To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received in opposition to the closure proposed for 1988–89 of the Children's ear, nose and throat hospital, Ely, Cardiff; and what assessment has been made of the suitability of alternative medical facilities offered at the University hospital of Wales.

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales wishes me to apologise for his absence from the House on an important inward investment mission overseas.

Does the Minister agree that the act of medical vandalism that is being contemplated by South Glamorgan health authority will lower the standard of hospital services by removing the only specialist children's hospital in Wales? Since about 40 per cent. of its patients come from outside South Glamorgan, if Welsh Office Ministers cannot take responsibility for the quality of hospital services in such regional specialty hospitals, who can?

The proposal has yet to be approved by the health authority. If there is continuing disagreement, it must come to my right hon. Friend for a decision. In those circumstances, I can make no comment at this stage.

Could the matter be examined in another way? Is my hon. Friend aware that the over-concentration in the University hospital has led to a tremendous shortage of building space and parking space, not only for relatives visiting patients, but for members of staff? Will the over-concentration continue, or will wiser counsels prevail?

I am not sure about wiser counsels, but my hon. Friend makes a good point. The health authority will have considered that issue when examining alternative accommodation at the University hospital. If the matter came before my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, I imagine that he would consider it, too.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received from farmers in Wales concerning the disturbance caused to livestock in Wales by low-flying aircraft.

None. Complaints would normally be made direct to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence.

Will the Minister make urgent representations to the Secretary of State for Defence to ban all low flying at 100 ft in Wales, as it is causing great suffering to people and animals? Will he press the point that farmers whose beef cows have aborted, which frequently happens as a result of low flying, should be fully compensated to the equivalent price of a nine-month-old suckle cow?

Any claims for compensation arising from damage alleged to have been caused by aircraft activities should be submitted to the Ministry of Defence claims commission. The claims procedure has been agreed between the claims commission of the MOD, the agriculture departments and the farming unions. I cannot hold out any promise of banning low-flying aircraft, since that form of training is, of course, vital.

Of course, no one likes aircraft screaming over his head, but is it not some consolation to be able to look up and see that they do not carry red stars under their wings?

My hon. Friend is quite right. Whenever people complain about low-flying aircraft to me, I ask the question, "Were they ours?"

Will the Minister accept that at least one fifth of these aircraft are not ours—unless one regards the United States as part of his Department? Will he, therefore, take seriously the number of complaints from the farming community, in view of the information given to me by the Minister of Defence about the increased number of flights and the noise of aircraft? Will he support the call for a review of low-flying procedure, as it is 10 years since we last reviewed it?

I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence is well aware of the views of farmers and the hon. Gentleman on low-flying aircraft.

Does the Minister appreciate that not only livestock but people are deeply disturbed by these supersonic sorties above their homes? There have been terrible accidents, and pilots, aircrew and valuable jet planes have been lost. Is it not time for the Government to take heed of the multitude of protests that they have recieved and call a halt to these uncivilised exercises?

The Welsh Office is responsible for many things, but defence is not one of them. These questions should be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects hospital waiting lists in Gwent to fall.

In-patient waiting lists in Gwent fell from 8,842 to 7,705 between March 1986 and March 1987. The number of in-patients treated increased by 32·4 per cent. between 1979 and 1986. Much remains to be done, and Gwent health authority is actively working on the problem in conjunction with the Welsh Office.

The people of Gwent will give little thanks for that rather complacent reply. One out of six is not good enough. In the other categories of waiting lists in Gwent, there has been an increase in those of urgent cases; in urgent cases waiting for more than a month; and in non-urgent cases waiting for more than a year. The total number of out-patients who are waiting has increased, as has that of out-patients waiting for more than three months. That follows a special effort by the Welsh Office to reduce waiting lists to acceptable levels.

The system under which the area health authorities have operated for their capital funding has been the same for all since 1984. Gwent has been well funded. Incidentally, it is worth pointing out that median waiting times for in-patients in Wales have fallen from 47 days to 42 days under this Government. The waiting list for in-patients in Gwent has fallen by more than 1,100 to March of this year.

Does the Minister realise that the people of Wales, as well as the people of Gwent, are concerned about the length of waiting lists? As the Minister responsible for health in Wales, is he proud that we now have the lowest number of hospital beds since the Health Service was set up in 1948, that we have fewer beds in relation to population than Scotland or Northern Ireland, and that we have longer waiting lists than Scotland or Northern Ireland? In those circumstances, does it make sense that, in the past 18 months, we have lost 700 hospital beds in Wales, several hospitals are now under threat of closure and our already overstretched health authorities face £6 million of cuts by the end of the year?

Order. May I tell the Front Bench that that question has now been asked, but I denied a question to the hon. Member for Wrexham (Dr. Marek) because I thought that he might deal with wider issues.

The right hon. Member for Swansea, West (Mr. Williams), who went on at great length, overlooked the fact that it is a matter not of having beds available, but of how many patients one treats. It is worth pointing out that when he was a Minister the number of in-patient places in Wales rose by 3 per cent., but under this Government the number has risen by 24 per cent. or 84,000 every year. Out-patient treatment fell by 3 per cent. under the previous Labour Administration, but has risen by 18 per cent. under this Government.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received about the inclusion of Welsh in the core curriculum.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received concerning his proposals for a core curriculum in Wales; and when he hopes to respond to those representations.

We have received a total of 203 representations that refer to the position of Welsh within the national curriculum. Of those, 150 favour the inclusion of Welsh as a core or foundation subject throughout Wales. I expect to publish soon a statement of policy on the national curriculum in Wales, which will embody our response to the consultation exercise.

My hon. Friend will be aware that, as a Welshman who learnt Welsh as an adult, I have the interests of the Welsh language at heart. Will he assure me that he will take into account the diversity of Wales and the impossibility of forcing Welsh on the children of Gwent? Circumstances vary within Wales, and a policy of forcing Welsh on people will not be in the best interests of the Welsh language.

I fully appreciate my hon. Friend's considerable interest in the promotion of the language and the fact that he has written a book about it. He is right. There is considerable diversity in knowledge of the language throughout Wales. Some 20 per cent. of our children are taught in Welsh and 80 per cent. are not. Nevertheless, we believe that Welsh should have its place in the curriculum. I believe that we have found the right answer in making it part of the core curriculum for those who are taught in Welsh, and part of the general curriculum for others.

Will the Minister now answer my question, is was a general question about the core curriculum, the number of representations that have been made to him, and what response he expects to make? My question is not about Welsh in the core curriculum, but about the core curriculum in general. Does he accept that the notion of a core curriculum divided into subjects, whether core or foundation, is completely outdated and has no relevance to the reality of pupils' learning experiences? Does the Minister further accept that his Department needs to take a transcurricular approach on language, scientific, environmental and social issues at primary and early secondary level? Such an approach is much more relevant to school pupils than is a curriculum based on the notion of subjects.

I do not think that what we have said about the core curriculum and the curriculum in general debars transcurricular teaching.

What proposals does my hon. Friend have in mind in the core curriculum for religious education and the daily act of worship?

My hon. Friend will know that religious education is, of course, a statutory requirement under the Education Act 1944, and our proposals do not change that. We believe that religious education is vital to the spiritual development of our children. With regard to the collective act of worship, we trust that there will be flexibility in the timing so that it can take place at different times if necessary.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the fact that the Minister did not answer question 14, will you decouple it from question 4 and make sure that an answer is given when we come to it?

The Minister chooses what answer he gives. I remind the House that question 14 is about the curriculum in Wales, and goes wider than question 4.

Taking into account the diversity of Wales, does the Minister agree that, in Dyfed and Gwynedd, Welsh should have almost as important a place in the curriculum as English, and that the problem of the place of the Welsh language in the core curriculum highlights the wrong thinking behind the core curriculum? Does he agree that those decisions are far better left to the individual local authority?

We intend to consult the local education authorities. I remind the hon. Gentleman that I said that where Welsh is the medium of teaching it will he included in the core curriculum. We shall set up a subject group to deal with Welsh in the curriculum, and I very much hope that that group will be able to devise courses and set levels of learning and attainment that will satisfy all people in Wales.

Would it not be a tragic misuse of finite educational resources to have a declining language in the core curriculum? Would it not be much more appropriate for that language to be allowed as an option in a flexible way during the time outside the core curriculum, so that it may have its proper place?

I have made the position very clear. It is that the 80 per cent. of children in Wales who are not taught through the medium of Welsh will have Welsh as part of their curriculum. Of course, there will be different levels of attainment. The consultation exercise revealed considerable support for our proposals for Wales.

The Minister may wish to have Welsh in the core curriculum, but I am not sure, from his answers, about his enthusiasm for the teaching of Welsh outside the Welsh-medium schools. Will the Minister give us an assurance that the Welsh language will be given its proper place in teaching outside the Welsh-medium schools? If the language is to develop and get back to the status that Opposition Members would like to see it have, it must develop in the English-speaking areas, or we shall land in the barbaric state that some Conservative Members would like to see.

I assure the hon. Member that Welsh will have its place in the curriculum in Wales. We are seeking to meet the diversity of practice in Welsh-speaking schools and the diversity of need for the language.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what steps he is taking to ensure the future security and success of enterprise agencies in Wales, particularly the Cardiff and Vale enterprise.

The success of enterprise agencies in Wales is demonstrated by the 16,000 jobs in small businesses that they have helped to create. The agencies, including Cardiff and Vale enterprise, have benefited from substantial central funding, which continues to be available under the new arrangements introduced last year.

I am sure that the Minister is aware of reports that the Government intend to put a substantial amount of money into such agencies and that it will be matched by a similar amount from the large banks. Presumably the banks will do that with the intention of obtaining a write-off facility on their contributions. Can the Minister tell us what he knows about that? Is he aware of the report that none of this money will go to Wales? If that is the case, what will the Minister and his colleagues do about that? Does he share the fears of some of us that it might lead to a diminution of the existing secondments by banks, which have made a tremendous contribution to enterprise agencies? In view of the Minister's statement that these agencies are very cost effective in the creation of jobs, does he agree that they provide an ideal model for partnership between local government and private enterprise in our areas?

I do, indeed, agree that they are models, not just for local government, but for private industry. Under the new system, local enterprise agencies can receive a grant for five years up to a maximum of £25,000 per annum in the first two years, declining to £10,000 in the fifth year. The grants are conditional on the local enterprise agency producing a satisfactory three-year business plan, a five-year financial strategy aimed at self-sufficiency by year six, and matching £1 for £1 private sector contributions—and of course that is not only banks. Similar but less generous arrangements apply to English local enterprise agencies. In addition to core funding, the Welsh Development Agency will grant up to £17,500 per annum per agency for special projects.

Does my hon. Friend agree that as the 15 local enterprise agencies in Wales have assisted in the creation of 16,000 jobs at a very good cost-per-job ratio, it is important that, as his officials have advised, the private sector should become far more substantially involved than hitherto in the local enterprise agencies? Can he tell us what progress has been made in achieving that aim, in more closely monitoring the successes and failures of the local enterprise agencies, and in organising an annual conference in Wales at which the agencies can meet and exchange information and experiences?

I am sure that the local enterprise agencies will have heard my hon. Friend's suggestion. It sounds to me an excellent one. We want to see more private sector involvement in financing and the secondment of more staff—a point that my hon. Friend made some time ago. The private sector connection varies markedly among the different agencies throughout Wales.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what are the latest unadjusted figures for unemployment in (a) Newport, (b) Gwent and (c) Wales; and if he will give the equivalent figures for 1979 on the most nearly comparable basis.

On 8 October 1987 the numbers of persons unemployed in Newport district, Gwent and Wales were 8,263, 23,721 and 148,050 respectively. Unadjusted figures for 1979 are not available on a basis that enables a valid comparison to be made.

The Minister of State has been going around Wales proclaiming some sort of El Dorado, which exists only in his own imagination. When will he come down to earth and recognise that about 30,000 men have been out of work for more than five years, almost 80,000 for longer than two years and that some 5,000 have given up looking for a job altogether out of sheer despair? Is not this the reality of eight and a half years of Thatcherism in Wales and not the starry-eyed image that he is trying to portray?

I thought that the hon. Gentleman might have spared at least a word of welcome for the fall in unemployment. It has been falling for 17 consecutive months. It is now 26,055 down on October 1986, which is a 1·9 per cent. decrease, and in Gwent it is down by 5,142, which is a 3·1 per cent. decrease on October of last year and one of the biggest declines in any county in Wales. Furthermore, there has been a decline of 2,247 in the Newport travel-to-work area. Surely the hon. Gentleman welcomes that, and surely he knows that we are doing our very best for the long-term unemployed, through the special employment measures.

It is about time that the Minister stopped complaining and came to the Dispatch Box to explain why Opposition Members spread doom and gloom. As my hon. Friend the Member for Newport, East (Mr. Hughes) said, the doom and gloom have been spread by the Government since 1979. Can the Minister understand why we are not all that overjoyed that there is a drop in unemployment? His Government have created the unemployment in Wales since 1979. Is it not time that he looked at the true figures for 1979 and tried to get back to that level, from which he could develop his employment measures? In Ogmore unemployment was 3·5 per cent. in 1979. It is now 18·7 per cent. When the Minister can reduce unemployment to the 1979 level, there will not be so much doom and gloom among Labour Members.

I can never forget 1979 and the hidden unemployment of which we were aware of then and of which the people of England and Wales were very much aware. That is why they elected a Conservative Government to put things right. Our only prospect at that time was deepening unemployment. The United Kingdom economy is fundamentally strong, as was reaffirmed in the Autumn Statement. The provisional figures for industrial output in Wales are up 2 per cent. in the second quarter and 5 per cent. over the year. We are in our seventh year of successive growth and all the indicators show further improvements to come.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the dramatic reduction in unemployment in Wales in the last year, amounting to nearly 23 per cent. in my constituency, was in no small part due to the Government's tremendous success in attracting inward investment, which has increased by 25 per cent. in the past year and now amounts to 20 per cent. of the United Kingdom total? Does he agree that if we are to keep up and improve on that fine record it is essential that the Secretary of State for Wales leads inward investment missions abroad, as he is now doing in Japan?

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Unemployment in Clwyd has come down by 4,070 in the course of the last year, and that is in no small part due to the existence of five expanding Japanese companies in the area.

Is the Minister aware that that so-called dramatic improvement has led to male unemployment in my constituency more than doubling? Yet the Welsh Office, in a typical piece of job destruction, has stopped the Nan Tong cotton mill project, which we had hoped would be launched in my constituency, by refusing adequate money. Will the Minister tell us whether, even at this stage, he is prepared to re-examine that project, which would have brought more than 300 extra jobs to an area that needs them desperately? What is the latest position?

The position relating to the Nan Tong project, which involved expenditure of £25 million for the creation of 300 jobs, was explained by my right hon. Friend on 26 October. Of course we are not complacent about the position in Wales. However, unemployment has been falling for the past 17 months, and in the hon. Gentleman's county of West Glamorgan there has been a fall of 2·4 per cent. over the past year.

Does my hon. Friend agree that a large part of unemployment in Wales has been structural unemployment, caused by the decline in the old manufacturing industries, and that we should welcome the new industries which have come to Wales and which are producing many new jobs?

My hon. Friend is quite right. When I referred to the position in 1979, the change in our structure had just begun. The Labour Government had had the experience of closing down the steel mills at Ebbw Vale and Cardiff, but there was far more to come, and that is what the present Government have had to endure. What we have also done, however, is to secure new jobs through inward investment and by encouraging the expansion of businesses that are already in Wales.

Will the Minister authorise a study to quantify how many young people are forced to leave rural Wales to seek work in England and elsewhere? This is an immense problem, and I believe that it hides the true unemployment level in Wales.

It was because people were leaving mid-Wales, in particular, that we have encouraged Mid Wales Development in all the efforts that it has made to provide work opportunities there—and, indeed, in rural Wales generally. We have also encouraged the Welsh Development Agency to move into the rural areas, and we look forward to the promotion of businesses in such areas so that we can keep our young people there.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will indicate the number and total value of schemes that have now been approved under the good old age initiative.

Nine projects with a total estimated value of just under £3·5 million have now been approved under the elderly initiative grant scheme.

As £1 million was promised to Wales under the auspices of this scheme, will the Under-Secretary of State explain why there has been such a small take-up in Wales? Will he consider making the balance available to Welsh local authorities on a per capita basis, in accordance with the number of elderly people in each local authority?

I think that I understand the hon. Gentleman's problem in his island constituency. This scheme began in January 1987. Its purpose was to create original schemes to help the elderly that could be demonstrated to other parts of the Principality. We were looking for originality of schemes. Originality has been the problem with regard to take-up. Nine schemes have been approved so far. We hope that many more schemes will be approved, and we have been urging local authorities to look into the matter.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales when he next intends meeting representatives of conservation groups in Wales to discuss the progress of the Welsh wildlife appeal; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend has no present plans to meet conservation groups to discuss the progress of the Welsh wildlife appeal. I am pleased that the Welsh Office has been able to contribute £10,000 towards the costs of organising the appeal, and of course the Government already give financial support to some of the bodies involved in it.

I assure the Minister that that support is very welcome, but I suggest that he should seek a meeting with the conservation groups in Wales to discuss conservation in the Principality. Will he discuss in particular with the conservation groups the threat that is posed to the estuarine environments of south Wales? Three are protected by either national or international accords, but they are threatened by the construction of barrages across them. What assurances or reassurances is the Minister able to give that environmental considerations will he of prime importance either before or during the progress of those schemes?

Each scheme will have to be looked at in its own right. Therefore, I cannot give a blanket answer to the hon. Gentleman's question. A meeting with Ministers, or an appeal, is a matter for the organisers. The Government's attitude to conservation cannot be impugned. The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 dramatically improved the framework of nature conservation.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many regional selective assistance and regional development grants have been made or offered for projects in Wales in the last 12 months; and if he will make a statement.

In the 12 months to 31 October there have been 153 offers of regional selective assistance, and 1,390 regional development grant approvals.

Is my hon. Friend able to say how this assistance has been spread across Wales? Has a certain proportion of this assistance gone to those areas in Wales that most need help of this kind?

The assistance and the grants have been spread fairly evenly throughout Wales. As one would expect, special attention has been paid to the highly industrialised areas. However, there has been a fairly even spread, not only across Wales, but as between overseas companies and British or Welsh-based companies.

If it is such a great success story, will the Minister tell the House how many people were in full-time employment in Wales in 1979, and how many are in full-time employment now?

The hon. Gentleman knows the answer to that question. More people were in employment in Wales in 1979, but I am also right in saying that at that time there was considerable hidden unemployment. The trend was downwards, and the people of Wales knew it. That is why we were elected. As for the investment to which I have just referred, that involves £104 million in grant, with a total investment of £767 million. Nearly 24,000 new jobs are forecast, and over 2,000 jobs have been safeguarded. That is very different from the position in 1979.

Will the Minister confirm that as unemployment in Wales has risen the Government have reduced the amount of money that is available for regional assistance and the number of areas that qualify for it? Will he also confirm that fewer jobs are available today in Wales than in 1979 and that the increase in employment is explained by the number of people leaving Wales to look for jobs rather than by a real increase in the number of jobs in Wales?

The hon. Gentleman's last point is absolutely wrong. The fact is that unemployment in Wales has been going down for the past 17 months. Wales has had a faster decline in unemployment than almost any other region of the United Kingdom. There is no getting away from those facts.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if, in the light of Mr. Justice Garland's support for further investigation, he will reconsider his decision not to initiate an inquiry into the activities of Rechem International, Pontypool, Gwent; and if he will make a statement.

No, Sir. I think that the hon. Gentleman mistook the tenor of Mr. Justice Garland's address to the jury. However, as my right hon. Friend has stated, should any new evidence come to light which would warrant further study he would reconsider the position. At present no such evidence has been produced.

In considering that response, has the Minister taken into account the recent explosion and fire at the Rechem plant and the reports surrounding it? Does he agree that he is at variance with the weight of public opinion in Gwent and Torfaen on this matter? When will he realise that the fears and suspicions of the community will be allayed only when a public inquiry is held?

As I have said to the hon. Gentleman, if new evidence comes to light the position will be reconsidered, but there has been no new evidence. The matter is hotly disputed, and the hon. Gentleman and his predecessor have done little to allay people's fears, probably unwisely.

To ask the right hon. Member for Selby, as representing the Church Commissioners, what facilities the Church Commissioners offer those on their payroll for contributions to private health schemes to be deducted from their salaries; and if he will make a statement.

The Commissioners make such deductions for their staff if asked. They are ready to do the same for clergymen, but they are not aware of any widespread demand for this.

Will the Church Commissioners give medical help and assistance to bishops and clergy with specific medical difficulties, including counselling them out of homosexuality where that is a problem, in view of last week's unsatisfactory decision in the Synod?

It is not strictly the Church Commissioners' responsibility to provide funds for medical treatment for clergy. However, my hon. Friend's point is less a matter of medical necessity and more one of the proper direction of the human will.

May I invite the right hon. Gentleman to return to the original question and ask whether he is aware that the Church Commissioners have distributed information about private health schemes with salary cheques? If so, what payment was made to them for that? I do not necessarily expect an answer now, but I would be grateful if the hon. Gentleman would write to me or provide a written answer.

I understand that in one diocese served by 240 clergy a circular was issued as part of a canvass to discover whether there was any interest in private medical schemes. Only 12 clergy expressed interest when canvassed, and only five eventually joined a preferential scheme. If my answer does not fully meet the hon. Gentleman's points, I will, of course, after studying the question, write to him.

To ask the right hon. Member for Selby, as representing the Church Commissioners, if any estimate has been made of the damage to property for which the Church Commissioners are responsible, caused by the hurricane in October.

A preliminary assessment of storm damage to the Commissioners' property indicates an estimated cost of some £660,000. Most of this relates to the Commissioners' agricultural estates. About £60,000 worth of damage relates to bishops' houses.

Do the Church Commissioners insure their properties against what I can best describe as "acts of God"? If not, does that not show a certain lack of financial probity? If they do insure their property against "acts of God", does that not show a certain lack of faith?

My hon. Friend seems to impale me on the horns of an awkward dilemma. The answer is that the Church Commissioners are men and women of robust faith, and it is precisely for that reason that we would not seek to circumvent the Divine displeasure via the insurance industry. To do so might incur irreparable damage to that worthy industry.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Historic Churches Preservation Trust has evidence that many millions of pounds worth of damage has been caused to historic churches? I appreciate that that is not a direct responsibility of the commissioners, but is he prepared to join the trust and others, if necessary, in approaching his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment for extra assistance to repair those marvellous and irreplaceable buildings?

I fully appreciate the point made by my hon. Friend and, without commitment, we shall of course consider whether there is anything in these exceptional circumstances that the Church Commissioners can do to help churches and parishes faced with heavy bills for damage. My hon. Friend will understand that every pound that we contribute towards repairing the fabric of a church necessarily means that a pound is taken away from the stipends of the clergy and the contributions to their pensions. It is our priority to look after the incumbent, the human fabric, but I shall consider the point raised by my hon. Friend.

To ask the right hon. Member for Selby, as representing the Church Commissioners, what funding the Church Commissioners have made available in the last year for which figures are available to churches still in active use.

The commissioners are not generally empowered to use their funds for churches in use, but they sometimes make grants in individual cases in their capacity as landowners, where they have a chancel repair liability or where they own land in the parish. Such grants amounted to £210,000 in 1986.

Although the human fabric is vital, many of our churches which are in use are of considerable historic, architectural and cultural value and often the parishes are simply too small to support them. Will the Church Commissioners consider whether they can take a lead with English Heritage and other such bodies to see whether they can raise far more money nationally to ensure that these vital parts of our national heritage are preserved for posterity and future generations?

I suspect that my hon. Friend may have a constituency interest in his question. I took the trouble to verify whether there might be scope for helping a particular parish church in his constituency where, alas, I find that we have no chancel responsibility and own no land. In certain circumstances the Church Commissioners contribute towards the fabric repair of some churches. I must repeat that funds available for the repair and maintenance of the fabric are, pound for pound, funds taken away from the needs of the human element in our work, which must have the top priority.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take this opportunity to confirm that, whatever the Church Commissioners may have spent in the past on funding churches, there has been a momentous announcement that they are to fund to the tune of £1 million a year the re-invigoration of the Church in the inner cities as a contribution to the church urban fund? When the relevant Measure comes before the House, will the right hon. Gentleman encourage the House to approve the £1 million a year and support the call to the nation for £18 million, so that much of what is dead in the Church in the inner cities can be brought back to life for the good of the Church and the cities of our nation?

I am glad that the hon. Gentlemen has referred to the church urban fund and the £1 million contribution that the Commissioners are hoping to be able to make. I see very little likelihood of the House wishing to impede this perfectly desirable, straightforward and generous response of the Church Commissioners to a manifest need.

To my right hon. Friend's knowledge, have the Church Commissioners considered the possibility of selling their farms to the sitting tenants to raise capital with which they could keep in good repair churches whose parishes are too poor to do so for themselves?

I must remind my hon. Friend that the primary responsibility for the maintenance of the fabric of parish churches rests with the congregations of those churches, many of whom, when faced with a particular need, show an extraordinary capacity to raise funds to maintain the fabric, as do the dioceses. It would not be advantageous for the Church Commissioners to liquidate their capital assets for short-term repair needs, which could probably best be undertaken by the congregations and dioceses involved.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the coalfield areas one danger to the fabric of churches is British Coal's tardiness and in some cases its refusal to make settlements for mining subsidence? Is he further aware that I had to threaten British Coal with a debate in Bolsover church to get negotiations started? Will the Church Commissioners take steps to contact the Philistines at British Coal and ensure that settlements are forthcoming not just for the churches, but for residents in surrounding areas, such as those of Hillstown and Bolsover?

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman referred to "Philistines", which is the Old Testament term, rather than to "heretics", which is the New Testament term. The hon. Gentleman has raised an extremely important issue. I shall be glad to try to help him in relation to Bolsover church, and I give a ready undertaking to see what can be done to press British Coal to expedite and bring to a rapid conclusion any obligations that it may have with regard to subsidence. In my constituency British Coal has generally been fairly rapid in trying to reach settlements with those affected, but I will certainly look into the case that the hon. Gentleman has raised.

To ask the Lord Privy Seal if he will take steps to ensure that the Library stocks the Caribbean Times, the Asian Times, the African Times, the Voice, the Gleaner and the New Life newspaper; and if he will make a statement.

I understand that the Library currently takes the African Times, Asian Times and Caribbean Times on a regular basis, and that the Gleaner is taken by the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association headquarters. The need for further newspapers is kept under continuous review. I am sure that the hon. Lady will appreciate that because of space restrictions and the staff time involved there is a limit to the number of titles taken. I should say, however, that I personally have a great deal of sympathy with the request for the Gleaner and will be adding my representations to those of the hon. Lady.

Is the Leader of the House aware that the Library began to take the African Times, the Asian Times and the Carribean Times only in October this year and that when I first came to the House the Library stocked no minority papers at all? Will he join me in deploring the insensitivity of a Library which stocks magazines for stamp collectors and country landowners, but none reflecting ethnic minority society?

I am not sure that the fault lies with I he Library so much as with those who use it. There was no evident demand for the Library to hold stocks of the papers to which the hon. Lady referred until a request was made last summer by an hon. Member. Once the need was identified, the Library took steps to satisfy it.

Will my right hon. Friend be kind enough to arrange for the Library to stock my favourite journal, which is frequently mentioned by Peter Simple in The Daily Telegraph—the Reactionary Herald and Feudal Times?

I will certainly see that my hon. Friend's request is heard in the right quarters.

To ask the Lord Privy Seal if he has any proposals to change the arrangements for the setting up of Select Committees.

No, Sir.

Is the Leader of the House aware that it is totally unacceptable that there should be any kind of Tory veto as to which Labour Members serve on Select Committees, and that it is a form of impertinence to suggest or imply that active members of CND are too disloyal to serve on the Defence Committee? In view of the allegations made in a number of books it is intended to set up a further Select Committee to look into the Westland affair to ascertain who, if anyone, lied, and will the Committee be set up in such a way as to ensure that the civil servants involved can give evidence to it?

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman has much basis for some of his allegations. Select Committees are set up by the House. The House decides who shall serve on them. Every Member is entitled to express a view, but in the end Select Committees are set up by a decision of the House.

They have not yet been set up, but under the present arrangements some Select Committees have been concerned with proposals to increase the resources going to the European Community. Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that Wednesday's debate will not pre-empt a decision and that the Committee will be given time to look into the matter before a final decision is taken?

I am not sure that I can give my right hon. Friend the undertaking that he wants, but I shall see to it that Select Committees are set up as soon as possible.

To ask the Lord Privy Seal what progress has been made in selecting British mineral waters for the House; and if he will make a statement.

I understand that the Refreshment Department has recently organised a series of tastings of British mineral and spring waters and will be making proposals to the appropriate Sub-Committee of the Services Committee. A decision will be taken when that Sub-Committee has had an opportunity to consider the matter.

The House owes a good deal of gratitude to the Chairman of the Services Committee and his excellent staff for giving the House a chance to taste more than 50 commercial mineral waters from all over Britain. When the Services Committee makes its final decision about which English, Scottish and Welsh waters are to be drunk in the House, will my right hon. Friend ensure that the foreign waters currently drunk in the House are expelled from the list? I understand that foreign water was not part of the original water that was tasted by the water tasting Committee, which tasted only British water.

I certainly hope that in any tasting of British water, there was only British water to taste. These are weighty matters, which will be dealt with ably by the Chairman of the Sub-Committee that deals with refreshments once it gets going.

May I ask my right hon. Friend whether, in the absence of Epping Forest water, Exmoor water, which is extremely good, was tasted?

I hear from hon. Friends behind me that it was.

To ask the Lord Privy Seal what progress is being made with the establishment of Select Committees.

Motions on behalf of the Committee of Selection proposing the membership of all 14 departmental Select Committees are at present on the Order Paper. I hope that all the departmental Select Committees will soon be re-established.

Will the right hon. Gentleman admit that the situation for Scotland and Wales this year is totally grotesque? The House should ensure that the Committees on Wales and Scotland reflect the membership of the House in Wales and Scotland. That happens in the Scottish and Welsh Grand Committees. As reports come back to the Floor of the House, and before any action can be taken on them, is there anything unreasonable in moving such a proposal?

The Committee of Selection includes a representative from the minority parties. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that motions tabled by the Chairman of the Committee of Selection are amendable, that hon. Members of any party may object to them, and that, if necessary, a full debate may take place to resolve any issues.

My right hon. Friend will recall our recent exchange of correspondence in which I drew attention to the burden on the Education, Science and Arts Select Committee and suggested that it was unable to give adequate consideration to scientific matters. At the time he was unable to support my proposals to set up a Select Committee on Science and Technology, but, in the light of the support given to that idea by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, will he reconsider his decision before these matters are finalised?

The disbandment of the former Select Committee on Science and Technology was part of a package adopted by the House when the present comprehensive system for departmental Select Committees was established in 1979. The structure of our Select Committee system is always a matter for the House to decide.

Does the Leader of the House agree that it is unacceptable for Tory Members or, worse, officials from the Ministry of Defence, to suggest that certain Labour Members are unfit to serve on the House of Commons Defence Select Committee because they might be security risks? Does he also agree that history shows that if officials at the Ministry of Defence are concerned about people who betray their country, they should look not at the ranks of the Labour party but at the public school boys who support the Establishment?

I do not accept much of what the hon. Gentleman is saying. I know of no statement from the Ministry of Defence about Select Committees. Every hon. Member is perfectly entitled to have a view as to who are the right and best people to serve on any Select Committee. That is why the House will eventually decide the membership.