asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is yet in a position to announce the outcome of his correspondence with the European Commission concerning the date of implementation of the Labelling of Food Regulations 1980; and if he will make a statement.

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave him yesterday on this subject.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the decision that he announced yesterday will be widely welcomed by both food manufacturers and consumers? What progress has been made by other European countries towards implementing the directive, and what will be the position on 1 January in respect of goods from overseas that do not comply with it?

I delayed the decision to put pressure on the Commission to take action against countries which, seemingly, were not going to comply. I now have confirmation that the Commission will take legal action against countries which will not comply. The goods of any country that does not comply with the directive, but endeavours to export to this country, will not be allowed in.

Will my right hon. Friend clarify his intentions so that food processors and retailers are left in absolutely no doubt about their obligations?

My hon. Friend will not have seen the full text of the written reply that I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Shersby) yesterday. It fully satisfies the food processors and manufacturers. They are now clear as to the manner in which the regulations will be applied.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is now in a position to make a statement on his policy towards making available more land for agricultural tenancies.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when he expects to complete his consideration of the action required to encourage new lettings of farms; and if he will make a statement.

I have nothing to add to the replies that I gave to the hon. Member for Norfolk, North-West (Mr. Brocklebank-Fowler) on 10 June.

It is many months since the Minister first gave that stalling answer. Does he intend to introduce legislation, or has he simply rejected the arguments put forward by both the Country Landowners Association and the National Farmers Union that measures are urgently needed to increase the supply of tenant land?

It is not months since I gave that "stalling" answer. It is slightly less than one month. I have since then made it clear that we approve the basic principles of the NFU-CLA agreement. We shall consider when to introduce legislation.

In addition to legislation, will the Minister consider discussing with his right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer the tax concessions that might encourage landlords to let more land instead of taking it back when old tenants leave?

Yes, Sir.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that, notwithstanding the answer that he gave, the proposals of the Labour Party to nationalise agricultural tenancies will be disastrous for the farming industry and expensive for the taxpayer and consumer?

Yes, completely disastrous.

Why does the Minister not forget his deep prejudices about selective public ownership of land and introduce a land bank, using land that could be made available, by capital transfer tax settlements with the Treasury in lieu of payments in cash?

Because my deep prejudices are based on the appalling record of nationalisation.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the provisions in last year's Finance Act and in this year's Finance Bill regarding Scottish agricultural leases and the clawback provisions of CTT illustrate the Government's commitment to the expansion of tenant farming?

Yes, Sir.

Does the Minister agree that the NFU was absolutely right to support the Labour Government's legislation in 1976? The NFU argued that, far from any change in succession leading to more farms to let, it would lead to landlords taking over vacant farms for direct farming, and that therefore an element of public ownership was almost the only way in which tenancies could be made available? Were there not two heads to the agreement—one on rates and the other on succession?

No, Sir. There is no evidence that the land nationalisation advocated by the hon. Gentleman would be other than disastrous. I am delighted that the Labour Party manifesto contained such proposals.

Is not now the opportune time for the Minister to urge his colleagues to give extra financial aid to local authorities to buy more land in Britain to let to young tenant farmers?

I do not believe that that is a desirable role for local authorities or a correct use of public resources.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps he will take to ensure that good quality agricultural land is not lost to the industry.

My Department will continue to ensure that Government policy for the protection of agricultural land is applied in accordance with Department of the Environment circular 75/76.

As nearly 1,000 acres of good agricultural land are lost each week to roads, runways, reservoirs, houses and factories, is it not of prime importance that the planner's pen ploughs a furrow through the poorest quality land before it alights on the best quality land?

I wholly agree. Paragraph 3 of the DOE circular seeks to ensure that higher quality land is not used where lower quality land is available and that no more is taken than is needed for the development.

Is the Minister aware of the strong criticism of the supine evidence that the Ministry advanced about the loss of good agricultural land through the massive expansion of Stansted? Will she consider the issue and reassure the House that the Ministry will take a stronger line in future?

I do not accept the criticism of the Ministry's stand on Stansted. Ministry representatives try to ensure that there is no loss of high quality land. They battle for agricultural land in the way that the hon. Gentleman suggests they should.

Has my hon. Friend seen the discussion paper on forestry and land use issued by the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, of which I am a member? Does she feel that it has a contribution to make?

Such a distinguished body always has a contribution to make.

In the close consultation between the Ministry and the Department of the Environment on the development of good agricultural land, will my hon. Friend make the sensible representation to the Secretary of State for the Environment that all good agricultural land that is subject to planning application should be called in under section 35 of the 1971 Act as a matter of course?

My Ministry is consulted at all stages in the preparation of structural and local plans and on all planning applications affecting more than 4 hectares of agricultural land that do not conform to an agreed development plan.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if, preparatory to any final decision being made by the United Kingdom on the terms of membership of the European Economic Community of Spain, so far as they concern agriculture, he will undertake a study and issue a report on the effect of Spanish membership of the European Economic Community on each sector of the agriculture and horticulture industries in the United Kingdom.

A considerable body of information and research now exists on Spanish agriculture, its effect on the United Kingdom market and the likely consequences of Spanish accession to the European Community. I have considered carefully the need for a further study, but have concluded that this would not be justified at present. My Department continues to monitor developments and changes in Spanish agriculture and horticulture.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that about 2 million acres of land in Spain are suitable for irrigation and that once Spain joins the EEC and the land is irrigated our markets for many domestic products will cease to exist? Will he consider again the real threat in Spain's application?

Yes, Sir. In any judgment we would consider the impact of such irrigation policies. However, the Spanish market also offers a considerable outlet for our agricultural products which Spain does not produce.

Might there not be further indirect costs to the British taxpayer of Spanish accession to the EEC, as it could lead to calls for a new regime in other areas—for example, olive oil, which is the mainstay of rural Italy?

Yes, Sir. That is why discussions are taking place on olive oil production in the existing Community. The British Government have put forward proposals which take those dangers into consideration.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what percentage of liquid milk production is consumed under school milk subsidised consumption.

Subsidised school milk represents about 1 per cent. of liquid milk sales and about ½ per cent. of total milk production.

Does not the scheme put the best of all possible foods into children's stomachs and a good deal of cash into farmers' pockets at a minimum cost to the British taxpayer? Is it not a pity that so few local authorities have taken advantage of the scheme? Will my hon. Friend use her best offices to persuade them to do so?

On the contrary, of 126 local authorities and education boards involved, only six have refused to take up the subsidy. Four have yet to respond.

Why does the Minister not introduce a national scheme?

It is a good Community scheme, from which in 1981 we derived £18 million. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would not grumble about that.

Does the hon. Lady agree that the quality of the scheme does not prevent it being a national scheme? Will she introduce a national scheme and not allow some reprobate local authorities to get out of it?

Each local education authority should decide its own spending priorities, including the importance that it attaches to school milk.

Will my hon. Friend encourage the consumption of all milk products, bearing in mind the immense danger to the industry from the new synthetic cheese that is selling at 50 per cent. below the cost of normal cheese?

We have tried to make it as easy as possible for authorities to take full advantage of the subsidies that are available. Last year we negotiated an aggregate scheme that included semi-skimmed flavoured milk and cheese and yoghurt with a 12½ per cent. local authority contribution.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a further statement on his attempts to reform the common agricultural policy.

I continue to seek improvements in the operation of the common agricultural policy designed to tackle the problem of surpluses, restrain the growth of expenditure and ensure fair competition within the Community.

After three years of Conservative Administration and attempts to reform the CAP, does my right hon. Friend now agree that, because of the power balances in the EEC, it is not possible to get a fundamental reform of the CAP?

No, Sir, I do not agree. During those three years the growth in expenditure has been 26 per cent. compared with 260 per cent. under the Labour Government, and the proportion of CAP benefits going to Britain has doubled.

Does the Minister accept that whatever hopes he may entertain are likely to be confounded and that whatever admirable efforts he may make are likely to meet disappointment, not least as a consequence of the recent Community majority decision? Can he yet tell the House how much the subsidy and structure of agriculture will dominate the EEC budget in the ensuing 12 months?

I cannot give the exact forecast for the next 12 months. During the past three years the proportion of the budget devoted to the CAP has declined considerably.

Would it not be regrettable if reform of the CAP resulted in Europe becoming a food deficiency area?

Yes, Sir.

That would hardly be reform of the common agricultural policy. Will the Minister listen to the wise words of his hon. Friend the Member for Basildon (Mr. Proctor)? Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that this year's settlement marked the final destruction of any attempt or hope to reform the common agricultural policy in any sensible way? Does he further agree that the near surrender point was overcome by events when majority voting took place? Has not the time come for us to operate a policy suitable for British farming and the British consumer without the nonsense of high prices, surpluses, export levies and the other bureaucratic paraphernalia of the Common Market?

I am glad that the views of the farming industry are in complete conflict with those of the hon. Gentleman. The farming industry is increasingly recognising, particularly with the reversal of the Labour Government's green pound policy, the considerably enhanced opportunities for exports and growth in the British economy.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what progress has been made by Food from Britain since his recent announcement of its creation.

As I informed the House on 8 June, I shall seek to introduce the necessary legislation to transform the Central Council for Agricultural and Horticultural Co-operation into the new marketing organisation, Food from Britain, as soon as possible. Meanwhile, those invited to serve on Food from Britain have begun preparing its marketing strategy and formulating plans for joint marketing initiatives to promote British food and fresh produce at home and abroad.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that food processing companies will gain the full benefit of this campaign for their exports?

Yes, Sir. Indeed, food manufacturers and processors have warmly welcomed this initiative. The food industry has guaranteed its full co-operation and agreed that its export efforts should be incorporated in it.

I welcome the concept of Food from Britain, but will the Minister also consider food from the regions? Is the rig at hon. Gentleman aware that there is considerable regional excellence? With offices in the regions, this should not be beyond his Department's capabilities.

No, Sir. I know that the hon. Gentleman has a keen interest in this topic. I agree that there is much promotion to be done on food from our regions.

Will my right hon. Friend do his best to ensure that the livestock marketing, meat processing and packaging industries, which are an integral part of the whole concept, are given ail possible support in these troubled times?

We shall be giving this topic similar attention. As my hon. Friend knows, one of the members of the new council will be the chariman of the Meat and Livestock Commission.

Walker asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what proportion of the 1981 United Kingdom potato crop was exported (a) as ware and (b) as seed.

Overseas trade statistics are not yet available for this period, but figures from the Potato Marketing Board and the Department of Agriculture for Northern Ireland suggest 1 per cent. and 2 per cent., respectively.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Does she recognise that the potato trade is a vital part of the Tayside economy? How are Government plans progressing towards improving the marketing and processing of potatoes?

I am sure that my hon. Friend will have observed the beginning of the Great Brits programme for high quality potatoes, because I understand that it started in Scotland. Everyone in the industry agrees about the importance of improving the quality of potatoes. We welcome the name "Great Brits" which the Potato Marketing Board and the new bodies in Scotland and Northern Ireland have chosen for seed potatoes.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is satisfied with the present state of the dairy industry; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. I believe that both sides of the industry can look to the future with confidence.

Will the Minister comment on the EEC proposal to give a £4 million rebate to small dairy farmers in this country? Who will administer the scheme?

We are having discussions, but the scheme will be administered by the Milk Marketing Board.

Bearing in mind the damage that can be done to the dairy industry by tuberculosis and brucellosis, will my right hon. Friend either confirm or deny that he has authorised the cessation of the gassing of badgers? If his reply is in the affirmative, what discussions has his Ministry had with the RSPCA on acceptable humane methods of control?

My hon. Friend will know that I asked Lord Zuckerman to produce a report on this subject. He strongly confirmed that it was important to carry out an eradication policy or there would be a considerable spread of tuberculosis. He also pointed out that there would otherwise be a threat to the long-term prospects for the badger population. He asked for further research to be undertaken into the form of gassing used. I recently received a report showing that the form of gassing used was causing hardship to badgers beyond that expected. I therefore stopped that form of gassing. We are now having urgent discussions on the most humane and best methods of eradication.

I do not dissent from the right hon. Gentleman's action on bovine tuberculosis. However, is the Minister aware that his optimism about the dairy industry is slightly misplaced, given the effect on the price of butter of the common agricultural policy and the less than scrupulous approach of the margarine advertisers?

The decline in butter consumption over the years has added to the surplus in the Community. There are areas where consumption of dairy products is likely to increase. The consumption of cheese and yoghurts has been increasing and the consumption of flavoured milks is likely to increase considerably. I agree that there is a battle between the margarine and butter interests on the health aspect. It is not a judgment that I am qualified to make.

Is the right hon. Gentleman still as steadfast in his resistance to any threats to the dairy industry's doorstep delivery system? Is he confident in our ability to continue to resist such threats?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will publish a table showing the percentage increase or decrease in the average consumption per head of milk, butter and beef since 1970.

The percentage changes in average household consumption per head between 1970 and 1981 are as follows:

Does my right hon. Friend accept that at least some of these alarming reductions in food consumption are because many people, particularly pensioners and those on low incomes, cannot afford to pay the artificially high prices required by the common agricultural policy? Does he also accept that, at a time of high prices and falling consumption, it was criminal for the Minister of State to tell me yesterday that our exports of cheap subsidised food to Russia in 1981 were more than 3 million tonnes compared with 2 million tonnes in the previous year and less than 1 million tonnes in 1979?

I do not accept my hon. Friend's premise. He has chosen those three items, but I could choose other items also affected by the common agricultural policy, such as cheese, the consumption of which is up by 8·4 per cent. and pork, which is up by 35 per cent. There has been a considerable variation in eating habits. As the hon. Member for Rother Valley (Mr. Hardy) pointed out, the battle between margarine and butter has been based on the health aspect, not on the price factor.

Does the Minister regard as one of the blessings of Common Market membership the fact that the British public's consumption of butter has been reduced by 40 per cent. since we joined?

The fact is that as a result of health campaigns during that period there was a considerable switch to margarine. It is interesting to note that the market price for beef for most of that time has been above the guaranteed price in the Community. The reason, as beef producers know, is that the fixed price has been below production cost, and that has created a shortage of beef.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the increase in the price of milk is less than the increases in the retail price index and the food price index, and that both increases are less than the increase in average wages since we entered the Community? Does he further agree that there has been a failure in the marketing of milk and that no blame can be attached to the Community for the fall in milk consumption?

As my hon. Friend knows, the price of milk in this country is nothing to do with the CAP intervention price. It is an agreed price with the Dairy Trade Federation to retain the doorstep deliver service.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that his policy has probably done more to reduce butter consumption in Britain than the entire U-boat campaign in the Second World War? Have not two factors come together: first, a general decline in the standard of living, brought about by the Government, and, secondly, artificially high prices because of the Minister's adherence to a crazy policy of agriculture support? Will he bear in mind that as well as being the Minister of Agriculture he is the Food Minister and, as such, responsible for the consumer?

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on that good U-boat phrase. It is a remarkable phrase to use, as my one achievement in regard to butter has been to double the subsidy compared with what the Labour Government did.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the wholly unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I give notice that I intend to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity—[Interruption]—and the Minister should stop laughing.

Another Exocet missile.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many United Kingdom registered fishing vessels now fish in United Kingdom inshore waters; and how many there were in June 1978, June 1970 and June 1960, respectively.

The number of commercially active fishing vessels registered in the United Kingdom which are under 80ft in length are as follows:

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the increase indicated by those figures will be a surprise to many people? Does it not demonstrate that there is still some life in the fishing industry? Will he continue with his valiant efforts to conserve the stock of young fish, which is so necessary?

The figures show both an important switch to inshore fishing and that investment has continued in that industry.

In view of the general decline in the British fishing fleet, when will the right hon. Gentleman stop giving aid in a hand-to-mouth fashion, as a lure to encourage the industry to accept his forthcoming sell-out on the common fisheries policy? When will he announce a plan for restructuring the industry so that it can compete on equal terms with the new vessels that have been built by the French, the Dutch and the Danes?

I am sorry that my original answer did not fit in with the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. It showed that since 1970 there has been an increase of about 1,600 vessels in the inshore fleet. We are aware of the decline that took place in the long-distance fleet and of the period in which that took place. The hon. Gentleman may complain about my aid, but it is double that given by the last Government and he should have complained more often then.

In view of the increased catching capacity and the fact that, if that capacity is to be fully used, we should need access to 54 per cent. of the Community's total allowable catch, what proposals is the right hon. Gentleman considering with the Sea Fish Industry Authority for long-term restructuring and aid that is necessary?

We are having talks with all sections of the fishing industry about the longer-term programmes for restructuring and we are preparing the industry to take advantage of future opportunities.

In view of the considerable economic difficulties that are faced particularly by the pelagic sector, will my right hon. Friend introduce his aid package as soon as possible?

We are currently reviewing applications for the aid package. My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that in the first six months of this year there has, both in volume and price, been a substantial improvement in income compared with a year ago.

What provision does the Minister envisage to enable this increased fleet to catch fish if he agrees with the Community's proposals, to be discussed next week, for the British fishing industry?

'The hon. Gentleman knows that I shall agree to proposals that have the approval of the fishing industry.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what are the anticipated costs in the coming crop year of (a) storing the surplus European Economic Community production of sugar and (b) the producers' contribution in the form of export subsidies levied on excess output.

It is not yet possible to forecast the amount of surplus production from the 1982 crop that will be eligible for storage payments, or for how long it will be stored. On the second part of the question, if the levies by which producers contributed to the cost of export subsidies are imposed at the maximum rate during 1982–83, they are likely to raise about 550 million ECU, which is equivalent to £304 million at the current market rate of exchange.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that answer. Will the maximum permissible producers' contribution on the beet crop in 1981–82 cover all the costs of exporting from the Community? If not, what sort of deficit will arise to the Community?

It is estimated that a deficit of about £52 million will be incurred on exports of the 1981–82 crop. That deficit will be carried forward to be met from the producers' levy on the 1982–83 crop.

In fixing such a high price for sugar at about £250 a tonne, did the CAP Ministers, including my right hon. Friend, take into account the enormous damage done to the economies of some of the poorest countries by the dumping of EEC sugar on the world at a cost of about £100 a tonne?

In our negotiations we also took into account the improved price for ACP country exports to the European market.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what consultations he has had with representatives of the fishing industry since the last Council of Ministers meeting.

The main organisations representing the catching industry have been consulted about the Commission's latest proposals for total allowable catches and quotas put forward after the Fisheries Council on 29 June, and I expect to meet the leaders of the industry again before the next meeting of the Council in the week beginning 19 July.

Is the Minister aware that Scottish fishermen attach particular importance to the future of the north North Sea herring fishery? While it is true that stocks there have not recovered sufficiently for fishing to resume, it is vital that some agreement be reached on the future percentage share-out of fish in those waters before a settlement is reached.

I am well aware of the importance of that matter to the Scottish fishing industry. We are at present awaiting the conclusions of third country agreements that affect the availability of the herring stock. I agree that it is important to obtain a good percentage of those stocks for our fishermen.

If the Soviet Union and Polish shipping fleets can apparently make such a reasonable profit out of fishing around the Falkland Islands in the South Atlantic, what discussions has my right hon. Friend had with the British fishing industry about potential fishing in the South Alantic, particularly in respect of kryll, hake and other fish that are in abundance there and which, apparently, offer tremendous potential for the British fishing fleet?

On a number of occasions—indeed, prior to the current Falklands crisis—I have discussed the possibilities of South Atlantic fishing with our industry. Alas, I must report that it has not shown any great enthusiasm because it considers that the quality of some of the fish involved, combined with the cost, does not make it a potentially commercial operation. I am willing to discuss this matter further with the fishing industry.

As the right hon. Gentleman was somewhat agitated when he made his statement on the fishing agreement to the House last week, may I put something to him calmly and objectively? What will he do to compernsate the deep-water ports such as Hull, Fleetwood and Grimsby? What will he do to get alternative employment for fishermen who have lost their jobs? What will he do to make sure that communities that have lost a great deal, not only as a result of the 200 miles but because of the CAP, are able to have a decent living standard? Is he aware that many of our constituents are now without a decent standard of living?

We have been negotiating quota arrangements that will be of interest to the long distance fleet. We shall also be negotiating restructuring arrangements that will be of considerable importance. I am optimistic that in that sphere there will be considerable improvement on the proposals that were previously made.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food whether he has had discussions with the British Poultry Federation on health standards of the British poultry industry.

Close contact is maintained with representatives of the British poultry industry, both on health standards and on all related matters. We shall continue to seek to maintain existing policies to protect the health status of the national flock, in consultation with poultry interests.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the poultry industry places great importance on the maintenance of the highest possible health standards within the industry, especially with regard to Newcastle disease? Will she confirm that the Government believe that a policy of eradication is far better than a policy of vaccination? If perchance the European Court should continue to disregard the veterinary evidence, will the Government develop an adaptation of the Danish system, which will sustain the high health standards in the British poultry industry?

I cannot comment on the basis of the case in Europe, but my hon. Friend will know that we feel strongly about the correctness of our Newcastle disease policy. We shall continue to defend that policy vigorously.

Will the Government endeavour to ensure that the Common Market does not impose differential arrangements with regard to Newcastle disease upon Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom?

Yes, Sir.

Did the Minister listen carefully to what the hon. Member for Hereford (Mr. Shepherd) has just said? In the absence of a proper solution from the European Court, should we not be prepared to take the Danish line on Newcastle disease, and do it ourselves?

I reiterate my answer to my hon. Friend. I listened to his comments very carefully. I am not prepared to accept the hon. Gentleman's pessimistic view. We intend to defend our policy vigorously.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many tons of straw have been disposed of by burning on land over each of the past four years.

Detailed records of the tonnage of straw which has been burned in each of the past four years are not available. Estimates, which are based on surveys carried out in 1976 and 1977, show that the average tonnage burnt in England and Wales is about 3·9 million tonnes per annum.

Is the hon. Lady satisfied that that is the best way to dispose of straw and that the benefits derived from burning are far greater than any other method that could be adopted? If she agrees that other methods should be adopted, what advice will she give to the farmers to make sure that they make better use of their straw?

Research into alternative uses for straw has been carried out for many years and is still being actively pursued. There is little hope that such uses will account for more than a fraction of surplus straw in the foreseeable future.

Can my hon. Friend confirm that, failing any other method of disposal, there is an appreciable cost saving to farmers in being able to dispose of their straw by burning? If there is to be strong public reaction against this, will she consider asking her Ministry to make more of an effort to see whether a more effective alternative can be found?

I pointed out that research into alternative uses has been going on for some time and is still going on. My hon. Friend will know that the National Farmers Union, in consultation with my Department, has revised and strengthened the code for the burning of straw to provide additional safeguards where burning takes place.

Could not grassland used for straw burning be turned to more productive use if more effective marginal land schemes were in operation? Why is the Minister dragging his heels over the application to Brussels concerning the marginal land scheme that has been drawn up by his Department?

The question that the hon. Member for Dearne Valley (Mr. Wainwright) addressed to me was on the subject of straw burning and I think that I should be out of order if I attempted to answer the hon. Gentleman's questions.

Will the Minister bear in mind that this is a growing and serious problem and give every encouragement to the development of straw briquette-making, which could help considerably and would mean that there was not so much reliance on the coal industry. Does she agree that it is better to rely on agriculture in this regard?

My right hon. Friend visited a factory in Sittingbourne in Kent recently, which is using straw for making packaging equipment. We hope to see an extension of this good experiment.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food how many scientific civil servants were employed in the Ministry of Agriculture in May 1982, May 1981 and May 1979, respectively.

The information requested is not available for the dates stated. However, the number of scientific civil servants in the Ministry on 1 April of the three years in question was 1,895, 1,961 and 1,804 respectively.

Is the Minister aware that this vital Department is at the centre of research and development for the whole of our agriculture industry? Is the Minister further aware that many people working in that service are worried about its future, are concerned about their tenure, and are worried that the services that they are able to provide to agriculture will be far less in the future?

Having recently visited all of the regions and met the staff concerned, I am glad to say that I found morale high. I know that the hon. Gentleman will rejoice at the fact that the figures that I have given him show that there has been an increase in staff since the Government came to power.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what interest has been shown by flock owners in the voluntary schemes for the establishment of Maedi-Visna accredited flocks.

Flock owners have shown a considerable interest in the Maedi-Visna accredited flocks scheme since its launch on 1 May this year. Over 300 inquiries have been received from prospective scheme members representing the various breeds of sheep in this country.

Will my hon. Friend confirm that she will do everything that she can to encourage the continued interest in these schemes, because the disease is imported and difficult to discern and such schemes are important to safeguard our flocks?

There is evidence, I assure my hon. Friend, of considerable interest by flock owners, although it is not possible to say how many of the current inquiries will result in accredited flocks.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 8 July.

This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today.

Does my right hon. Friend accept that the recovery of the country will depend to a great degree on the productivity and performance of engineering firms, particularly the smaller ones? If so, will she find time today to discuss with her right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Industry the possible reintroduction of the small engineering firms investment scheme, which was withdrawn a few weeks ago because it was too successful, and under which firms could obtain a one—third grant towards investment in new machinery?

I agree with my hon. Friend that the small engineering firms investment scheme introduced in the Budget was very successful. The allocation for it then was £20 million, which has had to be increased to £30 million. However, we have had to close the scheme to applications from the end of May. I shall have a word with my right hon. Friend, but, in the meantime, other funds are available for high technology engineering and I hope that applications will be made for those.

Will the right hon. Lady find time to look at Tuesday's Hansard, in which she condemned ASLEF for trying to stick to a 1919 agreement? Why is it fine for her to fight to the bitter end in the Falklands for an 1832 agreement and have a full inquiry into the matter, but refuse to do anything about the ASLEF strike?

The two things bear no comparison to one another.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, while many people will feel that the wrangling over responsibility for the Falklands has certain party political overtones, there is, none the less, universal acclaim for our forces? Can she say whether any decision has yet been made on the award of a campaign medal for those forces who took part?

Yes. The Queen has approved the institution of a South Atlantic medal for those who served in the South Atlantic. At present, the details are contained in a White Paper which is at the printers, and which I hope will be laid before the House next week.

With regard to the point made by the hon. Member for Chorley (Mr. Dover) about the engineering industry, will the Prime Minister concede that the first casualty in any economic crisis is the construction industry, particularly in Scotland, where there are hundreds of thousands of people unemployed? Is she aware that if public funds were made available these people could be used to the best possible advantage of the country, getting them off supplementary benefit and working for the benefit of the country?

My right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer introduced a package for the construction industry in the last Budget. I know that the hon. Member and many other hon. Members wish that it could be larger. However, it could be larger if we spent less on current expenditure and allocated more for investment.

May I remind the Prime Minister of two recent public inquiries, neither of which has been followed up, and ask her whether she shares the uneasy feeling of the country that the Falklands inquiry could have a similar ending? Perhaps she will recall the Bingham inquiry into sanction—breaking in Rhodesia, and the Crown Agents inquiry, which cost the British taxpayer over £100 million, both of which revealed grave misdemeanours, but neither of which was followed through? Is she aware that there is concern in the country that the Falklands inquiry could lead to the same result?

Certainly the Crown Agents inquiry was prolonged, but it really consisted of two inquiries. I agree with my hon. Friend in his criticsm of the length of time. The Bingham inquiry, too, was quite long, and it was suggested that it should be followed by another, but that suggestion was not approved by the House. There has been a widespread demand for an inquiry over the Falklands. A number of people were involved—some of whom resigned—in the Falkland Islands issue, and they feel that they should have the privilege of an inquiry. I must take that fact into account, together with the widespread demand for an inquiry.

Are the Government still hoping to bid for the Nissan car company to set up its European manufacturing basis in this country? If so, what will be the right hon. Lady's response to the executives of that company who have criticised British industrial relations and our social class system?

I understand that the Nissan car company has not yet decided whether to continue its efforts to find a plant in Europe, whether to continue its efforts to come here, or whether it should postpone its searches for the time being. On the whole, Japanese management, when it has come to this country, has been most successful, and I hope that the Japanese will take the recent improvements in industrial relations in the private sector very much into account in any decisions that they make.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 8 July.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Will the Prime Minister tell the House today whether the shameful projected sale of Britoil will be by fixed price or by tender?

Such decisions are not taken until much nearer the time. We shall decide in the light of all previous experience and the advice that we receive.

Will my right hon. Friend take time today to study the wise words of the hon. Member for Derby, South (Mr. Johnson), which appear on the Order Paper as an amendment to early—day motion 596, in which he condemns the unjustified nature of the ASLEF strike and the hardship that it is causing to thousands of commuters?

I agree that the ASLEF strike is causing hardship to the travelling public and to many people whose small businesses depend on the railway service for freight or for getting supplies to their business. It is also very much against the future interests of the railways themselves. I hope that those who are having ASLEF meetings shortly will take that factor into account.

In the light of the reply that the right hon. Lady gave a minute or two ago about the sale of Britoil, will she say how she intends to ensure that the Government avoid the scandal that was associated with Amersham International? In view of the legislation that the Secretary of State for Energy has framed, will she make sure that he will make a statement to the House on how the matter is to be dealt with in the coming weeks, so that the country is not subjected to a similar scandal when the House is not sitting?

One can either put a sale out to fixed price or to tender. Many people are sometimes very wise in retrospect about the fixed price process. It is astonishing that many who are wise in retrospect do not criticise that same price when it is published in prospect.

Is the right hon. Lady really proud of what happened with Amersham International? Will she attempt to satisfy the House on the other matter, and get the Secretary of State to make a statement to the House before the recess about how the Government propose to proceed?

My right hon. Friend may not be ready to make such a statement before the recess. Nevertheless, it is important, if the market is right, that we should proceed with the sale. One thing is particularly important, and it is that those who work in the company should have a chance to purchase the shares. That factor should be taken into account in the method that is chosen. I say again that far more questions were asked of me after the sale of Amersham International than were ever asked of me about the price before the sale.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there are Conservative members who are concerned about the terms of reference of the inquiry into the Falklands Islands conflict, and that many of us believe that the inquiry should go back over at least 20 years, so that the civil servant niggers in the woodpile in the Foreign Office who have sold British interests down the river over many years are identified and their names made public, and so that not only Ministers resign, but that civil servants are moved to lesser positions where they cannot continue to damage British interests?

We shall be debating this matter later, but my hon. Friend will notice in the terms of reference that the Committee can take into account all such factors from previous periods as may be relevant to the questions that it has to decide.

And made public?

It is for the Committee to make public what it wishes, subject to the conditions that we shall put on publication of items such as Cabinet papers or security documents with a classification. I shall go into detail on the matter in the debate.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 8 July.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Is the Prime Minister aware of the serious anomaly that would exist if nurses were to accept the Government's revised pay offer? Now that phase 2 of the Government's fees and lodging allowance is to be activated, it means that some auxiliary nurses will be 68p a week worse off, staff nurses will be 1p a week better off, the average nurse will be 30p a week worse off, and ward sisters 69p a week worse off. Does the right hon. Lady agree that this is a serious anomaly and that it is rather unjust? As 60,000 out of 420,000 nurses will be affected, will she ask the Minister to reconsider the position?

The precise pattern of the pay award under the general 7½ per cent. increase is worked out by the Whitley council, and the offer is made by it. How the percentage varies from one grade of nurse to another is again a matter for the council to work out.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the suggestion made by my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Winterton) that the Foreign Office is a nest of spies and incompetents is more useful as a reflection of the state of his mind than as an indication of the true state of affairs?

I think that it would be as well to await the conclusions of the review, the setting up of which we have not yet debated.

Is not the Prime Minister betraying the trusteeship of the national interest that is placed in her hands by the country by refraining from bringing together the two parties in the railway dispute? If the British Railways Board is looking after the railway's interests and ASLEF is rightly looking after its members' interests, who is looking after the country's interests? Is that not the right hon. Lady's job?

The responsibility for running British Rail for the benefit of the travelling public and those who use British Rail for freight purposes is vested in the British Railways Board. It is for that board to run the railways according to the terms with which it is charged. Many people who work for the railways—indeed, the vast majority—are ready and willing to carry on, and I hope that that will soon apply to ASLEF—as it does at the moment to the NUR.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, along with hundreds of others, I travelled here today from Southend by train? Does my right hon. Friend think it appropriate to offer a word of encouragement and congratulation to the increasing number of train drivers who are continuing to serve the travelling public?

We were very pleased when the NUR took the decision that it did. As my hon. Friend suggests, I should like to offer encouragement and congratulations to those ASLEF drivers who are at work, carrying out their duties to the travelling public. They are serving themselves, their families and the railways far better than those who are out on strike.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 8 July.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Will the Prime Minister explain what sense it can possibly make to give such unquestioning support to the British Railways Board when the introduction of seven—to—nine hour flexible rostering will, according to British Rail's figures, save less that £ ½ million this year, which is less that one—tenth of 1 per cent. of the likely British Rail deficit, and when savings over the next three years will still be only £9 million, when the dispute is costing £9 million a day? Is that not a ludicrously false economy? Does it not suggest that the Prime Minister's real purpose in this dispute is to break ASLEF?

No. It suggests that those who are charged with the responsibility of running the railways should be allowed to get on with it. Conservative Members have not the arrogance to assume that they know how to run everything better than those charged with the duty of managing. The flexible rostering issue has been through all the railway negotiating procedures, including a lengthy and detailed examination by the Railway Staff National Tribunal under Lord McCarthy. The hon. Gentleman's strictures presumably apply to Lord McCarthy as well.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. During Prime Minister's Questions the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Winterton) described the generality of civil servants in the Foreign Office as "niggers". May we have a ruling, Mr. Speaker, on whether that is accepted parliamentary language when the officials concerned cannot answer back?

Order. The hon. Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Winterton) used the phrase that has been used many times and on which I do not wish to rule. The expression he used was "Nigger in the woodpile".