asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on how many days the Chief Constable of Northern Ireland has been out of Northern Ireland on official business from October 1982 to October 1983; for what purposes; and how these absences compare with each previous year since his appointment.

The number of occasions on which the Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary is out of Northern Ireland on official business, and the reasons for his absence, are matters for the Chief Constable himself and the Police Authority for Northern Ireland. I understand, however, that from 1 October 1982 to 7 October 1983 the Chief Constable undertook 16 duty engagements outside Northern Ireland, involving a total absence of 43 days.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that in the year during which the Chief Constable was absent for that period many of his officers were murdered, many of the officers of the Royal Ulster Constabulary Reserve were murdered, many civilians were murdered and many members of the Ulster Defence Regiment were murdered? He was out of the country for more than a month in a period of 12 months. What duties was he carrying out? Was the Police Authority responsible for his transport, for his hotel bills and for his air fare while he was absent?

The Chief Constable was out of the country on official business. He had the permission of the Police Authority, and it would have covered his expenses. think that it is very much to the credit of the Royal Ulster Constabulary that it has as Chief Constable a man who is in great demand to represent the force internationally. The work that he does in liaison with other police forces contributes significantly to the battle against terrorism in the Province.

As it has been reported in the press that the Chief Commissioner of the Garda Siochana is hesitant about meeting the Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, can the Minister confirm that this means that the Chief Constable will be out of Northern Ireland for fewer days next year? Will he comment on that report?

I think that Northern Ireland is immensely fortunate to have a man of such integrity as the Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary dedicating his energies and skills to the battle against terrorism. All I can say on the point that the right hon. Gentleman mentioned is that co-operation between the Garda Siochana and the Royal Ulster Constabulary has never been better.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what issues were discussed when he met the Northern Ireland committee of the Irish Congress of Trades Unions on 28 November 1983; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend's discussion with the Northern Ireland committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions covered a wide range of economic and other issues, including several employment matters, public expenditure, privatisation, energy policy and industrial promotion.

When the Secretary of State met the Northern Ireland committee, how did he explain the fact that long-term male unemployment in Northern Ireland has risen under this Government from 37 per cent. of unemployed men in 1979 to 48 per cent. now? Strabane has 50 per cent. male unemployment and unemployment in Northern Ireland is twice as high as it is in the rest of the United Kingdom. How did the right hon. Gentleman explain to the Northern Ireland committee that he expects support for sectarianism in the north of Ireland to decline, if the economic conditions of mass unemployment and poverty, which fuel that support, are not reduced?

Although I was not present on that occasion, I have no doubt that the members of the Northern Ireland committee and my right hon. Friend agreed that the levels of unemployment in Northern Ireland were far too high. Doubtless they might also have agreed that unemployment has an impact on security. That is why Her Majesty's Government are prepared to place the current level of financial support behind the Province. It is on the record of the meeting that the members of the committee congratulated the Government on having helped to secure orders for Harland and Wolff, which is largely male employing. They congratulated Shorts on the orders which it is obtaining, again an undertaking which is largely male employing. They congratulated the Government, too, on concluding the deal with the Republic of Ireland Government on Kinsale gas, which will provide many jobs.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it in order——

Order. I shall deal with points of order afterwards. If they are taken now, time will be taken from Question Time.

Why is the Minister reporting on a meeting at which he was not present? Can he comment on press reports that the Secretary of State is considering the establishment of an investment bank for Northern Ireland to deal with the real problem of high interest rates? If that is so, can he indicate how is it proposed that the bank should be financed? What will be the control structure and what will be the criteria for obtaining low-interest loans?

First, I have said nothing which has not been said publicly before. Secondly, if an investment bank is set up it will operate on commercial lines. I imagine that interest rates will reflect that. An interest relief grant is available to the Industrial Development Board and to the Local Enterprise Development Unit, which may help when interest charges are an especial burden on a company which is trying to invest.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the security situation in Northern Ireland.

Sadly I have to inform the House that since I last answered questions on 10 November, two members of the RUC, one UDR soldier and nine civilians have died in incidents arising from the security situation. The brutal murder of three of these civilians in the attack on Mountain Lodge Pentecostal hall on 20 November, about which I made a statement to the House the next day, and the cold-blooded murder of Mr. Edgar Graham, about which my hon. Friend the Minister of State made a statement yesterday, clearly demonstrate the barbarity of terrorism.

Will my right hon. Friend accept that it is now his duty to remain in post to restore security in Northern Ireland, and by every word, act and deed convey to the terrorists the simple message that they will not win?

It is not often that I agree with my hon. Friend, but on this occasion I agree wholeheartedly with everything that he has said.

Does the Secretary of State accept that it is not a proper excuse for security spokespersons to say that victims of terrorism did not ask for special protection, especially when they were aware of the dangers and when they tell us that the security authorities know best? Will he further accept that no responsible politician would ask for personal protection which could not be provided for his constituents?

Yes. I should like to make it plain that I realise the intensity of the hon. Gentleman's feelings, which I fully understand and share. It would be unreasonable if the decision whether protection was to be given was left to the individual, including the decision to ask for it. If the police think that there is that degree of risk, they should say that protection is to be given, and it should be given. I do not suggest that it was the responsibility of Mr. Edgar Graham to ask for protection.

In the light of the terrorist statistics which the Secretary of State has outlined, will he state which of the following propositions he believes to be the more unreasonable: that Northern Ireland Members should request meetings with the Chief Constable of Northern Ireland about incidents in their constituencies, or that the Chief Constable should refuse all such meetings?

The Chief Constable is responsible for security and I wish to make it plain that he must make his own decisions. He is responsible to the Police Authority. I believe that Northern Ireland is extremely fortunate in having a man of the integrity of the present Chief Constable. He is faced with extremely difficult problems. I understand the hon. Gentleman's point about the Chief Constable's relationship with Members of Parliament. There is a problem there, but, in the specific and special circumstances of Northern Ireland, it must be for the Chief Constable to decide whom he sees and whom he does not. I have offered a meeting with the political leaders at which both the Chief Constable and the GOC would be present. I shall ascertain whether there are other ways of making a meeting possible.

May I return to the question of the tragic death of Mr. Edgar Graham yesterday? Does the right hon. Gentleman recall the allegation that Mr. Graham made in the Assembly recently, which was that so-called Loyalist paramilitaries and Republican paramilitaries were collaborating to kill Ulster politicians, who have a much more difficult job than any of us in this place? Is there any evidence that the allegation made by Mr. Graham of collaboration between killers, who have more in common with one another than they do with anyone else, was true?

There is no specific evidence, although there is a good deal of anecdotal evidence to that effect. I join the right hon. Gentleman in saying that those who take the responsibility of democratic government in Northern Ireland have an extraordinarily difficult job to undertake. I should like to thank them for the part that they play.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, with the unending abominations and atrocities that come from the troubled Province of Northern Ireland, there is great support for him in all corners of the House as he undertakes his duties, and that many hon. Members are prepared to ensure that whatever resources are necessary are provided to help him to restore law and order in the Province?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I asked both the GOC and the Chief Constable whether they required additional resources and they told me that they did not. If at any time they come to me—I have seen the Chief Constable three times in the past 24 hours—and ask for additional resources, I know that the Government will be prepared to grant them. We need to have the best security forces that we can possibly provide and the wholehearted co-operation of all people in Northern Ireland, in the same way as I believe that I have the wholehearted co-operation of everyone in the House in doing what I can.

rose——

Order. There are later questions on security.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what advice he has given to the health and social services boards regarding economies in the cost of the home help service.

No advice has been given to the health and social services boards specifically on economies in the cost of the home help service.

Given that it is desirable that all expenditure should be carefully scrutinised, is the Minister aware of disquieting information which reaches hon. Members, particularly in the area of some boards, that a kind of rule of thumb is being applied to cut down expenditure on the home help service without regard to particular circumstances? Will he concern himself to look into the background of that impression?

I shall certainly look into the background. A joint review group of the Department and the area boards is looking at the home help service. As the right hon. Gentleman will doubtless know, we are spending 91 per cent. more on the home help service than three years ago. We are spending in all £16 million on the home help service, but I recognise that despite that increase there is still concern, and we need to look into the matter.

Does the Minister appreciate that the Opposition are strongly opposed to any cuts in the home help service, which is crucial within the Health Service, and nor do we look kindly on any other attempt to cut the Health Service in the ways that it has been cut in some areas in Northern Ireland?

The home help service has been increasing during the past few years. It is not without relevance that 19·4 per thousand of the population over 65 in Northern Ireland are provided with the service, whereas in England the figure is 6·5 per thousand. There are still difficulties, but there is increased spending on the Health Service in Northern Ireland, not cuts as the hon. Gentleman suggested.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to what other services he proposes to allocate any estimated underspending on the Northern Ireland Assembly for the current year.

I do not at present expect Assembly expenditure for the current financial year to be significantly different from that originally estimated.

Whether the expenditure savings will be great or small, and given the point made by the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Mr. Latham), will the Secretary of State ensure that financial considerations will in no circumstances impair the operational efficiency of the security forces? Will the Government give the highest possible priority to the elimination of terrorism, which must be a prerequisite for any form of political process?

I confirm that the Government will give the utmost priority to the elimination of terrorism and provide the resources necessary to do so. I have never been asked by my colleagues to cut back on anything required for defence or law and order, and I am certain that they would not ask me to do so now.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether he will indicate the likely impact of the Chancellor's statement of 17 November on the Northern Ireland economy.

My right hon. Friend's statement of 17 November reflected the Government's strategy of creating a sound base for sustained economic recovery which will benefit all regions of the United Kingdom. The Chancellor's statement included a planning figure for public expenditure in Northern Ireland next year of £4,020 million; in line with the planning total for 1984–85 published in the last public expenditure White Paper. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will be making a statement shortly giving details of the allocation of this Northern Ireland total.

Given the cuts that are being imposed on the Health Service in Northern Ireland, and recognising the CBI's view that employers in Northern Ireland will continue to shed labour, does the Minister now agree with his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State that it is important that the Government should show greater determination in fighting unemployment? Does he agree also that if the number of people unemployed is reduced that may make some contribution to reducing the number of potential terrorists?

I have already agreed to the point about reducing the number of potential terrorists. If the hon. Gentleman had listened to what my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State said a few moments ago, he would know that my hon. Friend repudiated the suggestion of cuts in the Health Service in Northern Ireland. The House must wait for the statement by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer about the allocation of expenditure for next year. The figure that I gave will be very near the total that will be announced. That represents an increase in spending in the Province which will be reflected in almost all Departments.

Does the Minister agree that Northern Ireland is now the only area in Western Europe where the unemployment figures are higher than for those employed in manufacturing industry and that that qualifies it to be described as "an economic disaster area"? Does he agree also that the seriousness of the economic problem is now seriously interacting with the security problem? What special measures have the Government in mind to deal with that difficulty?

It is a matter of fact that the numbers out of work exceed those employed in manufacturing. I cannot say how the Northern Ireland position compares with that elsewhere. More serious from the point of view of the economy of the Province is the narrowness of the manufacturing base, which is represented by approximately 1,000 people. I believe that the hon. Gentleman is well aware of the incentive package which we introduced in the spring of this year, which is having an effect. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will share my satisfaction in, for instance, the success which the Industrial Development Board is having in attracting would-be investors to Northern Ireland. There are about five times the number of such investors now visiting the Province compared with last year, and some investment will flow from those visits. I can confirm that from my experience last week in North America, and we must take encouragement from that.

Further to the suggestion of my hon. Friend for an investment bank — presumably partly funded by the taxpayer—what is the point of such a bank if it is run on commercial lines?

The plans for such a bank are being investigated by the Industrial Development Board and other financial institutions. The Province is looking for an investment bank because it is short of private sector funds for this purpose. It is short of vehicles for private sector investment. As I said earlier, it is my understanding that if an investment bank were set up it would be entirely commercial, but it would operate in parallel with the Industrial Development Board.

If these extra Government incentives in the economy are so valuable in Northern Ireland, why are they not used here?

The hon. Gentleman has always believed that money grows on trees. It is taxpayers and the more prosperous parts of the country — whether they are personal or industrial taxpayers—that are having to put down money from their pockets to help Northern Ireland. I believe—I hope that the hon. Gentleman does as well —that they are ready to do so because of the special problems. It would be nonsensical if every part of the country were helped in that way.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what discussions he has had with political leaders in Northern Ireland about the future of the Assembly.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the working of the Assembly.

I have regular discussions with political leaders in Northern Ireland on a wide range of topics, including the Assembly. The Government believe that the Assembly continues to offer a framework within which progress could be made towards a lasting and acceptable political settlement. It is in the interests of all the people of Northern Ireland that constitutional parties should participate in it.

Is the Secretary of State not being rather optimistic about the future of the Assembly? Is it not now time for him to come forward with a new political initiative, given that it is unlikely that the Assembly has much future?

If one is not optimistic about something in Northern Ireland, one is not suited to do anything. I believe that the Assembly provides the best way of improving democratic control within Northern Ireland by the people of Northern Ireland. I hope that those who have so far refused to take part in, or who have found some excuse to come out of, the Assembly will have second thoughts. As I said once before, it is easy enough to knock down democratic institutions; it is quite hard work to build them up.

Does my right hon. Friend accept that, despite the acts of barbarous terrorism to which he referred, people in Great Britain still expect and prefer a political to a military solution in Northern Ireland and believe that those acts demonstrate the need for political leaders to come together to work out the Province's problems?

I endorse what my hon. Friend said. I had hoped that the Assembly would be one means by which, gradually, we could not only get people to work together but bring forward fresh political leaders. One of the tragedies about the death of Mr. Edgar Graham is that he was a young man who was making his reputation in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Does the Secretary of State appreciate that the future of the Assembly in its present form does not depend on him, and that he has handed a veto to the hon. Member for Foyle (Mr. Hume) and the SDLP on the future of the Assembly?

No, Sir. The future of the Assembly depends on all the people of Northern Ireland. It is true that both the Nationalist and Unionist communities have a veto on progress, if that is the way they wish it to be. However, I should have thought that the events of the past few days demonstrated beyond doubt the need for both sides to come together.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is the purpose of the IRA and the INLA to smash the Assembly, and therefore that it behoves those who were democratically elected to throw their weight behind it? Will he draw the attention of the House to the nine columns in Hansard yesterday, when he answered questions by my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson) about the successes of the Assembly?

Yes, Sir. I am convinced that the purpose of the IRA, the INLA and other terrorist organisations is to bring about total anarchy in Northern Ireland. We are playing into their hands if we react to that. That is why it is vital that people take part in democratic institutions, stay there and get over some of the problems.

Is the Secretary of State aware that there are those on Opposition Benches who support him totally in his efforts to keep the Assembly afloat and who would much regret its demise? Does he accept that, as far as we are concerned, he should take no initiative other than to make sure that the Assembly keeps afloat?

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he has said. I do not have so much support that I do not take it from wherever I can get it.

Will the Secretary of State admit that few people in Northern Ireland have any faith in the Assembly? Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the two main parties in the Assembly — one of which has just withdrawn—rejected the terms for devolution of power which the Government laid down before the Assembly elections took place, that being the fourth occasion in a decade on which they rejected the terms for the devolution of power which the House had laid down? That being so, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the Assembly was stillborn?

That exemplifies well the problems that I have. One major party rejected the terms for one reason and the other major party rejected them for precisely the opposite reason. In phase one of the Assembly I was trying to get people at least to consider the problems of Northern Ireland and to monitor direct rule, as the hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley) said. The Civil Service has had to respond to the wishes of the Assembly in a way that it has not had to do for 10 years. That is a good thing for the people of Northern Ireland.

As it is clear that legislative devolution is a considerable way off, does my right hon. Friend agree that it would be sensible to consider the way in which legislation affecting Northern Ireland is examined and approved by the House?

Any changes to the way in which legislation is brought to and approved by the House would create a fresh series of problems. My hon. Friend and the House should not kid themselves that there is an easy answer simply through integration.

Does the Secretary of State accept that, whatever our reservations about the Assembly, the Opposition believe that it would be a tragedy if the departure of any group from the Assembly were thought to have been brought about by an act of terrorism, as that would encourage the belief that any political intitiative could be destroyed by the bomb and the gun?

I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman for what he has said. We would be playing into the hands of the terrorists if, as a result of their actions, the Assembly failed.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many long-stay patients there are in mental hospitals in Northern Ireland.

At 31 December 1982, 2,825 patients in Northern Ireland's psychiatric hospitals had been there for one year or more.

Does the Minister agree that there is a correlation between stress and mental illness? Bearing in mind the increasingly stressful situation in Northern Ireland, is it not time that further resources were devoted to that area of medicine to provide for those who ate suffering as a result of the troubles over there?

We have been putting more resources into that area, particularly to enable more people to go back into the community. That is why, for example, we have increased the number of statutory community hostel places, and why, over the past three years, we have increased the number of community psychiatric nurses by 50 per cent. We want to build on those foundations.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what improvements have recently been made in the security of the Province, particularly near the border.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he has ensured that the recent reinforcement of the security forces along the frontier with the Irish Republic is not limited to the area he has described as the Dundalk corridor.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he is satisfied with security in South Armagh, since the atrocity at Mountain Lodge Pentecostal hall.

Security force operations and the deployment of policemen and soldiers are essentially matters for the professional judgment of the security force commanders. I am, however, in regular contact with the Chief Constable and the GOC, and am satisfied that the level of security operations along the border takes full account of the situation in that area. A Deputy Chief Constable has assumed direct responsibility for border security and an additional Assistant Chief Constable has been appointed to assist him. Additional troops have been deployed in the area to assist the Royal Ulster Constabulary.

Is not co-operation from the Republic all important? Has there been a lessening of the security effort from south of the border? Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that there are now good relations between the RUC and the Garda Siochana?

Yes, Sir. Security co-operation is essential from the point of the view of both the North and the Republic. Relations between the RUC and the Garda Siochana are good. I have no reason to believe that, despite newspaper reports to the contrary, there has been any lack of co-operative effort between the North and the South. All I can say is that I believe, as does the South, that it can always be subject to improvement.

Does the Secretary of State accept that five members of the RUC on duty in 100 sq miles close to the frontier in my constituency, after 12 o'clock at night, does not show that the security advice is as good as he asserts it is?

These matters are essentially for the Chief Constable and the security operations. Of course I shall consider any particular point that the hon. Gentleman raises, but I hope that in turn he will raise the matter with the Deputy Chief Constable, who has been appointed with special responsibilities for these matters.

The security situation in my constituency is most serious, to say the least, with the murder of my friend and colleague, the chairman of Armagh district council, Mr. Charles Armstrong, and other murders of friends and neighbours at the Mountain Lodge pentecostal hall. Will the Secretary of State assure the House and my constituents that there will not be a further cosmetic exercise on security but that there will be a more sustained and realistic policy, designed to win rather than to contain?

The hon. Gentleman's constituency has suffered greatly. I share his feelings over the terrible ordeals from which it has suffered. I assure him that our policy is not only to contain violence. It is to beat violence, but it must be left to the GOC and the Chief Constable to determine the manner in which they conduct those operations.

Does the Secretary of State agree that at present border security is not considered effective? A senior officer of the RUC admitted to a deputation from my party that border security could be more effective. Does the Secretary of State agree that it is about time that we stopped pussy-footing around with the IRA, took it on, and put our security forces on a war footing?

Our security forces are on an operational footing and everything that can be done will be done. It is all very well for the hon. Gentleman and others to make out that we are only half-hearted or that we are not trying. They should suggest what else we can do that is within the law. It must be within the law.

In view of the number of battalions that are now deployed in the UDR, the nature of the recruitment to that regiment of the British Army in Northern Ireland, and in view of recent incidents, is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that there is sufficient screening of potential recruits to those battalions to prevent the occurrence of incidents such as we have read about this week?

Yes, Sir. I am satisfied that screening is very thorough. It takes some months. I am also satisfied that the Ulster Defence Regiment is performing a magnificent duty in Northern Ireland. It is equally important to recognise that when, as in recent days, alleged offences have been committed, it is probably only in the United Kingdom that such action would be taken as has occurred. It shows the total impartiality and integrity of all that we do to keep law and order in Northern Ireland.

Will my right hon. Friend tell us whether any progress has been made on his offer to the four party leaders to come and talk to him, the GOC and the Chief Constable about security matters? Does he agree that, of all the unreasonable actions that have been taken by various leaders at various times, this is possibly the most unreasonable of all, because it is at just such a meeting that the questions asked, very reasonably, by the hon. Members for Fermanagh and South Tyrone (Mr. Maginnis) and for Mid-Ulster (Rev. William McCrea), and other elected representatives to both the Assembly and this House, can get frank and honest answers from the people whose responsibility it is?

My very sincere attempts were not successful. I had to make it clear that I found the excuses for refusal of three of the four leaders unconvincing, anomalous and incredible. However, it is no good going back over the ground at this time. We have to try to find other ways to achieve the same aim.

Will the Secretary of State initiate talks with the Dublin Government about the possibility of establishing an all-Ireland court and an all-Ireland police force, which could go a long way to deal with the understandable fears of many people on both sides of the border?

We must first make certain that our cooperation across the border is the best that can be obtained. I do not want to comment further.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what was the total cost of social security payments in Northern Ireland in 1982.

In the financial year 1982–83, the total sum paid was £924,536,085.

In view of the Minister's complacent replies to my hon. Friends the Members for Coventry, South-East (Mr. Nellist) and for Leeds, Central (Mr. Fatchett), will the Minister take this opportunity to accept the simple proposition that in Northern Ireland, as in the rest of the country, it is better to use such resources to create jobs rather than to pay people to be unemployed?

I am not aware of having been complacent. I do not believe that many people could reasonably argue that the main reason for Northern Ireland's serious economic problems is inadequate public expenditure.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what further discussions he had, on his recent visit to the United States of America, concerning the alignment of policy regarding the implementation of the extradition agreement between the two countries.

There was no need for such discussions since there is no difference of policy on extradition between this Government and the United States Administration. We have received every assistance from the United States in instituting extradition proceedings.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply, but is not the problem really the interpretation of what constitutes a political offence in many United States courts? Does he agree that some of the decisions that have been made appear to have had more to do with the political prejudices of the courts than with an attempt to find an honest answer to the proper interpretation of the extradition laws? Is there anything further that my right hon. Friend and his colleagues can do to try to remove that exacerbation?

As I think my hon. Friend knows, legislation is currently before Congress that is intended to limit the courts' discretion to refuse extradition where persons claim that their offences are political. I think that that goes to the root of the problem, and we hope that the legislation will be successful.

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what is the average number of hours overtime worked by the Royal Ulster Constabulary and Royal Ulster Constabulary Reserve in Strabane during the week prior to the recent public house bombing there.

Records of overtime working in the Royal Ulster Constabulary are maintained on a monthly basis for sub-divisions and are normally collated some four to six weeks in arrears. The overtime worked by Royal Ulster Constabulary officers in the Strabane sub-division in the period before the bombing on 4 November is not, therefore, expected to be available until mid-January. However, I can tell the hon. Gentleman that between June and September of this year each full-time officer based in Strabane sub-division worked, on average, 63 hours overtime per month.

In the light of the Minister's statement will he tell the House why the Police Authority admitted to me, while on a deputation from the Democratic Unionist party, that instructions about manpower hours were misunderstood by those in charge and that redirections had to be ordered?

If the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that overtime is cut down on the ground of cost, and that operations suffer as a result, what he says is totally untrue.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 8 December.

This morning I presided at a meeting of the Cabinet and had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further meetings later today, including one with the United States Treasury Secretary, Mr. Donald Regan.

Can the Prime Minister explain what is happening at Windscale and why, despite all the inspection agencies and assurances from the industry, 25 miles of beach have been closed, radioactivite samples 1,000 times more than normal have been discovered, and the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food refuses to release all the information that it is alleged to have? Can the Prime Minister initiate an immediate inquiry and let the House know when this fiasco will end?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, people have already been advised to keep away from those beaches, but inquiries are under way — one by Sir Douglas Black into the incidence of leukaemia in the area, and the other by the proper authorities into any leaks from Windscale and the effects that they may have. Both of those inquiries are already under way and there is no point in adding to them.

Has my right hon. Friend noted the disgraceful scenes at Brent council last night by a Left-wing "Rentamob"? Is she aware of its determination to stop a coalition of Conservatives and Liberals from taking control of that council? In view of the fact that last week the Leader of the Opposition took so long to condemn violence on the picket lines at Warrington, does she think that perhaps today the Leader of the Opposition will unequivocally condemn the violence that was committed last night by members of his party in Brent?

I saw reports of the disgraceful scenes, which really amounted to mob rule by the Fascist Left. That is what happens when they take power, and hope that the Leader of the Opposition will condemn it.

Will the Prime Minister, in the course of her busy day, refer to her statement yesterday that there would be no unilateral withdrawal of the British contingent from Beirut? Is she saying that there is a veto by the United States, France and Italy over British foreign and defence policy?

No, Sir. The hon. Gentleman's two statements are not compatible. I said that we would not have unilateral withdrawal. This morning there has been a meeting between the four Foreign Secretaries who represent the countries in the multinational force. The MNF continues its good work in the Lebanon.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Thursday 8 December.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Will the Prime Minister give some time today to consider the problems facing the 9·2 million pensioners in this country? They received an increase in their pension of 3·7 per cent. last month, and many of them are anxious about how they will heat their homes this winter. Will the Prime Minister give a clear undertaking to pensioners that she will not increase gas prices this winter?

On the amount that pensioners have, if one takes our record over the whole period—[HON. MEMBERS: "Ah!"]—since the last of the Labour increases, the pension is 74 per cent. higher than it was then, while the RPI is about 70 per cent. higher. So, in real terms, it is higher than at any time under the Labour Government. There have also been generous fuel additions which, again in real terms, are higher than at any time under the Labour Government. That is not a bad record.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the tactics used by Left-wing Labour councillors in Brent to gag their opponents and ride roughshod over democracy? Is this not reminiscent of pre-war Fascist Germany?

I understand that, via a number of procedural devices, Conservative and Liberal councillors were effectively gagged in full council meetings. If that is correct, one can only totally and utterly condemn it as being contrary to every tenet of democracy.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 8 December.

I refer the right hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Will the Prime Minister agree that she has been arguing in Europe for the principle that the poorest members should not pay the heaviest burden. If that is so, how about applying that principle at home where she can implement it? We have 1,068,000 people who are longterm unemployed and who are being denied long-term supplementary benefit. That means that married couples are being robbed of £11 a week — a quarter of their income. Unless the Prime Minister acts on that principle, is she aware that she can be accused of double standards?

No, I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman's accusation. The unemployed receive, in the first instance, unemployment benefit from their insurance. Over and above that they receive, as the right hon. Gentleman says, supplementary benefit. The two in total amount to about £5 billion. I think that the two are reasonable under the circumstances.

Has the Prime Minister yet had a chance to look at this morning's figures, which, sadly, confirm the fact that the 25 per cent. annual rate of increase in business failures is continuing? Can the right hon. Lady say which policies she will change to reverse this sad trend?

Unemployment, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, appears to have peaked. The number of vacancies is not increasing as fast as we would wish. There is very considerable interest in the new enterprise allowance. As he will have seen from "Social Trends", a record number of people are self-employed. This means that there is a great deal of interest in enterprise. The success or failure of a business depends not upon what the right hon. Gentleman or I say, but upon whether the business produces goods and services which people will buy.

I should be very glad to have further good news. I at least agree with the Prime Minister's view on competitiveness. Does she not concur with me when I say that it is extremely sad that, in the four years in which she has been Prime Minister, competitiveness has gone down by 30 per cent. and investment has gone down by 20 per cent.? Given the recovery about which she talks, is she aware that if the present "rate of progress" were sustained it would take 160 years to get back to the level that we enjoyed in 1979? Will the Prime Minister answer my original question and say whether the 160-year wait is part of a medium or long-term strategy?

As the right hon. Gentleman is referring to 1979 and to industrial effort, I point out that output per head and output per hour now are 11 per cent. and 14 per cent. respectively above the previous cyclical peak of 1979. May I, on investment, refer the right hon. Gentleman to the Chancellor of the Exchequer's speech in the last full day's debate that we had on this subject, when he gave full details on capital and current expenditure and pointed out that when one has a true definition of capital expenditure it is about the same now as it was during the year 1978–79.

Will my right hon. Friend find time today to talk to the Law Officers to see whether they can find a way to prevent authorities such as the GLC and Camden from spending ratepayers' money on Labour party propaganda?

I think that that would probably be, as my hon. Friend indicates, a matter for the district auditors or the Law Officers. I think that we would all deplore the expenditure of ratepayers' money on party political propaganda, particularly those hard-pressed ratepayers of London, including small businesses, who want rates to go down, not up.

asked the Prime Minister what are her official engagements for 8 December.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

While recognising that hardly anything has gone right for the Prime Minister in the past few weeks —I am sorry about that—was it not unjust to deprive the Lord Privy Seal and Leader of the House of Commons of his job of co-ordinating Government policy? Why does not the Prime Minister, like the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Secretary of State for Energy, in their coded ways, recognise the fact that it is the Government's policies that are so damaging to Britain, not their co-ordination?

I note that the hon. Gentleman thinks that getting inflation down is very damaging for Britain—although our record is far better than his—and that the record of output per head is very damaging for Britain, although I think that it is very good. We have done far better on the National Health Service than the Labour Government — [Interruption.] The Labour Government actually reduced provision for the National Health Service in real terms in two of the five years —1976–77 and 1977–78—that they were in office. The fact is that the Conservative Government have been very good for Britain, as was recognised at the last general election.

When, later today, my right hon. Friend receives the United States Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. Donald Regan, will she discuss with him the reasons why economic policies which can broadly, but fairly, be described as at least neo-Keynesian seem to have brought such beneficial effects to the United States economy? Before our next Budget is finalised, could the principles of British economic policy be rigorously re-examined with an open mind?

In spite of what my hon. Friend said, a Budget deficit of this kind is causing high interest rates, which are extremely damaging to this and other European countries. Further, it is preventing us from getting the amount of investment that we should have in this country because much capital is withdrawing to the United States. The United States also has a fantastic balance of trade deficit in contrast to the figures for this country, where we have a £1·2 billion surplus so far this year. I would rather be in our position, which is sustainable, than in that of United States which, I believe, will cause great trouble within 12 months.

Has the Cabinet yet been able to make up its collective mind on the question of breaking the solicitor's monopoly on house conveyancing? If it has not, will the Government continue merely to talk about competition policy while creating private monopolies and maintaining professional monopolies?

An announcement will be made when the matter comes before the House shortly.

asked the Prime Minister if she will pay an official visit to Enfield.

I have at present no plans to do so.

My constituents will be disturbed to learn that my right hon. Friend will not be visiting them. Had she planned to visit them, is she aware that they would have expressed deep concern at the events that took place in Brent last night and that they, together with the rest of the country, will take the silence of the Leader of the Opposition at Question Time today as condoning the actions last night?

The events in Brent were a disgrace to democracy and a revelation of the true nature of the Fascist Left.

Will the Prime Minister find time today to read an article—[Interruption.]

Order. The hon. Gentleman has a right to be heard.

Will the Prime Minister find time today to read an article in Monday's edition of The Times, which was written by Mr. David Hart, a political adviser to the Prime Minister's Office, in which he accuses National Health Service——

Order. The hon. Gentleman has not related his question to Enfield. We must move on to business questions.

I want to ask a question.

Order.

I was going to mention Enfield.

I do not know what the hon. Gentleman was going to say. I only know what he did say. I did not hear him refer to Enfield in his question. We shall move on to business questions.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I was shouted down before I even had a chance to mention Enfield and before I reached the end of my first sentence. If that had not happened I would have been in order. May I ask my question.

I must say that I did not hear the hon. Gentleman say anything about Enfield in his preliminary remarks. However, in the spirit of Christmas, I shall let him finish his question, if he relates it to Enfield.

Would the Prime Minister care to comment on an article in Monday's edition of The Times by a Mr. David Hart, who accused National Health Service workers in Enfield and elsewhere—[Laughted]—of theft and moonlighting? Is Mr. David Hart a political adviser to the Prime Minister's Office, and is it the same Mr. David Hart who went bankrupt a few years ago for nearly £1 million, ran up debts of £1,000 in a Chelsea restaurant and in antique shops, and who is highlighted in today's edition of the Daily Mirror? What sort of advice is the right hon. Lady taking from such an adviser?

Mr. Hart is not a political adviser to me, or to No. 10. If the hon. Gentleman has any quarrel with him, I suggest that he puts it to him personally.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the Christmas spirit, cannot we have one more question from an hon. Member who represents Enfield?

Christmas is some way off.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In the previous exchanges, great political capital was made out of my constituency of Brent. I was at the meeting referred to— [Interruption.] I think that you, Mr. Speaker, will acquit me of being a militant or aggressive person. I have had no chance to reply to that exchange. Is there any way in which I can put the record straight? The comments made about the incident are quite out of keeping with my construction of a complex matter.

I am very sorry that I have been unable to call the hon. Gentleman. I suggest that he tries again next Tuesday.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You will be aware that the House Buyers Bill will come before the House next Friday. Several hon. Members will be financially involved in that Bill, in that they are solicitors. You will also recall that when several hon. Members were similarly involved in the Lloyd's Bill Mr. Speaker advised the House about how those affected should vote or conduct themselves. Will you do a similar service to the House this time?

I fully intend to do so.