asked the Secretary of State for Wales what proposals he has to introduce a scheme that funds projects for children under five years of age similar to that existing in England; and if he will make a statement.

We have been considering what further steps might be taken to help with the under-fives in Wales. We shall shortly be consulting representatives from relevant statutory authorities and voluntary organisations about the precise range of need and the best means of meeting it.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that reply, but is he aware of the complaints from the voluntary societies and, in particular, from the Children's Society to the effect that the absence of such a scheme in Wales is impeding their work especially among one-parent families? Will he discuss with the Secretary of State for Social Services the speedy implementation of that scheme in Wales?

We are certainly aware of the desire that has been expressed by hon. Members, among others, for such a scheme. However, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will bear in mind that we do not always slavishly follow in the wake of England. Indeed, neither do the Scots nor the Northern Irish. We have our own priorities. Nevertheless, we shall be consulting many of the bodies involved with small children.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State has just said that the Welsh Office has its own priorities, but is he aware that the joint initiative on the under-fives should be a priority for every territorial Department in Britain, given that this is the area in which young children are most clearly open to deprivation? Will the Minister now ensure that Wales follows the lead given progressively by England?

By "our own priorities" I was, of course, referring to our mental handicap intitiative and to that on perinatal mortality, for example. However, the further consultations that we are undertaking will give us a guide as to the resources required for this initiative. I am happy to say that up to £100,000 a year in the next three years can be made available, if necessary.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what approaches he has received from Clwyd area health authority regarding the joint financing of a social service complex for the elderly at Colwyn bay; and what reply he has made.

I announced last month Welsh Office allocations of over £1·1 million for jointly financed and NHS mental health developments in 1984–85. These will support schemes to benefit mentally ill, mentally handicapped and elderly people throughout Wales. The allocation of £180,000 to the Clwyd health authority included an offer of support for the community development for elderly people in Colwyn bay to which my hon. Friend referred.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that reply. Is he aware of the risk that the project might fall down because of the inability of the area health authority to match the contribution that is required? Will my hon. Friend use his good offices to ensure that the scheme comes to fruition?

Of course, it is up to the health authority to match our offer in such a scheme. However, I understand that the health authority views the Colwyn bay project favourably.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what further plans he has to help dairy farmers in Wales; and if he will make a statement.

The Welsh Office, through the resources of the Agriculture Development and Advisory Service in Wales, will do everything possible to help producers reach decisions on how best to conduct their business during this difficult period of adjustment. All milk producers have already been sent a copy of a note prepared by ADAS which offers preliminary advice on coping with the quota.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that he made a political blunder and neglected his duties in not going to Brussels to look after the interests of Welsh dairy farmers? Will he now consider paying compensation to those who, through Government proposals, have lost their business?

I do not accept that. I am certain that it is sensible for negotiations with 10 countries in Europe to be conducted on behalf of Britain by one Minister who has fully considered the various interests of different parts of the United Kingdom in the detailed discussions that take place at every stage of our consideration of the issues.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that achieving, for instance, the doubling of the suckler cow premium, the retention against all odds of the beef variable premium and the extension of the less-favoured area definition from 57 to 80 per cent. of Welsh farmland is good news for Welsh livestock farmers?

That is correct. We succeeded in the European negotiations in achieving many of the most important objectives which were spelt out to us by the farmers' unions. Not least, we avoided the revaluation of the green pound.

What defence does the Minister have for the agreement which is driving farmers to pour milk down the drain rather than take it to the creameries so that they do not have to face such a substantial financial debacle?

The defence is that at present surpluses in Europe are costing European taxpayers about £3 billion. The policy of the hon. Gentleman's party is drastically to reduce expenditure on the CAP. I cannot take his protests seriously when action is being taken to reform the CAP and reduce expenditure on what members of his party have previously described as an obscenity.

Were not many farmers advised professionally to produce more milk in the last two or three years? Is it not a travesty that between 30,000 and 40,000 cows may have to be slaughtered to meet the terms of the policy? Does the Secretary of State intend to help farmers in Wales by using article 4 of the agreement made on 31 March, which provides for a one-off grant, or an annual grant to assist farmers to change from producing milk?

Successive Ministers of Agriculture have argued for a reform of the arrangements for milk support in the Community. In the absence of an agreement on that, in recent years it would have been extraordinary for British Ministers to tell farmers that they should not take full advantage of the arrangements that apply to the rest of Europe. If we had done that we should have started to cut back from a much lower base and our relative position and self-sufficiency would have been much less satisfactory than it is. I do not apologise for encouraging farmers to take advantage of the European arrangements. We have now reached an agreement on a measure to cut surpluses. I have nothing to announce at present on the line suggested.

Will the right hon. Gentleman acknowledge that the Government's craven efforts have put many hundreds of Welsh dairy farmers at risk of bankruptcy or serious hardship? Will he concede that the Government have betrayed the Welsh dairy farmers in order to advance towards something like an EEC budget? Does he agree that he has put the whole of the Welsh rural economy at risk?

Many individual farmers will face real difficulties, but I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman, of all people, is in a strong position to lecture the House on the subject, since his Front Bench argues that we have done insufficient to cut expenditure on the CAP.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he has now received copies of the reports on housing in the Principality by the Association of Directors of Housing and the housing associations; and what response he intends to make.

I received a copy of the report some days after it was made available to HTV and the press. The issues it raised have been discussed in the House on many occasions and I see no need for any formal response.

What a dismissive way to try to get rid of reports which clearly show the universal condemnation of Welsh Office policies by those in the front line. I refer not only to the two reports about which I asked, but to the leaked Welsh Office advisory report. Why did the Welsh Office, in response to the universal call for a housing strategy for the Principality, say that it was naive for such a strategy to be demanded? Was the use of the word "naive" approved? If it was, does that not show complete complacency about the magnitude of housing problems in Wales?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I am not complacent. I am fully aware of housing problems in Wales. The report is entitled "Report on the capital investment in housing in Wales". I find it inadequate on that score. It grossly understates what is being spent on housing. It quotes authorities' capital expenditure on a net basis and omits the substantial input from capital receipts in recent years. The report also ignores the valuable contribution being made by the Housing Corporation and fails to recognise the significance of urban development grant. The authors are clearly not fully aware of what capital investment there is in housing in Wales.

Does my hon. Friend agree that in the years 1980–81 and 1981–82 there was considerable underspending of the capital uptake by local housing authorities, amounting to something over £80 million in the two years?

My hon. Friend is right. In 1981–82 we provided for expenditure of some £31 per head on housing in Wales compared with £32 per head in England, but in Wales £22 per head was spent as opposed to £32 per head in England—about 50 per cent. more.

Will the Minister tell the House whether he intends to publish "The production of a housing plan for Wales", the document produced by the housing management advisory panel for Wales in September last, which he has kept hidden until now and which is a devastating indictment of the Government's failure to come to grips with the problem? Will he now produce a plan and set up a working party as recommended in the document?

There is nothing secret about the document to which the hon. Gentleman refers. In fact, I discussed it with the Welsh housing consultative committee on 2 December last year. Its main thrust was to get the Welsh Office to fund a research programme costing some £83,000 upon which a housing plan for Wales might be based. I did not believe that the research was necessary—we have all the facts—nor do I think that the local authorities would agree a plan because of their widely differing circumstances, requirements and policy objectives. If the local authorities feel differently, of course they are welcome to fund the research which, as I say, is estimated to cost £83,000.

Will my hon. Friend confirm that private house building starts in Wales are up some 40 per cent. since 1981? Does that not show that the Government's policies are having an effect on Welsh housing, contrary to what we hear from the Opposition?

Of course, my hon. Friend is right as regards the private sector. It is curious that in this exchange we have not, as yet, mentioned the Government's strategy on the rehabilitation of houses in Wales. The extent of that rehabilitation is illustrated by the fact that last year alone some £102 million was spent on grants compared with only £58 million over the Labour Administration's last five years. That is our strategy for Wales.

With thousands of homeless Welsh people and tens of thousands of construction workers in Wales on the dole, why did the Minister decide to cut local authority building allocation by some 20 per cent.? Is it not foolish and cruel to limit the capability of housing associations this year to about only one sixth of what they could do? Is he not that aware that this policy and that of his Department for housing in Wales is a national disgrace?

There is a considerable amount of housing activity in Wales. I have already stressed that the Government's emphasis is on the rehabilitation of older properties. That has been demanded time and again by Opposition Members. I am delighted to say that between April 1982 and December 1983 we have had 121,000 applications for improvement grants, of which 29,000 have been completed and 28,000 have been approved. By my calculation we are about half way towards achieving what we require.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will review health policy in Wales to ensure that local community hospitals are not adversely affected by the centralisation of financial resources into the district general hospitals.

Health policy is always kept under review, but it is not our policy to centralise resources into the district general hospitals.

Will the Minister accept that that is happening, whatever the policy may be? Is he aware that throughout Wales we are hearing the same complaint? For example, is he aware that in Aberdare last week I was told that the general hospital was losing facilities to Prince Charles' hospital in Merthyr, and that last weekend in Caernarfon a similar complaint was made to me about the Eryri hospital losing X-ray facilities to the new district general hospital at Bangor? If the Minister is not aware of these problems, it is high time that he opened his eyes and did something about them.

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman does not wish to discourage us from going ahead with the tremendously impressive new district general hospitals that we are building throughout Wales, because he knows that they are the focal point of the provision of specialised and acute services. Our district general hospitals are intended to consolidate, and provide more efficiently, those services that may have been found previously in smaller hospitals. It is a matter for the health authority to consider whether the smaller hospitals can be put to an alternative use or should be disposed of.

My hon. Friend will be aware that the Clwyd area health authority has now agreed to keep open Chatsworth house hospital, Prestatyn, with 12 GP general medical beds. When this proposal comes before my hon. Friend, may I ask him to give serious consideration to the counter-proposals of the hospital's action committee, which would add GP maternity beds, an ante-natal clinic and combined district nurse and midwifery facility—proposals that make far more economic and practical sense than those of the health authority?

My right hon. Friend will give careful consideration to any representations that are made to him on this issue.

May we be reassured that the specialty of geriatrics will be continued at our district general hospitals and will not be relegated into the shadows of our community hospitals?

As the hon. Gentleman, of all people, should know, we are most concerned with the elderly, just as we are concerned with the mentally ill and mentally handicapped. We have always urged health authorities and local authorities to give them their close attention.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how much European regional development fund aid committed to Wales to date has been devoted to (a) infrastructural projects and (b) industrial projects.

The figures are £140·8 million and £68·8 million respectively under the quota section of the fund. In addition, about £10·5 million in total has been committed to a programme of special measures to improve infrastructure and assistance to small firms in steel areas under the non-quota section of the fund.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that these figures demonstrate the value of the ERDF in terms of jobs and employment in Wales? Will he comment on the recent policy document of Plaid Cymru, which suggested that the ERDF had no value to Wales?

I agree about the importance of the grants, and the total is even more impressive when one considers the £1,216 million in identifiable grants and loans from all European Community sources. I read the Plaid Cymru policy document and found it naive and astonishing in its proposals. I wondered whether the people employed, for example, at the Dinorwic power station scheme entirely dismissed the valuable aid that that scheme received from the Community.

If the right hon. Gentleman truly believes in excellent regional infrastructure, why does he not increase the budget of the Welsh Development Agency and particularly of the derelict land sector? If he really believes in regional infrastucture, why is he so laggardly and quiet about the need urgently to start on the second crossing of the Severn? Has he anything yet to say about the feasibility study?

It is absurd to say that we are being laggardly on infrastucture, when this Government have carried out the greatest programme of infrastructure improvement ever undertaken in the Principality, including a massive road programme, which apparently Plaid Cymru in its policy document dismisses and does not want.

In view of the attacks that the Secretary of State feels, for whatever reason, that it is necessary to make this week on Plaid Cymru, will he clarify why only 1 per cent. of the money that comes from the European regional development fund for industrial development in Wales goes to Gwynedd and why the Government persist in refusing to apply the principle of additionality in respect of that money? They take in money from the European Community and subsume it into the Treasury instead of passing it on to Wales.

The fact that these substantial sums have been received enables us to spend a great deal more in Wales that we otherwise could. The local authorities who use the funds know that they reduce their borrowing requirements, which is why they welcome them. It is perhaps a pity that over the years the Gwynedd council has not come forward with more schemes of a sort that are likely to receive support. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman should address his questions to that authority.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what percentage of total capital expenditure in Wales was spent on housing at the latest available date; and how this compares with the percentage figure so spent in 1979.

Gross capital expenditure on housing in Wales in 1983–84 is estimated at about 34 per cent. of the total gross capital expenditure which lies within my right hon. Friend's responsibility. The comparable figure for 1979–80 was 31 per cent.

I again draw the Minister's attention to the chief housing officer's report. Bearing in mind that he and his colleagues are the experts on housing, does the Minister deny that total expenditure allocated to housing has dropped by two thirds in the past six years, and that even in the private sector the number of houses completed has dropped by more than 30 per cent. since 1979? What is the Welsh Office doing to arrest the appalling decline that is developing in Welsh housing?

I think that the report was referring to the private sector when it drew attention to the events of the past six years. It is right to say that there has been an upswing in private sector house building. Starts in 1983 were 40 per cent. up on those in 1981 and we hope that trend will continue. In the coming year the local authorities will have about £150 million to spend on housing, and the Housing Corporation will be able to spend a further £41·5 million. With the expenditure of the Development Board for Rural Wales on housing and urban development grant pump-priming finance, I expect public sector capital investment in housing this financial year to be close to £200 million.

Does my hon. Friend agree that Labour Members' feeble attacks on the Government's housing record come hypocritically from a party which showed such scant regard for home improvement when it formed the Government? Will he remind Labour Members yet again of their appalling record on improvement grants? Is he aware that the figures show that over five years the Labour Government spent little more than half of what this Government have spent in only one year?

My hon. Friend is right. During the five years from 1974–75 to 1978–79 the previous Labour Government spent £58 million on home improvement. That must be set against the £100 million which the present Government spent last year alone. I should remind Labour Members, too, that when the Labour Government were in office public sector house building fell by 60 per cent.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what proportion of total public expenditure in Wales on housing was allocated to housing associations in each year since 1979.

The proportions are as follows: 1979–80, 9 per cent.; 1980–81, 10 per cent.; 1981–82, 14 per cent.; 1982–83, 19 per cent.; 1983–84, 15 per cent.; 1984–85, 18 per cent.

Will the Minister confirm that the capacity of the housing association movement in Wales is about 6,000 units and that the reality is that on that level of funding the movement will be able to achieve 500 new builds and only about 1,000 rehabilitations? How does that accord with the Government's rehabilitation priorities?

The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the considerable increase in spending by housing associations through the Housing Corporation over the years that I have mentioned. He is right in saying that in the current year the associations will build about 560 new houses and rehabilitate about 1,170 units. I dare say that they could do more and wanted to do more. However, the Government are firmly committed to restraining and reducting inflation, and it is vital that we should continue with reductions in public expenditure.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the housing associations provide a useful addition to public and private housing provision? If so, why are they being starved of funds by the Government? Are the Government more interested in providing Trident missiles, which could blow us all to smithereens, or in costly ventures in the Falkland Islands?

I have just told the House that the allocation to the housing associations increased considerably during those years. The figure for 1979–80 was £20 million. This year the figure is £39·7 million. The addition of capital receipts means that the figure will increase to £41·5 million. The housing associations make a valuable contribution to the housing stock in Wales. We appreciate their contribution, because they cater for those with special housing needs.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many people are unemployed (unadjusted and inclusive of school leavers); how many were unemployed in May 1979; and by what percentage unemployment has increased since May 1979.

In April 1984 there were 169,630 unemployed claimants in Wales. In May 1979 the estimated number of claimants was 77,177—an increase of 119·8 per cent.

Against the background of those grave and distressing figures, will the Secretary of State take this opportunity to tell the people of Deeside, 8,100 of whom are out of work, why the Nissan project was not located on Deeside, notwithstanding the fine efforts of the local authorities and trade unions to bring the project to Deeside, and other campaigns that sought to bring it to Wales? Will the right hon. Gentleman tell the House that he would rather resign than see the Llanwern steelworks close? Bearing in mind that the Government are working on steel privatisation plans, is the right hon. Gentleman prepared to say which plants in Wales the Government are thinking of privatising?

I do not believe, Mr. Speaker, that you will allow me to answer all those questions.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the likeliest contribution to providing more jobs in Wales is the certainty of Britain remaining in the EEC? What contribution has the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mr. Jones) made? He was against the EEC in 1963, for it in 1967, sat on the fence in 1975, was against the EEC in 1979 and is back on the fence again in 1984.

If find it surprising that my hon. Friend can even discover where the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mr. Jones) stands on any matter. Last year was a record year for inward investment in the United Kingdom, and Wales obtained well over 20 per cent. of that investment. That occurred largely because of our membership of the European Community.

In view of the terrible figures announced by the Secretary of State, will he respond to the repeated demands of the Opposition that more money should be allocated to the Welsh Development Agency? Has he in the past month been to the Treasury to demand those resources?

No, I have not. We have had, yet again, another quarter in which there has been an all-time record allocation of Government factory space in Wales. The figures for selective financial assistance applications and resulting jobs are again at an all-time high and show that the recovery of the economy is strongly under way. I am sure the right hon. Gentleman welcomes the fact that, during the past 12 months unemployment has decreased. There are signs that the recovery is spreading far more widely through the economy.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that wild demagoguery and irresponsible statements by the NUM officials both in and visiting south Wales are likely to have a most negative effect on all the excellent efforts to bring additional employment to the area?

Industrial disputes of any kind can only damage future job prospects for the areas concerned.

Is the Secretary of State aware that unemployment in the Teifi valley between Cardigan and Lampeter has been more than 20 per cent. for the past 10 years? What plans does he have to try to solve that problem?

I am, of course, aware of the rural unemployment in that part of Wales. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have given considerable support to the Development Board for Rural Wales in its efforts, which are having a great deal of success, to bring new jobs to mid-Wales.

Will the Secretary of State put his hand on his heart and tell the House whether he has any confidence that, if present policies continue, the unprecedentedly high unemployment figures will be reduced?

I have great confidence that there will continue to be a flow of new industries with growth prospects for Wales, which is the best prospect for a reduction in unemployment. Last year there was an increase in the number of people in employment in the United Kingdom. That is an encouraging trend, as is the increased number of people employed in the service industries throughout the United Kingdom. We believe that those trends are broadly followed in Wales, although the regional breakdown is not yet available.

How will the Manpower Services Commission's proposals for the closure of some jobcentres and the withdrawal of advisory services from others help the unemployed claimants of Wales?

The hon. Gentleman refers to proposals put by the MSC management to its board for an extension and enlargement of its jobcentre programme and for the modernisation of many jobcentres to make them more available and more efficient. I understand that the board has now decided to consider those proposals further and to undertake certain experimental schemes. It is clearly for the MSC to take those proposals forward.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many representations he has received regarding a Welsh assembly in the past year.

None, Sir.

Does not that information like the 1979 referendum, confirm that the people of Wales see no need for a Welsh Assembly? That being so, is it not astonishing that the Leader of the Opposition, who once opposed such an Assembly, has now somersaulted and is advocating two such bodies for Wales?

I find it surprising that the Leader of the Opposition, having spent many hours in alliance with me opposing the Labour Government's devolution proposals, should now make proposals which inculude establishing a north Wales regional assembly apparently to supervise the two county authorities there. It is indeed a most extraordinary proposal.

Does the Secretary of State accept that if there is a strong vote for parties which support democracy in Wales in the forthcoming Aberdare by-election and the vote obtained by the Conservatives is derisory, the Government should take note of that?

I hope that the hon. Gentleman has taken note of the results of the last general election and its disastrous consequences for Plaid Cymru, which was dismissed with contempt by the electorate in Wales on a scale not known for many years.

Does the Secretary of State agree that although the Labour Government's proposals for devolution were rejected in 1979, the principle of devolving power to the people of Wales was not?

I would take suggestions from the hon. Gentleman more seriously if I were not aware of the recent debate among Liberals as to the kinds of proposals that they might now consider. I noted, however, that, as a result of the activities of one of the hon. Gentleman's parliamentary colleagues, they at least had the good sense to throw out the suggestion that there should be a large number of nominated members, apparently to be nominated by Lord Hooson.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how much will be given in grants to voluntary organisations by his Department during the current financial year.

The total provision for 1984–85 is £8·7 million. However, although grants have already been offered to some organisations, others are still under consideration. It is therefore too early to say what will be the total amount paid in grants during the financial year.

What is my hon. Friend's general policy towards the voluntary sector and, in particular, the mental handicap strategy?

We are fully committed to the development of a healthy and vigorous voluntary sector working in partnership with the statutory services. The voluntary sector has an important part to play in connection with the mental handicap strategy. In addition to providing £445,000 for specific voluntary projects in connection with the strategy in 1984–85, we are providing a further grant of £22,575 for essential administrative support for the all-Wales standing conference of voluntary organisations involved in the strategy.