asked the Attorney-General if he will give a breakdown by region of the total amounts paid out in legal aid in each of the last three years for which figures are available.

I assume that my hon. Friend is referring to those parts of the legal aid scheme administered by The Law Society through its legal aid area offices. Payment of legal aid bills by The Law Society is administered centrally and a breakdown of the figures by area offices could not be provided without disproportionate cost. The total gross payments made to solicitors and counsel by The Law Society in each of the last three financial years is as follows:

£ million
	1981–82	1982–83	1983–84
Civil legal aid	71·3	105·1	115·1
Criminal legal aid (magistrates' courts)	48·1	56·1	62·2
Legal advice and assistance	32·8	40·3	47·3

The net cost of the schemes, taking into account receipts by way of contributions, damages etc. was:

£ million
	1981–82	1982–83	1983–84
Civil legal aid	42·7	68·0	70·8
Criminal legal aid (magistrates' courts)	46·8	54·9	60·8
Legal advice and assistance	31·7	38·8	45·5

asked the Attorney-General if he will give a breakdown by region of the total number of complaints about delays in the processing of legal aid applications in each of the last three years.

This information is not collected.

asked the Attorney-General how many staff are employed in each of the No. 8 and No. 9 regional offices processing applications for legal aid; and what was the total salary bill for such staff in the last year for which figures are available.

I assume that my hon. Friend is referring to the No. 8 (northern) and No. 9 (north eastern) legal aid area offices of the Law Society. The number of staff at present employed in each of those offices dealing with civil legal aid applications is eight (area 8) and 11 (area 9). The cost of the salaries of those staff in financial year 1984–85 is expected to be approximately £79,000 (area 8) and £102,000 (area 9).

asked the Attorney-General if he will give a breakdown by regional office of the average length of time taken to process an application for legal aid.

This information is readily available only on a national basis. In 1983–84 the average time taken to process an application for civil legal aid was 38 working days.

asked the Attorney-General how many cases of applications for legal aid have been dealt with in the No. 9 and No. 8 regional offices in each of the last five years for which figures are available.

I assume my hon. Friend is referring to The Law Society's number 8 (northern) and number 9 (north-eastern) legal aid area offices. The figures for applications received in those offices for civil legal aid in the past five years are as follows:

	Area 8	Area 9
1979–80	15,857	24,545
1980–81	11,568	18,061
1981–82	12,386	18,886
1982–83	13,328	20,499
1983–84	15,074	22,619

asked the Attorney General if he will give a breakdown by region of the total numbers of applications for legal aid funding which were turned down in the last year for which figures are available.

The number of applications for civil legal aid which were refused by each of The Law Society's area offices in 1983–84 is as follows:

Legal Aid Area	Refused on legal grounds	Refused on financial grounds
No. 1 London (South)	923	467
No. 2 South-Eastern	785	211
No. 3 Southern	732	809
No. 4 South-Western	1,932	690
No. 5 South Wales	486	404
No. 6 West Midland	1,158	505
No. 7 North-Western	1,333	728
No. 8 Northern	1,666	253
No. 9 North-Eastern	2,578	378
No. 10 East Midland	1,283	441
No. 11 Eastern	1,105	387
No. 12 Chester and N. Wales	924	265
No. 13 London (East)	869	397
No. 14 London (West)	839	461
No. 15 Merseyside	1,418	462

asked the Attorney-General in what respect the Government's pleadings in the case of Lithgow and others now before the European Court of Human Rights vary from those presented to the European Commission of Human Rights.

The handling of cases under the European Convention on Human Rights is the responsibility of my right hon. and Learned Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, but I will answer this question with his agreement. The main difference in the Government's pleadings in its memorial to the European Court of Human Rights from those in its observations to the European Commission of Human Rights is that the Government have accepted the finding in the Commission's Report that there is inherent in Article 1 of the first protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights a right to compensation for the taking of the property of anyone within the jurisdiction of a contracting state where and in so far as the payment of compensation is necessary to preserve the appropriate relationship of proportionality between the interference with the individual's rights and the public interest. In accepting this finding the Government also of course accept the Commission's conclusion that the compensation actually paid in these cases met the requirements of Article 1.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will take steps to improve the arrangements so as to speed up security checks of honourable Members' parties visiting the Palace of Westminster.

I have asked the authorities of the House to look into this matter and, if necessary, to ask the Accommodation and Administration Sub-Committee of the Services Committee to consider what new measures should be taken.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what is the security classification of the captain's log on nuclear submarines.

Such documents have an individual security classification in accordance with their contents.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what is his policy on procurement of British equipment for the armed forces.

I refer my hon. Friend to the Answer which my predecessor, the hon. Member for Chertsey and Walton (Mr. Pattie) gave to the hon. Member for Bolton, South-East (Mr. Young) on 5 December 1983 at c. 28.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what offset or counter-trade proposals are being offered by Switzerland and Brazil for the Royal Air Force to purchase a foreign basic trainer aircraft.

The tenders for the three foreign-designed aircraft to meet the basic trainer requirement all propose that substantial amounts of the work would be undertaken in the United Kingdom, but no formal proposals have yet been received for further offset.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if any Ministers in his Department took part in any aspect of the de-briefing and associated activities of the crew of HMS Conqueror on its return to the United Kingdom after the Falklands war.

No.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether a permanent record of the movements of HMS Conqueror is made by the ship's internal navigation system.

I shall answer shortly.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if any photographic reproduction or copy was made of the signals log of HMS Conqueror before it was destroyed.

Not that we are aware.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence on what occasions in the last three months he, or other Ministers in his Department, have met the Commander-in-Chief Fleet; and what subjects were discussed.

In the last 3 months, the Commander-in-Chief Fleet has accompanied my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State to a meeting of the nuclear planning group and has participated in a MINIS meeting with him. Commander-in-Chief Fleet has also met my noble Friend the Under-Secretary of State for the Armed Forces at a dinner. Official discussions between Service commanders and Ministers are held on an in confidence basis.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence (1) if the Flag Officer Submarines' war diary for the Falklands war has now been seen by any officials in his Department;(2) when the Flag Officer Submarines' war diary for the Falklands war was compiled.

The "War Diary" for the Falklands conflict of Flag Officer Submarines was compiled from records kept during the Campaign and submitted to the Commander-in-Chief Fleet and the Ministry of Defence in early November 1982. Copies have been available to officials in the Ministry since then.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if, pursuant to his answer of 22 November, he will explain the differences between the captain's narrative account and report of proceedings.

I assume that the hon. Member is referring to the answer by my right hon. Friend appearing in the Official Report for 22 November at column 226. The Queen's Regulations for the Royal Navy, a copy of which is in the Library, require commanding officers of ships to report their proceedings from time to time. Separate instructions to submarine commanding officers require them to maintain inter alia detailed narrative accounts of operations and exercises, which will be available for subsequent analysis, and from which the report will be compiled.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the Royal Air Force currently possesses an aircraft that compares in performance and role to the Soviet Mig 29 Fulcrum.

We assess that the Fulcrum is optimised for the battlefield air superiority role. There is no RAF aircraft with a comparable primary role. The primary air defence task of the Royal Air Force is the protection of the integrity of the United Kingdom air defence region, for which the Tornado F2 is optimised.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the Royal Air Force are satisfied that the SNECMA M-88 engine will give the proposed European fighter aircraft the thrust/weight ratio the Royal Air Force require.

I refer the hon. Member to the reply given to him on 10 July at column 448–49, which made clear that Ministers have agreed in principle on the need for a new advanced fighter engine to be developed and produced for the European fighter aircraft and that current designs would not be suitable.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the proposed European fighter aircraft that the chiefs of staff have agreed upon will have the required radius of action for operations on the central front.

The European staff target, signed on October 11, takes into account the requirement to operate on the central front.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will estimate the number of jobs that the proposed European fighter aircraft is expected to provide to British Aerospace.

Entry into the European fighter aircraft programme would result in considerable work for the British aerospace industry, but it is too early to quantify this in terms of jobs.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence how many aircraft the Royal Air Force will require of the proposed European fighter aircraft.

It would be premature to quote numbers at this stage.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the 9·5 tonne weight specification agreed to by the chiefs of staff for the proposed European fighter aircraft would enable the aircraft to carry the RB-199 engine and still carry out its specified roles.

The mass of the aircraft is the subject of current studies. So far as the engine is concerned, I have explained in my reply to one of the hon. Member's earlier questions today that current designs would not be suitable.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what will be the estimated cost of the proposed European fighter aircraft.

It is premature to speculate, I would not expect to have reliable cost estimates until the end of a project definition phase.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence by what date the Royal Air Force requires a future fighter aircraft for its needs on the central front to be in service.

It is envisaged that the European fighter aircraft would replace Royal Air Force Phantoms and Jaguars from the mid-1990s.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence how much money his Department has invested in the experimental aircraft project to date.

It is a long-standing policy of Her Majesty's Government to treat information relating to procurement contracts as commercially confidential.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence (1) if he will give the reasons for the withdrawal of Jaguar aircraft from Germany;(2) which aircraft are currently carrying out the roles previously carried out by the Jaguars in Germany.

The RAF's Jaguar aircraft in Germany are being replaced in the strike/attack role by the more modern and effective Tornado GR1.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what the Royal Air Force intends to do with the Jaguar aircraft that have been withdrawn from Germany.

The intention is that for the most part they will be used to maintain the Jaguar Squadrons that we plan to run on in the UK.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will specify those exercises in the list contained in his reply of 22 November to the hon. Member for Wrexham which involved Pershing II missiles.

I cannot add to the reply I gave to the hon. Member on 15 November at c. 348.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what criteria he uses in declining to answer questions on the grounds of the disproportionate effort which would be involved.

I shall answer shortly.

asked. the Secretary of State for Defence (1) in what circumstances Royal Navy signal log books are destroyed;(2) in what circumstances signals log books from Royal Navy vessels could not be destroyed;(3) how many signals log books of Royal Navy vessels which served in the Falklands during the hostilities in 1982 have been destroyed.

[pursuant to his reply, 22 November 1984, c. 335]: In accordance with standing instructions, signals logs containing copies of signals received and sent are maintained. There is no requirement to retain these logs permanently, nor will there normally be any occasion to remove them from the ships or submarines concerned. Under standing instructions, they are kept for a period of three months and then destroyed. Some messages may be retained but that is a matter for the officers of the ship or submarine. It is therefore unlikely that any complete signals logs from the period of the Falklands conflict have been retained.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he will list all the collaborative arms projects in which Britain is involved with her European NATO allies, with the dates of commencement and completion, and the names of the companies which are parties to the contracts.

The major collaborative equipment projects in which the United Kingdom is involved with her European NATO allies and for which current contracts or arrangements exist are as follows:

Equipment	Commencement of United Kingdom Involvement†	Main Companies
			(a) United Kingdom (b) European
Tornado	1968	(a)	British Aerospace Rolls Royce
		(b)	MBB, Turbo-union; Mauser; Aeritalia; Fiat
EH101	1979	(a)	Westland
		(b)	Agusta
European Fighter Aircraft	1983	(a)	British Aerospace Rolls Royce
		(b)	Dassault Snecma Aeritalia Fiat MBB/Dornier MTU CASA
NATO Identification System*	1977	(a)	Plessey Cossor British Aerospace Ferranti
		(b)	Siemens/ESG LMT
Sidewinder/AIM 9L*	1978	(a)	British Aerospace
		(b)	BGT
Lynx/Puma/	1967	(a)	Westland
Gazelle		(b)	SNIAS
NFR 90*	1984	(a)	British Shipbuilders
		(b)	Thomson CSF MTG Fincantieri CNI Divisione Costuzioni Militeri; HSA; Expresa National Bazan
Sea Gnat	1977	(a)	Hunting Engineering
		(b)	No major company
Paris Sonar	1967	(a)	No major company
		(b)	Thomson CSF
FH70	1967	(a)	Vickers; ROFs
		(b)	Rheinmetall; Ota Melara
SP70	1973	(a)	ROFs
		(b)	Rheinmetall; Ota Melara

Equipment	Commencement of United Kingdom Involvement†	Main Companies
			(a) United Kingdom (b) European
MLRS Phase I*	1979	(a)	Hunting Engineering
		(b)	SNIAS Difesa Spazio RTG
Milan	1976	(a)	MSDS
		(b)	TRT; MBB; SNIAS
TRIGAT	1979	(a)	British Aerospace
		(b)	MBB; SNIAS
M483 Bomblet*	1980	(a)	ROFs
		(b)	Eurometal
ASRAAM/ AMRAAM*	1980		There are no current contracts
MLRS Phase III*	1982
* Also involves the United States of America and United States companies
† None has yet been completed.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will list the postings of Commander Wreford-Brown, Commander of HMS Conqueror in May 1982 from that date until the present; how much time he has been on sick leave during that period; and whether he has had to have any specialist medical treatment.

Since commanding HMS Conqueror, Commander Wreford-Brown has served on the staff of Flag Officer, Plymouth, has commanded HMS Valiant and is currently serving on the staff of Flag Officer, Submarines. Between appointments he has taken normal leave. Though we do not comment publicly on the health of individual service men, it would be quite wrong to draw any inferences from this as to the health of this particular officer.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence how long has now elapsed since he first received the tenders for the two type 22 frigates to determine which warship builders should receive the orders; when he expects to award the contracts; and what factors have caused the delay.

Tenders for the two ships were originally invited in July 1983 and were received in October of that year. As I announced on 24 July, the tenders lapsed before a decision could be reached. The Government therefore decided to seek new tenders for these vessels. These have now been received and are being considered. As I said on 24 July, at columns 814–15, we hope to place orders before the end of the year.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what information he has concerning the numbers of members of families of British forces personnel in Germany who were given medical treatment in each of the last five years as (a) inpatients and (b) outpatients.

The numbers, in thousands, of service dependants treated in British service hospitals in Germany for the years 1979 to 1983 incusive are as follows:

	Inpatients (new cases)	Outpatients (new cases)
1979	18·1	27·8
1980	19·1	26·2
1981	18·9	26·3
1982	18·4	29·3
1983	17·9	29·8

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what has been the total expenditure on health care provision for the families of British forces personnel in Germany in each of the last seven years for which figures are available.

Outturn figures of medical expenditure are not held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate effort. Estimated provision in 1983–84 for armed forces medical services in Germany amounted to some £39·2 million. Provision for 1984–85, also at 1983–84 prices, is about £39·8 million. These figures cover all medical services for both service personnel and their dependants. It is not possible to provide separate expenditure on health care provision for dependants only.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence how many doctors have served the families of British forces personnel in West Germany in each of the last five years for which figures are available.

The numbers of Ministry of Defence employed medical officers serving in Germany at 31 March for the years 1982 to 1984 were as follows:

	Number
1982	245
1983	242
1984	240

Figures for earlier years are not readily available. Most medical officers treat both service personnel and dependants.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what has been the total number of deaths of members of the families of British forces personnel in West Germany in each of the last five years; and if he will give a comparison of the rates per thousand population of such deaths with the United Kingdom.

The number of deaths of members of the families of British forces personnel in West Germany in each of the last five years is as follows:

	Number
1979	106
1980	101
1981	103
1982	93
1983	89

Information is not readily available on comparative family mortality rates.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what information he has concerning the number of home visits made by British medical staff to the homes of the families of British forces personnel in Germany in recent years.

The number of such visits is not recorded centrally.The value of home visits is well recognised and service dependants are eligible to receive such visits. The responsibility for deciding for or against a visit lies with the medical officer, who must balance the advantages of a visit against such factors as: the loss of time to treat other patients; his availability to cover emergencies; the better facilities at the medical centre for further examination and treatment; and transport facilities for patients to the medical centre for those patients unable to attend by their own means.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if the captain of HMS Conqueror asked at any time for a change in the rules of engagement to enable him to sink the General Belgrano.

No.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence on how many occasions an order was transmitted to the captain of HMS Conqueror to sink the Argentine cruiser General Belgrano.

I will answer shortly.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether the information contained in the message forms of HMS Conqueror has been retained.

As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence told the hon. Member on 22 November, all operational messages of importance are recorded in Flag Officer, Submarines' war diary.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence (1) if he will list the figures for rainfall recorded by the Meteorological Office at Wakefield sewerage works on 1, 2, 3, and 4 November 1983 and 1, 2, 3 and 4 November 1984, respectively;(2) if his Meteorological Office is able to state what degree of rainfall occurred in the Wakefield area on 1, 2, 3, and 4 November 1984.

The data for November 1984 are riot immediately available. I shall write to the right hon. Gentleman as soon as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence on what date the second flight of cruise missiles became operational with the 501st Tactical Missile Wing at Greenham common.

In early October.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence how many exercises involving transporter erector launchers and launch control centres driving off the base have taken place since the initial operating capacity of cruise missiles at Greenham common.

I refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave him on 20 November, at column 88.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether units of the 501st Tactical Missile Wing at Royal Air Force Greenham common have passed all their tactical evaluation tests.

The information of the performance of units in tactical evaluation exercises is classified and cannot be released.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he is satisfied that the basing of cruise missiles at Royal Air Force, Molesworth will not be adversely affected by radio and radar emissions from Royal Air Force Alconbury.

Yes.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence when the signals log of HMS Conqueror during the Falklands campaign was destroyed; on whose authority; and at what level the decision was taken.

[pursuant to his reply, 22 November 1984, c. 335]: HMS Conqueror's signals log covering the period of the Falklands campaign was destroyed over the period to February 1983. The destruction is carried out under the authority of the Defence Council.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence when the routine destruction of signal logs of nuclear submarines was introduced in the Royal Navy; and by whose authority.

[pursuant to his reply, 22 November 1984, c. 335]: Available records show that the routine destruction of signals logs has been the practice since at least 1963. The destruction is carried out under the authority of the Defence Council.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) if he will list the Metropolitan Police areas where graded response times have been implemented;(2) if he will publish the detailed graded response times which operate in the police area covering Leyton and Leytonstone.

The Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis tells me that an experimental scheme has been introduced in Croydon but that he has not yet prepared guidelines for the introduction of graded response throughout the force area. Graded response does not operate on the basis of fixed response times. Its purpose is to make more effective use of available manpower by grading police response to 999 calls in the light of an assessment of the urgency of each call and the likely result of immediate police action.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether the proposed legislation on telephone tapping will give the police access to the results of telephone metering.

In the light of the relevant findings of the European Court in the Malone case, the Government are considering whether it would be appropriate to include provisions governing the disclosure of metering information in this Session's Bill on the interception of communications. A statement setting out the scope and content of the Bill will be made in due course.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he expects to reply to the letter written to him on 2 August from the hon. Member for Birkenhead about Mr. and Mrs. Saad Ali of 47 Parkside road, Birkenhead.

Mr. and Mrs. Saad Ali have now been interviewed. I shall write to the hon. Member as soon as we have received and considered the report of the interview.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what was the status of the person who authorised his Department's press release of 14 September 1977 which announced Dr. Clift's suspension; and if Dr. Clift was given prior notice of the press release.

The press release was issued following consultations with the then Home Secretary. It does not appear that Dr. Clift was given prior notice of it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will make available to an independent arbitrator acceptable to Dr. Clift's solicitor the complete report of the police investigation into Dr. Clift's work, the statements by his Department's staff in the trial of Messrs. Morgan, Brown and Cowley, and the annual staff reports on Dr. Clift for the period 1972 to 1974 so that an independent arbitrator can judge whether or not they are relevant to the issues which were being considered by the departmental retirement board.

No. I am satisfied that Dr. Clift's position was fully and properly considered by the departmental retirement board and the Civil Service Appeal Board.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how long it took for it to become clear that Dr. Clift's work did not reach an acceptable standard of professional competence; by what process it was made clear; whose view it was that it had become clear; and how much certainty was attached to the view that professional incompetence had become clear.

I would refer the right hon. Member to what my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State said in reply to the Adjournment debate on 15 November, at columns 889–94.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many cases were handled by Dr. Clift during his 24 years as a Home Office forensic scientist; if he will give the total number of cases in which he was involved when a conviction was quashed; in how many and which of the cases where a conviction was quashed Dr. Clift's evidence was found unreliable because (a) of his discrediting and (b) it was challenged by other forensic experts who re-examined or re-evaluated the original forensic evidence; and in how many of these cases re-examination of the original material took place.

It has not proved possible to ascertain the total number of cases handled by Dr. Clift. As I have previously told the right hon. Member, a scrutiny of the records then available had yielded a total of approximately 1,500 instances in which Dr. Clift had examined material. More recently, further laboratory records have been located as a result of which an additional 80 or so instances, which we are examining, have come to light.We do not have comprehensive information about the number of cases in which Dr. Clift was involved where the conviction was quashed on appeal, though we know of five where the conviction was quashed following a reference to the Court of Appeal or, in Scotland, the High Court of Justiciary, and one case where the conviction was quashed by the Court of Appeal following an appeal by the person convicted. On three cases recently heard by the Court of Appeal, I would refer the right hon. Member to the reply given to a question from him on 15 November, at column 303. In another referred case, heard by the court in 1978, a forensic expert who re-examined some original material gave evidence which was in variance to that of Dr. Clift. On the one Scottish case, I would refer the right hon. Member to what was said by my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department in and Adjournment debate on 15 November, at columns 890–91; Dr. Clift's contribution was assessed by other forensic scientists; no original samples were re-examined. In the other case, in which leave to appeal was given by the Court of Appeal in 1981, the court quashed the conviction, which was regarded as resting solely on scientific evidence, having regard to the serious criticisms advanced about Dr. Clift's evidence in the Scottish case. Dr. Clift's contribution was assessed by another forensic scientist, but I understand that no evidence was given. No original samples were re-examined.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will name his Department's officials who took part in the discussions between 5 and 8 September 1977 which culminated in the decision taken on 8 September to suspend Dr. Clift; and say whether at this stage or on 9 September when Dr. Clift was informed of his suspension he was invited to have representation of any kind.

The officials were the then principal establishment officer, under secretary in charge of personnel management in the establishment department, under secretary in charge of the Police technical services department, controller of the Forensic Science Service, head of establishment division 5, and director and assistant director of the Birmingham forensic science laboratory. In accordance with normal practice Dr. Clift was not invited to have representation at that stage.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the position of his Department's employees whose future is being considered by his Department's early retirement board; if they have an automatic right to be legally represented; and if they or their legal representatives have the right to cross-examine his Department's witnesses.

Staff appearing before a departmental retirement board are told they may be assisted by a friend, who may be a staff association representative. These are not legal proceedings and legal representation would not normally be considered appropriate.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how the secretor status of a dead person is determined; how reliable is the test; and in what circumstances there is a risk of contamination invalidating the test.

The secretor status of a dead person can be determined by a form of blood grouping (the Lewis group system) or by the grouping of the saliva on a mouth swab. The reliability of the tests depends on the condition of the samples; tests on badly contaminated samples may not be reliable and should not be used.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what discussions he has had with the National Union of Licensed Victuallers and representatives from the brewery trade on flexible hours for public houses; if he is proposing to introduce legislation on this matter; and if he will make a statement.

I met the National Union of Licensed Victuallers a year ago for a general discussion. Both I and officials have also met representatives of the brewing industry. These discussions have touched on the question of flexible hours in public houses.My right hon. and learned Friend has no immediate plans to reform the licensing law, but we are keeping the matter under review.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he wall make a statement outlining the nature of the request which the London Sikh community submitted to the Metropolitan police recently on the holding of a march to Hyde park and a meeting in the park; and what decision he has made on these requests.

Members of the Sikh community in London informed the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis that it was their intention to hold a religious meeting on 18 November followed by a march through London to commemorate those Sikhs recently killed in India. The plans were for a religious service to take place in Hyde park from 12.30 pm to 2.00 pm; at 2.30 pm those assembled would march to Jubilee gardens via Hyde park corner, Victoria street, Westminster bridge and York road.The Commissioner was of the opinion that his powers to give directions under section 3(1) of the Public Order Act 1936 would be insufficient to prevent serious public disorder. He therefore sought the Home Secretary's consent to an order under section 3(3) of the Act prohibiting, from 17 November to 24 November, the holding of all public processions within the Metropolitan police district, except those customarily held of a religious, educational, festive or ceremonial character. My right hon. and learned Friend gave his consent to the order on 16 November. In the light of this decision my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment withdrew the permission he had initially granted for the use of Hyde park as a meeting and assembly point.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he has any plans to extend his existing powers over police and fire services to control in addition civilian staff levels.

None, except for the possible use of those discretionary interim joint board controls the Government propose in clause 80 of the Local Government Bill.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether any letters written by Mr. Raja, Mr. Riaz and Mr. Siddique, who are on remand at Winson Green prison, have been withheld by the governor, deputy governor or prison officers.

No letter from any of the three prisoners named has been stopped under the provisions of standing order 5.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will call for a report from the chief constable of Thames Valley about the cost of policing the most recent off-base exercise by units of the 501st Tactical Missile Wing at Greenham common; and if he will make a statement.

I understand that the information about additional costs is not yet available.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will call for a report from the chief constable of Thames Valley about the cost of policing the off-base exercises by units of the 501st Tactical Missile Wing at Greenham common, since such exercises began; and if he will make a statement.

I shall reply to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many meetings Ministers in his Department have held with the British Medical Association to discuss its campaign to curb sports sponsorship to promote the sale of cigarettes; which Ministers were involved on each occasion; and if he will make a statement.

The sponsorship of sport by tobacco companies is already restricted by a voluntary agreement between the industry and the Government. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services, and my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Health and Social Security, have had one recent meeting with the association, during which sponsorship was discussed. I have had no meetings with the association.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what consultations the Welwyn Hatfield district council has had with his officials regarding the extension of the right to buy consequent upon the Housing Act 1984.

Apart from correspondence about one leasehold property, there have been no consultations between my officials and the council about the extension of the right to buy. I am writing to my hon. Friend about the new provisions as they affect dwellings for the elderly and the disabled.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will give further details of the curriculum vitae of Mr. Alan Benjamin, whom he has appointed to the London Docklands Development Corporation; whether he has any overlapping financial interests in respect of the functions of the corporation; how many days a week Mr. Benjamin will be engaged on the business of the corporation; and what arrangements are being made for his remuneration.

As the hon. Member will know from the Department's press notice issued on 12 November, Mr. Benjamin is a director of the CAP Group. He was previously director-general of the Computing Services Association (1975–80) and director of corporate communication for International Computers Ltd. He is a chartered accountant and a Fellow of the British Computer Society.Mr. Benjamin has no financial interests which overlap with the functions of LDDC. In case such a conflict of interest should occur, the corporation's standing orders require members to declare any direct or indirect financial interest in a matter under consideration at a meeting of the corporation and to refrain from taking part in discussing or voting on the matter.Mr. Benjamin's appointment, which is for a period of three years, involves a commitment of about half a day a week. The salary based on this commitment, which is not pensionable, is currently £3,615 per annum.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what terms were imposed in connection with the recent Democratic Unionist party rally in Trafalgar square.

Permission was given, not for a Democratic Unionist party rally in Trafalgar Square, but for a public meeting organised by the Apprentice Boys of Derry (Londonderry) Thames and Avon branch Murray Club on 17 November.The organisers assured my Department that this would be a prayer meeting with hymns, not a political rally. However, in the light of what took place I have instructed my Department to pursue with the organisers what appears to be a breach of their undertaking.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he anticipates being able to designate the area to the north-west of Felixstowe in the Orwell estuary as an area of special scientific interest.

I understand that the Nature Conservancy Council hopes to issue notice of its intention to notify the Orwell estuary as a site of special scientific interest within the next few months.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what discussions have taken place in the current year between his Department, the Yorkshire water authority, and the Wakefield metropolitan district council regarding drainage, with particular reference to water courses, conduits and sewerage, in the Wakefield metropolitan district.

None in the current financial year. Any discussions which Wakefield metropolitan district council may have had with the Yorkshire water authority are entirely a matter between these two authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what measures he proposes to take in respect of the Greater London council research library in the event of the abolition of the Greater London council; and if he will make a statement on the future of the library.

No decision has yet been taken on future arrangements for the Greater London research library.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment which voluntary organisations are, to his knowledge, opposing abolition of the Greater London council because they have become too dependent on the Greater London council for financial support as indicated in his speech to the annual general meeting of the National Council for Voluntary Organisations on 12 November.

[pursuant to his reply, 23 November 1984, c. 312]: In his speech my right hon. Friend was issuing a general warning about the dangers to voluntary organisations of becoming over-dependent on particular sources of public funding—whether central or local government — and the way in which this could compromise their independence.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he expects the form of local authority statements of accounts to be prescribed by regulation; and what he expects this form to be.

In the light of comments received in response to their consultation paper issued earlier this year, my right hon. Friend, together with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales, proposes to make regulations which will first apply to local authorities' statements of accounts for the financial year beginning 1 April 1986, and which will specify both the accounts to be included in these statements and particular items to be disclosed. My right hon. Friends propose that the regulations should require statements of accounts which

(i) contain both individual accounts for each main fund and consolidated accounts showing an authority's overall financial position;

(ii) have a standard service based analysis of income and expenditure;

(iii) have a balance sheet prepared on the "deferred charges" basis thereby focusing on an authority's outstanding liabilities rather than on the historic cost of its fixed assets;

(iv) contain notes to the accounts providing additional information; and

(v) are in a form suitable for integration with annual reports.

The details of the regulations will be subject of further consultation, in particular with the local authority associations, the Audit Commission, and with the accountancy profession.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will place copies in the Library of the title deeds to Maltby common as supplied to him and the counsel's opinion referred to in his answer on 22 November, Official Report, column 281.

[pursuant to his reply, 26 November 1984, c. 401]: No. The tile deeds and the counsel's opinion referred to are not his to place in the Library.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment from whom he received the title deeds concerning Maltby common, which satisfied him in 1982 on the ownership question; and who these revealed to be the alleged owner of the common.

[pursuant to his reply, 26 November 1984, c. 401]: The deeds were received from Messrs. Allen and Overy, solicitors acting for the Earl of Scarbrough. They satisfied the Department that the Earl of Scarbrough was the owner of Maltby common.

asked the Solicitor-General for Scotland if the Scottish Crown lawyers had a meeting with Dr. Clift in May 1973 to discuss evidential evidence for the forthcoming John Preece trial; and if the blood group of the murdered woman was a subject of discussion at the meeting.

Prior to the trial of John Preece there was a meeting between members of the Crown Office legal staff and Dr. Clift. Dr. Clift was given at that meeting a report prepared in connection with another case to use as a style for the reports he had to produce for the Scottish court proceedings, his earlier statement being in a form appropriate only for English procedure. Discussion was limited to the style of presentation. There was no discussion of the blood group of the murdered woman.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many cases, as opposed to outbreaks, of food poisoning in hospital premises in Wales were reported for each year since 1978.

Data on cases of food poisoning and salmonellosis in hospital premises are not available separately for Wales.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what information he has received from Her Majesty's ambassador in Addis Ababa about the number of deaths from famine, or disease related to famine, in Ethiopia during the month of November; and what progress has been made in alleviating the situation since the international relief effort began to take effect over recent weeks.

	Item	Cost £ million	Status
1.	Landrover spare parts, two new engines and 500 tyres for Ethiopian Relief and Rehabilitation Commission (RRC).	0·10	Tyres being shipped December. All other items dispatched by air 16 November.
2.	Ten new landrovers for RRC.	0·09	Shipped 24 November.
3.	Two mobile workshops with full complement of equipment and tools for RRC.	0·05	Air freighted 17 November.
4.	Ten dumper trucks and spares for Assab Port.	0·35	Ordered. Depart mid-January 1985 by sea.
5.	Two grain conveyors and spares for two existing conveyors for Assab Port.	0·05	Conveyors and spares ordered: depart mid-January 1985 by sea.
	2,000 needles for grain bagging machines for Assab Port.		1,500 needles by Air Mail on 25 November, 500 to follow late-December.
6.	Airfreight costs for International Committee of the Red Cross.	0·45	Awaiting ICRC request.
7.	Six landrovers for Embassy (1) and British voluntary agencies, and freight costs.	0·15	Four sent by air early November; Two to go by sea in December.
8.	Drilling rigs for Ethiopian Water Commission (EWWCA), back-up truck and equipment, drilling technician.	0·36	One rig, with truck and equipment, to be shipped mid-January1985.
One awaiting technical advice.
9.	Five 30-tonne trucks for Catholic Fund for Overseas Development.	0·25	Ordered. Depart early December by sea.
10.	Seeds and tools for OXFAM.	0·10	Oxfam authorised to purchase locally.
11.	Airfreighting of various equipment for Disasters Emergency Committee.	0·10	Completed 2 November.
12.	Food monitors, mechanics and other manpower (provisional).	0·20	Recruitment in hand.
13.	Internal transport for British food aid.	0·75	Expenditure will begin when food arrives.
14.	Tents for League of Red Cross societies.	0·09	Supplied 3 November.
15.	Airfreight of blankets, polythene sheets etc. for Red Cross.	0·05	Sent 17 November.
16.	500 tarpaulins for covering grain trucks, 50 kilometres of cable and rope, and tarpaulin repair kits.	0·15	Estimated dispatch date: early January 1985.
17.	Shipment of 3,000 tonnes of grain.	0·21	Estimated for dispatch at end of December.
		3·50

asked the Secretary of State for Energy when he intends to introduce new arrangements for onshore petroleum licensing.

I shall discuss these matters with the ambassador during my visit and will write to my hon. Friend after I return.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he will make a statement on the progress of the Ethiopian disaster relief project since the Minister for Overseas Development's speech to the House on 14 November, Official Report, columns 777–80.

Since the end of last month about £3·5 million has been spent or committed on the provision and shipment of relief supplies for Ethiopia: Details are as follows:

The Petroleum (Production) (Landward Areas) Regulations 1984 SI No. 1832 were laid before the House on 26 November 1984.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on the progress of the new blood recruitment initiative in higher education.

Under the three-year scheme announced by my right hon. Friend in December 1982, a total of 592 posts have been allocated to the universities for the academic years 1983–84 and 1984–85, of which 488 are in the natural sciences. The allocation of posts for 1985–86 will be announced by the University Grants Committee in due course. My right hon. Friend is considering the advice of the UGC that some kind of new blood scheme will continue to be necessary after 1985–86.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received concerning the future financing of the Open University; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend and I have received 1,455 letters, and one petition signed by 600 people. Most of the representations which have been passed to us by right hon. and hon. Members have been from Open University staff and present and past students. A small number of letters have also been received from noble lords, the Northern Ireland Assembly, professional bodies, local trades councils, borough and city councils, and interest groups.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what information he has as to the school leaving rate at 16 years of age among pupils in the borough of Knowsley.

In January 1984, 18·8 per cent. of those pupils in maintained secondary schools in Knowsley who were aged 15 a year earlier were now aged 16. This implies that the school leaving rate by January 1984 of those reaching 16 in the academic year 1982–83 in Knowsley was 81·2 per cent. Some of these school leavers will have continued in full-time education in further education establishments.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on his policy toward school closures in Lancashire.

My right hon. Friend's policies towards school closures are set out in circulars 2/80, 2/81 and 4/82, copies of which I am sending to my hon. Friend. Every proposal that comes to my right hon. Friend for decision, whether for a school in Lancashire or elsewhere, is given careful consideration in the light of these policies and the particular circumstances of the individual case.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what estimates he has made of the number of students expected to graduate at degree level in science and in engineering in each of the next five academic years; and how this compares with. Her Majesty's Government's forecasts of anticipated demand.

The figures on projected graduate output are as follows:

(000's)
	Science*	Engineering	Total
1984–85	23·2	12·6	35·8
1985–86	23·6	13·6	37·2
1986–87	24·8	14·3	39·1
1987–88	24·8	14·8	39·6
1988–89	24·4	14·6	39·0
1989–90	24·5	14·6	39·1
* Exludes medical and social science.

There are no detailed figures available for anticipated demands for science and engineering graduates. However, this question was considered with regard to information technology related subjects by the Information Technology Skills Shortages Committee, whose first report concluded that the market could comfortably absorb more graduates from these disciplines. while we are still considering our response to this report, the Government have nevertheless already taken substantial measures to increase the number of science and engineering graduates. The Information Technology in Higher Education Initiative, which my right hon. Friend announced in December 1982, will provide an additional 5,000 higher diploma, undergraduate and postgraduate places in electronics engineering and computer science in the universities and the public sector of higher education by 1985. As a result of the planning exercise conducted recently by the National Advisory Body for local authority higher education, there will be a significant shift in subject balance within local authority higher education (LANE) in 1984–85 towards scientific, technological and business-related subjects. First-year intakes to full-time and sandwich courses in engineering are planned to increase by 15 per cent. in 1984–85 over 1982–83 and intakes in mathematics and computing, including most LANE information technology courses, are planned to rise by 49 per cent. Finally, in response to a request from the University Grants Committee, universities have indicated that at their new levels of staffing and funding the admission of over 3,000 additional students, mainly in scientific and technological subjects, might be achieved in both 1984–85 and 1985–86. These changes are reflected in the above figures.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what responses he has received to the consultation document., "Corporal Punishment in Schools"; and if he will make a statement.

Responses were received from over 90 organisations and individuals and were carefully considered in deciding the scope and content of the legislation we shall be introducing to allow parents to exempt their children from corporal punishment in schools.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is (a) the number of students graduating in information technology-related subjects in the current year and (b) the projected demand for graduates in information technology-related subjects for the current year and for the following five years.

In 1984–85 some 3,100 first-degree students are expected to graduate in electronic engineering and some 2,600 in computer science, from universities and public sector institutions in Great Britain.Detailed demand projections of the kind indicated cannot be made with any precision and future estimates vary widely. The question of future demand for graduates in this field was, however, recently considered by a committee chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for

Cash, £ million
Council	1980–81	1981–82	1982–83	1983–84	1984–85
Agricultural and Food Research Council	37·5	42·1	43·6	46·0	46·5
Medical Research Council	72·7	101·7	107·5	113·7	117·2
Natural Environment Research Council	46·7	54·3	58·0	62·5	65·9
Science and Engineering Research Council	204·0	216·8	234·4	254·5	278·8
Economic and Social Research Council	20·3	20·7	20·9	22·4	22·0
Total	381·2	435·6	464·4	499·1	530·4

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many schools have reduced their service of school meals and milk during each of the last three years; and what information he has as to how many dinner ladies have had to accept reductions in negotiated levels of wages and conditions during the same period.

This information is not collected centrally.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what measures he proposes to introduce, following his statement at the meeting of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development Education Ministers, to promote equality of opportunity in areas within his Departmental responsibility.

The Government's aim is to raise the standards achieved by all pupils, bearing in mind the evidence (including that in reports by Her Majesty's Inspectorate) of existing disparities between the performance of pupils in schools in very similar circumstances. I believe that significant progress will be made through our plans to improve the training of teachers; to seek broad national agreement on the objectives of the curriculum; to introduce changes in the examination system which will reinforce effective teaching in our schools; and to bring in via pilot schemes records of achievement for all school leavers.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the estimated effect on the demand for Coventry, South-West (Mr. Butcher), Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry. A copy of its first report is in the Library.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what were the budgets for the five research councils in the years 1980–81, 1981–82, 1982–83 and 1983–84; and what are the estimated budgets for the current financial year.

The research council's grants-in-aid from the science budget are as follows:places in higher education of

The projections of demand for higher education published in "Report on Education 100" (July 1984) take as their starting point the propensity to enter higher education experienced in 1981 (variant X) and in 1983 (variant Y). This was a product of the then current level of student grant and of other factors affecting demand. The report recognises that changes in the level of student grant and in other factors could affect demand, but it is not possible to project with any confidence the effect of any particular change in this complex of factors.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what study has been, or will be, made by his Department of the implications for the demand for A-level, further education and higher education places of his statement to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development Education Ministers in Paris regarding the objective of seeing 80 to 90 per cent. of all pupils reaching or surpassing at age 16 the standards now associated with the average.

The projections set out in DES "Report on Education 100" take account of trends towards an increased proportion of young people obtaining the qualifications for entry to higher education. The Department will monitor closely the demand for post-16 education, including changes associated with the Government's policies to improve the standards achieved by pupils of compulsory school age.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science (1) when he expects to take a decision on the proposal to open a new primary school at Leigh road, Saltley;(2) when his Department received a proposal from the City of Birmingham council for a new primary school at Leigh road, Saltley.

The authority published these proposals on 10 August 1983 and submitted them to my right hon. Friend on the same date; subsequently it requested my right hon. Friend on 24 November 1983, if he were minded to approve the proposals, to modify their date of implementation from September 1984 to September 1985. My right hon. Friend realises that all concerned are now anxious for an early decision. He will announce that decision as soon as he has completed his consideration of all the circumstances of the case.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he has any plans for increasing provision for the availability and use of computers in special schools; and if he will make a statement.

I am at present reviewing all expenditure on support programmes of this kind and will make a statement when it is completed. However, the hon. Member may like to know that my Department financed the production of a pack of 25 computer programmes for use by teachers of children with moderate learning difficulties. This pack, known as "Microspecial", is being made available at no cost to a number of special schools throughout the United Kingdom and will also be available for purchase.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (1) what is the average length of time taken to grant an export licence to a British company under the consultative committee agreement when the consent or agreement of other consultative committee agreement partners is necessary;(2) what criteria are used to determine whether licences under the COCOM Agreement can be granted at the discretion of Her Majesty's Government; and whether consultation and agreement with other countries is necessary;(3) if he will describe the procedures followed by his Department in considering applications by British companies for licences for export of equipment covered by the COCOM Agreement including

The scope of COCOM's controls on exports of equipment and technology, including whether licences may be issued at national discretion, is established by unanimous agreement of the member Governments in accordance with agreed strategic criteria. In considering applications for export licences, my Department, having determined that a licence is indeed required, seeks the views of other Government Departments with an interest, whether or not the issue of that licence also requires the approval of our COCOM partners. Information on the average length of time to grant licences when such prior approval is necessary is not readily available. I have no proposals for the modification of these procedures, but they are kept under regular review.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what steps he is taking to improve the volume of trade between Mauritius and the United Kingdom; and if he will make a statement.

I see considerable scope for a modest increase in trade between the United Kingdom and Mauritius. For this reason, my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, who visited Mauritius in October 1983, signed a memorandum of understanding with the Government of Mauritius for a £12·25 million aid and credit package. Under this agreement projects mutually acceptable to both Governments will have access to funding from: the package. A number of such projects have already been identified and disbursements are expected to start shortly.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what were the trading figures between the United Kingdom and Mauritius in each year since the independence of Mauritius and up to the latest date for which figures are available.

The information is as follows:

Value £ million
	United Kingdom imports (cif)	United Kingdom experts (fob)		United Kingdom imports (cif)	United Kingdom exports (fob)
1969	21·6	4·8	1977	96·7	34·6
1970	22·3	5·9	1978	123·2	31·6
1971	17·3	3·4	1979	115·7	30·5
1972	27·0	8·1	1980	138·9	24·9
1973	28·3	10·5	1981	97·4	21·6
1974	48·5	20·0	1982	119·4	20·8
1975	104·6	24·3	1983	129·0	22·6
1976	99·9	28·4	*1984	106·9	18·9
* January to September.