asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on the service available in Wales for bone marrow transplants.

A new purpose-built unit for bone marrow transplant operations has been provided this year at the University Hospital of Wales, Cardiff. My right hon. Friend will perform the opening ceremony this Friday, 21 November.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for such a good and encouraging reply. How many operations will the unit be able to undertake? Will it meet the need for bone marrow transplants in the future?

The unit will be capable of providing 20 bone marrow transplant operations each year. Therefore, it is expected to meet the need for bone marrow transplantations in Wales for the foreseeable future.

Is the Under-Secretary happy that so much of the initiative on bone marrow transplantation has had to be left to the initiatives arising from the dire need of the parents of those who are suffering?

This initiative has been taken by the Welsh Office. It is centrally funded, and we shall continue to fund its recurrent costs.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied with the fact that bone marrow transplants and the other excellent parts of the expanded Health Service are still submerged in an extensive committee system? Does he recognise the frustration of Health Service managers who should be free to manage resources against priorities instead of carrying out some of the difficult-to-understand decisions that come out of the committee system?

I understand what my hon. Friend is saying, but district health authorities are required to create their own sets of priorities and to manage their resources within them. In addition, we fund services regionally, such as the bone marrow transplant unit, and this is designed to give priority to certain projects which we feel require it and have specific importance.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what was the total current and capital expenditure of his Department on housing during the last year for which figures are available.

Total public expenditure on housing in Wales in 1985–86 was £206·6 million.

Without reservation, I condemn the recent arson attacks in my constituency. However, is not one of the problems facing rural areas such as in Gwynedd the shortage of rented accommodation, which to some extent has been impacted by the level of holiday homes? In these circumstances, will the Minister give an assurance that sufficient of the additional money announced recently by the Chancellor of the Exchequer for housing in general will come to Wales, and Gwynedd in particular, to give a guarantee that any person without a home for up to six months will get a house, either to rent or buy, within his means and within his area?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State wrote to him on 1 November informing him that a supplementary allocation of £100,000 for the acquisition of vulnerable properties was being made available in his constituency. We have had a similar request for next year and we shall consider it in the normal way. I welcome the hon. Gentleman's response to the recent incident.

Will my hon. Friend welcome the enormously increased provision for housing expenditure announced in the autumn statement and will he confirm that a certain proportion of that will be going to Wales?

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State still has to take his decisions as to the spending in Wales in the coming year throughout the block. However, this financial year we have increased resources or allocations to local authorities by nearly 30 per cent.

Is the Under-Secretary of State aware that the system of refurbishing PRC homes that was initially established under the 1984 Act is now in absolute chaos because of the inactivity of his Department? Is he particularly aware of the difficulties experienced, because of the inadequacies of the Act, in low-value areas—for example, in my own area of Rhymney Valley—where the local authority is faced with the wholesale repurchase of homes which had previously been sold? Will the Under-Secretary of State confirm that he has particular powers under the 1985 Act to use his discretion, and will he guarantee that he will look immediately at the problems involved in implementing this Act and take action accordingly?

I am not entirely sure what the hon. Gentleman means by the dalliance of my Department. In terms of the submissions made to us by local authorities, we have met in full every bid for PRC houses. The hon. Gentleman should also be aware that recently we have increased the eligible expense limits. We shall continue to keep PRC houses, including, of course, those in the hon. Gentleman's constituency, under review.

Is not the Government's response poor recognition of the fact that Wales has such a large stock of pre-1919 homes, so many of which lack even basic amenities? Many thousands of houses need repair, our waiting lists are soaring, homelessness is rife, and yet thousands of building and construction workers are standing in the dole queue. Instead of sabotaging our local authorities, is it not time that the Government told them to get on with the job of repairing these houses and building new ones?

I find the hon. Gentleman's use of the word "sabotage" extraordinary. When his party was in power it spent a mere £57 million on private sector renovation. To date this Government have spent £333 million on private sector renovation. In that area alone there has been an increase in spending during the current financial year. We have targeted resources on the home improvement backlog, and I am hopeful that we shall continue to do so during the coming months.

I hope that when finance is made available to improve houses in Wales, capital expenditure on housing will be spread throughout Wales, including my constitency of Cardiff, West, where the houses are in just as poor repair as anywhere else in Wales. Therefore, I do not accept the Opposition's crocodile tears. They are always crying for their own benefit. Should not the cake be divided equally among all parts of Wales?

I assure my hon. Friend that we shall continue to provide resources right across Wales, bearing in mind the needs of individual areas.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what are the latest unadjusted figures for unemployment in (a) Wrexham and (b) Wales; what were the equivalent figures in May 1979; and what has been the percentage increase in each case.

On 9 October 1986 the total numbers of unemployed claimants in the Wrexham travel-to-work area and Wales were 7,730 and 174,105 respectively. Unadjusted figures for 1979 are not available on a comparable basis.

Is the Secretary of State aware that many of the new jobs that have been created in Wales are low paid, attracting a rate of pay of perhaps only £50—£70 a week? Is the Secretary of State also aware that although these jobs are welcome they are generally regarded as slave labour and in no way a substitute for the well paid, headof-household jobs that Wales has lost? What analysis has the Secretary of State made, and is he proud of what his Department is doing?

Faced with the fall in the number of unemployed people, I suppose that instead of welcoming that fact the hon. Gentleman is now trying to divert the issue by suggesting that these very welcome new jobs are somehow undesirable. Having looked at many of the very attractive industrial projects in his constituency, I do not believe that those who are employed in them regard their jobs as slave labour. The hon. Gentleman's suggestion is ludicrous in the extreme.

Does my right hon. Friend accept that the proposal to privatise services, including those in the National Health Service, will not create further unemployment but that they will create more efficiency and better value for money? Will he condemn unreservedly the tactics that are being used by NUPE in Clwyd to black those employers who agree with the proposal to privatise the health services?

Yes. It is quite disgraceful. We are seeking to concentrate the maximum possible resources on patient care and to obtain the best value for money. Any union that thinks it ought to go on strike against that objective is behaving disgracefully.

There are some areas in Wales where unemployment and the prospects for employment are as deep and chronic as ever. Those areas make a mockery of the suggestion that we sometimes get from the Treasury Bench that there have been six years of growth. Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether some of those areas, which continue to face those serious problems, will have restored to them some of the cuts in regional aid which he approved? In the recent public expenditure discussions in Cabinet, did he fight for a restoration of those cuts, which have contributed to higher numbers of unemployed?

They did not contribute to the numbers unemployed; they contributed to the significant fall in the numbers unemployed. One of the reasons for that is that in the months to October this year there have been Government owned factory allocations in Wales of some 2,233,000 sq ft. That is an all-time record, because it is more in the period to October than in any full year before. It is an indication of the success of selective regional policy in creating jobs where they are most needed.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the fall in unemployment in the borough of Delyn from 4,612 in September 1985 to 4,307 this year is a remarkable achievement in view of the massive job losses arising from the Courtaulds Greenfield closure? Does he also agree that this achievement is largely due to the Government's enterprise zone policy, a policy to which the Labour party was and is bitterly opposed?

I agree with my hon. Friend that Delyn has had remarkable success in replacing the jobs lost after the Courtaulds closures. I congratulate the local authority on the vigour with which it has pursued its policy to make a success of the enterprise zone.

Is the Secretary of State not aware that one in three families in Wales are now living below the poverty line? Is he further aware that 300,000 people are living on supplementary benefit? That is double the number six years ago. Is he not aware that south-east Wales, where there is very high unemployment, is the worst-off area? Has he no conscience about the suffering which he and his Government are inflicting on people in Wales?

I am delighted that the policies that we have been pursuing have created a fall in unemployment over the last month of over 6,000 and a fall since October last year of 8,600. The seasonally adjusted unemployment figures for Wales have fallen in six out of the last seven months, the only exception being in May, when the figure rose by exactly 100.

In view of last Thursday's announcement of a welcome fall in unemployment, may I urge my right hon. Friend to ignore the calls from the Opposition for higher unemployment and to continue to pursue policies for employment, which, plainly, the representatives of the Left-wing parties do not care about?

I agree. It is quite extraordinary that when we at last begin to see a fall in unemployment, instead of that being welcomed by the Opposition they seem to be miserable about it.

May I remind the right hon. Gentleman that in little more than a year we have lost 5,000 coal jobs in the south Wales coalfield? The proposed closure of the Cwm pit has caused great bitterness. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that £500 million worth of coking coal was imported in the first nine months of this year? That is something like 5 million tonnes, much of it within 6 miles of the proposed new Margam mine. Does the right hon. Gentleman not agree that the new Margam mine is of strategic importance to the coalfield? In his complacent remarks to my right hon. and hon. Friends, does he forget the deteriorating social conditions in the mining communities? Is he forgetting the high rate of male unemployment, and does he not realise that there are declining prospects for school leavers? Over the last seven years he has shown disinterest in their fate.

In response to the hon. Gentleman's varied questions, there are three points to be made. First, against the background of those coal closures, the achievement of a reduction of more than 8,600 in the number of unemployed in the same period is even more remarkable. Secondly, I, too, entirely understand the desire to get ahead with the Margam project, if that proves possible, but we still have not had formal proposals from the NCB. Discussions on that project continue. Thirdly, in the light of what the hon. Gentleman said about the coal areas, I hope that he will particularly welcome today's news that AB Electronics, a company which now employs more than 3,000 people in Wales, is to replace its two factories in the Rhondda with a new project at Williamstown, which will create about 200 additional jobs in the area.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he is satisfied with the present state of the dairy industry in Wales; and if he will make a statement.

As I told the conferences of the farmers' unions in Aberystwyth earlier this month, there is still a gross over-supply of milk and milk products in Europe, despite the measures taken in 1984. The European Commission has recently produced a package of measures designed to reduce this surplus production and these are being considered by the Council of Ministers at the present time.

I am sure that the Secretary of State is aware that many dairy producers in Dyfed are selling their milk quotas in an attempt to solve their immediate cash flow problems. Moreover, he will be aware that many of those quotas are being sold over the border, to Cheshire and Devon. What advice can the right hon. Gentleman give the dairy farmers of Wales in the short term, and what plans has he to help them in the long term?

Of course I understand the concern of dairy farmers, many of whom are in my constituency, but we have no evidence at present that there is a net loss of quota out of Wales. At the time of those Aberystwyth conferences I looked at the figures, but I could not find any such evidence. The proposals are before the Council of Ministers this week, so I particularly understand the concern felt. We must closely watch how the negotiations go, but I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will feel it right that the Government should oppose the changes in the formula B arrangements put by the Commission, which would be particularly damaging to our producers.

Will the Secretary of State tell us and the Welsh people what is his role as the Agriculture Minister for Wales? Why does he continually refuse to be involved in these essential EC negotiations himself?

I have often given the House the answer, but I shall repeat it. Of course I play a full and complete role in considering policy with Ministers and in putting the case for Wales. If the hon. Gentleman had been at the conferences to which I referred he would have heard that I put that case forcefully to Commissioner Andriessen. I strongly believe that negotiations in Europe are best conducted on a United Kingdom basis. Far from strengthening the Welsh case, it would weaken it if we sought to fragment the presentation of the British case.

As cheese production in 13ritain is very small compared with that in France and other parts of Europe, should we not consider considerably expanding cheese production in Britain and, indeed, in Wales, as well as the expansion of milk products generally, which are again to be found on a much larger scale in Europe?

I am glad to say that such expansion has been taking place and that there have been considerable successes in increasing production as my hon. Friend suggests. However, I fear that the scale of the problem of surpluses confronting us is much greater than any such increases could hope to deal with.

Jones asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the total of unemployed in Wales, including the number of school leavers, and the number of long-term unemployed; and what increases these represent, numerically and in percentage terms over October 1979.

The seasonally adjusted number of unemployed claimants in Wales was 169,000 in October 1986 and 68,300 in October 1979, an increase of 100,700 or 147–4 per cent. Figures for the long-term unemployed and school leavers are not available on a comparable basis.

May I remind the Secretary of State that with 174,000 jobless Welsh people the cost to Britain is about £1,131 million a year, which is a weekly cost of £21 million? Does he realise that there are 45,000 people on special programmes and that work-test questions will massage downwards the unemployment figures by another 1,000? Has he taken into account as well that already in Wales 3,000 people are on supplementary benefit? Is not the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer an inadequate and late response to the challenge of mass unemployment in Wales, and will he accept that in reality it is an election ploy? We believe that over the past seven years the Secretary of State has shown a pitiless disinterest in our people.

There are about 49,400 people under special measures, not 45,000. I take pride in the success and effectiveness of the special measures as a sign of the Government's concern and effective action. The measures that we have been pursuing—I speak of the past, not of measures recently announced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer—are one of the reasons why the seasonally adjusted unemployment figures, the subject of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, have fallen in six out of the past seven months.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Government's commitment and that of Conservative Members has been shown by the great success of the job clubs scheme and the Restart programme?

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. I hope that we can continue to develop those schemes.

Would the Secretary of State like to reconsider what seemed to be a most ill-considered answer that he gave me a minute or two ago? He talked as if cutting regional aid had increased the number of jobs. Will he tell us what was the cut and what has been the increase in the number of jobs?

I am saying that regional aid is now much more effectively directed, and that it is working well is shown by the fact that the Welsh share of total United Kingdom unemployment continues steadily to decline. I note that from January to October this year there have been 168 applications for selective financial assistance, compared with 135 in the same period last year, and that 113 of the offers have been accepted. I note also that £33 million of assistance has been directed selectively in the right direction to create more than 4,500 new jobs.

Will the Secretary of State confirm that, unlike in England, the number of employees in employment in Wales is now fewer than in 1979? Does that not show the failure of Government policy for Wales?

No. The latest employment figures extend only to about the spring for the self-employed and we wait to have more recent figures. The available figures show the scale of the inherited problems of the decline of the old basic industries. It is encouraging that, despite the scale of these problems and the recent pit closures, the relative position of Wales to the rest of the United Kingdom is improving and unemployment is falling. Surely the hon. Gentleman welcomes that fact.

Apart from the welcome change in the unemployment figures, are we not entitled to some cautious and modest optimism, given the increase in the number of notified vacancies?

There has been an increase in the number of vacancies. The number of vacancies at jobcentres is 14,618, which is 4,600 up on the same month last year. That is another sign of the improvement which I have been describing to the House, which Opposition Members do not wish to hear about.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what steps he plans to take in Wales to implement Government proposals concerning acquired immune deficiency syndrome.

In September my right hon. Friend announced support for the establishment of the Welsh AIDS campaign. In addition, we are participating fully in the national advertising campaign, including the delivery of a leaflet to every home, and will be fully involved in further Government action.

Why have the Government dallied and dithered over what to do about this difficult problem? The debate nationally has centred on looking for scapegoats. First, the fault was seen to lie with black people in Africa, and it then moved to homosexuals. Can the Minister give the House an assurance that the Government's campaign will not be directed at young people so that they will be seen as the scapegoats? Instead, will the Government ensure that the campaign is directed at everyone and not any particular group in the community?

The Government's campaign will be directed specifically at those who are most vulnerable.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what funds he has made available for cervical cancer screening in the current financial year.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what steps he proposes to improve the cervical cytology service in Wales.

Some £400,000 per annum has been allocated for use by district health authorities to implement the recommendations of the joint Welsh Office—NHS working party.

I am sure that both sides of the House will welcome that dramatic increase in spending. Can my hon. Friend confirm that the Welsh Office funding will be sufficient for local health authorities to set up this service?

Yes, I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. The announcement made on 28 October enabled the Welsh Office to meet in full the capital bids of the district health authorities, and, for future years, to contribute towards the running costs of the service.

Will the family practitioner service be able to receive funding for computer services?

In addition to the £400,000 per annum that has been allocated to the district health authorities, the Welsh Office is bearing the capital costs of providing computer facilities for family practitioner committees. Those facilities will handle the call and recall systems for cervical cancer screening. More than £750,000 is being provided for computerisation over the three years to 1987–88.

I declare an interest as parliamentary adviser to the Institute of Medical Laboratory Scientists. Will the hon. Gentlemen bear in mind that the most important factor in screening for cervical cytology is the employment of adequate numbers of scientists to examine the specimens and slides involved? Will he make sure that adequate finance is available to ensure that a sufficient number of technicians is available to do that work?

We believe that adequate resources are available, and we continue to keep the position under review. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that the waiting time for results is now down to an average 24 days throughout Wales.

My information is that the number of bids is equal to four times the amount of money available for cervical cancer screening. Is the hon Gentleman aware that laboratory workers are having to skimp on the time that they spend studying smears? Instead of looking at a slide for 10 minutes, as they are supposed to do, they study only a small section of it in many cases because of the pressure of work. Can the hon. Gentleman assure all women who might be at risk, or who are applying for tests, that he has no fear about quality control and that there are adequate resources available?

The additional funding that we have announced is precisely designed to improve the existing service. I am sure that the hon. Lady will welcome that. I am not entirely sure where she gets her figures from, but I can confirm that the capital bids put forward by family practitioner committees have been met in full.

Can the Minister tell us by what date a fully computerised system of recall will be operating in Wales?

That depends on the family practitioner committees. Clwyd, Dyfed, Gwent, Powys and South Glamorgan are already computerised. The completion of a computerised system for Mid and West Glamorgan is expected in 1986–87, with Gwynedd shortly after that.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he has any plans to improve access from the A55 to the town of Prestatyn; and if he will make a statement.

No, Sir. This is a matter for the local highway authority.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the understandable concern of Rhuddlan borough council, 26 per cent. of whose rate revenue is generated by tourism, that the improvement to the A55; which is the responsibility of the Welsh Office, will encourage tourist traffic to travel further westwards? Will he impress on Clwyd county council the need for urgency in providing easier access to Prestatyn, by bringing forward the A5151 Dyserth bypass scheme?

I understand that the county council is discussing with the Rhuddlan borough council the issue of improved access in Rhyl and Prestatyn. At one of its recent meetings the issue of bypasses of Rhuddlan and Dyserth was discussed. I appreciate my hon. Friend's concern about the future of tourism in that area. I am sure that the county council will note what he has said.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what are the latest unadjusted figures for unemployment in (a) Newport, (b) Gwent and (c) Wales; what were the equivalent figures in May 1979; and what has been the percentage increase in each case.

On 9 October 1986 the total numbers of unemployed claimants in the Newport travel-to-work area, Gwent and Wales were 12,833, 28,863 and 174,105 respectively. Unadjusted figures for 1979 are not available on a comparable basis.

Is the Secretary of State satisfied that these figures are correct, bearing in mind the acknowledged errors that have taken place in recent months in respect of both Newport constituencies and, I understand, of his own constituency of Pembroke? Will he take into account, too, the observations of Gwent county council that there have been no fewer than 17 changes since 1979 in the way the jobless statistics have been compiled? Will the Government recognise at last that the fiddling of statistics does not create new jobs?

I understand from the Department of Employment, which produces the statistics, that the statistics for Newport as a whole were correct, but that there was some error in the distribution between the two constituencies. I know of no error concerning my own constituency. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will particularly welcome the recent decision by KME—Kyushu Matsushita Electric—to establish a new plant to make electric typewriters and printers in the Newport area, which will initially produce about 100 jobs, rising to over 300 jobs—another example of the positive developments that are now taking place everywhere in Wales.

As Labour Members seem to think that many of the improvements in the figures are due to new forms of statistical information, will my right hon. Friend give details of new projects which may explain some of the recent demand for jobs?

As a result of the system of selective financial assistance, which has been derided by Labour Members, there was an announcement only this morning of a new holiday airline in my hon. Friend's constituency, Inter European Airways, which is being set up to operate from Cardiff Rhoose airport. This project will provide 145 new jobs and is a welcome development.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how much additional expenditure in 1987–88 on roads is earmarked for Wales.

asked the Secretary of Sta.te for Wales what changes have taken place in the expenditure plans of his Department following the autumn statement of his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 6 November; and if he will make a statement.

I refer the hon. Gentlemen to table 2.3 of the autumn statement 1986. Within my public expenditure block I shall be deciding the allocation of provision to particular services and projects over the next few weeks. Announcements will be made in the normal way.

When will the Secretary of State bring forward proposals for a major improvement in roads in north and south Wales, providing a proper link between those areas, which is most important, and improvements to the A470 at Merthyr Tydfil at Felinfach in my constituency, where the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Thomas) recently experienced how unsafe it was, and also between Builth Wells arid Newbridge on Wye on the A470?

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that we are improving, and have already made substantial improvements to, the north-south route. He referred to the road to Merthyr. There is obviously another major improvement to be made past Merthyr. All the details are clearly set out in the paper "Roads in Wales", which we have issued and which spells out the major road construction programme that we are undertaking in the Principality.

Will the Secretary of State explain to the House and to Wales his role in public expenditure rounds? It is clear that he has to receive what is handed down to him from the Treasury. Does he play any role at all in putting in bids related to the needs of Wales?

I note that it is apparently just my role, to accept what is handed down. I am bound to say that it did not seem quite like that during the public expenditure round, when, I can assure the hon. Gentleman, I vigorously advanced the needs of Wales. If the hon. Gentleman looks at the autumn statement he will see that Wales obtained a substantial increase of 10 per cent. over the plans for 1986–87. That is a satisfactory increase.

The right hon. Gentleman gives complacent replies. The Chancellor of the Exchequer's allocation to Wales cannot repair the damage of seven savage years. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that his own Government's report to Brussels said that massive investment was required in the social infrastructure of Wales if we were to get new industries to come to us? For example, what will he do constructively for the island of Anglesey, where unemployment increased by 5 per cent. last year and where male unemployment now exceeds 27 per cent.?

Our submission to Brussels referred also to massive Government assistance to replace jobs lost in the industrial areas and major attempts to restructure Welsh industry. If I had the time and you would allow me, Mr. Speaker, I should love to read the long list of projects undertaken by the Government. We have increased, and are increasing, capital expenditure in Wales, unlike the hon. Gentleman's Government, who slashed capital expenditure after having had to run cap in hand to the 1MF.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster when he next expects to visit the County Palatine.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster if he has any plans to visit the County Palatine.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster when he next intends to visit the County Palatine.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster when he next plans to visit the County Palatine.

Currently, my next visit to the County Palatine is planned for the end of March, but I hope to make a further visit earlier in the new year.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that interesting answer. Has he noticed that even in the selection of candidates the Labour leadership cannot trust the local party to choose its own member and that the newest Member of the House—

Order. Is this question to do with the visit to the County Palatine?

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Then the hon. Member should put the question in order.

I am asking the Chancellor to notice these things in his job, as he should do. I am asking whether he has noticed what goes on in the County Palatine, which is his responsibility. Surely it is my right, Mr. Speaker, to ask him that. I should like further to ask him whether he thinks that that unacceptable face of Socialism is acceptable to people. That surely has to be his responsibility, Sir.

I hope that my hon. Friend does not expect me to be in any way partisan about these matters. During my last visit to the County Palatine a number of people asked me why the Leader of the Opposition should be so upset with the local Labour party for selecting Mr. Leslie Huckfield as its condidate. After all, Mr. Huckfield was a Labour Minister at about the time the right hon. Gentleman was refusing to support the last Government. Of course, the right hon. Gentleman enthusiastically supports the membership in this House of the hon. Members for Coventry, South-East (Mr. Nellist) and for Liverpool, Broadgreen (Mr. Fields), not to mention the candidatures of Mr. Bernie Grant and Miss Dianne Abbot. I really do not know what the fuss was about.

When my right hon. Friend nexts visits the County Palatine, will he follow up the speech that he made during his last visit and draw a parallel with what is going on in the Labour party, not only in the County Palatine, but on the other side of the Pennines in Humberside? My right hon. Friend will notice, if he makes a similar comparison with the County Palatine, that the Labour party in Humberside, especially in Hull, is the type of Labour party that one sees in the County Palatine. Will my right hon. Friend draw that point to the attention of the people in the County Palatine when he next visits it?

People know those things reasonably well. On 15 November, in the Financial Times, Mr. Keith Robinson, director of Merseyside chamber of commerce and industry, said:

"The view of much of the business community is that more damage has been done to our image by the Labour leaders of the local authority in just three years than by decades of industrial relations problems."

During my right hon. Friend's next visit, which I am glad he has announced he will make in the near future, will he take the opporunity to emphasise to the inhabitants of the County Palatine the dangers that would lie if they were to entrust to local government in that part of the country the sort of rule that we have recently seen with its devastating effects on employment and prosperity in that area? What solution will my right hon. Friend offer in that connection to the people of the County Palatine?

The people of that area are well aware of these dangers. That is why the Leader of the Opposition was unable to trust his local Labour party to select a candidate in the recent by-election. As to the advice that I should give, perhaps I should consult my right hon. Friend the chairman of the Conservative party, who will no doubt offer characteristically robust partisan advice.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster when he last made a ministerial broacast; and if he will make a statement.

Never and no.

Considering the state of the Tory party under the right hon. Gentleman's chairmanship, that is understandable. If he were to make such a broadcast, how could he explain that his bullying attacks on the BBC apparently found no support at a recent meeting of the Conservative Home Affairs Committee, and certainly not from the public at large? Why does the right hon. Gentleman not admit that his bullying attacks on the BBC were not concerned with how the Libyan raids were reported, but that he was attempting to soften up and intimidate the broadcasting authorities in the pre-election period?

What the hon. Gentleman does not understand is that it was not the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster who made the complaint to the BBC. It was the chairman of the Conservative party. From my reading of the letters from the chairman of the Conservative party, I understand that he was not bullying or softening up the BBC, but that he was asking it to maintain the standards which it is required to maintain under the charter, the licence and the agreement between the BBC and Her Majesty's Government.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: I shall take it afterwards.

When the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster gives a ministerial broadcast, will he explain why he made charges against the BBC regarding Libya but did not make any charges against the "World in Action" programme that specifically named him and said that Abdul Shamji had used his name and the Prime Minister's name to obtain money from Johnson Matthey bank? He could not pay it back and as a result has been described as a crook by one of the judges. If he has made no complaint about the "World in Action" programme, and as he has not sued it, can we assume that everything that came out on that programme is correct?

The hon. Gentleman would not be wise to make that assumption. Just because someone lays a trail of slime, in the way the hon. Gentleman normally does, a complaint to the BBC is not required.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

I will take it afterwards. I always take points of order arising out of questions after questions.

asked the right hon. Member for Taunton, answering in respect of the Public Accounts Commission, if he will make a statement about the Commission's current work load.

The Commission met eight times in 1984, five times in 1985 and three times so far in the current year. In carrying out the statutory responsibilities laid upon us by the House, I do not think that we find ourselves either over or under-employed.

Has there been any trend suggesting an increase in the useful inquiries relating to value for money?

My hon. Friend has raised an important point. I am happy to confirm that the third report of the Commission endorses the aim of the Comptroller and Auditor General to devote a larger proportion of the resources available to him to economy, effectiveness and efficiency, that is to say, value-for-money audits. There have been 80 such reports since 1984, which have invariably been followed up by the Public Accounts Committee under the distinguished leadership of the right hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Sheldon).

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Comptroller and Auditor General and his staff are doing a first-rate job in helping the House to secure value for money in public expenditure? If he does agree, does he think that it is about time the Comptroller's salary was increased to the same level as that of the Comptroller of Audit and the head of the Government Accountancy Service, in recognition of the work that he does for the House?

I am obliged to my hon. Friend for the first part of his question. I am sure that the House is deeply appreciative of the work done for us, as guardians of the public purse, by the Comptroller and Auditor General and the devoted staff of the National Audit Office. It is obviously important to ensure that the salaries paid to these people keep pace with what is available in the private sector. Otherwise, the National Audit Office cannot recruit and retain the right quality of staff. That is a matter on which the Commission has already reported to the House. I am sorry that the Government have not yet seen fit to accept the recommendations of the Commission. I hope, in the presence of the Leader of the House, that that is a matter that will be looked at again.

asked the right hon. Member for Taunton, answering in respect of the Public Accounts Commission, whether he will make a statement on the cost to public funds of the new headquarters of the National Audit Office; and what was the budget for this expenditure appoved by the Public Accounts Commission.

The Commission has approved the sum of £24·6 million for the purchase and refurbishment of the new National Audit Office headquarters. Although some accounts have still to be settled, the Comptroller and Auditor General expects to contain final expenditure within that budget.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Does he agree that, above all, the Comptroller and Auditor General, as Parliament's watchdog on spending, and a very good one at that, must keep to his own budget to set a good example to other Government Departments?

I agree with what my hon. Friend has said. As a member of the Public Accounts Committee he will undoubtedly have observed that the proposal for a new headquarters for the National Audit Office is something about which the Commission felt strongly. In the event, we have been able to provide it at a rental significantly less than the norm for the area—only 37 per cent. of the normal rent for the area. I am satisfied that that represents good value for money. I am also satisfied, and so is the Commission, that the work of the National Audit Office henceforward is likely to be more efficient than in the past, because we have brought together no fewer than 30 offices into a single location. That must make for effectiveness.

In the work of the Public Accounts Commission and the National Audit Office on Government spending, is any regard given to the work load of Departments and, in particular, of the Ministers who control the Departments? For example, has an analysis been done of the hours worked each week by the Minister occupying the position of the Duchy of Lancaster, since he seems to have so much time on his hands that, instead of controlling the work of that Department, he spends the majority of his time trying to gag the BBC?

That is more a matter for the Public Accounts Committee, if not the Prime Minister, than for me. However, in general, the hon. Gentleman has made a significant point. It struck me, as it must have struck many right hon. and hon. Members over a long period of time, that we impose such a heavy burden of day-to-day work on Ministers that it is difficult for them to attend to the strategic matters to which they should give a higher proportion of their attention.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will bring forward proposals for the modernisation of the annunciator system in the House of Commons; and if he will make a statement.

The Property Services Agency is in the process of commissioning a study of the existing cabling in the Palace of Westminster. This will assess the likely future cost and reliability of the annunciator system. The results of the study should be available to the Services Committee by about Easter next year.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. However, does he not agree that Easter 1987 is a long way off and that the annunciator system in question is in urgent need of modernisation? The system needs to be brought into the computer age, so that it has the ability to update. That will prevent hon. Members such as myself being caught out if we happen to be in the Library, for example. On one occasion certain amendments to the Education Bill were moving faster than the annunciator system, with the result that the annunciator was running eight minutes behind my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science.

I recollect the robust view taken by my hon. Friend on the replacement of Members' telephones and its relevance to public expenditure. I know that he will wish the same standards broadly to be applied to annunciators. However, the difficulty that he encountered could be considered as part of the survey.

Will the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that the people doing the survey will consider the possibility of making a sound track from the Chamber available, through the annunciators, to Members' rooms, to increase our efficiency?

I am not clear whether that is in the terms of reference, but I shall draw the agency's attention to the suggestion, which I know the hon. Gentleman, with his customary fairness, will agree was not universally approved.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he has any plans to review the present facilities for members of the public to have access to copies of House of Commons publications.

The plans for the new parliamentary building include provision for a parliamentary bookshop accessible to the general public. I have no other plans to review or modify existing arrangements, which are primarily the responsibility of Her Majesty's Stationery Office.

Does my right hon. Friend realise how frustrating it is to members of the public not to be able to obtain copies of House of Commons documents referred to in the press? Is he aware, for example, that during the recess the Select Committee on Education, Science and Arts published an important report as the outcome of its inquiry into primary education, and I received representations from teachers in various parts of the country who had the utmost difficulty in getting hold of copies of that report? Would it not be possible for bookshops and newsagents to have, on a sale or return basis, copies of documents of that sort so that members of the general public could easily have access to them?

Clearly, there was a misjudgment of demand in respect of the education document to which my hon. Friend referred. I shall, of course, take note of what he has said and refer it to the Stationery Office, which has primary responsibility in those matters.

Does the Leader of the House agree that the prices of House of Commons documents and HMSO documents are now so high that they effectively prevent many members of the public from being able to purchase them? Does not democracy demand that we make those documents available at prices that people can afford to pay?

Already about £4 million is spent annually in subsidising the cost of the Official Report and certain related documents. If there is a matter that gives rise to great concern, the hon. Gentleman might inquire exactly what makes for the present cost structure.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if he will take steps to increase the time devoted to questions to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.

No, Sir.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that it is quite scandalous that the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster should get a very substantial salary out of the taxpayers' pocket, and yet spend most of his time harrying and bullying the BBC as chairman of the Tory party? Does the right hon. Gentleman not think it absurd that, in the light of those squalid activities, we are allowed only five minutes to question the Chancellor on those activities, with considerable periods elapsing in between each Question Time?

Almost certainly the hon. Gentleman has a wholly mistaken idea of what arises on public funds with regard to the pay of the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. In any case, my right hon. Friend is worth every conceivable centime of it. I come to the point of greater substance, which has some relevance to myself, which is the amount of time allowed for questions to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. That is not the consequence of a Government decision. The matter is decided through the usual channels. However, I agree that recently the Church Commissioners had their time extended and I can think of no more noble company for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor.

May I tentatively ask my right hon. Friend to reconsider his answer, because only last Friday we read that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster visited Merseyside business men and he must on that occasion have been questioned closely about whether a levy would be introduced for training? My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster would be able from the Dispatch Box to clarify whether it was the fear of business men that the shadow spokesman for employment was telling the truth, or whether it was the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Sparkbrook (Mr. Hattersley) who was telling the truth. We must want to know the answer.

Conundrums of that character would require days rather than minutes of the Chancellor's time. Those are matters that are determined through the usual channels, and I have no doubt that if there is real and substantial anxiety on that point we shall know more about it.

Will the Leader of the House confirm that the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster in that role receives nothing, and will he therefore confirm what he said a few moments ago in his role as Leader of the House that he thinks that what the Chancellor receives is what the Chancellor is worth?

There is no way of putting worth on the value and activities of my right hon. Friend.

asked the Lord Privy Seal when the Services Committee last discussed maintenance and restoration work on the Palace of Westminster.

Maintenance and restoration work on the Palace of Westminster are the responsibility of the Property Services Agency. There is regular contact between the relevant Ministers and the authorities of both Houses, including representatives of the Services Committee, on the progress of the work and the allocation of the resources that are available.

In view of that regular contact, will the Leader of the House please tell us how long it will be before the work is finished and how much it will cost? Will he please congratulate those responsible so far on the excellence of the work that has been done?

I shall certainly convey to those who are concerned with the work the hon. and learned Gentleman's approbation, and I am sure that the House will concur in that. The exterior of the Palace has been immensely enhanced by that work. I cannot answer the hon. and learned Gentleman's other points, but I shall certainly bear in mind his anxiety that the work should proceed as quickly as possible. However, I must tell him that all these matters are questions of priority and I have been under understandable pressure that the major concern should be the completion of phase one, of extending the accommodation of the House.

Will my right hon. Friend accept that for many years the House has allowed the fabric of this building to fall further and further into disrepair? It was not until my right hon. Friend the Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine) became Secretary of State that proper priority was given to the work to which the hon. arid learned Member for Leicester, West (Mr. Janner) has just referred. As the junior Minister who had responsibility, I join him in saying how well that work is being done. I hope that funds will be provided to finish the work and that this will be given priority over any extension of offices, because many of us think that that may not be necessary quite so quickly.

I take note of what my hon. Friend has said, but once we begin assessing the comparative urgency of either fabric or offices, there will be a lively debate.

As many of us now face another parliamentary year in the darkness, dampness and dankness of the Cloisters, will the Leader of the House consider restoring some of the offices not used by Members of Parliament to Members of Parliament?

I am very happy to consider whatever detailed points the hon. Gentleman would like to make available to me.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

There are two private notice questions o come and I usually take points of order on Question Time afterwards.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, arising out of questions.

I shall take the private notice questions first.