asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will make a statement on the state of law and order in the Province.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the current security situation.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the security situation in Northern Ireland.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the security situation.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the security situation in Northern Ireland.

The police, supported by the Army, remain steadfast in their efforts to put an end to terrorist attacks and in their pursuit of those who have committed them. In recent days they have also had to face the challenge of maintaining public order on the streets. Recent demonstrations and disorder have tested their capacity but they have proved well equal to keeping the situation under control. The methods employed by the security forces are essentially for the judgment of their own commanders. But I am in very regular contact with the Chief Constable and the GOC and both have assured me that they have all the resources they need for the job.

Apart from the support given by such as Mr. Ken Livingstone and the naive notions of the right hon. Member for Bristol, South-East (Mr. Benn), has not disorder been encouraged by some media men, mostly foreign, and has anyone been arrested for renting a mob to attack the security forces, to whom my right hon. Friend has justly paid tribute?

I, too, have heard reports of the activities of some people connected with the media—mostly foreigners. I think that the whole House would deplore the activities of anyone who encouraged or engendered trouble simply for the purpose of getting pictures for his television programme. I hope that that has not happened, but I am told that it has. I hope that it will not happen any more. The Chief Constable, with my full backing, is absolutely determined that if he finds anyone engaging in such activity that person will be arrested.

rose——

Order. I intend to call first those hon. Members whose questions are being answered together.

Was my right hon. Friend consulted by the Football Association before it took the deplorable decision to cancel the England v. Northern Ireland football match, for which 40,000 tickets or more had already been sold? If my right hon. Friend was consulted, what sort of advice did he give?

I spoke to the secretary of the FA on the morning before it made its announcement. I was able to assure him, from a conversation which I had had with the Chief Constable only 10 minutes beforehand, that the Chief Constable saw no risk to players or spectators if the match were to take place, and also saw no difficulty in providing the necessary police presence at the match, since that would in no way overstretch his forces. I told this to the secretary of the FA, and I am very sorry, as indeed is everyone in Northern Ireland, that the match is not to take place.

Is it not true to say that the main aim of the terrorists and those fomenting unrest in the Province is to frustrate the normal political process? Do the Government remain committed to giving the people of Northern Ireland more control over their own affairs?

I agree with my hon. Friend that this is undoubtedly one of the terrorists' main aims—indeed, one of their stated aims. They aim to destroy the Government of the North and following that the Government of the Republic, and to bring to an end the democratic regime under which we all live. It remains the Government's determination that that aim will be frustrated. There is a better way of working out our future than by killing other people or ourselves and that is the democratic process, which must continue. That is going on next week in the local elections that will take place in Northern Ireland. It remains Her Majesty's Government's view that that is the way forward. We shall be pursuing it as energetically as we can.

Will the Secretary of State undertake to introduce help measures and suitable equipment to prevent Christian savages from burning to death members of the security forces who are engaged in the protection of life and property?

The Chief Constable and the GOC are content with the size and equipment of the forces which they are using to maintain law and order. I know that the entire House would like to pay tribute to the security forces. These young men, on our behalf, contain disorder in the streets of Belfast, have stones and petrol bombs thrown at them and use the minimum of force to keep order. They have the equipment and strength that they require. I am in close touch with both security commanders, and, so far as I am concerned, whatever they want they can have.

Our thanks must go out to the security forces for the way in which they are handling a dreadful situation. Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that he should not be deflected from working towards a lasting solution to the Ireland problem, a political solution that takes account of all sections of opinion within the community?

Yes. I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his reference to the security forces. I agree with him. I was told the moment that I assumed this office about two years ago that a military solution could never be found to the problem. We want a political advance. That is what the Government have been seeking. Unfortunately the Provisionals and others have abandoned any idea of political solutions and they are seeking to impose their will by force—force against the community and, occasionally, force against their own members. They will not succeed.

As violence is the enemy of democracy, does the Secretary of State appreciate that the best news recently heard by the law-abiding Ulster majority was the statement that the evil bunch of murderers and thugs belonging to the Provisional IRA in the H block had decided on a hunger strike to death when presumably in the after-life they will experience the hell that they have created for so many innocent people in Northern Ireland?

I shall not take up the hon. Gentleman's theological references. We deplore any death, whether it is inflicted by a terrorist on innocent people or inflicted on himself. I hope very much that those who are on hunger strike or who are contemplating going on it will realise that the exercise is totally fruitless. They will achieve nothing save their own destruction.

I revert to the supplementary question asked by the hon. Member for Epping Forest (Mr. Biggs-Davison). Will the Secretary of State carry out the most thorough investigations into a tragic incident that took place a few hours after the death of Mr. Sands at the top of the New Lodge Road in the Antrim Road not very far from my home, in which an innocent milk delivery man and his young son were brutally and savagely attacked, which subsequently led to the death of both the young boy and his father, the latter having died yesterday afternoon? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that within seconds of those stones being thrown a television camera crew was on the scene? There are many who are of the belief that that crowd was agitated into throwing stones for the benefit of foreign television cameras. The end result was that two innocent people lost their lives. Will he give an undertaking that the Chief Constable of Northern Ireland will carry out the most far-reaching inquiry into that occurrence to ascertain the identity of the camera crew?

Yes, Sir, I readily give that undertaking. Nobody is keener to do what the hon. Gentleman suggests than the Chief Constable and myself. In fact, it is being done. That occurrence and others have been reported to us where it is thought that despicable activity of the sort to which the hon. Gentleman has referred has taken place. In default of evidence there cannot be prosecution. Let us see how the Chief Constable gets on. Mr. Guiney and his young son were delivering milk to the people of West Belfast and tragically both are now dead. They were attacked by a gang of rioters with stones and their milk lorry crashed. That event killed them both. Many hon. Members may have seen pictures of the funeral of the young Guiney two days ago. They will have seen the distress, unhappiness and misery that has been caused to him, his family and his friends.

rose——

Order. This matter arises again later.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will call for a report from the Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary on their progress in investigating the incident in Londonderry during which two teenagers were knocked down by Army Land-Rovers and received injuries from which they have since died; and if he will make a statement.

Investigation of this incident by the Royal Ulster Constabulary is well in hand. When it is completed the RUC will forward the papers to the Director of Public Prosecutions for his consideration. It would be inappropriate meanwhile for me to call for a report.

I echo the Secretary of State's words in support of the security forces in Northern Ireland. I imply no criticism whatsoever. However, does the Minister accept that there is some feeling of distress about this incident? The hope is to be expressed that if anybody is found to be at fault the fact will be made public. When is the inquest likely to be held?

I cannot give precise information about the inquest. The report from the RUC will be handed in as soon as it is complete. Adequate time must be allowed for that. The death of two youngsters in these circumstances is appalling. However, the circumstances were those of a riotous assembly, and a vehicle came over the brow of a hill rapidly. A great deal must be considered. I cannot say any more until the investigation is completed.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, although we may accept in normal circumstances that members of the security forces driving vehicles should be subject to the same laws as others, surely any event that takes place in the middle of a riotous occurrence in which the police and the Army have been petrol-bombed by a riotous crowd for a considerable period, in an area which used to be Protestant until the Protestants were driven out by intimidation, must be the subject of careful investigation before any charges are brought? Is he aware that in the same area on Tuesday of this week the police had two acid bombs, 13 nail bombs, 18 blast bombs and 290 petrol bombs thrown at them by a similar-sized riotous mob?

Naturally the investigations will be extremely thorough. It is for the Director of Public Prosecutions to decide whether there should be any prosecution in the circumstances.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he has made any special arrangements to secure the fair conduct of the local government elections in Northern Ireland.

I am assured by the chief electoral officer, who is responsible for the conduct of the election, that he is taking all the necessary steps, in consultation with the police, to ensure its fair conduct, in accordance with the law, and that no additional measures are required at present.

In the light of the figures that the right hon. Gentleman has quoted, is he certain that a fair election is possible in the West Bank area of Londonderry when the schools that are to be used are in the heart of a Republican area? Would not it be far better to put in commissioners to run that electoral district until an election can be held with the IRA firmly under control?

I am well aware of the difficulties. The chief electoral officer is a man with considerable experience, upon whose judgment I rely. If he needs extra help or protection, he will make that request. I am in touch with him and we shall do everything possible between us to ensure that the elections are fair.

When my right hon. Friend is considering elections, will he consider perhaps a referendum, so that the people of Northern Ireland could pass judgment on their qualified membership of the United Kingdom whereby they are purported to be members only so long as the majority should wish it? They could become full members of the United Kingdom the same as anybody else, which would reduce the ambivalence that exists at the moment if a suitable majority existed. That ambivalence is a great cause of the present terrorism.

My hon. Friend is labouring under some misapprehension. Those who live in Northern Ireland are as much members of the United Kingdom as my hon. Friend and I. They are full members of the United Kingdom. My hon. Friend will be aware that the law provides that a border poll may be held at intervals of not less than 10 years, asking whether the people wish the present state of affairs to continue. The last poll was held in 1973. It is a matter for consideration whether a further poll, asking that simple question, should be held in 1983, or subsequently.

How successful was the census operation in certain areas of Northern Ireland? The right hon. Gentleman's answer will show whether fair elections can be held next week in certain areas of Northern Ireland.

As the hon. Gentleman knows, there was some difficulty in collecting the census and one collector was murdered. We all regret that and I have already spoken about it in this House. Nevertheless, the census forms are in and are almost 100 per cent. complete. People had the opportunity to return their census forms by post and in other ways. Those whose census forms were lost were invited to complete others. Although I cannot claim a 100 per cent. success, it was nearly that.

If and when a referendum about the border takes place, will the Secretary of State ensure that, unlike what happened last time, it includes not only those in Northern Ireland, but also those on the mainland? Those in Britain could then judge whether the border should be removed. As they do in their correspondence to many Labour Members, people could show that it was time that the troops were taken out of Northern Ireland.

The Act provides that the referendum shall be held in Northern Ireland. I do not want to discuss the "troops out" movement now, but I have not heard anyone suggest that troops should be removed from any other part of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom and its people are entitled to the same level of protection as those living in the hon. Gentleman's constituency, or anywhere else.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what royalty payments have been received to date under his Department's agreement with the De Lorean Corporation.

The royalties are due to be paid to the Northern Ireland Development Agency quarterly in arrears. The first consignment of 313 cars was shipped on 19 April, so no royalty payments are yet due.

Does not my hon. Friend recall that, the last time he addressed the House on this matter, he assured us that the royalty payments would be forthcoming as soon as the cars were shipped? Will he bear it in mind that Mr. De Lorean has quite a reputation for running up bills? Will he chase the money up? Furthermore, have any of the cars been sold? What is this great vehicle's current daily production run?

The cars arrived in California either today or yesterday. They will be prepared for sale and I understand that they will go on sale at the end of May or at the beginning of June. The best way of interpreting the production rate is by bearing in mind that the next shipment of cars is due at the end of next week. I ask my hon. Friend to give the company the benefit of the doubt.

What is the daily production rate?

At the end of the day my hon. Friend may be driving a De Lorean sports car up Downing Street instead of a woman's brown bicycle.

No way.

Given the massive public investment in De Lorean and the need to ensure regularity of payments and complete accountability, should not the Government increase the number of directors on its board? After all, in effect, the taxpayer provides the majority of De Lorean's finance. Should that not be reflected in a majority of directors and voting shares?

The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the Government directors on the board. We are entirely satisfied with the monitoring of the company.

Given the highly unsatisfactory rate of unemployment in Northern Ireland and in the rest of the United Kingdom, may we be told how many people work for De Lorean? Can any estimate be given of the number of jobs that have been saved in Northern Ireland as a result of De Lorean? In addition, can the hon. Gentleman give any estimate of the number of other jobs saved and created not only in Northern Ireland but in the rest of the United Kingdom?

About 1,400 people are employed at De Lorean. There is some spin-off as a result of the supply of parts and other materials to the company.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of my hon. Friend's reply, I give notice that I shall raise the matter again at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will institute an inquiry into the prevalence and incidence of anorexia nervosa in Northern Ireland and preventive measures which ought to be taken in consequence.

No, Sir. The information available on numbers admitted to hospital suffering from this disorder do not suggest that the problem calls for a special inquiry.

In view of the importance—especially at the present time—of firmness, consistency and justice in Northern Ireland's prison administration, do the Government realise the anxiety that has arisen, because no releases have been made in Great Britain as a result of this complaint, that one such release happened to coincide with the critical stage of a recent hunger strike, and that those who have been released have made remarkable recoveries?

I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman appreciates that people have been released only on clear, uneqivocal and independent medical evidence to the effect that they would have suffered imminent death if their condition had continued to deteriorate in prison.

Does the Minister accept that the vast majority of human beings accepts the answer that he has given? Will not he accept that the question raised by the right hon. Member for Down, South (Mr. Powell) bears a macabre affinity to the sort of things that the right hon. Gentleman believes about those black people who come into Britain? Will not the hon. Gentleman accept that such sentiments, if continued, will lead to a great deal of killing?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his support. However, the right hon. Member for Down, South (Mr. Powell) voices the fears that are held by some on this side of the water and on the other. It is in our interests to point out that those fears are completely unfounded and baseless.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the level of unemployment in Northern Ireland.

The total number of people registered as unemployed in Northern Ireland on 9 April 1981 was 98,943; 17·2 per cent. of the working population.

Will the Minister accept that the viciously high level of unemployment has contributed to the unrest and to the difficulties experienced in Northern Ireland? When will the Government alter their policies and when will they ensure that unemployment is significantly reduced in Northern Ireland and in the rest of the United Kingdom? Does the hon. Gentleman believe that jobs in Northern Ireland can be secured only at the cost per job level of the De Lorean project?

Both in Northern Ireland and in the rest of the United Kingdom lasting improvements in employment can be ensured by reducing inflation and by helping industry to lower its costs.

No.

Yes. In that way industry can be competitive. The last thing that one should do is to take the advice of the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends and to spend public money. That will refuel inflation and make industry even more uncompetitive.

Does the Minister realise that his words will bring no comfort to the unemployed of Northern Ireland? For many people, being out of a job causes great heartbreak. Some of them have been in work all their lives. Does the hon. Gentleman realise that, in addition to the hardship of being jobless, such people must face increased council rents and increased food prices? Should not the Government do something to combat unemployment and the increase in the cost of living?

The hon. Member speaks with feeling on behalf of his constituents. They will take heart from the fact that, for example, this week I have opened two new premises in Northern Ireland. That is important because they are associated with advanced technology, where the future lies. I was in America two weeks ago. A considerable interest in further investment in the Province was expressed, largely from those involved in high technology. That is where the hope for the future must lie.

Does the Minister agree that the figure of 17·2 per cent., appalling though it is, does not tell the whole story? There are places throughout Northern Ireland where the male unemployment figures are 25 per cent., 30 per cent., 35 per cent., 40 per cent. and up to 50 per cent. That is so in many areas, such as West Belfast, Strabane, Newry and Dungannon. There is now a great deal of frustration among all those people who have no employment, through no fault of their own. Will he further agree that he has always had the maximum co-operation from the responsible trade union movement in Northern Ireland, which has done nothing to bring about the Government's callous attitude towards the unemployed? Will he say today to the thousands of people who have almost lost hope that the Government will try to do what they can to increase the employment figures at the earliest possible opportunity?

It is correct that there are areas of unemployment in Northern Ireland which have percentages which are as high as those which the hon. Gentleman mentioned. It is for that reason that the Government not only offer Northern Ireland the most generous package of incentives for industrial development in the United Kingdom, but make available special rates of capital grant and special incentives to those areas of the highest unemployment. That is one way in which we can help positively.

Is the Minister aware that, although the official unemployment figure for Northern Ireland is still just below 100,000, it has been said that the real number is probably 30 per cent. higher? We must remember those people who have not bothered to register because of the sheer futility of doing so. Does he not agree that the enormity of the unemployment problem in the Province is evidence of the total failure to improve or maintain normal economic life there?

The House must realise that Northern Ireland was the only region in the whole of the United Kingdom where unemployment fell last month. That is one reason why I was able to refer to the improvement in the underlying trend. Surely that is an advantage. I do not accept for one moment that 30 per cent. of those affected do not register. Over 32,000 people are benefiting from the Government's training and employment schemes, which are not productive jobs, but mainly involve training or work experience. They are of great advantage to those who undertake them and will make those people more able to do a job as they move on.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what recent consultations he has had about prison conditions in Northern Ireland.

Prison conditions are kept under regular review. As part of this process there are consultations from time to time with a wide variety of interested agencies both inside and outside Government.

Is the Minister aware that he has the full support of the European Commission of Human Rights in resisting political status? However, it is in favour of a more flexible approach to the prison system in Northern Ireland. Is the Minister aware that there are still many misunderstandings about prisoners' rights in Northern Ireland? It would be helpful if the Minister could clarify that matter. Will he consider further prison reforms as a way of counteracting adverse propaganda and as a way of encouraging prisoners to conform to the rules?

Prison reform is a continuing process in every part of the prison system in the United Kingdom. The privileges, facilities and rules applicable to the prisoners' lives have been published. They were published in the recent circulars which we issued for public interest. They were placed in the Library of the House. The hon. Gentleman can see in them exactly what the privileges and rules are.

Has my hon. Friend given any thought to rescinding those privileges which were first granted in 1972 to certain prisoners, from which the concept of special category status has grown?

The privileges that are accorded to any prisoner are naturally susceptible to withdrawal if the prisoner is in breach of prison rules or if an adjudication awards a penalty against him. Therefore, it is always possible for privileges to be withdrawn.

Do the Government recognise the importance of ensuring that any measures introduced in the prisons in Northern Ireland on humanitarian grounds are seen to be applied as soon as possible in the rest of the United Kingdom?

I am not convinced by the right hon. Gentleman's observation. In his recommendations about the administration of the prison system the late Lord Mountbatten suggested that it was right that prisons containing a large number of long-term prisoners should have a regime and administration which was distinguishable from prisons with a population which was neither so long-serving nor imprisoned for such serious offences. The Northern Ireland prison system has an exceptionally large number of young, long-sentence prisoners. A locally differentiated prison regime is reasonable and applicable in that environment.

Notwithstanding the efforts by Her Majesty's Government, does the Minister accept that unfortunately, and much as we may resent it, part of the world seems to think that we are running an oppressive regime in the Maze? There is a desperate need to make it clear—as I have seen for myself—that the facts are totally different. Every opportunity should be made to demonstrate to the Americans, the French, the Greeks and the rest that the Maze regime is a fair system of prison administration, probably better than anywhere else in the world.

The hon. Gentleman is a little pessimistic about the extent to which the prison system in Northern Ireland, and conditions in the Maze in particular, are regarded as sinister and unacceptable. We have a liberal regime—if I dare use that word—of admission for the media. Press correspondents and television crews—both sorts of public relations media—have regularly visited the Maze, apart from visits by the hon. Gentleman, other hon. Members and other people. The conditions of life in the prison for those who wish to hear and know the truth are readily accessible and well known.

Is the Minister aware that in the present circumstances it is important on every occasion to impress upon everyone what the conditions are and what is offered to the prisoners? I suggest to the Government that they take every opportunity to spell that out so that the rest of the world understands.

No one in the House knows more about the conditions of the prison system in Northern Ireland than the right hon. Gentleman, who played a constructive role in establishing it. He will know of the recent publication of two simple popular guides to conditions in the prison. They have had a substantial circulation and show, pictorially as well as descriptively, how up-to-date and modern the prison facilities are there. It is among the most modern and humane prison structures anywhere in the Western world.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will take steps to end the present segregated system of education in Northern Ireland as soon as possible.

The present educational system in Northern Ireland, like that elsewhere in the United Kingdom, reflects the wishes of local communities and of parents and there can be no question of the Government attempting to force integrated education on anyone who does not want it. The Government will, however, support integration wherever practical proposals are put forward and there is a local wish for it, and I must stress that there is no legal bar to children of different religions being educated together.

Is the Minister aware that there is no basis for what he has said, as no official assessment has been made of the opinions of Ulster parents? Will the Government take action to tackle the division in the community, which will persist as long as the monstrous religious apartheid in schools is sustained by the Government with taxpayers' money?

I do not accept that there is educational apartheid in Northern Ireland supported by the Government. Parents can choose where they wish to have their children educated, and in Northern Ireland the vast majority wish to have them educated in a school with a particular religious flavour.

How can we seek to deny to our fellow citizens in Northern Ireland the right to have their children educated, if they so wish, within their own confession, a right that we vindicate in the remainder of the United Kingdom?

I entirely agree.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the only part of the Northern Ireland education system in which both communities can mix is in higher education? Is he further aware that if an attempt were made to take out the University of Coleraine or to damage public sector higher education it would be a serious setback for the opportunities of the two communities to come together?

I am aware of that and of the public concern about the New University in Coleraine. However, it is not the role of Government to force integration upon parents if they do not wish to have their children educated in integrated schools.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what representations he has received from the Government of the Republic of Ireland about the future constitutional arrangements for Northern Ireland.

I have nothing to add to the reply that my right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Scunthorpe (Mr. Brown) on 1 April.

Will the Minister accept that recent events in Northern Ireland have created a new situation and that many people hope that the love-in on Northern Ireland between the two Front Benches will gradually be broken? Is he aware of the massive initiative in the Labour Party for it to be stated that we profoundly believe that a united Ireland is the only ultimate solution? Will he accept that the British people are sick to death because neither party has a proper policy on Northern Ireland? They want to see a new initiative from the Labour Party to solve the terrible and intractable problems.

That is all fascinating stuff but does not have much to do with the hon. Gentleman's main question. I am interested in his views and no doubt we shall be hearing more of them. We are discussing a variety of matters with the Government of the Republic, but, as has been made clear on many occasions, not the future governmental arrangements of Northern Ireland.

As Mr. Haughey has recently proved to be anything but a good neighbour, will the Secretary of State dissolve the joint study groups and expose the fallacy of the special relationship?

No, Sir.

While we recognise that Northern Ireland's future constitutional arrangements are not being discussed with the Government of the Republic of Ireland, may I ask what, specifically, is being discussed.

The Prime Minister has answered questions on the matter on a number of occasions. She has spelt out the range of subjects under discussion between officials, with a view to suggesting to the two Governments what further can be done. That is as far as I am able to go.

As the Minister is interested in the Labour Party and its position on a united Ireland, will he accept that many of us believe not only in a united Ireland but in a united Socialist Ireland—an Ireland that will challenge the green Tories in the South and the orange Tories in the North? Will he further accept that this is not a new concept, but was argued by Jim Larkin and James Connolly many years ago? It is still valid today. Is he aware that Irish workers will still back the concept, given the lead that I hope the Labour Party will give, as my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Mr. Flannery) said?

Again, that is fascinating stuff, but the hon. Gentleman's hopes about the future of the Labour Party have nothing to do with me.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 14 May.

This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House I shall be having further meetings later today.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the Chancellor's recent statements have caused grave anxiety among pensioners about the future of their pensions? Will she allay the fears by saying that the State pension will continue to keep pace with inflation?

The Government are bound under our election pledge to keep the retirement pension to its full purchasing power in connection with inflation. The pledge has been more than honoured and will continue to be honoured.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in his first statement the new Labour leader of Humberside said that he intended to re-impose the closed shop, which was abolished by the Conservative administration? What aid will my right hon. Friend give to Humberside's poor employees who may be treated like Joanna Harris?

The imposition of a closed shop by an authority runs totally contrary to our belief in individual freedom. If the unions were doing their job, they would be able to get people to join them voluntarily and not have to impose compulsion. The Green Paper on trade union reform has a section on the matter. I hope that we shall have strong representation about future legislation on the closed shop.

We shall be glad to return to the other topics later, but as this is the first occasion that the House has met since the terrible news from Rome, does the right hon. Lady agree that the House will wish to voice the opinion of the country and to express our horror at the event and our desire that the Pope should make the speediest possible recovery? The politics of persuasion and argument are the pre-eminent qualities of the House, and we should express our horror at the event. We deplore not only the brutality but the sheer wanton futility of such action, which is almost as horrifying.

I gladly join the right hon. Gentleman in his comments. I sent a message yesterday. Most of us heard the news with disbelief that such an attempt could be made. All of us in the House, by definition, believe in the politics of persuasion and not in the politics of the gun.

Is my right hon. friend aware that the entire House wishes to be associated with her remarks and the sympathy and prayers that she sent to the Pope last night? Is my right hon. Friend further aware that her stand against terrorism, supported by the Leader of the Opposition, commands the respect of the entire nation?

It seems to me that people turn to the gun when they have failed to persuade, and they use the gun to try to threaten the civilian population into submission. They must never, never succeed. Those who use terrorism against great public figures must know that there will be still greater public figures coming on who will never, never be afeard by such action.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 14 May.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply which I gave some moments ago.

Now that the Prime Minister has had time to consider the question put to her on Tuesday by my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham, West (Mr. Price), will she say why the Government in one breath say that they cannot afford to pay the civil servants more than 7 per cent. this year and in the next breath say that they are to award 11 per cent. to the Armed Forces? Why the indefensible contradiction? During the past two or three years the Armed Forces have had more increases than civil servants or almost anybody else.

The decision on the Armed Forces review body will be given shortly. I must point out to the hon. Gentleman that in this week of all weeks most of us know that the Armed Forces undertake far more risks on our behalf than any other section of the community.

Has my right hon. Friend had a chance today to see the early-day motion in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for Nelson and Colne (Mr. Lee) listing the TUC's investment portfolio? Will she take great encouragement from the fact that the TUC has seen fit to invest in British Government stock and British companies?

I am glad that the TUC has such faith in the Government's sound financial policies, and I hope that it will continue in its shrewd investments.

In view of the Government's failure to negotiate a settlement of the Civil Service dispute, what advice has she for firms that are waiting for tax repayments and are in financial difficulties as a result?

I offer the advice that I gave in response to a similar question on a previous occasion. The Inland Revenue has made arrangements not to press for the payment of PAYE where firms are in difficulties because their value added tax repayments have not been made. Further, banks can be given an undertaking where there are repayments of value added tax outstanding.

Will the Prime Minister find time today to explain the conversation that she has had with the Secretary of State for Employment on the so-called national employment service for young people? There seems to be a head of steam behind this coming from the more Right-wing parts of the Conservative Party. Does the right hon. Lady acknowledge that there will be extreme opposition in all parts of the country to young people being deployed on some form of square bashing when what they need is proper training and jobs?

There may be opposition to a compulsory service, but the extension of such a service voluntarily would have a very wide welcome across the country. There are already youth opportunities schemes and community enterprise schemes, and those are very welcome. There will be a few places in the Armed Forces. I suspect that those, too, will be over-subscribed. My right hon. Friend and I are anxious to secure more training opportunities and, in particular, to use the many places available in further and higher education for that purpose.

asked the Prime Minister whether she will list her offical engagements for Thursday 14 May.

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave some moments ago.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is tragic that, just when it is making its way back to recovery, the British motor industry should once again be hit by a wave of strikes leading to lost jobs, more lay-offs and greater competition from abroad? Will she take time today to explain this danger to the management and work force and urge them to settle their differences and get back to work?

Gladly, yes. Strikes give this country a very bad reputation. They raise the cost of vehicles and put back delivery dates. In my tours overseas, when trying to push the cause of more orders for Britain, I have frequently been told two things—"Yes, but your prices are still too high and your delivery dates too bad." Until unit labour costs come down—they are particularly bad in the car industry, as we know—and until delivery dates are on time, we shall not get the car jobs that we need.

Will the Prime Minister give some thought today to the fact that the Provisional IRA is making significant propaganda gains, both nationally and internationally, out of the position in the Maze prison? Will she bear in mind that the Irish Government solved a not dissimilar problem without granting political status—to which I think the vast majority of us would be opposed—and, in so doing, scored a significant propaganda victory against the Provisional IRA?

It is generally acknowledged that the Government are running, in the Maze prison, one of the most liberal and humane prison regimes anywhere. The European Commission of Human Rights went in in 1978 and reported in 1980. It made eight or nine proposals for improvements. Those proposals were fully met by the Government. After that we went even further, agreeing to an issue of civilian clothing by the prison authorities for wear in the Maze. All that was done before the first hunger strike began. What hunger strikers are asking for—the one who died last was in fact a murderer; let us not mince our words—is political status by easy stages. They cannot have it. They are murderers and people who use force and violence to obtain their ends. They have made perfectly clear what they want. They cannot and will not have it.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that of the £2,000 million borrowed from the International Monetary Fund between 1975 and 1977 by the Labour Government, when they were in extremis, only £240 million now remains for repayment? If so, does it not speak volumes for the skill of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and his team and for the excellent economic management of the country by the Government?

I believe that my hon. Friend's figures are broadly right. They show that Labour Governments run the finances of the country in such a way that they have to borrow large amounts overseas and leave Tory Governments to repay them.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 14 May.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply which I gave some moments ago.

Will the Prime Minister find time today to read the debate last Friday on a Bill of Rights? Will she give the House an undertaking that the all-party talks on this important matter, which she promised some months ago, will now take place?

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will pursue that matter with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. A Bill of Rights has been mooted for a very long time because people believe that somehow it will enable us to have entrenched provisions. The fact is that in the system that we run, in which there is parliamentary supremacy, there is no possibility of entrenched provisions. That is the difficulty with a Bill of Rights.

Does my right hon. Friend think that there is any way in which there can be international collaboration to overcome the menace of terrorism worldwide?

There is already a good deal of international collaboration between police forces. I think that all Governments in the Western world are aware of the need to co-operate to overcome this terrible menace that is afflicting our countries.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that, unlike the hon. Member for Bridlington (Mr. Townend), I was with the leader of Humberside council when he made his first statement on the policy to be adopted there now that Labour has regained control? Is she aware that the first thing that he said was that the council had examined the books and had found that, in order to reduce rates, the Tories had left Humberside virtually bankrupt? That was his first statement. He also said that the council wanted to restore the cuts in social services to the old and to the young, which is the policy of the Labour Party.

It seems that the hon. Gentleman is embarking on a policy of increased expenditure regardless of the cost. In particular, if the rates on Humberside are to go up greatly, I remind the hon. Gentleman that vastly increased rates on industry and commerce cost jobs and create unemployment.

In the light of earlier questions, will my right hon. Friend review the proposal that Civil Service pay next year should be negotiated without predetermined cash limits? Are there not grave dangers in such a procedure, both in terms of repercussions elsewhere in the public sector and in view of the need to control public expenditure not just this year but next year as well?

The Lord President has said that next year we would be prepared to negotiate without predetermined cash limits. That does not alter the fact that in the end we would have to reconcile any amount given with the public's ability to pay, and with the Chancellor of the Exchequer's requirements as far as public expenditure is concerned. But there is room for a little latitude, as pay is only one factor in the departmental budgets.