To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what are the most recent figures for male and female unemployment in the Ogmore constituency, Ogmore borough, Mid Glamorgan county areas and the total in Wales; and what were the equivalent figures in June 1979.

On 8 June 1989, there were 1,981, 3,080, 14,919 and 68,021 unemployed males in the Ogmore constituency, Ogwr borough, the county of Mid Glamorgan and Wales respectively. The comparable figures for unemployed females were 626, 1,147, 4,727 and 24,783. Unadjusted figures for June 1979 are not available on a basis that enables a valid comparison to be made.

All Opposition Members will be grateful to the Secretary of State for finding time in his busy diary to answer Welsh questions. I am grateful for his comprehensive answer to my question. I am sure that many unemployed people in Wales will be shouting hallelujah because unemployment is coming down. Will the Secretary of State give the House an assurance that unemployment will come down to the figure that he and his Government inherited in 1979? Will he bear in mind the fact that many people who are now unemployed could he employed in the Health Service as doctors, nurses and auxiliary workers? If he were to consider the dews that Opposition Members would like to express to him in the Welsh Grand Committee—

Briefly.

This is my last point, Mr. Speaker. Will the Secretary of State mark in his diary 19 July or 26 July for a debate on the Health Service?

I shall answer the parts of the hon. Gentleman's question that were in order and then, if Mr. Speaker permits me, I shall answer the points that were out of order. The hon. Gentleman will be delighted that in the first year that I had the privilege to be Secretary of State for Wales, unemployment in his constituency fell by 17·5 per cent. He will be even more delighted to know that last year it fell by 23·7 per cent. Such progress in reducing unemployment has never been seen in his constituency or in Wales.

I warmly congratulate my right hon. Friend on his latest inward investment success and the major part that he played in bringing the Toyota engine plant to Shotton in the constituency of the shadow Secretary of State for Wales, who could never have brought it there had he tried. My right hon. Friend did so without costing the taxpayer a penny. How many jobs will be created by that project in the engine plant Itself and among local component manufacturers and service industries?

The Toyota engine plant is an important investment. In fairness to the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mr. Jones), he was enthusiastic and delighted about the decision that the plant will be in his constituency. It presents enormous opportunities for component manufacturers and shows the world at large that north Wales can offer a good labour force, good communications and good facilities. As a result, I hope that there will be much more inward investment in the months ahead.

Is the Secretary of State aware of the announcement in the past few minutes of the proposed closure of the Merthyr Vale pit at Aberfan? That is one of the worst acts of industrial vandalism perpetrated in the south Wales coalfield. Is he aware of the investments and developments that he has supported and the efforts that have been made to reach targets? I know that he made representations about the future of the colliery a few weeks ago. May I plead with him to intercede at the highest level with the chairman of British Coal to try to get the decision reconsidered?

I understand the real distress and anxiety of the hon. Gentleman at the announcement affecting his constituency. Like the hon. Gentleman, I heard of the announcement literally only half an hour ago because the meeting with the miners ended around lunchtime. He also knows that I conveyed the information with which he provided me to the chairman of British Coal and asked him to consider the representations carefully. I will have a look at the detail of the announcement and see what matters arise.

I join my hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Mr. Rowlands) in expressing concern about the closure of Merthyr Vale. Many people in my constituency who have lost their jobs in the coal industry not once or twice but three times, and they will be made redundant again by this announcement. Is the Secretary of State concerned by the recent report of the Office of Population Censuses and Surveys, which shows that the Cynon valley ranks third in the country for the death rate among men? Is he aware that the Cynon valley has the highest male unemployment rate for Wales? Does he now accept the link between unemployment and ill health? What is he going to do about it?

I am sure that unemployment causes a range of health problems. However, in the Cynon valley, as in other parts of Wales many health problems are connected with the coal industry. It has been a major factor in ill health in a number of the valley regions, including the hon. Lady's constituency. There is a connection with employment and with unemployment.

In support of my hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, I ask for urgent help regarding the grave closure faced by the community. Recognising the importance of the Welsh Development Agency to employment creation in Wales, may I ask the Secretary of State to explain why the two suspended officers of the west Wales office of the Welsh Development Agency were allowed to continue their plans for the management buy-out? Why were they allowed to believe that they had the support of the agency, with which they say they had six months of detailed discussions?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that the Welsh Development Agency has made clear its attitude to the offer by the management of one part of the agency and that it has constantly rejected that proposal. As the hon. Gentleman knows, while I have had responsibility, I have increased massively the activities of the Welsh Development Agency. I am pleased to say that its budget for this year alone is more in cash terms than the total amount spent by the agency in the whole period of office of the previous Labour Government. The agency has an important and positive role to play and I am pleased to say that it turned down those proposals.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on the progress being made to establish better links between schools, training and industry in Wales.

A network of eight advisers, operating within local education authority boundaries, has now been appointed. They are actively encouraging all employers in their areas to participate in creating new or strengthening existing links with educational establishments and to contribute towards the prime objectives of providing work experience for all young persons before they leave school and business experience for teachers.

In view of the close relationship between economic and industrial development, and the special training needs of the work force, does the Minister now agree that the responsibility for education-industry links and special training in Wales should be transferred to the Welsh Office?

We have anticipated the hon. Gentleman to a large extent, in that my right hon. Friend and the Welsh Office have a responsibility for training in Wales and work closely with the Training Agency. We are actively involved with the training advisory group in setting up training and enterprise councils.

In examining the link between industry and training, will the Minister consider carefully some of the activities in the Polytechnic of Wales—an institution of which I am proud, having been chairman of the governors for eight years? With the publication of the National Audit Office report this weekend, will the Minister find out whether other senior people in the polytechnic have been involved in activities in which taxpayers' money may have been wasted?

As a former chairman of the governors, the hon. Gentleman knows full well that responsibility for staffing lies with the local authority and that dealing with the two cases involved is and has been a matter for that local authority.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales if there are any plans under consideration for the privatisation of part or all of the functions of the Welsh Development Agency.

The agency has constantly reviewed the scope for increasing private sector involvement in the range of its activities, in accordance with its statutory responsibilities and the policy guidelines laid down by the Government. Accordingly, over the past year—as in previous years—it has sold assets worth some £12·5 million to private sector interests. It has also contracted out its legal, press and information services and it has announced an intention to seek the adoption of utility services by the statutory providers on a number of its estates.

May I express my anxiety about the circumstances surrounding the suspension of the two officers who have been removed from west Wales? Were not those two men guilty simply of jumping the gun and making public proposals that the agency is considering in a larger way? Will the Secretary of State confirm whether there have been detailed discussions between the WDA and Barclays de Zoete Wedd Ltd., the merchant bank arm of Barclays bank? There have been tremendous comings and goings during the past six months. Will he confirm that the agenda includes hiving off services, more private funding—with perhaps a 50–50 public-private structure—and possibly even outright privatisation?

No, Sir. The proposals of the two officials were for a straight management buy-out of the services and assets operating in one region of the WDA. There are constant examinations with, I would guess, all sorts of advisers about gearing up the money coming into the WDA from the private sector. If successful proposals and suggestions were put forward, I expect that the hon. Gentleman would warmly welcome them.

Is it not all too typical of the hon. Member for Carmarthen (Mr. Williams) that he is fussing about the structure and ownership of the organisation when what really matters are its functions and activities and that it should continue to attract industry to Wales and to promote industrial development within Wales?

During the next few years, the WDA is committed to firm programmes with a considerable dimension, including the biggest-ever derelict land clearance programmes, and the biggest-ever advanced factory building programmes, and we must not forget the range of services that it is providing at present. As I said in answer to an earlier question, in the coming year alone we shall be spending more money on the WDA than was spent during the previous Labour Government's entire period of office.

I welcome what the right hon. Gentleman said about the security of the Welsh Development Agency, but will he go a little further? On behalf of the Conservative party and Conservative Members, will he now recant their actions which, had they succeeded, would have prevented the setting up of the Welsh Development Agency, in which the right hon. Gentleman now takes so much pride and pleasure?

I have been the biggest user of the Welsh Development Agency of any Secretary of State since it was started, so the hon. Gentleman should enthusiastically support the manner in which I have given it a considerably expanding role and a new dynamism which never attained under the Labour Government.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is nothing wrong with employees of an organisation such as the WDA making suggestions about what could be better privatised? Such employees may be well placed to offer their employers advice on those matters. May I urge my right hon. Friend, if necessary, to continue to examine all such proposals on the basis of what is best for the achievement of the WDA's objectives and for the taxpayer who has to pay the bill, rather than following dogma for dogma's sake?

I knew nothing of those proposals until they were announced by the press. Officials of the WDA knew of them and had rejected them, and a number of my officials knew that the rejection had taken place. The proposals were firmly rejected at an early stage there was great surprise in the WDA and the Welsh Office that such proposals were eventually made.

If the right hon. Gentleman did not know, he should have known. He has given us wriggling answers. Is it not the case that the two west Wales officials simply jumped the gun by making public a proposal that the WDA was examining in a wider way? Does that explain why the WDA finance director spent time with the privatised National Freight Corporation? Will the Secretary of State explain those matters?

The WDA is perfectly free to explore any ways of bringing more private capital into its activities. I see nothing wrong with that. I should be surprised if it was the Labour party view that the WDA should refuse gearing or additional investment for Wales on the grounds that it was tainted because it came from private enterprise. The only proposals for the WDA involve continuing its present activities. The proposals made by the two men to whom the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mr. Jones) referred had nothing to do with the sort of proposals that the WDA had been examining.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects the Welsh Development Agency to publish the Milford Haven business plan. and if he will make a statement.

This is a matter for the WDA and the South Pembrokeshire and Preseli district councils which are jointly working to identify opportunities within Milford Haven for developing existing businesses and encouraging new ones. I am advised that they expect to launch their Milford Haven concept early in the autumn.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the present problems affecting the west Wales office of the WDA will have no effect on the timing and announcement of the Milford Haven business initiative?

Yes, I can.

On the west Wales WDA buy-out proposals and the questions that the Secretary of State did not answer, was a prestigious merchant bank—BZW—involved in drawing up plans for privatisation?

It may have been involved in drawing up plans to bring private participation into a range of WDA activities. I see nothing wrong with that.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales when he next expects to meet the chairman of British Rail to discuss rail services in the Principality.

My right hon. Friend is in frequent correspondence and discussion with senior staff of British Rail at regional and national level. He expects to meet the chairman again soon.

In the light of the incompetence shown by the chairman and his senior staff in the current rail dispute, can we in Wales have any confidence that they will show the necessary dynamism or vision in respect of matters of great importance to Wales such as the electrification of lines and preparing for the Channel tunnel? If the Prime Minister does the dirty on the Secretary of State for Wales, can we expect him to apply for the job of chairman?

I understand the hon. Gentleman's position as he is sponsored by the National Union of Railwaymen. However, he will be aware that the Transport Salaried Staffs Association and the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen have accepted the 8·8 per cent. offer. I am sure that the House will come to its own conclusion about British Rail's conduct of its affairs. With regard to the Channel tunnel, the hon. Gentleman will know that British Rail has been conducting meetings throughout the land with a view to preparing a document, outlining its plans, for publication before the end of the year.

When the Secretary of State next meets the chairman of British Rail will he suggest sending a task force to France to see how the French are linking their railway system into the Channel tunnel and emphasise to him the need for direct rail links from south Wales to the main continental centres?

I am sure that British Rail will take note of what the hon. Gentleman has said. We are well aware of the preparations on the other side of the Channel. However, preparations are being made in this country.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the great concern in north-east Wales, particularly among business men and industrialists, that the Welsh Dragon does not stop at Flint or Prestatyn, although it stops at Stafford, Lichfield and Nuneaton? Will he suggest to the chairman of British Rail that the Welsh Dragon either stops at more stations in north-east Wales or is renamed the English Unicorn?

I am well aware that the train does not stop at Flint, but British Rail tells me that that is for a good reason—that very few passengers get on or off there.

How can they get on or off if the trains do not stop there?

The Minister will be aware that there are two major railway stations in my constituency—Aberystwyth in Cardiganshire and Fishguard in north Pembrokeshire with its vital Irish connection. The next time the Minister meets the chairman of the board will he press him to spend more on those two stations to make sure that they can play a major part in the economy of Wales? Will the Minister write to me afterwards?

These matters are among those that are discussed with British Rail. I am well aware of the position of those ports and their importance not only to the hon. Gentleman but to the whole economy of west Wales. I am also aware of their importance in trade with Ireland.

Will my hon. Friend have a word with the chairman of British Rail about the quality of service between Swansea, Milford Haven, Haverfordwest and the other stations in Pembrokeshire where we are forced to suffer 25-year-old diesel multiple units? They are filthy, hot in summer and cold in winter and do not have enough accommodation for passengers' luggage on this holiday line. Will he also tell the Opposition that their continued support for the National Union of Railwaymen against the passenger has meant that my constituents have been unable to keep hospital appointments in Swansea, Carmarthen and London on the days on which the railways are not operating?

I can tell my hon. Friend that British Rail is investing at a record level—some £781 million in the current year—and that is due to increase over the next three years. I hope that some of the money may find its way into some of the services that are being criticised in Wales.

As the Minister previously acknowledged the success of initiatives by Mid Glamorgan and South Glamorgan county councils with British Rail in opening new stations and new services, does he recognise that the spending plans of the Government and the high inflation rate for which the Government are responsible imply a real cut this year of £104 million, or 20 per cent., in British Rail's external financing limits? Is that not the cause of most of the complaints that have been made by hon. Members? Does the Minister accept that this constraint and his refusal to put in more Welsh Office money is undermining the public interest? Will he offer more money to expand local services and reopen lines such as the Vale of Glamorgan line, with a spur to Cardiff Wales airport to benefit the whole region, as was argued by my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Mr. Smith)?

The hon. Gentleman is clearly not in touch with the Labour county council of south Glamorgan. It is entirely up to that council whether to make a proposal about the Vale of Glamorgan line.

Not true.

The hon. Gentleman says "Not true." I defy the hon. Gentleman: the statement that I have just made is true.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales when he last met the chairman of the Countryside Commission; and what issues were discussed.

I spoke to the chairman of the Countryside Commission last week when we discussed the proposed merger of the commission and the Nature Conservancy Council in Wales which has been widely welcomed.

May I widen that welcome? Of course, we welcome the fact that the Government have established an independent conservation body for Wales which the previous Labour Government failed to do. How does the Minister see the merger of the two bodies taking place? For example, is it the intention that the two existing advisory bodies should remain in place until the transition in 1991? Is it the intention that Professor Gareth Owen and Mr. Meurig Rees should remain as chairmen of the advisory bodies until 1991 to ensure a smooth transition? Will he ensure that the body will be a statutory agency that is entirely accountable to his Department?

I certainly confirm the latter point. With regard to the first point, the hon. Gentleman will know that the progress of reorganisation requires legislation. Meanwhile, we shall consult the various bodies that are involved in this merger in Wales. At present we have two advisory committees and it is our intention to make them an executive body.

Does the Minister recognise, however, that the welcome is not entirely unqualified, especially as the purpose of the merger is to ensure that there is no independent conservation voice on matters which will be within the remit of the new body in Wales? Can he give a guarantee that the body will be free from direct political control? As most conservation bodies have an international dimension, can he tell us whether the new body will be present at international conferences? If so, will the Welsh Office now he responsible for ratifying international conventions in so far as they apply to conservation issues in Wales?

Issues that require to be addressed at United Kingdom national or at international level will continue to be the responsibility of the central bodies in England. I think that that is a wise move on our part. The single body that we shall have in Wales will be concerned with Welsh matters.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales why certain marginal land farms in Wales have been excluded from the latest less-favoured area status review.

All those farms whose owners or occupiers put forward representations or appeals against exclusion from the LFA, after the 1984 extension, had their cases fully considered during the recent review. Some 974 farms satisfied the initial land quality tests and, of these, 500 satisfied the strict economic and demographic criteria laid down by the EC. A case to include those 500 farms in the LFA has been submitted to Brussels.

Does the Secretary of State agree that it is extremely unfair that only half of the farms that were originally passed are now included—500 of them, in Dyfed, Clwyd, Gwynedd and Gwent—and that none of the 139 farms submitted for Powys is included at all? Does he agree that that is a disgraceful situation which he and his Department should investigate immediately and put right?

No, Sir. The Commission's proposals were that the basis of stocking rates should be one livestock unit per hectare. I decided to put forward proposals which go for a higher stocking rate than that as I believe that there was an argument for so doing. We have put forward all those cases which submitted not just one, but 1·2 livestock units per hectare. I am afraid that no application in Powys had a stocking rate of less than 1·57 livestock units per hectare. There is no way of negotiating that with the Commission under the present proposals. To do so would damage my negotiating position, which is to seek an extension of what the Commission proposed.

Is the Secretary of State not concerned that these marginal lands and other lands in Wales may have been treated with the fungicides identified by the United States as causing an additional 100,000 cancer deaths? Is he aware that those fungicides will not be tested or examined in the Harpenden, Hertfordshire laboratory in Britain possibly for 10 years, because staffing there is 25 per cent. below strength? How much longer must we go on eating food treated with chemicals that have not been properly tested and which present a threat to our lives?

I hope that before this matter is properly examined the hon. Gentleman will not yet again create an enormous scare which may not be well founded. As his question has nothing to do with this application to the European Commission, I shall reply to him separately.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what economic effect will result from the completion of road improvements on the A55; and if he will make a statement.

Economic opportunities in north Wales will be greatly enhanced by the dualling of the A55, which will improve accessibility between north Wales, including Holyhead, the motorwork network and continental Europe. Journey times between Bangor and Chester will be reduced to around one hour.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that excellent answer, which shows clearly the Government's commitment to the development of the infrastructure of north Wales. Can he tell the House how much all the works will cost, when they will be completed and their effect on inward investment into north Wales?

We believe that the cost, at current terms, will be about £550 million. The work will be completed in the mid 1990s. The impact is already considerable. I believe, for example, that decisions such as that of Toyota to come to the area, and the substantial reductions in unemployment along the length of the A55 over the past two years have been influenced by that improved communication.

Bearing in mind the eulogy that the Secretary of State has been able to give about the benefits of the A55 to north Wales, will he adopt a similar strategic approach to the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth route, so that mid-Wales and west Wales can gain the same strategic economic benefits?

I am delighted to say that the road improvements throughout the Principality including mid-Wales and west Wales, when one considers their use, density of traffic and population, show that Wales has done exceedingly well compared with the rest of the United Kingdom.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many representations he has received on the proposed changes to the routes of the approach road to the second Severn crossing on the Welsh side.

At the recent public exhibitions at Caldicot and Rogiet, 24 representations were recorded. Those and all other views will be carefully considered before a final decision is taken on the route.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the proposals for changes to the route on both sides of the Bristol channel have been largely welcomed? Indeed, there is a general belief that the road should now go ahead as quickly as possible. Does my hon. Friend further agree that the one thing that might possibly hold it up would be any attempts to hold down the toll regime on either of the new bridge or of the old one to less than economic levels?

My hon. Friend is well aware that the increase in toll charges is still subject to inquiry and decision, but certainly we are most anxious that the second Severn crossing should go ahead. We have expedited as far as we can the appointment of four consortia as full tenderers, and we hope that the successful tenderer will be announced around the end of the year.

Why did the Secretary of State conspire with Cardiff to have Newport removed from road signs on the M4 motorway? Does he appreciate the harm that has been done to the commercial interests of Newport, which has a more favourable geographical location on the eastern seaboard than Cardiff? Those signs had been there for 25 years—many years before Cardiff even had a motorway—so why were there no discussions with Gwent county council or Newport borough council before the signs were removed? Is this yet another example of open government, and what is the Minister doing to remedy the situation?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that Newport is still very much on the map and is becoming more so as the Government continue in office and continue to bring more industry and new development to Newport. The hon. Gentleman is right that the directional sign for Newport has been removed at one point, but the reason for that was that when the sign was put up the M4 did not reach Cardiff. Hon. Members who represent Cardiff will agree that it is important that Cardiff should also be on the map.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what consideration he gives to the wishes of the local community when considering appeals against planning refusals by local planning authorities in Wales; and how many planning appeals he has upheld against authorities' decisions during the past 12 months.

All representations made to the Department about the planning merits of an appeal are taken into account in arriving at my decisions. Out of 1,060 appeals decided during the past 12 months, 343 were allowed.

Does the Secretary of State accept that when large-scale tourist projects are considered by local authorities they should be given the go-ahead only if the local community wants the project in that form, and that if there is a threat to the environment, the social fabric or the culture of the area, the project should not go ahead? Given the threat posed by some such projects, and the fact that when tourist projects occur it is important that they have the backing of the local community—which, after all, is supposed to welcome the people who come to its area—should not the final decision rest with the local authorities and not with the Welsh Office?

The hon. Gentleman is really saying that there should be no rights of appeal on certain projects, but that would be a dangerous position to adopt. Many planning applications are made in Wales and in the rest of the country to which people in the immediate locality object, but to which a wider range of people do not object because of the job opportunities and the new activities created—indeed, they probably support such projects. So far, under all Governments, there has been a right of appeal, and that is perfectly correct. The figures that I have given show that out of 1,060 appeals, 343 were allowed, so the large bulk were rejected. To take away the right of appeal because a local authority has made a decision would be a mistake.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many accidents there were on the A55 in Wales for the last year for which figures are available.

One hundred and ninety three personal injury accidents were recorded in 1988 on the A55 trunk road in Wales.

Will the Minister admit that his penny-pinching policies in previous years regarding the construction of the A55 led to some of those accidents? In a spirit of co-operation with the opposition that is felt by everyone in north Wales, will he undertake to ensure that the dangerous right turns into oncoming traffic on the dual carriageway sections of that road are closed off and grade separated underpasses provided instead?

All the improvements that we have carried out on the A55 have improved the accident rate. Currently the A55 is a mix of single and dual carriageways and its accident rate is equal to the national average. The total number of fatal and serious personal injury road accidents on the A55 has fallen in each of the past three years. We are, of course, always looking at ways in which to improve road safety.

To ask the Minister for the Arts what improvements have been made to the Imperial War museum in the last 12 months.

On 29 June I attended the opening by Her Majesty the Queen of a substantial redevelopment of the Imperial War museum's main building.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Does he agree that that project is an excellent example of co-operation between the public and private sector? Will he take this opportunity to congratulate the staff and the director of the museum on the recent refurbishment work and the way in which they carried it out?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his remarks. I certainly join him in congratulating the director and staff on a remarkable achievement. It is interesting to note that that redevelopment cost £16·7 million altogether. The Government contributed just over £12 million and the rest came from the private sector. The project is a fine example of joint funding by the public and the private sector.

While welcoming the improvements in the Imperial War museum, will the right hon. Gentleman turn his attention to those other museums which, in the words of the Public Accounts Committee which took evidence on this matter in October last year, have faced

"a major breakdown over many years in the proper stewardship of major national assets"?

That is exactly why, over the four years beginning 1987–88, I took the decision to increase by 53 per cent. the amount of money available for building and maintenance. The money allocated for building and maintenance this year will amount to £48 million, rising to £55 million by 1991. The right hon. Gentleman knows that there is three-year funding, but I have retained a certain flexibility in relation to building and maintenance so that in years two and three I can respond to the particular demands of particular institutions. I naturally attach great importance to the maintenance of such buildings.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the Imperial War museum is bound by national agreements on pay and staffing levels and what effect that has upon that and other museums? Is it right to straitjacket museums in that way? Should they not make their own arrangements on pay and staffing levels as they see fit?

My hon. Friend has raised an important point. Since 1963, all the main national institutions have been linked to Civil Service pay and conditions, but some of the national institutions are looking for new ways in which to approach this problem and are coming forward with ideas. I believe that the main way forward must be more flexible pay arrangements for each institution. Museums are free to operate such a scheme under present arrangements and there is nothing to stop them moving forward in that direction.

To ask the Minister for the Arts what information he has on the proportion of staff salary costs to total central Government grants in the national museums.

In 1988–89 the total salary costs of the Office of Arts and Libraries sponsored national museums and galleries represented 90 per cent. of annual Government grant-in-aid for running costs and 56 per cent. of the institutions' total grant-in-aid from the arts programme.

Is the Minister aware that the percentage is creeping up? For example, this year for the V and A 98 per cent. of the total grant is used for running costs. Will the Minister try to correct the problem not by cutting the number of museum staff or their salaries, but by ensuring that the funding for museums is put on a proper basis so that staff have a high morale and good salaries, and the pictures and exhibits are not at risk, as stated in the letter from the five chairmen of the national musuems which is on the Prime Minister's desk this afternoon?

Before responding to the hon. Gentleman's point, I must make it absolutely plain that the past few years have seen an unprecedented expansion and refurbishment of our national institutions—ranging from the Tate galleries to the Imperial War museum and the National Portrait gallery, which has extended its position in north Wales, to a range of other refurbishments which have been quite dramatic and unprecedented. The hon. Gentleman is right, of course—it is essential to ensure that the buildings are maintained in good condition. That is why since 1979 there has been a 50 per cent. increase in real terms in the amount of money for building and maintenance, and why I am putting extra money into that work in the present four-year period. I take my responsibility for the welfare of those institutions very seriously, and I take serious note of the views expressed by the chairmen and directors.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that that substantial increase in real terms since 1979 is highly important? Does he further agree that inflation is the one thing which threatens to erode the benefits of that increase? Does it not follow, therefore, that the museums—like everyone else—should support policies which bring down inflation?

My hon. Friend must be right. Inflation is, of course, the biggest threat to museums and galleries. That is why the Government's highest priority is to tackle inflation.

Does the Minister agree with the five chairmen of the national galleries and museums who, having prepared corporate plans as requested, have written to the Prime Minister today to say that unless the Government provide extra money before the next pay round in the autumn, galleries will close, exhibitions will be fewer, staff will be cut, opening hours will be shorter and works of art will be at risk? Does the Minister agree that the present situation is the result of 10 years of neglect by the Government of our museum world, as documented by the Public Accounts Committee and the National Audit Office, and in particular the result of a grant increase this year of only 2·5 per cent. when inflation is 8 per cent. and wage rises are 8 per cent. plus? Will the Minister go to the Chancellor and fight for more money for our national museums, or will he sit idly by and let them crumble?

The hon. Gentleman should be careful about suggesting that there have been cuts to the national museums and galleries over the past 10 years. If he makes such suggestions, I shall make comparisons with what happened under Labour Governments, which would not show his party in a healthy light. There has been a 25 per cent. increase in real terms in overall funding for our national institutions and a 50 per cent. increase for building and maintenance. That was our response to the urgent demands of the chairmen and directors of those institutions. As I said, the corporate strategies have now revealed further priorities. For example, officials at the Victoria and Albert museum have said that they require £100 million over 10 years. I have already earmarked a minimum of £25 million for the next three years. The gap between what the museum requires and what it is likely to receive from the Government is not very large.

To ask the Minister for the Arts what steps he is taking to assist small theatres.

Through its funding of the Arts Council and the regional arts associations, the Government give substantial support to theatre in all its forms.

Perhaps my right hon. Friend will agree that this week the theatres should not miss the opportunity to pay tribute to the great actor whom we have lost in the past few days, Lawrence Olivier. We shall greatly miss his stage presence, but the memory of his acting and production will, I suspect, never leave us. He had a great interest in theatre of all sizes, but not even Archie Rice would have appeared on the stages to which this question refers.

My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the sad death of Lord Olivier and to his great achievements, and I should like to add my tribute. His genius added new heights of achievement to British drama, and his contributions as a director of the Royal National theatre and the Chichester theatre led to great achievements for both institutions.

To ask the Minister for the Civil Service what representations he has received seeking the introduction of an induction course at Sunningdale for all new hon. Members after the next general election.

Introductory briefing sessions about the Civil Service were held for hon. Members of all parties during 1988. The facility for briefing Members remains available at any time through the usual channels.

The briefings that took place were exceptionally good and I commend them to new Members who are elected next time. It is important that new Members find their way around. Novices and virgins in parliamentary procedure such as myself need all the assistance that we can get. That particularly applies to Conservative Members, who have to learn all the techniques of planted questions and planted supplementaries with which Opposition Members are unfamiliar. Does the Minister agree that it will be all the more important to hold an intensive induction course after the next election, when there will be more than 100 new Labour Members?

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman took advantage of that facility and thought it valuable. It is available not just for new Members but for any Member who feels at any time that he needs to know more about how the Civil Service operates and about the changes and reforms taking place.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that when he arranged such a course for Labour Members after the last election, only three turned up? Does he feel that that was value for money for the taxpayer?

It might mean that Labour Members were pessimistic about their chances after the next election. Whatever the reason, the existence of such a facility is valuable, especially to new Members who knew little about the Civil Service, in helping to get rid of some preconceptions and teaching Members a little more about how it operates.

To ask the Minister for the Civil Service if he has received further representations from the Institution of Professional Civil Servants seeking talks about the code of ethics for Government information officers.

I have received no such representations from the Institution of Professional Civil Servants.

Will the Minister be meeting Bill Brett on this subject?

I am happy to meet him if he would like to do so to discuss any matter to do with the Civil Service.

To ask the Minister for the Civil Service whether he will encourage child care within the Civil Service to encourage recruitment and retention of staff.

Yes, I am already doing so. The Civil Service seeks to employ staff of the highest quality of both sexes and recognises the importance of providing good child care facilities if it is to recruit and retain such staff.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that encouraging reply. Does he agree that the effects of the demographic trough of which we are all aware, which mean that in Nottinghamshire 30 per cent. fewer children will be leaving school by 1995, underline the importance of good-quality child care, of career breaks and of other ways of encouraging part-timers back to work?

My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the demographic changes. There will be a substantial fall in the number of 16 to 19-year-olds in the next five or six years. That means that we shall have to look more widely to recruit the most able people, to keep up the standards of the Civil Service. I hope that as a result of our equal opportunities policy we shall be able to recruit more women to the service. There are a number of schemes—self-financing holiday schemes, care-parent schemes, and value-for-money nurseries—being established. There is also the evolution of part-time work, job-sharing and flexible working opportunities, all of which should help to recruit more people, particularly women, in the next five or six years.

As this country has one of the worst records in Europe on child care provision, why do the Government not put their money where their mouth is and enable local education authorities to make statutory provision for child care facilities?

The hon. Lady must put that question to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science. My concern is with the provision in the Civil Service. We are providing facilities to enable us to recruit and retain the best and most competent people, including women. We have to grapple with that problem. We are providing an increasing range of facilities which should encourage able women to stay rather than leave, as well as encouraging more to join the service.

To ask the Minister for the Civil Service when he last met representatives of the Civil Service unions; and what subjects were discussed.

I met members of the Council of Civil Service Unions on 27 June to discuss the future of the Civil Service Commission.

Has there been any discussion about the freezing of the mileage allowance over the past two years, which seems a particularly mean-minded approach to the Civil Service? Have there been any consultations about shifting the Civil Service Commission to agency status, or is that, too, to be done without consultation? Should not the Government at least adopt a policy of no annihilation without consultation?

The hon. Gentleman's first question is principally for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I have already announced on behalf of the Government that, except for high grades, more recruitment can be done by Government Departments and that a Government agency is to be established which can recruit on a competitive basis for all levels and grades within the service and for all Departments. I have already had discussions with trade union leaders about that. It will lead to an improved service and an even more effective way of recruiting the best people.

A few weeks ago, staff at passport offices had to take industrial action to make the point that the service provided by the Government was not properly staffed. The Prime Minister said that the civil servants could not care a damn. What is the Minister's view?

The hon. Gentleman knows that there has been an increase in the number of civil servants at the passport office. Incidentally, he should note that the passport office is a candidate to become a Government agency, where targets can be established to provide the best possible performance, including performance to the public. That is an important part of the reforms announced by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister in February last year, which are designed to improve the service to the public.

To ask the Minister for the Civil Service how many persons in the Civil Service are engaged in the consideration of matters relating to the European Community; and if he will make a statement.

All civil servants are alerted as necessary to the implications of the European Community for their work. Some are directly involved, others indirectly.

As Britain seems to get a particularly rotten deal from the Common Market with the highest ever net contribution and trade deficit and as all member states except ourselves are blissfully ignoring decisions of the European Court, would it not be appropriate for some civil servants to watch the position to see whether Britain could get a relatively fairer deal rather than the present dreadful one?

To leave aside my hon. Friend's general remarks about the Community, it follows from what he said that whether he is right or wrong it is essential that the civil servants who advise Ministers are well equipped to do so, knowledgeable about the Community and heavily involved in it. If we want British interests to be served properly, that is the right thing to do. That is why we provide a range of facilities, courses and assistance to civil servants.

To ask the Minister for the Civil Service when he last met representatives of the Civil Service unions; and what subjects were discussed.

I met members of the Council of Civil Service Unions on 27 June to discuss the future of the Civil Service Commission.

What assurances did the Minister give the trade unions about the level of staffing at the new British library, and about the future level of staffing at our national galleries and museums?

I have not had discussions with the union leaders about the level of staffing at the British library, but hon. Gentlemen should note that the support for the British library from the taxpayers is substantial. We have committed no less than £400 million of taxpayers' money to the new British library, based at St. Pancras. The hon. Gentleman should welcome that warmly.

To ask the Minister for the Civil Service how many civil servants there are in his Department at the current time; how many there were on 3 May, 1979 and 1974, respectively; and if he will make a statement.

There are 944 civil servants within the responsibility of the Office of the Minister for the Civil Service. Of these, 640 are employed in areas which have assumed, or are planning to assume, agency status.

Will my right hon. Friend give the overall number for the Civil Service? In so doing, will he note that there are far fewer civil servants now than there were 10 years ago, and will he join me in congratulating the reduced number of civil servants on a greatly improved output of work? Does this not show that we did not need a vast army of civil servants to run this country and never shall?

My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the size of the Civil Service, which has been reduced by 21 per cent. in the last decade. He is also right to draw attention to the fact that we now have not only a slimmed down Civil Service but a highly professional service, which does an outstanding job in advising the Government of the day.