so.

Does the Secretary of State not think that he has an obligation to rethink the Government's economic policy and present new proposals to the Scottish people, as unemployment is almost 200,000 in the height of summer, despite the boost in Scotland of tourist jobs? Is it not now very clear that the Government were elected on a bogus prospectus and that their plans are not working? Can the right hon. Gentleman say in particular how many jobs were lost because of the sudden removal of the regional employment premium and how many further jobs are expected to be lost as a result of increasing national insurance contributions?

My right hon. Friend the Minister of State has already mentioned yesterday's unemployment figures, which showed a further reduction of seasonally adjusted unemployment in Scotland. The relative position of Scotland, compared with the United Kingdom as a whole, has improved over the past few months. I certainly hope that it will continue to improve, because we want to see the figures considerably reduced.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that everyone is becoming a little fed up listening to him giving the same old story and playing the same old record, month after month, at Scottish Question Time, and that the silver lining never seems to appear? Are the Government not publishing a White Paper because they do not know what to put in it or because they dare not show in it what the situation is?

If I thought that it would be useful to publish a White Paper I would do so. I do not think that it would be appropriate at present.

If my right hon. Friend were to change his mind and publish a White Paper, would he be in a position to indicate what progress had been made with the Moss Morran project and the radio hazard affecting Moss Morran and Fife? The project will provide a considerable number of jobs in that area.

My hon. Friend knows the position. I have made a provisional decision, but I will be circulating other documents about the possible radio hazards. I hope to be able to do that quite soon.

Where unemployment is as it is in Dumfries and Galloway, of the order of 9 per cent. rising in Upper Nithsdale to 19 per cent., does not the right hon. Gentleman think that much more fundamental action is required by the Government? Does he agree that he must look at areas of taxation in relation to industry, employees and small businesses if he is to make any dramatic impact in the next few months?

I think that it was only at the last Scottish Question Time that I gave quite a number of examples of the way in which the burden of taxation on small firms had been reduced by this Government. It is also true that for larger firms corporation tax is a very small burden at present.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects that the referendum on the Government's proposals for devolution in Scotland will now be held.

I cannot give a date at present.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the sooner the question of devolution is sorted out completely, and the uncertainty removed, the better? Will he fix the date for a referendum in September, with a view to having the Assembly elections as soon as possible after that?

I agree that it would be useful if we could get the Bill on the statute book as soon as possible. As I believe the hon. Gentleman knows, it is proceeding pretty well at present. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman should direct his remarks to the other place.

Why was it that for the European Community referendum the Government could give us the date of polling before we reached the vote on Second Reading, yet now that we have completed virtually all the stages of the Scotland Bill they are still unable to give a date for the referendum? Is my right hon. Friend aware that on previous occasions he said that there are many reasons for this circumstance? Can he give us just one?

The circumstances concerning the EEC Bill and the Scottish Bill are entirely different. My hon. Friend must be aware of that.

Is it the case that the date of the referendum cannot be announced until the difficulties over dead men having the vote, double voting for students, and so on, are cleared out of the way? What progress is being made to clear up that problem?

These are matters that will be relevant when we discuss the Order in Council on the referendum. I have been giving a good deal of thought to the matter in recent months. Some of the problems, at least, are not insuperable. The hon. Gentleman knows the Government's view on the 40 per cent. hurdle. We do not believe that it should have gone into the Bill.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance to the House today that before we rise for the Summer Recess he will intimate the date when the referendum will take place?

I do not think that I can add to what I have already said. The hon. Gentleman is very impatient to get the referendum, of course, because at one time he was a keen supporter of devolution.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now make a statement regarding the negotiations between the employers' and employees' sides of the National Joint Council and his Department regarding the anomalies in the pay and conditions of local government employees since local government reorganisation.

My noble Friend the Minister of State has arranged to meet both sides on 28th July. The resolution of anomalies must be done through the normal negotiating machinery for pay settlements and in the light of pay policy.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that within the same employing authority there can be a difference of as much as £20 a week in the wages of employees doing exactly the same job? That has been going on now for more than three years. Does the Minister regard that as fair? Is he aware that this matter has been shuttled back and forth between local authorities, the NJC and the Government Department responsible for pay policy? In the interests of equity and justice, will he please do everything he can to resolve this?

I understand that there are anomalies. My right hon. Friend is to see the organisation concerned, at its request. This has to be a matter for employers and employees. There is nothing in the Government regulations or guidelines that prevents the anomalies from being ironed out, provided, of course, the organisations concerned regard the guidelines seriously.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the differences in pay originally arose because the people were employed by different education authorities—in the one case by the city of Aberdeen, which was a Labour-controlled education authority, paying reasonable wages, and in the other by a county authority failing to live up to its responsibilities? Might not one of the reasons why the levelling-up process is not taking place quite so quickly be that control of education in the Grampian region is now in the hands of a Conservative administration?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that suggestion. I can only repeat what I said in my original answer and in the following supplementary answer. This matter must be resolved by the local authorities and their employees within the Government guidelines. It is very important that it should be done in that way.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the grossly unsatisfactory nature of the right hon. Gentleman's reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the number of malaria cases in Scotland at the most recent convenient date; and if he will make a statement.

Forty-one cases of malaria were notified in Scotland during the first six months of this year. There is no significant change from the level of notifications in 1976 and 1977.

Is my hon. Friend aware that a statement was made on the radio by the medical officer for Lanarkshire that the number of cases was on the increase, not only in Scotland but throughout the United Kingdom? Is enough publicity given to the matter? Is knowledge of the areas where people can be vulnerable to this illness made available? Is the appropriate medical treatment also available to those who wish to visit those parts of the world?

It is true that the number of cases is on the increase. In the United Kingdom as a whole there has been an increase of about 25 per cent., but there has not been that increase in Scotland. As I said, the notifications in Scotland reflect no change between 1976 and 1977, although between the previous two years there was an increase of about 80 per cent. We are concerned about such diseases. The chief medical officer for Scotland has written to doctors in Scotland to draw the matter to their attention.

Does the Minister accept that in the days when there was a tropical diseases unit in Scotland in the 1960s a higher proportion of the population, per capita, had malaria diagnosed than in England and Wales, and that the position is now reversed? Is he satisfied that we have sufficient facilities in Scotland to provide for the early diagnosis of malaria cases, so that we can have speedy cures?

I certainly could not accept the implication of that question, which is that there are many people going around Scotland with malaria simply because it has not been diagnosed. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that anyone with malaria will very soon have it diagnosed. I am satisfied that Scotland has the facilities to meet what is a fairly low level of demand.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many fishery protection vessels are now operating in waters of the 200-mile limit off the west of Scotland; and how many aircraft patrols fly each week over this area.

Two offshore vessels and either two or three inshore vessels are normally on fishery protection patrol in west of Scotland waters at any one time. Additional surface surveillance is available as circumstances require. Royal Air Force Nimrods patrol the area regularly and are currently giving it close attention.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that there will be a big extra strain on the fishery protection services when, in October, the pout box is extended and when—I think it is in November—the minimum mesh sizes have to be surveyed much more rigorously than before—a matter in which the aeroplanes cannot play a part?

I think that I have said in the House before that I believe that our fishery protection forces are adequate to do the job. I think that all experience shows that that is so. Perhaps I may take the west of Scotland as an example. Since 1st January this year there have been boardings of 66 foreign vessels, and there is a similar level of activity in other parts of our waters.

Does the Secretary of State agree that it is blatantly obvious that his fishery protection vessels are not adequate to do the job? Is he aware that his Minister of State was unaware of the presence of Norwegian vessels in the west of Scotland in recent weeks? Is it not time he sought the co-operation of the industry much more than he has in the past, in reporting the presence of poachers?

The hon. Gentleman is talking absolute nonsense. There is no question of inadequate facilities. We were perfectly aware that Norwegian and Dutch vessels were fishing off the west of Scotland before the ban was imposed.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that at present there is a considerable amount of aerial surveillance in the North Sea and over the west coast, as a result of which reports are made on all vessels, whether they are passing through or whether they are fishing? This is a worthwhile scheme, operated by the Nimrods. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we need to keep our fishery protection fleet and the aircraft surveillance operating at full speed in order to check quickly what has happened?

Yes, Sir. I certainly agree. We must deploy the forces depending on where the problem is at any particular time. But there is no evidence that we have inadequate surveillance. The industry does not complain about this.

Has the right hon. Gentleman gathered from the industry that it is satisfied that the protection available will be adequate to deal with the substantial increase in the work load in consequence of the extra conservation measures?

I frequently see representatives of the industry. There has never been a complaint to me, over all the period that I have been meeting them, about the level of surveillance in the North Sea or anywhere else.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has now reached a decision regarding the administration of List D schools.

My right hon. Friend hopes to do so shortly.

Is the Minister aware of the uncertainty felt by managers and staff in these institutions as the discussions drag on, as he must know they have done, for several years? When will he make a statement and come to a conclusion on this matter? Will he do so before the House rises? If not, why not?

I cannot promise that my right hon. Friend will manage to make a statement before the House rises, which will not be long. But the hon. Member should know that I have had many meetings with the many interests involved. The major problem is that the Roman Catholic Church, the Church of Scotland, the STUC, the staff associations and others are opposed to the transfer of the schools to the regional authorities. The hon. Gentleman's Government and our Government took the view that the schools should come under the control of democratically elected personnel who are in the regional authorities. That is the main difficulty. We must resolve it by winning the argument. The discussions are going on, and my right hon. Friend hopes to make a statement shortly.

Can my hon. Friend explain to me why the Church of Scotland, the Roman Catholic Church, the STUC and the staffs concerned in the schools are all against changing the administration of the schools? Can he explain who is in favour of it?

I am sorry that we do not have a long enough Question Time to deal with that question.

Give us one who is in favour.

Perhaps I may be allowed to name two or three. They include the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the Advisory Council on Social Work, the Association of Directors of Social Work, and the reporters to children's panels. I think that we would all agree that the combination of the Church of Scotland, the Roman Catholic Church and the STUC is a formidable one.

Does the Minister agree that while this haggle is going on grave difficulties within the schools require to be resolved? Has he any comment to make on, for example, the length of stay of the pupils in the schools and the plans, which at present appear to be in total limbo, for what happens to the pupils when they leave the schools?

I do not deny that there is a problem about youngsters leaving the schools and about the follow-up. I have had many discussions with the bodies which run the schools, including the Churches.

Has not the decision-making process been dragging on for about three years? The Government have also failed to implement their promise in connection with the Children Act 1975 that they would introduce reforms in the children's panels. Is not that an indication also of the paralysis in decision-making that seems to affect the Scottish Office these days?

I would think that the recent election results show more of a paralysis within the Scottish National Party. Going on to the major point, I can say that we are aware that there is a great deal of interest in List D schools at present.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he now expects the Friarton Bridge, Perth, to be opened.

Recent bad weather has delayed completion, but it is hoped that one carriageway with a two-way working will be open by the end of July. The second carriageway should be completed by the end of September.

Why will the M85 over the Friarton Bridge be the only piece of motorway bridging in the United Kingdom not to have lights on it? Is not that discrimination against Scotland? When will the Scottish Office do something about it? This is an oil route.

I could give many answers to that question. I should draw the attention of the House to the fact that the hon. Gentleman said earlier that he was educated at an English university. We all have handicaps. I am sorry that the other part of the double act keeps making noises, so that I cannot get my sparkling supplementary replies in. Therefore, I shall let my case rest.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that there is gross discrimination against the kingdom of Fife, where one has to pay to get in and out on toll bridges, whereas one can cross on the Friarton Bridge for free?

I cannot answer that question without notice. I shall convey the point to my right hon. and noble Friend who deals with these matters on a day-to-day basis.

As Scotland has had a particularly good spring and summer, how is it that the Scottish Office appears to be suffering particularly bad weather?

The paucity of questions coming from Opposition Members today does not indicate a great deal of interest in these matters. The difference in Scotland has not been the weather; it has been the change in political climate, to the advantage of the Government.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement about the position of Lewis Offshore Ltd., in the Western Isles.

The Government have considered a number of proposals, but in the absence of orders no solution has emerged which would provide a secure future for the yard. I understand that virtually all the remaining employees were made redundant on 30th June but that the company is keeping the yard on a care and maintenance basis in the hope of attracting further orders.

Is the Minister aware that the problems of Scotland are not the sole prerogative of those who live in Scotland or of those who represent Scottish constituencies? Is he aware that a Sub-Committee of the Expenditure Committee visited Scotland and the Western Isles, and is deeply concerned about the problems of employment in the Western Isles? Will he also appreciate that Lewis Offshore Ltd. is vital to the future prosperity and well-being of the Western Isles? Bearing in mind the Government's considerable involvement in North Sea oil through BNOC, will he ensure that orders by BNOC are brought forward to ensure that Lewis Offshore Ltd. continues to play a part in the life of the Western Isles?

I take the hon. Gentleman's first point. Any hon. Member, irrespective of where he comes from, is entitled to be interested in Scottish affairs. Indeed, as we have always said from the Dispatch Box, we want to preserve the economic integrity of the United Kingdom. I noted the fact that the hon. Gentleman finds a great deal in favour of BNOC, which indicates his support for nationalisation, but I am bound to say to him that I cannot ask BNOC to direct work to any particular yard in that way. The hon. Gentleman will know that there is a shortage of orders and that a number of yards in Scotland are in competition. It would be very wrong for the Government to try to direct anyone to a particular yard.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there was great anger and frustration in the area over the failure of the Government to provide the very modest sum that was required to keep the yard going until order business picked up? Is he aware that within two months the unemployment rate has doubled, from 6 per cent. to 12 per cent.? Will he bear that in mind?

The right hon. Gentleman might give the Government a little credit for the fact that a great deal of Government money was put into this facility in the first place. He might turn his attention and his criticism to those in the company who are responsible for this situation. After all, we in Government have given considerable financial assistance in order to provide employment in Stornoway.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that while there is great disappointment at the final results at Lewis Offshore Ltd., there was a great deal of appreciation for the work done in making available to the company the possibility of tenders when work becomes available? Will my right hon. Friend confirm that Lewis Offshore Ltd. was offered temporary employment subsidy, but that this could not be given because the company refused to withdraw its redundancy notices?

I indicated to the company, as did my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment, that the temporary employment subsidy was available. I also indicated this fact when I met the Lewis action group, but the company did not take this up because it was not prepared to accept the conditions connected with the temporary employment subsidy.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement as to the future status of those teaching business studies in Scottish schools if the present three-year diploma in commerce course is replaced by a new four-year degree course.

The Scottish teachers' salaries memorandum 1976 recognises teachers holding the diploma in commerce awarded by the board for the diploma in commerce as equivalent for salary purposes to graduate teachers. Those holding the diploma with honours are recognised as equivalent to honours graduates. Any change in this arrangement would be a matter for the Scottish Teachers' Salaries Committee.

Will the hon. Gentleman give a little more thought to this matter? A great deal of concern has been caused, and I have had many letters from constituents. Surely, if the qualification is to be changed those who have been teaching under the old qualification should not be placed in an inferior status.

I agree with what the hon. Gentleman said. He will appreciate that various bodies are involved, as there are in all aspects of education. There are the Council for National Academic Awards, which is an independent body, the General Teaching Council, which is also an independent body, and the Scottish Teachers Salaries Committee, which has an independent chairman. Discussions are still going on. So far as I am aware, no action will be taken which will jeopardise the salary position of those who at present hold this award.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received on the setting up of a tertiary education council; and whether he will institute an inquiry into post-school education, in view of the interests in this possibility shown by the Department of Education and Science.

There has been a very encouraging response to the consultative paper that I issued earlier this year. The proposal to establish a council has been generally welcomed, and I hope to make an announcement shortly about its terms of reference. The comments that I have received have not persuaded me of the need for a separate inquiry into post-school education.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give the House an assurance that this statement will be made before the House rises for the recess, especially in view of the fact that many weeks ago he gave an assurance, in a parliamentary answer, that a statement would be made shortly?

We are getting many requests today. I suppose it depends on when the recess comes. What I can say to the hon. Gentleman is that I hope to make an announcement about this matter very shortly.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that will be much welcomed by the Scottish council of the Labour Party, which has been pressing for such a council for some time and, indeed, for an inquiry into tertiary education? In considering the appointment of members to the council, will he ensure that those members are there in their own right and not as delegates representing sectional interests? I believe that that has been one of the problems of the General Teaching Council. Finally, will he also include the question of the relationships of the various sectors of tertiary education and the possibility of cross-transference of students?

My hon. Friend's latter point is the kind of problems which the council, when established, could well consider. I shall certainly take account of what he said in the earlier part of his supplementary question. I want anyone appointed to the council to take a very wide view of its work and not simply to represent one interest.

Has the Minister considered the effect of devolution on this inquiry? Might it not prove to be just a waste of time?

The hon. Member is remarkably ignorant, even for him. This inquiry arises out of devolution. We want to have a council that will embrace post-school education—which will be under the Assembly—and the university sector The inquiry is specifically designed to deal with the situation when the Assembly is established.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action is being taken to monitor dust emissions from King's Quarry. Croy.

Her Majesty's industrial pollution inspectorate measures periodically the grit and dust emission from the two coating plants and inspects the premises regularly. The inspectorate is discussing with the firm the practicability of further action to reduce other emissions of dust—for example. from the crushers and the stockpiles of crushed rock. Cumbernauld district council has installed one gauge at the nearest houses to measure deposits of grit and dust

Is the Minister aware that my constituents in Croy are grateful for the recent interest shown by the Scottish Office in this problem? However, does he agree that if it is shown that there is a high level of dust emission to the disadvantage of my constituents in an environmental and health sense he will join me in pressing for new regulations that will be more effective?

We are carefully examining the work not only at this particular quarry but at others throughout the country In this particular case the firm has a reasonably good record in undertaking a useful job. I can asusre the hon. Lady that the situation will be constantly monitored, that discussions will take place and that suggestions will be made about how to improve it.

asked the Lord Advocate what discussions he has had with the Law Commission regarding the operation of the "not proven" verdict in Scotland; and if he will make a statement.

I have had no discussions on this subject with the Scottish Law Commission. However, I am in favour of retaining this form of verdict.

Has my right hon. and learned Friend considered that the "not proven" verdict in Scotland was introduced to give some degree of protection against the contingency of unfair trials arising out of the repressive statute introduced during the reign of Charles II, 1660 to 1685? This is no longer a threat to honest justice in this country. Will my right hon. and learned Friend bear in mind that it has been reported recently that 30 persons charged with murder were, in spite of insufficient evidence, found not proven guilty? These people have to live under the cloud of suspicion for the rest of their lives. Is it not time that my right hon. and learned Friend ended this system of lazy justice in Scotland?

I hope that my hon. Friend is not suggesting that acquittal by a court is a sign of injustice. Surely in the very circumstances that he describes it would appear that justice had been done. The suggestion that the verdict of not proven is illogical and is out of date is unfounded. I should have thought that it was eminently logical. One may think that a man has committed a crime, but the requirements of the law have not quite been met. In such circumstances it would seem wrong to give such a person a certificate of innocence. The Bryden Committee on identification procedure recently drew attention to the fact that the "not proven" verdict is a very important safeguard against injustice, for example, through misidentification.

Will the Lord Advocate accept that the "not proven" verdict is an essential safeguard because in Scotland, unlike in England and Wales, a person can be convicted of the most serious crime on an eight-to-seven vote of the jury? A substantial majority verdict is required south of the border.

On this occasion I agree with the hon. Member without qualification.

asked the Lord Advocate when he intends next to meet the Law Society of Scotland.

I have arranged to meet the president of the Law Society of Scotland on 28th July 1978.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the Law Society is experiencing considerable inconvenience because documents issued by Her Majesty's Stationery Office in London are available often 24 hours later in Scotland? Will he have a word with the Civil Service Minister to see whether documents issued in London can he made available in Scotland at the same time and not a good deal later, as appears to be the practice at present?

I am not quite sure whether the hon. Member is complaining about or praising the Stationery Office. If documents issued in London are available in Scotland within 24 hours, I should have thought that that was a matter for praise. If he is saying that such documents should be issued at an identical time in Scotland and England, I shall have to look into the matter to see whether it is possible.

When the Lord Advocate meets the Law Society, will he discuss the continuing shortage of lawyers in certain parts of Scotland? Will he ask the Law Society whether it could cut down the period of legal education and encourage firms to take on more apprentices?

The right hon. Gentleman has taken up this matter with me on previous occasions. I have looked into it. However, it is very difficult to achieve a solution which does not involve some degree of direction of professionally qualified people. That, of course, would be unacceptable to the legal profession. The right hon. Member's last point is a good suggestion which I shall look into.

When the Lord Advocate meets representatives of the Law Society, will he raise with them the question of the report of the Law Reform Commission in Scotland on wife battering and property rights in the matrimonial home? Will he indicate what steps he is taking to implement the proposals in the report?

My hon. Friend is doubtless aware that implementation of the proposals mooted in this memorandum would not be my responsibility. That would be the responsibility of the Secretary of State for Scotland. The memorandum in question is merely a discussion document; it is not of the nature of firm recommendations or proposals.

When the Lord Advocate meets representatives of the Law Society, will he listen patiently to their concern about the injustice of the criminal summary appeals procedure where there is a rigid enforcement of the 10 days but where the legal aid certificate covers only the advice and not the very difficult area of legal expertise and drafting the grounds of the appeal? Does he agree that unrepresented appellants who are nervous and who do not have a copy of the judge's charge have the scales of justice weighted against them? What proposals does he offer us to put this matter right?

I should be wise to say that I will listen.

asked the Lord Advocate when he last paid an official visit to the Glasgow sheriff court.

I visited Glasgow sheriff court on 14th July 1978.

Is the Lord Advocate satisfied with the progress made in improving conditions in the sheriff court? Conditions have been appalling in recent times. In particular, can he say whether progress has been made in providing separate accommodation for witnesses for the defence and witnesses for the prosecution? Also, has progress been made on dealing with the delays in the court?

On the first matter, I have already indicated the pro- vision of two additional sheriff and jury courts. This has been of great assistance from the point of view of delay and better allocation of accommodation. However, it would be wrong to conceal the fact that the problem of accommodation is very acute in Glasgow sheriff court, and I cannot really hold out any prospect of being able to be certain that witnesses for the prosecution and defence will be kept in separate accommodation as long as the present stringent accommodation continues.

Has my right hon. and learned Friend had any representations that divorce cases should be heard in the Glasgow sheriff court, since there is a great deal of disquiet about taking High Court divorce action? Can he answer the question that is being asked widely in Glasgow and other parts of Scotland—why is it that Princess Margaret can get a divorce for £18 when she has considerable assets, while ordinary citizens in Scotland have to pay £400 or £500 for a divorce in the High Court?

I have had no such representations, but I stress that I have already undertaken to inquire into the cost of divorce. I have made arrangements for the information to be obtained within the next few months.

asked the Lord Advocate whether he is satisfied with the system of appointing people to public positions in the Crown Office.

I have no reason to be dissatisfied with the arrangements for appointments to positions in the Crown Office.

As this may be the last Scottish Question time before my right hon. and learned Friend retires, may I wish him every success for the future and hope that he does not follow the Tory precedent of appointing himself to the Bench? Does he agree that one of the most cogent reasons for voting Labour—if people are concerned about the future of law and order in Scotland—is to ensure that the post of Lord Advocate does not go to someone like the hon. and learned Member for Kinross and West Perthshire (Mr. Fairbairn)?

My hon. Friend has raised a number of issues which quite properly should be put down as separate Questions.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the last Lord Advocate most certainly did not appoint himself to the Bench?

The hon. Gentleman is right. The appointments are made by Her Majesty.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I seek your guidance on how to resolve my dilemma over Question No. 12, which was not called because the hon. Member for Sheffield Heeley (Hooley) was not present but which affects my constituency? Is there any way in which I can now make clear that the difficulty referred to at Hunters-ton B power station poses no possibility of danger to the public by nuclear radiation nor is there any chance of it?

I must tell the right hon. Lady that is the best point of order I have heard for a long time, especially since it was not really a point of order. It was well made.

rose—

Will the hon. Member for Sowerby (Mr. Madden) be kind enough to leave his point of order until after statements? As a general rule I wish to take points of order arising out out Questions immediately after Question Time but to take other points of order after statements have been made.