asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many persons under 18 years of age were registered as unemployed in Scotland at 3 May 1979 and 24 March 1981.

The age analysis of the unemployment register is carried out quarterly, in January, April, July and October. On 5 April 1979, 14,745 people under 18 years of age were registered as unemployed in Scotland. On 15 January 1981, the latest date for which information is available, the number was 30,623. These figures are not seasonally adjusted, and the January figures are normally higher because of the December school-leaving date.

Does not that reply expose the Government's disgraceful employment record? Does the Minister realise that the Government's economic policy has collapsed and that he is destroying the hopes and ambitions of young people? Will he admit to his failures and argue for a change of strategy?

The Government's strategy is on target. We are tackling the problems that we set out to solve in the correct order of priority. Since before the election, inflation has been top of the list.

As regards youth unemployment, does my hon. Friend agree that there is an urgent need to restructure the apprenticeship system? Does he accept that the apprenticeship system operates too often against young people and against industry, because it is too rigid and concentrates more on the length of time served than standards and achievements?

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment is busy studying such problems. My hon. Friend will know that the youth opportunities programme gives young people an opportunity to enhance their job prospects. Surveys show that 70 per cent. of participants in the programme are employed five months after leaving it.

Given the unemployment figures that the Minister has announced, how does he hope to motivate those who are in full-time education? Will he seriously consider introducing a mandatory grant system for those who are in full-time school education and who have no prospect of finding jobs when they leave school?

The hon. Gentleman is being over-pessimistic. As I said, 70 per cent. of those who have been on a youth opportunities programme scheme find employment after five months. Most of those who left school in December will find jobs within the next few months.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many small firms are inhibited from employing young people, because they have to comply with so many regulations?

My hon. Friend is correct. As my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Sproat) pointed out, the apprenticeship system does not increase the number of trainees and tends to restrict entry into the trades. Therefore, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment is re viewing the system.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on his assessment of the rate of growth of manufacturing industry in Scotland in the year 1981–82.

Budget forecasts suggest that United Kingdom manufacturing output might be 6 per cent. lower in 1981 than in 1980, but also that some recovery in the second half of this year is likely. On the basis of recent trends, I would expect activity in Scottish manufacturing industry to move broadly in line with that in the United Kingdom.

Is the Secretary of State suggesting that the recession is bottoming out in Scotland? How much investment will be made in manufacturing industry in 1981–82? Other nations are investing at the bottom of the recession. We want to be stronger than them rather than weaker, as is likely to be the case under this Government.

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's point. It seems to be the general view—and it is our advice—that the recession will bottom out some time during the year. The evidence suggests that Scotland's performance is at least no worse than that of the United Kingdom. It is hoped that Scotland will emerge more strongly from this recession than from any previous recession.

Does the Secretary of State not accept that one of the problems facing the Scottish economy is lack of indigenous financial control? Therefore, will he make representations immediately to his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade about the intended takeover of the Royal Bank of Scotland, because extreme damage would be done to Scotland if the bank were to fall into the hands of financial barracudas from overseas?

I have been concerned at the events of recent days. I have seen the chairman of the bank on a number of occasions, and I have been in touch with my right hon. Friend, who must decide whether this matter should be referred to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission.

Has my right hon. Friend had time to consider the analysis of the Chemical Industry Association of capital investment intentions in Scotland over the next three years, which shows that, while there will be a decline in the United Kingdom as a whole, there will be a 27 per cent. increase in capital investment in Scotland? Does he agree that an emphasis on that style of confidence in the Scottish economy would generally help us much more than the constant carping which we hear from the Opposition?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and I entirely agree with what he says. That analysis not only shows that there are signs of an investment revival in Scotland, but also that it is directly associated with North Sea oil development, which takes a great deal of Government money in various ways.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the widespread concern about the Royal Bank takeover, particularly following the second bid? It would be completely unforgiveable if that major Scottish institution went out of Scottish control without a reference to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission and without those bids being stopped by both the commission and the Minister. What is the right hon. Gentleman's own view on this? Is he pressing for a reference?

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, it is not customary for a Minister to reveal his representations to other members of the same Government. However, as I have made clear, I have been in touch with my right hon. Friend, who must make the decision.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress is being made in creating new job opportunities following the impending closure of the Talbot Linwood factory.

My right hon. Friend welcomes the undertaking given by trade union representatives, following the decision of the work force at Linwood to accept the closure, to help in the difficult task of generating new industrial development and employment. He has asked the SDA to study urgently the potential of the plant for use by one or by several companies. He looks to the local organisations represented on the ad hoc committee chaired by convener Charles O'Halloran to lend their support to these efforts.

That is not really an answer to anything. How many real jobs have been created in Strathclyde in the past month, and how many jobs have been lost? If the Minister cannot give the figures today, will he undertake to furnish the House with them as quickly as possible?

If that was the urgent matter which the hon. Gentleman wished to raise, I do not know why he did not table a question to that effect. I shall certainly furnish the information. The hon. Gentleman will have noticed reports in today's press that new jobs are coming to the Strathclyde area in considerable numbers.

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the Scottish Development Agency was asked to undertake this study on 13 February—eight weeks ago? What has it done in the last eight weeks?

The SDA is working in collaboration with the company, which is still producing cars at Linwood. It will report as soon as it has been able to survey the premises and decide what further use should be made of them—for example, whether they should be divided into several units or be retained as a large manufacturing plant.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I have a later question on the Order Paper about the Nissan-Datsun company? There is a feeling in Scotland that the Scottish Office has let the Scottish people down and that is has not shown any fight to bring this industry to Scotland. Is he aware that the Scottish Office has been accused of hanging on to the coat-tails of England and Wales? Will he now say categorically what the Scottish Office is doing for Scotland?

As usual, Labour Members are ill-informed. That is not the opinion which prevails in Scotland. For many months now, long before the news of this potential project hit the headlines, the Government were deeply involved with the Japanese company in considering this project. Any hon. Member who considered in detail the specification put forward by Nissan for a possible site in the United Kingdom must have known that Scotland stood only a slight chance of success. Nevertheless, my right hon. Friend, the Scottish Economic Planning Department and I have worked extremely hard to try to persuade Nissan to come to Scotland.

If there was only a slight chance of success, why did the Secretary of State try to put off the trade union delegation, which he met the other day to discuss alternative jobs for Linwood, by mentioning that project as one of the possibilities?

Because it was one of the possibilities.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action he proposes to take in view of the failure of Dundee district council to comply with the sale of council house provisions in the Tenants' Rights, Etc. (Scotland) Act 1980.

After considering the report of the public inquiry which I caused to be held on 23 February, I issued a default order on 23 March requiring the district council to instruct its officials to implement part I of the Tenants' Rights, Etc. (Scotland) Act. As the hon. Member will be aware, the council gave the required instruction on 30 March. I have consistently made it clear that this Government will not allow any local authority to deprive its tenants of their statutuory rights, and our determination on this point has been clearly demonstrated in Dundee.

I welcome the fact that the district council has quailed before the prospect of this question coming before my right hon. Friend. Does he not agree that the council's action has only caused misery and confusion to those tenants who wanted to buy their houses, and quite unnecessary expense to the ratepayers of Dundee who already face an enormous rates increase of over 150 per cent?

I agree with my hon. Friend. The least attractive aspect of this whole business has been the absolute contempt which the Dundee district council appears to have for its electors and those who wish to buy council houses.

Will the right hon. Gentleman inform the House of the circumstances surrounding the inquiry? How many individuals or groups of tenants came forward during the inquiry in support of his determination to sell council houses?

It is nice to see the hon. Gentleman back from his travels. The inquiry was not about that matter, but about whether Dundee council was or was not taking steps to implement its statutory obligations. It was on that basis that the matter was clearly resolved.

Does my right hon. Friend not think that the Dundee district council would be better occupied fulfilling the wishes of the people of Dundee to own their own council houses rather than shaming the whole of Scotland with its anti-semitic rantings and behaviour that we have seen over the last few weeks?

rose——

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Would the hon. Gentleman very much mind waiting until the end of Question Time? He can raise his point of order now if he wishes, but it will delay other questions.

Is it not a breach of the Rules of the House for the hon. Member for Edinburgh, South (Mr. Ancram) to suggest the democratically-elected Dundee district council is anti-semitic, when it made strenuous efforts to ensure——

Order. The hon. Gentleman cannot answer the argument now. What was said was not out of order.

rose——

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Very well. I shall take the point of order now and delay subsequent questions. I apologise to other hon. Members.

With respect, Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe that it is in order, on a question relating to council house sales, for an hon. Member to refer to alleged anti-semitism. I am sure that that is an abuse of the House.

Hon. Members on both sides of the House refer to matters which are totally outside the question on the Order Paper. If I try to ensure—as I shall try to do for the rest of the afternoon—that nothing other than what is in a question is referred to, we shall get through many more questions.

I am not surprised that Labour Members appear to want to waste time to avoid reaching some of their later questions. Apart from the political issues involved, I doubt whether anyone of any persuasion would dream of denying that the Dundee council has not done itself much good in publicity terms in the last few weeks.

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that it is not Dundee district council which has shown contempt for the electorate, but rather he himself in insisting on going ahead with his ill-advised policy of council house sales? Given the Government's weak electoral base in Scotland, will he listen to the genuine voice of public opinion in Scotland rather than to the handful of tenants who wish to buy their council houses? The vast majority of Scottish tenants do not want to buy and are rightly angry about the divisive results of a sales policy which flogs off on the cheap the best council housing in Scotland.

The absolute nonsense of that question is demonstrated by the fact that over 10,000 ordinary citizens in Scotland have already chosen to buy their houses and that there are a further 15,000 applications in the pipeline at the moment. That is an eloquent answer to the hon. Gentleman's nonsense.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he intends to simplify or otherwise change the building regulations in force in Scotland.

We shall publish a consolidated edition of the Building Standards (Scotland) Regulations later this year which will include amendments and presentational improvements. It will provide a base for simplification of the regulations in the course of a review of the building control system in Scotland.

I welcome and appreciate any attempt to consolidate the building procedure regulations and all the amendments, and the building standards regulations and all the amendments made under them, into one—albeit very thick—volume, but will my hon. Friend be a little more forthcoming? Will he perhaps give it as his opinion that the building regulations in Scotland could be considerably simplified without detriment to safety or health factors? Will he also meet the other relevant Ministers to see whether those regulations could be unified throughout the whole of the United Kingdom?

We are continually looking for ways of simplifying the regulations, consistent with the public interest. I would not say that there is an argument for uniformity for its own sake, but where there are no significant differences it is obviously sensible to have similar regulations in different parts of the United Kingdom.

Am I being unduly suspicious or does this question really relate to Barratt's? In the circumstances, will the Minister assure me that there will be consultations with the clients' and consumers' interests before there is any reduction in building standards?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that we are looking not only at the application from Barratt's but also at the representations which have been received from local authorities and other legitimate interests. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, contrary views have been put forward as to the desirability or otherwise of reducing the present minimum space regulations in Scotland.

Will the Minister appreciate that, as a person who set up a factory in Scotland, giving employment in Scotland, I found it difficult to develop that factory because of the absence of standard building regulations? If the Minister wants to have more employment in Scotland in the making of building materials, he ought to standardise the building regulations in the United Kingdom.

Sometimes standardisation can lead to the sort of improvement to which my hon. Friend referred, but one has to take into account the fact that some of the different regulations that currently exist in Scotland are different for very good reasons. It would not necessarily follow that it would be in the interests of the people of Scotland that the regulatons should be made uniform with the rest of the United Kingdom.

Is the Minister aware that Costain's built a big hospital in Glasgow, at considerable public expense, and that it fell down? Will he give a categoric assurance that Barratt's will not be allowed to build houses in Dunfermline or anywhere in Fife that will be a fire hazard?

The hon. Gentleman can be assured that houses built in accordance with the building standards regulations will not normally fall down. The hon. Gentleman will have to await the outcome of the consideration that we are giving at the moment to the application from Barratt's.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is now able to make a statement on the report of the inquiry into the refusal by Kyle and Carrick district council to allow the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority to test bore at Mullwharcher near Loch Doon.

The report is under consideration, and a decision on the appeal will be announced as soon as possible.

Will the Minister explain the delay in making this announcement, as the Secretary of State has had the report for over three months, and as the overwhelming evidence was against the explorations taking place? Does the Minister appreciate that there is a huge pent-up feeling against these explorations, which could burst out into civil unrest if the Secretary of State overrules the decision of the democratically elected district council and the overwhelming views of the people in that area?

My right hon. Friend will not take into account the foolish rantings to which the hon. Gentleman has just subjected the House. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, these are important matters which are the subject of the appeal. It is right and proper that my right hon. Friend should give the fullest consideration to a complex matter. As soon as he can reach a decision on the matter, he will announce it in the usual way.

Will my hon. Friend agree that it is about time the hon. Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Foulkes) came clean on his attitude to nuclear power? The long-term storage of nuclear waste cannot be separated from nuclear generation. Does my hon. Friend wonder, as I do, whether the hon. Member for South Ayrshire has told his constituents and people in the neighbouring constituencies in Ayrshire that his policy would close down Hunterston, with a loss of over 1,000 jobs in that plant?

My hon. Friend is correct in suggesting that some of those who have made comments op this subject sometimes appear to find it difficult to reconcile two different points of view. The appeal that is at present before my right hon. Friend dealt not with the general question of nuclear power but with the specific question whether test borings should be made and certain buildings erected, which was the basis of the application made to the local authority.

When we are talking about equivocal or hyprocritical attitudes, should we not remember that the Secretary of State, as a Back Bencher, came out publicly against the borings when the previous Labour Government were in office?

My right hon. Friend will consider a planning application according to the normal rules of planning law. The right hon. Member for Glasgow, Craigton (Mr. Millan) would be the first to accept that that is the normal, proper and acceptable thing to do.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he next expects to meet the Scottish Confederation of British Industry to discuss unemployment.

My hon. Friend and I have met representatives of the CBI Scotland on several occasions and have made it clear that we are prepared to meet them whenever this would be useful. Our most recent meeting was on 18 March.

When the Secretary of State next meets the CBI, what sort of comfort will he be able to give its member companies and its thousands of employees in Scotland? With the number of bankruptcies now reaching an all-time historic high level, and with all of us in Scotland becoming inured to a daily catalogue of redundancies, closures and lay-offs, when will he realise that he cannot continue to ignore the advice from the employers and the unions? When will he realise that the policy of the Government is disastrously wrong for the people of Scotland?

I do not know where the hon. Gentleman gets his information. When the chairman of the CBI Scotland saw me on 18 March he made it clear that the CBI was totally in support of the Government strategy but only wished that a little more money could be found with which to help industry. I pointed out to him in return that if we had found more money it would have put up the minimum lending rate, which was the opposite of what the CBI wanted.

When my right hon. Friend next meets the CBI Scotland, will he discuss the image that various places have and how a wrong image can deter investment? Is he aware that the anti-Jewish activities in Dundee, which are the direct result of the flying of the PLO flag, are reminiscent of the early days of Hitler, and that this acts as a deterrent to investment?

Order. We have heard rather a lot about that this afternoon. The question relates to the Confederation of British Industry in Scotland.

I always wish that all parts of Scotland would bear in mind that what is done in support of various causes should help to attract new jobs rather than repel them. That is a very important point.

How can the Secretary of State still believe that the CBI Scotland is in favour of Government strategy, when it is making it clear that its comments about being broadly in favour of the strategy are only a peg on which to hang its argument that it wants the Government to change course, in view of the disastrous reality of the collapse of industry in Scotland?

The CBI has made it clear to me repeatedly that it does not wish the Government to change course. That is the answer to the hon. Gentleman.

Did the CBI produce to the Secretary of State any evidence to support his statement that the depression is bottoming out and that things are getting better? Is investment going up? Is restocking taking place? Is there specifically Scottish evidence that things are getting better?

There has been a good deal of Scottish evidence that firms are now getting orders in a much better way than they were. There are, for instance, the very interesting orders achieved by Redpath de Groot and UIE, recently, of the new developments in East Kilbride with Gray Tools, new orders obtained by John Brown Engineering, by Barr and Stroud, and by Caledonian Airmotive, to mention only a few. There are many indications.

In discussing unemployment with the CBI Scotland, has my right hon. Friend stressed the importance of building upon our considerable successes in the electronics industry and particularly the opportunities that will flow to that industry from the passing of the British Telecommunications Bill through Parliament?

I appreciate what my hon. Friend says. He is right in saying that the electronics industry in Scotland is one of the strongest features of our economy, even at this difficult time. Expansion in the electronics industry, producing many new jobs in the pipeline, can be found all across Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, in view of the substantial public investment in Talbot Linwood, he will take steps to ensure that the equipment and plant in Linwood be protected against destruction or removal by the company and that it be kept available for possible future manufacturing purposes in Linwood.

While acknowledging that the disposal of the plant and equipment at Linwood is primarily a matter for its owners, Talbot Motors, my right hon. Friend has asked the chairman of Talbot Motors to do what he can to ensure that the major facilities of the toolroom, die-casting foundry and press shop are retained.

Does not the Minister realise that almost £170 million of public money has been invested in Talbot UK? The company paid virtually nothing for the Linwood plant and has put nothing into it. Does not he consider that it is a national disgrace that this French company should be allowed to strip the assets of Linwood? Does not he agree that the Scottish Development Agency should take over the plant in its entirety at no additional cost?

I have already told the House that the SDA is surveying the plant to see how it can be best adapted to bring more jobs to the area in the future. On the amount of public financial support, I hope that all hon. Members will agree that, whatever the reason for the plant's failure, it was not due to shortage of Government financial support.

May I congratulate my hon. Friend on his statement about those areas of the plant which the trade unions have identified as possessing possible alternative uses outside the motor car industry? Will not he agree that concern on this issue underlines the necessity for the SDA study to be completed sooner rather than later?

Yes, Sir I agree that the SDA should complete its study urgently and quickly, as we have asked. I have every confidence that this will be achieved, although we must plan the action that we shall take before trying to bring many people together and, perhaps, working on the basis of opinions that would not stand up to proper examination. The important question of the die-casting foundry, the press shop and the toolroom was raised with my right hon. Friend by Mr. Livingstone, convener of the shop stewards. My right hon. Friend immediately took action with the company along the lines that I have already set out.

While we are glad to hear that the Secretary of State is in touch with the company about these facilities, may I ask whether it is likely that if, at the end of the day, they are to be retained at Linwood, there will have to be some kind of public money involved? Will that be made available?

We have to decide who should own the plant in the future, whether it should be the SDA, as happened in the case of the Singer plant, or whether there should be some alternative arrangement. Once my right hon. Friend has received reports from the SDA and other parties, he will make a decision on that important matter and the others.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the latest Scottish unemployment figures.

On 12 March, seasonally adjusted unemployment in Scotland stood at 264,600—11·7 per cent. While the continuing high levels of unemployment in Scotland are a cause for concern, I am encouraged by the slight fall in total unemployment in Scotland last month and by the fact that in recent months the underlying rate of increase in seasonally adjusted unemployment in Scotland has been slower than at the end of last year and less severe than in other parts of the United Kingdom.

Is the Secretary of State aware that, while most hon. Members are very concerned about the number of people who are unemployed, we are becoming increasingly concerned about the length of time that people are unemployed? What are we to tell constituents over 45 years of age who genuinely believe that under this Government and their policies they will never work again?

I share the right hon. Gentleman's concern about the level of unemployment and the long-term nature of much of it. There are two points to be made in answer to his question. The first is to tell such people that there are considerable signs of new orders being gained by many industries in Scotland. This will undoubtedly mean that some skilled people will be called back to work—as many as possible, I hope. Secondly, the right hon. Gentleman can tell them that, so far as long term unemployment is concerned, not only has the youth opportunities scheme been expanded by 75 per cent. but a new scheme for the older unemployed is coming into being.

While all hon. Members welcome the fact that my right hon. Friend is endeavouring to help the unemployed in Scotland, will he agree that Mitsubishi intends to create 200 to 300 more jobs in the course of the next year? This is the kind of activity that is welcome to Scotland.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. There are many such cases. I am glad that Mitsubishi is one of them. Apart from those that I gave to the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Grimond), there are numerous other examples of export orders won within the last six months by Volvo trucks, Rolls-Royce Aero-Engines, Anderson Strathclyde and, most recently, Babcock's, whose huge boiler order for a power station in Hong Kong will keep thousands of jobs going in the West of Scotland.

Is the Secretary of State aware that the optimistic forecasts he has made are not shared by many people? Fraser of Allander, for instance, has forecast an unemployment rate of 320,000 by the end of the year. Is the Secretary of State saying that he disagrees entirely with this forecast? Can he give any estimate of new jobs that are likely to be created this year?

If I spent my time looking at all the gloomy forecasts made by various economists—364 or any other number—I would never get my job done at all. I concentrate on the practical matter of trying to get the maximum number of jobs into Scotland. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that in the past year no fewer than 14,500 new jobs were created by the efforts of the various agencies in Scotland. As recent items in the press have shown, we expect many thousands more in the near future.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman ashamed that were it not for the relative buoyancy of employment in East Kilbride, for which the Government can claim no credit, and if it were not for the oil industry—which is a fortuitous quirk of nature—Scotland would be the poorest country in Europe?

Of all the people I expected to put questions on this subject today, the hon. Gentleman is the last. He must be the envy of every hon. Member, having received yesterday some splendid news about a new development in his constituency which I would have thought he would unreservedly welcome.

Will my right hon. Friend remind Opposition Members that, the present world recession aside, the main reason for the tragically high levels of unemployment is the uncompetitive state of British industry in relation to its international rivals? Will not he agree that the main reason for that uncompetitiveness is the fact that the trade unions have been their own worst enemies in insisting on overmanning, disproportionate wage demands, refusing to use new technology and other restrictive practices?

My hon. Friend is right in saying that the tragedy of unemployment and job losses in Scotland follows many years of policies pursued by the Labour Party. The greater tragedy is that every remedy that the Opposition now announce is a repetition of the old measures that have failed on every occasion when they have been put into effect.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many additional people have become unemployed in Scotland for each of the years 1977 to the present.

There was an increase in seasonally adjusted unemployment of 15,000 between March 1977 and March 1978, a fall of 6,100 between 1978 and 1979, an increase of 14,500 between 1979 and 1980, and an increase of 79,600 between 1980 and 1981.

Will the Secretary of State, in view of these escalating figures, undertake a review of development area policy? Is he aware that the Borders regional council has had to cancel a couple of projects because it cannot get the EEC funds which would have been available had it been a development area? This means a loss of employment in the Borders region.

I would like to see evidence of the instances that the right hon. Gentleman mentions. I appreciate the difficulties that the Borders has experienced. I have been to the area and talked to those concerned. In answer to the first part of the right hon. Gentleman's question, I do not think that I would be helping Strathclyde, which has a far higher level of unemployment than any part of the Borders, if I were to spread the aid that is available even wider. The highest priority must be given to those areas with the greatest difficulties.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that, but for the satisfactory outcome of the EEC agriculture price review, many agriculture workers in Scotland would now be unemployed? Does he agree that, if there had been a nil increase, as advocated by Opposition Members, unemployment would certainly have resulted?

My hon. Friend is right. My right hon. Friend did a magnificent job for the rural communities in Scotland in achieving the settlement on agriculture prices. I know that the NFU agrees with that.

Has the Secretary of State studied the rising trend in short-time working in Scotland? Can he give figures to show the level now reached in Scotland since there are nearly 1 million workers on short-time working in Britain?

I shall give the hon. Gentleman the detailed figures, if he wants them. Short-time work is often one way of keeping a factory going during difficult times so that it is ready to take advantage of the upturn in the economy, when the time comes.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what reply he has given to the request by the Ayrshire standing conference on unemployment for a meeting to discuss ways in which the unemployment and industrial problems of Ayrshire might be tackled; and if he will make a statement.

The Government very much share the concern of the standing conference on unemployment in Ayrshire and already accord the highest priority to measures to tackle the unemployment and industrial problems of the area. The greater part of Ayrshire already has special development area status, and special measures have been taken to assist the development of new industry in the Irvine travel-to-work area and in the Garnock Valley. My right hon. Friend has, however, informed the conference that while he sees little purpose in a meeting to discuss matters of which he is already well aware, if it has any further practical suggestions, he will, of course, be glad to consider them.

That is a disgraceful reply. How can the Secretary of State for Scotland, who represents an Ayrshire constituency, refuse to meet representatives of the Ayrshire district councils to discuss unemployment when the unemployment level there is already among the highest in Strathclyde and is 21 per cent. in my area of Cunninghame? Will the Secretary of State resign and give way to someone who is prepared to meet his own people in Ayrshire?

There is no justificaton for saying that my right hon. Friend is not meeting "his own people in Ayrshire". As an Ayrshire Member he is regularly in that part of the world. My right hon. Friend helped to plan the new enterprise trust in Ayrshire. Indeed the hon. Gentleman was invited to meetings about the trust, but I believe that he was unable to attend. They were important meetings, and as a result of them a new initiative was taken.

Will my hon. Friend confirm that his right hon. Friend and others have worked constructively with organisations such as British Aerospace to safeguard jobs in that constituency?

Yes, Sir, and—as my right hon. Friend said earlier—with considerable success.

Will the Secretary of State consider further my request to him to come to Kilmarnock and speak to employers and unemployed people——

Order. Is Kilmarnock in Ayrshire? [HON. MEMBERS: "Yes."] I am only a poor Welshman.

Will the Secretary of State, who, like me, represents a constituency in Ayrshire, consider my earnest request asking him to meet not only employers but the people who are unemployed in the area and explain the reasons for unemployment in Scotland? I do not have much faith in the Government's policies, and find myself unable to explain them.

I believe that the invitation was the one I replied to in the question that was tabled by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr. Lambie).

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will study the effects on the mobility of people in all parts of Scotland of proposed cuts in spending on public transport and increases in the price of road fuel.

I think it unlikely that such a wide-ranging study would be of any real practical benefit.

Will the Minister accept that the recent 20 per cent. increase in the tax on petrol will have a disastrous effect, particularly on people who live in rural Scotland? What representations on the matter has he brought to the attention of his right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer? How can he justify his recent intervention to prevent Lothian regional council from reducing bus fares in those parts of the area that are outside Edinburgh?

The hon. Gentleman's question implies that those who use public transport in rural areas will suffer because of the increase in fuel tax. Public transport should not be affected in any way, because bus operators do not pay duty on the fuel that they use for public services. In answer to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's question, the Lothian regional council's application could not be accepted by the bus group because its external financing limit would have been exceeded.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that there is no public transport in some of the rural areas in eastern Scotland, and that the 20 per cent. increase, together with the additional 4p levied recently and the further 4p expected next week, will have a devastating effect on those rural areas?

The Government accept that any increase in fuel costs creates problems for people living in rural areas. However, I remind my hon. Friend——

Friend?

—that even taking into account the proposed increases, the proportion of the tax to the total cost of petrol is still less today than it was in 1970.

Is the Minister aware that the study called for by the hon. Member for Berwick and East Lothian (Mr. Home Robertson) is of vital importance to my constituency, where petrol is now £1·75 a gallon in some areas? Is he further aware that as a result firms such as Schweppes and Beecham Foods have announced that they will no longer bear the extra transport costs to the Western Isles, and that the cost will be added to the 15 per cent. VAT?

If the right hon. Gentleman is concerned about transport to the Western Isles, he will acknowledge that in the period of less than two years during which this Government have been in office they have more than doubled the amount of assistance given by Government to keep down transport costs to island communities. The costs are far less than they otherwise would have been.

Would not the study be useful in providing further evidence of the devastating effect of the 20 per cent. increase in petrol tax on rural areas, and perhaps encourage those Conservative Members who spoke brave words at the time of the Budget to vote against the increase?

The right hon. Gentleman should be aware that the increased cost of petrol is only one of the factors that affect mobility in rural areas and elsewhere. Those factors were taken into account by my right hon. and learned Friend when he announced his Budget.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many forms have so far been returned ,and what proportion this represents of those distributed, for the referendum on the revised proposal for the establishment of a Development Council for the Scottish seed potato industry.

As the last date for the return of forms is 10 April, the referendum is not yet completed, but seed potato growers appear to have responded readily. By 7 April, 707 forms had been received, representing about a half of those issued.

Is not my right hon. Friend disappointed, with only two or three days remaining for the return of the forms, that there has not been a larger return because the poll affects a matter that is vital to the industry? Whatever the outcome of the referendum, will my right hon. Friend ensure that something will be done to help this industry, which is so vital to the Scottish economy?

I appreciate my hon. Friend's concern. The original proposal for a Development Council was modified and simplified as a result of discussions. A further extended debate would be to no one's advantage, and would result in delay in implementing the wishes of the majority. However, I shall study the matter, once the returns are in.

If the referendum shows that a substantial majority—more than 40 per cent.—is in favour of the establishment of development council status for a seed potato organisation in Scotland, will the Secretary of State support it, because it is in line with the aggressive marketing initiative that his right hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food has so frequently urged on the agriculture industry?

I appreciate what my hon. Friend says. However, I have to await the result of the poll, and I shall then decide whether to make a development order. If I so decide, I shall lay a draft order which requires a resolution of both Houses of Parliament.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will meet the chairman of the South of Scotland Electricity Board to discuss the future plans of the board for electricity generation and supply.

My right hon. Friend has no immediate plans to do so. My officials meet the board's senior officials regularly to discuss its plans.

How can the electricity board use a so-called increase in demand to justify building Torness while coal-fired power stations such as that at Kincardine are under-used, and at the same time claim that there is a decrease in demand and use that as an excuse for reducing the number of electrical power engineers by 17½ per cent.? What kind of crazy double talk is that from a public body?

The position with Torness is simply that its capacity will be required in the 1990s, not only to meet the level of demand then, but because it is wasteful to burn oil and coal is expensive to burn. Nuclear power must be the fuel of the future.