asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether his decision to allow Northumberland education authority to close Beadnell village school at the second application was based on any change of general policy towards village schools.

No, Sir.

As there was no change of circumstances at the school between the first and second applications, why does the Minister think that his predecessor was wrong to refuse the original application? Is he aware that Northumberland and other authorities regard the decision as a signal of a change in general policy and that he will shortly receive another application to close a village school at Craster in Northumberland?

When my right hon. Friend wrote to the hon. Gentleman on 25 July he made it clear that he decided to approve the authority's new proposal to close the school because circumstances had changed. Numbers of pupils at the school were likely to fall. The extent of the decline might be a matter for disagreement, but there is no doubt that the school would have been extremely small and that the educational disadvantages which that inevitably entails would have come about. Moreover, the authority had agreed to make arrangements for transport to alternative Church schools if parents so desired.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what studies are in hand to examine the relationship between academic results and the form of organisation of secondary schools.

The Department is not currently sponsoring any research studies which are concerned solely with this topic but it is assessing the possibilities for research in this area as a preliminary to considering whether public funds should be committed to it.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that his statisticians are now satisfied, contrary to earlier press reports, that recent research into examination results in grammar, secondary modern and comprehensive schools for the National Council of Educational Standards by Lady Cox and Dr. Marks was valid, based on a proper sample and professionally sound? Will my right hon. Friend consider the NCES equally with the National Children's Bureau and other similar bodies for grant purposes, as both do valid research? Does he agree—

Order. The hon. Gentleman has asked about three questions already.

Will my right hon. Friend repudiate the blacking of that research by Opposition Members and some educational ideologues because they dislike its findings?

It is clear from the letter by my statisticians, which by normal convention I do not publish, that they never used the word "flawed" in referring to the report. They have accepted that the samples which were used for the report were valid and that the difference between them and the report is one which is often argued between professional researchers about the extent to which regression analyses should be used.

I thank the Secretary of State for his handsome apology to me for misrepresenting my letter to The Times of 3 December at the Report stage of the Education (Grants and Awards) Bill. Is he aware that the question still remains whether he is prepared to accept the professional advice of his Department that the Cox and Marks study seriously underestimated the impact of social and economic factors on examination results? Will he now reassure the House that he intends to live up to the standards of his high office and his personal standards as a Fellow of All Souls and re fuse to give the backing of public moneys to Cox and Marks, who have broken the cardinal rule of research by fixing the evidence to produce the results which confirm their own particular prejudice?

I deny the proposition about the attitude of Cox and Marks. The area of disagreement is one that often occurs with statisticians, and I shall consider all proposals on their merits.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will monitor the way in which local education authorities provide religious education and daily corporate acts of worship in schools.

Responsibility for ensuring that the statutory requirements are met rests in the first instance with local education authorities and the governing bodies of schools. Information about current practice in schools is available to my right hon. Friend from Her Majesty's inspectors.

Manchester local authority has challenged religious education on the ground that to include Christianity might be offensive to non-Christian minorities. Will my hon. Friend confirm that there is a legal commitment to provide religious education and the opportunity for a daily act of worship in all state schools, and does he agree that those who wish to be exempted should be, but that the basis of our religious education should remain Christian?

I am happy to confirm that the legal requirements of the Education Act 1944 are as my hon. Friend has said. There are detailed requirements on the local education authority with regard to worship and religious education. No changes in religious instruction can take place without convening a conference of Churches and other interests, as laid down in the 1944 Act. My hon. Friend is correct in his understanding of the legal position.

How, in the monitoring of religious education in schools, has the Minister changed the balance of the historic share of places for religious education in colleges of education, in the light of the proposed closure of the De La Salle teacher training college in my constituency?

The hon. Gentleman's question does not lie within my responsibility. The responsibility for religious worship and instruction in schools lies with the local education authority. Her Majesty's inspectorate has certain responsibilities in that regard.

While the legal requirements are as my hon. Friend has explained, is not the truth of the matter simply that there are not enough teachers qualified to teach religious education? What is my hon. Friend doing to improve the supply of such teachers?

I am concerned that there should be an adequate supply of teachers of religous education within the total number being trained. In the restructuring of initial training last year we gave guidance on the balance of places for secondary training between subjects, which involved an increase in the proportion of places devoted to religious education. This will go some way to meet my hon. Friend's fear.

Will the Minister confirm that there is a greater adherence to religious education of one kind or another in Northern Ireland than in Great Britain?

I should ask the hon. Gentleman for his views on Marxism rather than on Christianity.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make it his policy to lay before Parliament an annual statement of pupil-teacher ratios in maintained primary and secondary schools.

Summary figures for these ratios have long been included in the report on education and science presented annually to Parliament. More detailed information is given in the Department's statistical bulletins.

Will the Minister accept that the proposed rate-capping legislation is likely to have a substantial effect on pupil-teacher ratios? Will he ensure that the figures are published within a few months after the passing of the rate-capping legislation so that we can see the effects on pupil-teacher ratios?

I note what the hon. Gentleman has said. Staffing provision is the responsibility of local education authorities. It is for them to decide the number of teachers to deploy in their local areas. It is a matter for them and is clearly known as such.

If we are to provide more teachers in the education service, does my hon. Friend agree that they, too, have a responsibility when their organisations seek wage and salary increases to keep those increases at a moderate level, so that more resources can be spent on real forms of education, instead of on wages and salaries?

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. If costs are contained, with the cash that remains much more can be done in other essential areas.

Will the Minister answer the question that was put to him by the hon. Member for Cambridgeshire, North-East (Mr. Freud)? If, under the Bill that was published today, local education authorities are prevented from increasing their rates, what effect will that have on teacher-pupil ratios?

I cannot speculate on that. Local education authorities are responsible for the management of their cash flows and resources. How they behave is entirely a matter for them.

Is the Minister aware that the real education picture, as shown in the HMI report, is one of shortages of teachers, inadequate curriculums, not enough books and materials, and an increasingly urgent need for repairs to school buildings? Does he agree, as the local education authorities told the Secretary of State, that the situation will only be made worse by the level of RSG settlement for 1984–85 and by the Bill published today to take away the ability of LEAs to charge rates as they think fit? How will the Government Actuary's report, which is published today, on the increase in teacher pension contributions affect the financial position of LEAs?

I am happy to tell the hon. Gentleman and the House that pupil-techer ratios are at their best level ever. That is a matter of pride, and we expect the trend to continue into the coming year. I am happy to give the House that information. It is good news which should be welcomed in a robust fashion.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he is satisfied that public sector higher education can attract lecturers of appropriate quality in sufficient numbers against competition from the universities.

Yes, Sir. I am not aware of any significant recruitment difficulties at present.

In considering the future funding and staffing of higher education in the public sector, will my hon. Friend take careful note of the views of the Association of Polytechnic Teachers, a union which is concerned with the interests of teachers in polytechnics as well as with maintaining academic excellence in those institutions?

My right hon. Friend and I entertain representations from many bodies on many subjects, the APT among them, and we are always happy to receive them.

Is it not a fact that there is often competition between the two? Has the Minister noticed in Northern Ireland, for example, where the new University of Ulster did not manage to get its intake of students, that as a result of the Select Committee going there and discussing the matter with them there is now a fusion between the Ulster polytechnic and the new University of Northern Ireland? Is that not a harbinger for the future, when the two should be wedded together? Is it not something about which we should all think deeply in the interests of higher education?

In fluid times a number of different proposals are put to the Government, including proposals for polyversities, and clearly the Government will entertain each on its merits.

The answer was too brief.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will publish guidelines to be used when closures of village schools are proposed.

My right hon. Friend sees no need to change the present procedures. Proposals to close village schools, like proposals for all schools, are decided on their merits, having regard to all the relevant factors involved.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the deep concern about the closure of village schools? Does he think that publishing guidelines about the size of schools, distances of alternative schools, travelling conditions and so on would be helpful in reassuring the public?

We have made such details known from time to time, in particular in a recent Adjournment debate, of which I shall send my hon. Friend a copy. There may be good and special reasons for keeping a small school open. When that is so, my right hon. Friend decides accordingly. When such reasons do not exist, it is not sensible to devote scarce education resources to keeping such places in use because that diverts resources from better uses, perhaps for a school in another village.

Is the Minister aware that in my area the county council, district councils, parish councils, Members of Parliament and the villages concerned do not want to close schools? Why is the Minister receiving applications to close them?

Applications are made on the ground that existing financial resources can be better used elsewhere. I am always ready to see any hon. Member with a deputation relating to a section 12 proposal, including the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr. Skinner).

Can my hon. Friend confirm that when a local education authority is considering closing a small village school it is vital that it explains carefully whether it is closing that school for educational or for financial reasons, and that it does not confuse the two?

I agree that it is incumbent upon local education authorities to give as much information as possible about why it is proposed to close a school.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what additional number of families is expected to be deemed to be paying parental contributions for higher education in 1984–85 over 1983–84, allowing for an average increase of incomes in line with Government forecasts.

The adjustment of the parental contribution scale in line with the average increase in earnings should ensure that there will be no significant overall increase in the number of families assessed for a contribution in 1984–85, although there will he some additional families simply because of higher student numbers.

Can my hon. Friend please give the House the date by which the party of the family will do away with this pernicious tax on families?

I am aware of the many arguments that can be advanced for the abolition of the parental contribution system, but it is estimated that the cost of abolishing the system in 1984–85 would be about £250 million and resources are simply not available for that at present.

I thank my hon. Friend for making the scale of contributions rather more equitable. Is he aware that I, like him in happier times, regret the parental contribution principle, and particularly regret the fact that over the next three years an additional £90 million will be taken from the parents of students? Will he at least consider the possibility of moving the beginning rate from £9,700 to a higher level of income, perhaps £12,000?

Now that we have announced the scales for next year, my hon. Friend's suggestion must be for another year. Of course, we keep the matter permanently under review.

Does the Minister agree that until his announcement this autumn about student grants there was almost a political consensus that we should treat students as independent? The only problem was how soon we could do that. Is he aware that it seems that the Government have reversed that policy and are saying that students from 18 to 25 should be more and more dependent on their parents? Is that not regrettable?

The Government needed to find savings within the education budget. It was felt that this was the way least damaging to higher education provision.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what recent representations he has received concerning the provision of free school transport.

Representations are regularly received from hon. Members and parents about free school transport. These typically take the form of complaints that a local education authority has withdrawn free transport, or does not provide it, in particular cases. In addition, a number of hon. Members, local authorities and parents have argued that the Government should seek to change the law.

Does my hon. Friend recall the representations that I made on behalf of my constituents in Theydon Bois, who resent the fact that pupils just outside a 3-mile limit do not have free transport while those inside the limit do? Despite the early difficulties, will he consider recommending to local education authorities a small flat-rate scheme, or something similar?

We are always prepared to consider any suggestion. The House will recall that in 1979 we attempted to make a change in the 1944 Act to allow local education authorities to introduce a charge for pupils, while enabling them to provide transport more generously. That move was defeated in the House of Lords and we have no plans to make further changes.

Does the Minister realise that in areas such as south Yorkshire the passenger transport service is able to provide for hundreds of school children a 2p fare to school whether they live within 3 miles of, or more than 3 miles from, a particular school? Does he recognise the threat which the service faces because of the policies of some of his hon. Friends?

The House will be aware of the implications for jobs of such subsidies. Local education authorities have the right to decide how they provide transport and under what conditions. We do not intend to deviate from that.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he next plans to meet local education authority representatives to discuss the future role of colleges of further education in the youth training scheme; and if he will make a statement.

I have no immediate plans to do so but the Department has regular opportunities to discuss the youth training scheme with representatives of local education authorities.

Before the next scheme begins in September next year, will my right hon. Friend have a close look at the content of the courses offered at colleges of further education in relation to the youth training scheme? If it seems likely that many young people, when they have completed youth training, will want to go back to some form of further education, will the Government have a close look and see what form of financial support might be granted to such students?

Yes, but I think my hon. Friend is aware that there is already a 21-hour rule which enables those seeking employment to do some study while they are seeking jobs.

Does the Secretary of State agree with his hon. Friend's question on the need for youngsters, on completing a youth training scheme course, to consider going back to further education, as only 38 per cent. of those completing the schemes get jobs? As the schemes are not designed to create jobs that is the only option, other than going back on the dole.

The hon. Gentleman may have observed that there appears to be an increase—I do not want to exaggerate; a modest increase—in the number of jobs available to people of that age.

Does the Secretary of State accept that colleges of further education are facing bankruptcy because of the low take-up of the youth training schemes? Will he introduce legislation to ensure their future?

The position of different colleges of further education in relation to youth training schemes varies very much, but the terms on which they are paid for their provision of youth training will be open to renegotiation in the new year.

Will the Secretary of State discuss with the local education authorities when he meets them the problem of recognising a year on YTS as a qualification for going on to further education in colleges of higher education, as this is disturbing many people? Is he aware that it is not clear whether a year on YTS is a qualification to pursue anything afterwards?

I do not see that the scheme can conceivably provide in itself a qualification for higher education, but there are many courses of further education which are open to those leaving YTS, as for others, with financial conditions which vary according to the circumstances of the individual.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on the findings of the recent report published by Youthaid about students who receive unemployment benefit.

The report gives a useful indication of use of the 21-hour rule in further education colleges and schools and proposes ways of improving access to education for the unemployed. I shall shortly be discussing these recommendations with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Services.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the 21-hour provision will be extremely useful for young people coming off the YTS? What is his Department doing to persuade those colleges which do not offer the 21-hour scheme to do so?

I agree with my hon. Friend. It will be a useful option for those concerned while seeking jobs, particularly as the qualification of three months' unemployment has been removed by the DHSS. As for the second part of my hon. Friend's question, I shall consider what ways are open to us.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this Christmas 25 per cent. of teenagers will he on the dole and that many of them would very much like to pursue courses of education rather than merely signing on to the dole queue? Will he admit that the interface between availability of work, eligibility for benefit and the ability to qualify for the youth training scheme is in a complete mess and is understood by neither DHSS managers nor local education authorities? The result is that many young men and women who would like to pursue education while waiting for a job are not able to do so.

The hon. Gentleman carefully limited his remarks to teenagers and avoided accepting that, thanks to the work of the MSC and employers, there are very few 16-year-olds, as a proportion of that vintage, on the dole. The 21-hour rule is an extremely useful option for those who wish to undertake some part-time study while awaiting employment.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will introduce legislation on the lines suggested by the Thompson report on youth and community services.

This recommendation is under consideration and the Government's decision will be announced as soon as possible.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that reply. Will he be slightly more specific about the date of the announcement? It is over 20 years since people first started talking about a statutory basis for the youth service and there has been no progress since then.

As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said in a written answer on 1 November, we are currently examining relevant material in the recently completed report on the National Youth Bureau, which has a bearing on, for example, the recommendation in the review group's report on the youth service for a national advisory council. My hope and expectation is that our response to the review group's recommendations in total will be announced well before Easter.

Is the Minister aware that youth clubs throughout the United Kingdom operate in difficult financial circumstances, suffer great hardship and have to survive from week to week? Does he accept that he has a duty to the country and to young people nationally to ensure that enough moneys are made available to secure the future of the clubs, especially as they ensure that many young people are taken off the streets, where they could engage in anti-social activities?

I am happy to pay tribute to the youth service throughout the country. Total expenditure on the youth service amounted to about £93 million in 1981–82. The Government's plans for local authority expenditure in 1984–85 should enable the great majority of local education authorities in aggregate to maintain the 1981–82 level of provision provided that costs, especially pay, are contained and resources are managed effectively.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on future Government policy for adult and continuing education.

In consultation with his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales, my right hon. Friend has carefully considered how future developments in this important field should be promoted. He has decided not to set up a national development council. Discussions are taking place with the National Institute of Adult Continuing Education and the local authority associations about the role that the institute might play in these circumstances.

In view of the Government's pathetic record on adult and continuing education, is not the Minister's decision not to set up a development council for continuing education a clear sign that the Government have no interest in his important area? Does he agree that without such a council adult and continuing education will become virtually meaningless in the future?

We see no prospect of funds being available to support a national development council on the scale envisaged by ACACE in the foreseeable future. We would not have been convinced of the case for channelling all central development funds into a single body even in a more favourable financial climate, bearing in mind the existence of other bodies which have a valuable contribution to make in this area and the proven success of single-purpose initiatives using existing or specially created agencies such as PICKUP and ALBSU.

Will my hon. Friend confirm the great value of adult education in furthering people's careers by giving them retraining? Is he aware that special courses give self-dignity to the unemployed while other courses give meaning to life for the elderly and others in the community? Will he do all that he can to restore adult education to the forefront of our education system?

Historians of the adult education movement paid tribute to the role of Baliol college, Oxford, at the turn of the century, in setting adult education on its way. As a loyal son of that house, I am delighted to be as supportive 80 years later.

In order to help a small and specialised area of adult education, could the Secretary of State set up a working party with the Department of Health and Social Security to consider the question of lip-reading classes for the deaf? Because of the demographic situation there is an increasing demand for that service, but because of the public expenditure cuts it is difficult to meet it.

I will, of course, bear the hon. Gentleman's suggestion in mind and consult my colleagues in the other Department.

Is the Minister aware that the tremendous amount of unemployment means that the Minister's Department has a duty to make a response, particularly since many hon. Members feel that the Department opted out of the youth training scheme? Adult unemployment gives us an opportunity to give special weight to the adult education movement, but the Department is failing completely.

We are actively considering possible ways and means of encouraging the development of suitable provision to meet the education needs of unemployed adults. I cannot say more at present. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of a statement on adult training issued by the Manpower Services Commission last month, which fully acknowledged the need for constructive partnership and co-operation between the MSC and the education service. Useful discussions have taken place between officials of the Department and of the MSC on issues of common concern.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many proposals under section 15 of the Education Act 1980 he has received; how many he has approved; and how many he has rejected.

Since the 1980 Act came into effect, 103 section 15 proposals have been published but five were subsequently withdrawn by the proposers. My right hon. Friend and his predecessor have approved 33 and rejected four such proposals, and approved part and rejected part of one further proposal. In the absence of any statutory objections, local education authorities have determined to implement a further 33 such proposals. Twenty-seven section 15 proposals are still current.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that answer. However, is he aware that some education authorities are artificially reducing the intake of some popular schools, thus acting against parental preference? Will he take steps to prevent such artificial reductions, as it is contrary to the spirit of the 1980 Act to limit the intake of popular schools below their physical capacity?

My hon. Friend is quite right. Some local education authorities are abusing the spirit of section 15 of the Act. I am concerned about that abuse, and I can assure the House that the matter is under review.

The record of the Tory Government since 1979 in closing down a quarter of the grammar schools is now nearly as good as the record of the Prime Minister, when the right hon. Lady was Secretary of State. She closed down a third of all the grammar schools. Why cannot the Government admit that most parents — including Conservative parents in Richmond and Solihull — reject the 11-plus, reject selection, and reject grammar schools and secondary moderns?

The hon. Gentleman is making a bogus point and attempting to cover up the difference between the Government and the Opposition, which is that we would allow local education authorities the right to decide the nature and variety of secondary education organisation in their communities. In 1976 the Labour Government took away that right, with the support of the Liberal party.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he is yet in a position to make an announcement about his proposals regarding the future of the system of reimbursing students' travel costs.

No, Sir.

If, at some future date, the Minister makes a proposal to the House about changing the scheme will he ensure that there is no oversimplification for administrative purposes which may be expensive for the student? Usually, whenever a change is made to any scheme, it is the recipients who suffer.

Details of new travel arrangements will be announced as soon as they have been settled after consultation with the National Union of Students. Any change that achieves a worthwhile simplification of the present arrangements will inevitably involve an element of rough justice.

Will not many students be alarmed by those proposals? Does the Minister agree that that "rough justice" could well penalise those students who live at home and travel considerable distances to colleges and universities?

The hon. Gentleman's point will be taken into account by the Government in formulating their arrangements.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how much it would cost to provide an allowance for every person in post compulsory non-advanced education in schools and colleges at the rate of £30 per term-time week.

About £700 million for England and Wales, assuming that the allowance was restricted to 16 to 19-year-olds in full-time education and there were savings on child benefit.

Does the Secretary of State agree that income support for teenagers is completely chaotic and that there should be some rationalisation so that people can remain at school and colleges to benefit from education rather than be forced to go through devices such as the 21-hour rule, which often gives income support but not the best education benefits?

I am sure that there could be some tidying up. but it would involve a great deal of extra money. There is no evidence that young people are leaving school to join the YTS solely because there is no allowance for staying on at school.

Would it not help if there could be considerable flexibility on the 21-hour rule in relation to certain technical and accredited courses?

The 21-hour rule is largely the province of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services. The Government are anxious that the 21-hour rule should not become a substitute for a student support service. I shall discuss my hon. Friend's point with my right hon. Friend.

Does not the system compel young people who want to stay at school—many of whom show their sincerity by staying, in face of other inducements — to leave school? Was not the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Mr. Bennett) an attempt to obtain enough money to allow our young people to continue at school as long as they wish and educate them to our greater benefit?

I repeat that there is no evidence that the youth training allowance, as opposed to the youth training scheme, has been a factor in moving young people from school to the youth training scheme.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many degree course places at universities and polytechnics were available in 1982–83; what this represents as a percentage of the relevant age group of young people; how this compares with previous years; and what is the expected figure for 1989–90.

It is 137,000 or about 11·3 per cent. of the age group. About 13·4 per cent. of the age group were involved in higher education of all kinds in 1982–83, the highest level since 1975. Demand for higher education is projected to come from 13·8 to 14·8 per cent. of the age group by 1989–90.

Does that not mean that the Government have provided more places at degree level in polytechnics and universities, and that those polytechnics and universities have a responsibility to provide relevant courses with a vocational element for those students?

Last year there were 51,000 more full-time home students in higher education than in 1979. I dare say that the figure will have risen further when we have this year's intake figures. In answer to the second part of my hon. Friend's question, there is a shift towards vocational subjects in universities and polytechnics in the way that he mentioned.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many pupils there were in maintained secondary schools in 1982–83; what was the figure for 1979–80; and what is the expected figure for 1986–87.

There were 3·74 million pupils in maintained secondary schools in England in January 1983, and 3·87 million pupils in January 1980. The projected number of pupils in maintained secondary schools in England is 3·3 million in 1986–87.

I thank my hon. Friend for that informative answer. Does he agree that, while it is regrettable that any secondary school has to close, there comes a point when the numbers in a secondary school fall below a certain level when it is not viable to provide a broad curriculum? Does he further agree that it is to the benefit of future pupils to be educated in a school large enough to provide the wide range of facilities that our children's education needs?

That point is continuously before us when we decide a section 12 proposal. The House must accept that there are limits to what the country can afford to spend on education. What we spend must be spent constructively and not wasted on keeping open empty classrooms and buildings.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on the procedure for dismissing teachers.

Procedures for the dismissal of teachers are a matter for local education authorities and other employers. They should be used whenever it is necessary in the best interests of pupils.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that we shall improve the standards of education in schools only if it is easier for authorities to dismiss that minority of teachers who are inefficient and incompetent?

It is possible, even though laborious, for that to be done now. I must simultaneously pay tribute to the majority of teachers who do a good job.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 20 December.

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I shall be having further meetings later today. This evening I hope to have an audience of Her Majesty the Queen.

Will my right hon. Friend find time today to endorse the line taken by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland regarding Americans' attitudes to the activities of Noraid, the fund-raising organisation in the United States, for the IRA? Does she agree that the tragic death on Saturday at the hands of the IRA terrorists of a United States citizen and the injuring of two others might bring home to the American people the fact that money given to Noraid does not go to help widows and orphans, but goes to create them?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and agree with what he says. We condemn very strongly as, indeed, does the President, money given to Noraid. It is given to those who reject democracy and pursue their ends by violence and the death and destruction of innocent people. It has also, possibly on this occasion, resulted in the death of one American citizen and the injury of others as well as those of other nationalities.

As well as endorsing the views expressed on American television yesterday by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, I am sure that the whole House will want to commend the helpful and forthright response of Dr. Garrett FitzGerald and, indeed, the positive statements of the American ambassador on Saturday's atrocity. Could the Prime Minister tell us what consideration has been given to increasing formal joint efforts between Governments to block off the flow of munitions and money to terrorists, wherever such resources come from?

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. Dr. Garrett FitzGerald was very sympathetic and sent a sympathetic message. Likewise, we were able to congratulate him on the tremendous efforts that were made in the Republic to secure the release of Mr. Tidey. I know that that resulted in the death of two of their security guards. Co-operation is very close between the Government of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland in trying to block off munitions or, if they get over, in trying to find them. Indeed, the destruction caused in the Republic of Ireland by the activities of the IRA is very damaging indeed to the Republic and we therefore cooperate on these matters to the maximum extent. I also join the right hon. Gentleman in being very grateful for what the American ambassador said when he came to see me last evening.

May I turn my right hon. Friend's attention to another important question and ask if she will find time today to study the remarks of Judge Gibbens in the High Court on Friday and yesterday in which he expressed sympathy for a man who had unlawful intercourse with a 7-year-old girl and described it as an accident. Does she agree with me, as the mother of a 7-year-old girl, that the judge's remarks were disgraceful?

I have great sympathy with my hon. Friend. The Government regard with very great seriousness all sexual offences against children, and I cannot emphasise that too strongly. As my hon. Friend will know, the Lord Chancellor has called for a transcript of the proceedings so that he may first find the facts, which I believe is the proper course to take.

Is the Prime Minister aware that millions of her fellow citizens will, this Christmas, be contemplating the new year with some dread in view of her overruling of the Secretary of State for Energy on electricity prices. coupled with the Government's cuts in housing benefit? Does she begin to understand their anxieties?

My right hon. Friend answered questions very forcefully yesterday and pointed out that, as electricity prices had been frozen for two years, the possibility being considered might mean an increase of 2 per cent. over what would turn out to be the course of two years, whereas the Government whom the right hon. Gentleman supported, and whose life that support extended, had an increase in electricity prices of 2 per cent. every six weeks.

Bearing in mind that 490 people were convicted last year of sexual assaults on children, does my right hon. Friend agree that there is growing public concern at the leniency of sentences passed on such attackers, such as the one passed yesterday on the attacker of a 7-year-old child?

Within the statutory limits for sentencing that are laid down—and the statutory limits usually allow for very severe sentences — the precise sentence that is given is a matter for the judge. However, as my hon. Friend will be aware, the Government intend to introduce legislation that would subject a sentence alleged to have been too lenient to the scrutiny of the Court of Appeal. While that court could not then overrule that particular sentence, what it said might be a guide for future sentences.

Will the Prime Minister dampen down the hysteria in this country about Irish-American support for violence in Northern Ireland by recognising that the vast majority of Irish-Americans, of whom there are 44 million, do not support violence in Northern Ireland and that opposition to it is forcefully, strongly and constructively expressed by their political leaders, such as Speaker O'Neill, Senator Kennedy and Senator Moynihan?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the overwhelming majority of the American people, including those in the Government and in prominent positions—indeed, I think all in the Government and in prominent positions—and the Irish, condemn violence as a means of pursuing political ends. Violence is the negation of democracy and we pursue democracy. They have the chance of pursuing these things through the ballot box. We hope that one day they will take that course and reject the path of violence.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for Tuesday 20 December.

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

In the light of the recent crash of the first ground-based cruise missile to be tested operationally. what new steps do the Government propose to take to secure at least equal control of these very unreliable weapons?

The cruise missiles are not yet fully operational and will not be fully operational until the end of December, because that is the time appointed by the agreement with NATO. With regard to the control of these missiles, that is governed by agreements that have been satisfactory to all previous Prime Ministers, including the one whom the hon. Gentleman's party supported when it was able to do so.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied with the liaison between the Law Officers and the Minister with responsibility for consumer protection on the House Buyers Bill?

I am sure that I am well served by the Minister with responsibility for consumer protection and by the Law Officers. I had hoped to be asked about that matter last Thursday, but unfortunately the questions that one expects and hopes for do not always come. Perhaps I might make it perfectly clear by saying now what I would have said then—it might have been better had I been asked the question then. but that is how it goes—that the Government have decided to introduce a Bill to enable solicitors employed by institutions such as building societies and banks also to convey houses. That goes for all kinds of conveyancing, not just properties that are on registered land.

asked the Prime Minister if she will list her official engagements for 20 December.

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Can my right hon. Friend assure the House that the Government's rate-capping policies have proved an enormous success in Scotland in practice? Does she agree that they have brought widespread relief to people, such as my constituents, who are living under the yoke of Marxist councils? Does she further agree that it is high time that these benefits were brought to ratepayers in England and Wales as a whole?

I agree with my hon. Friend. Many ratepayers have been grateful for the action of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland, which he can take under Scottish law, especially the many businesses for whom rates are the largest tax. We shall be pleased, and many industries and most ratepayers will be delighted, when the rate-capping legislation is passed for England and Wales.

Is the Prime Minister aware of the impending industrial catastrophe and human tragedy in the west of Scotland with the possible closure of the Scott Lithgow yard? Will she hold negotiations to establish whether the contract can be renegotiated, otherwise the west of Scotland will suffer a tremendous disaster? Bearing in mind the money spent on nuclear weapons, it would be only a drop in the ocean to save those jobs.

There will be a statement about the contract at Scott Lithgow after Question Time. The right hon. Gentleman is well aware that competition for both ships and oil rigs is very great indeed. Employment can be provided only by keeping customers, which means building ships or oil rigs to budget and on time. I very much regret to say that the record of that yard is abysmal. The yard has two other orders—a ship for the Ministry of Defence and another oil rig. British Shipbuilders will be considering how best to complete those orders in the light of the difficulties that it may face in any negotiations about the original rig.

Will the Prime Minister not listen to the eccentric and unrepresentative views of the hon. Member for Stirling (Mr. Forsyth) on the Government's Scottish legislation on rates? Does she recognise that, whatever criticisms there may be of spendthrift Labour authorities, there is no support whatever for the Government's interference with local democracy and the removal of all decision-making from local government?

Local democracy has those powers that are conferred upon it by Parliament. Bearing in mind that the Government have the final responsibility for the level of public expenditure, for many years there was a convention that local authorities in general followed the wishes of Government about the total level of expenditure locally. That convention has broken down and differences have to be introduced. Many ratepayers, indeed I believe the overwhelming majority, will be very pleased with the rate-capping legislation because they believe that rates are far too high. There would have been no increase in rates this year if the 18 Labour over-spenders had spent to target instead of above it.

asked the Prime Minister is she will list her official engagements for 20 December.

I refer my hon. Friend to the reply that I gave some moments ago.

Has not Britain kept to the NATO agreement to increase defence expenditure by 3 per cent. a year in real terms? Does that not mean that we are spending more than any other NATO country, except the United States? As no other European ally has stuck to the NATO targets, does my right hon. Friend think that we are now bearing too heavy a share of the burden, especially as the defence of the Falklands is not included in the defence budget for that purpose?

We are committed to increasing NATO expenditure by 3 per cent. per annum to the year 1985–86. We are not committed beyond that, and we are considering what level of expenditure we shall have beyond that date. I agree that we are spending a higher percentage of GDP than our allies in NATO, but the distribution of expenditure over the years has been different. Some of those who are not reaching the 3 per cent. increase in expenditure spent a great deal more during the years before that commitment was made, and I refer especially to the Federal Republic of Germany.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Although I did not attempt to catch your eye during Prime Minister's Question Time, and while I accept that you have a reaponsibility to defend and look after the interests of minority parties, may I ask you to consider whether you were right, when calling six Members from the Opposition Benches, to call five from minority parties and only one from the Labour party?

The hon. Gentleman has correctly stated that it is my duty and responsibility to protect the rights of minorities, and to do so over the general pattern of Question Time throughout the month—

What about us?

Order. The hon. Gentleman has been called three times. I bear my duties very much in mind.