To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he next intends to visit hospitals in the Down district of Northern Ireland to discuss health care in the district.

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what representations he has received from Down community health committee on matters relating to health care in Down district.

My noble Friend Lord Arran intends to carry out a visit to health and social care facilities in the Down district including the Downe hospital, in the very near future. In November last year, in response to Eastern health and social services board's acute framework document, the Down community health committee forwarded to the Department of Health and Social Services a document entitled "Save our Hospitals". In July of this year, the committee forwarded a further document called "Our Future Hospitals".

The Minister is obviously aware of the profound concern that has been expressed in the Down area of Northern Ireland over the threat to the area's maternity and acute services. Why does the health authority insist on threatening the future of the two hospitals which provide excellent care for the local community? Is the health authority being driven by the needs of centralised finance, and not looking at the benefits provided in the community?

The hon. Member will be aware that the Eastern board is currently finalising its strategy document and it would be wrong at this stage to speculate on what might be in that document. When the document has been completed, it will be forwarded to my noble Friend Lord Arran, who will give it careful consideration. That consideration will be given in the light of representations that are made to him, and also those that I will pass on to him that have been made in the House today.

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when he last discussed with members of the Eastern health and social services board the question of the closure of and reduction in hospitals in Northern Ireland.

The Secretary of State has had no discussions with members of the Eastern health and social services board about the provision of hospital services. My noble Friend Lord Arran keeps in regular contact with the board about the progress in the development of its strategy for acute hospital services.

Further to the question he has just answered, does the Minister agree that the effect—HON. MEMBERS: "Reading".] I am not reading.

The hon. Lady is doing exactly the opposite of what I asked her to do, and is speculating on what might be in the report. That speculation negates the process, of which I will remind her.

As local people and their representatives in Northern Ireland have no say whatever in the operation of the Eastern health and social services board, will the Minister draw to that body's attention, at his next meeting with it, the fact that the population of Belfast has fallen from 400,000 to 280,000 in the past 10 years? Will he tell the board that there is now an overcapacity in the provision of hospital beds in the city of Belfast, and that we want the board to provide more hospital facilities to serve the people of the Castlereagh, Ards and North Down boroughs, which are increasing in population day by day?

I am sure that the board will have heard the right hon. Gentleman's words in the House today. He will understand, however, that the process will work only if the board is allowed to formulate its strategy, subject to its own process, and bring it before the Minister. I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that, once that is done, the Minister will consider the strategy fully in the light of all the representations made.

Does not the Minister agree that the real purpose of his health policy is nothing to do with improving health, and that the Government are turning hospitals into marketplaces for making a profit? Does he not agree with the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Mrs. Jackson) that services such as maternity services should be as close to the people as possible, especially in rural areas? Why does the hon. Gentleman propose to close the maternity services unit in Omagh in County Tyrone?

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman, of all people, has not watched carefully the improvements that have been made in health service provision in Northern Ireland. Let me give him one or two figures. In the past five years, the number of patients treated in hospitals each year has increased by 41,000, or some 17 per cent. In the past two years, the number of patients waiting more than two years for treatment has decreased by 82 per cent. In the past 10 years, deaths from coronary heart disease among those under the age of 65 have fallen from 230 per 100,000 to 153 per 100,000—a drop of 33 per cent. I wish that the hon. Gentleman would sometimes talk up the health service and show the good work that it does in Northern Ireland.

Will the Minister prevail on the noble Lord Arran to visit the hospitals in the Eastern health and social services board area, to talk to those who provide the services and to listen to some of their genuine concerns? We know that there is no democratic accountability in the boards, but, at present, there are local health and social services councils. Under the new arrangements, those councils will be dispensed with and there will be no opportunity for people to bring forward local interests to be acted upon. Will the Minister impress on his colleague Lord Arran that he should discuss such matters with the people who provide the services and listen to what they are saying, as that is most important?

I am sure that my noble Friend Lord Arran will have heard the hon. Gentleman's request. I repeat that consultation plays a full part in the process. I also repeat what I said right at the beginning—that my noble Friend intends to visit health and social care facilities in the Down district, including the Downe hospital, in the near future.

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on security in Northern Ireland.

Since my right hon. and learned Friend answered a similar question on 1 July 1993, there have been 13 deaths as a result of the security situation in Northern Ireland, including 12 civilians and one soldier. The Government will continue to pursue a security policy that strives to defend the people of Northern Ireland against those who try to promote their views by violence or threat of violence.

I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend to a post for which he seems singularly well qualified. First, there have been reports during the summer recess of arms finds in Northern Ireland. Can he give the House further details? Secondly, what have the security forces done to try to improve their relationship with local people in Northern Ireland?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. The Royal Ulster Constabulary, ably supported by the Army, is succeeding in arresting a large number of terrorist offenders. As at 10 October this year, 283 people had been charged with terrorist-related offences, including 46 with murder or attempted murder. Moreover, large quantities of firearms, ammunition and explosives are being recovered by the operations of the RUC, so ably supported by the Army. I should further say to my hon. Friend that the relationship between the public and the RUC and the Army has never been better and is improving all the time.

In view of Lady Thatcher's frank admission in her memoirs that the United Kingdom received far better intelligence co-operation from most other European countries than from the Irish republic and her conclusion that the Anglo-Irish Agreement's contribution to security was very limited, is it still the Government's intention to continue, in her words, to refrain from security policies that might alienate the Irish Republic?

I speak for the Government as it is today and I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the co-operation between the Garda and the Royal Ulster Constabulary has never been greater. I have visited many of the border police stations and seen evidence of that co-operation. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that that co-operation will continue.

Bearing in mind the bomb at Cookstown courthouse in my constituency which displaced many elderly people and the recent death in our Province of another constituent of mine, the innocent Annie Bogle, because of the IRA bomb in Castlederg thrown near elderly people, what would the Minister say to my constituents are the steps that the Government intend to take to end the reign of terror that the people of Ulster have suffered for more than 20 years?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the policy of the Government is to use the resources of the RUC and the Army to the fullest extent to arrest and detain the terrorist gangs who commit those abominable crimes. In no circumstances will the Government permit any killing or crime to take place without the fullest investigation and the determined support of the forces of the Crown to prevent those outrages from recurring.

While I appreciate that the Provisional IRA have been the main killers in Northern Ireland over the past 20 years, will the Secretary of State make a statement about the murder gangs of the Ulster Defence Association and the Ulster Volunteer Force? Bearing in mind that almost 30 children in west and north Belfast have been left without a parent over the past few months because of those murder gangs, that thousands of Catholic people, mainly in the Belfast area and beyond, are living in fear and terror, and that, as the House knows, the most recent victims of those murder gangs were Jody Reynolds and Patrick McMahon, will the Secretary of State make a statement?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. As he knows from our recent meeting, I take very seriously such wanton killing of individuals. No matter what the motive, it is evil, wrong and should be opposed. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the Royal Ulster Constabulary will do its utmost to prevent such outrages. Nine people had been charged with serious terrorist offences in the five days from 8 October.

May I seek the Minister's assurance that, despite the row over defence budgeting, not one soldier will be withdrawn from Northern Ireland and the Army will remain properly equipped?

I am glad to repeat the assurances of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, who made it absolutely clear that the Government will continue to devote all resources necessary for security in Northern Ireland. I am glad to confirm that position today.

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how many responses he received to the draft Children (Northern Ireland) Order 1993.

Up until 19pctober, 15 responses had been received from interested organisations and individuals. My noble Friend Lord Arran has recently extended the consultation period by eight weeks to allow all those who wish to express views on the proposal further time to do so.

I welcome the extension, for which we had asked even before this was published, but may we have a sitting of the Northern Ireland Grand Committee to discuss the order, which is one of the most vital to come before the House because it affects the future of many people in Northern Ireland, particularly our future generations?

I am grateful for what the hon. Gentleman has said. It is for the House authorities and principally the Leader of the House to determine whether the Northern Ireland Committee should take heed of what he has asked. I shall draw my right hon. Friend's attention to the request.

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the curriculum in use in Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland has its own distinctive curricular framework based on areas of study. Compulsory subjects are broadly the same as in England and Wales. Arrangements are in place for ongoing monitoring and review of the curriculum, but, in response to teachers' concerns about overload, I have asked the Northern Ireland Curriculum Council to complete a detailed review of the primary curriculum by the end of April 1994.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Will he join me in welcoming the admirable interim report of Sir Ron Dearing, and does he agree that Sir Ron Dearing's concept of the need to equip our children to compete in a world of enormous job challenges from the Pacific rim and from other areas means that there will have to be new and original thinking on the curriculum? Not everything can be tackled, but changes will have to be made, and teachers, parents and children must be ready to accept them in the interests of future generations.

I am grateful for what my hon. Friend has said. He will appreciate that Sir Ron Dearing's review does not extend to Northern Ireland, but, because our systems are similar in many respects, his recommendations will be of much interest to us. I shall certainly want to take account of whatever emerges from his review in considering the best way forward in Northern Ireland.

I welcome the announcement that the Minister made earlier this year that there will be no new programmes of study in the primary school this year, that there will be a review of the curriculum and that there will be a further pilot scheme on assessment. The Minister is establishing a reputation already as a listener, but will he assure the House that the curriculum review will be wide ranging and that account will be taken of the views of teachers, managers in education and parents so that those who ultimately have to deliver the policies that are implemented will have an input in creating those policies and will be committed to them?

I am grateful for what the hon. Gentleman has said. The purpose of the review is to investigate problems and concerns that have arisen in schools, especially in relation to overload. The curriculum council has issued a paper for wide circulation seeking comment on the problems encountered by teachers. It investigates the contributory factors and seeks views on solutions. There will be wide consultation. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman agrees that we do not want unnecessarily to prolong uncertainty. I have, therefore, asked for a report by the end of April. I hope to be able to implement some of its findings in time for next September and most of its finding for the year after.

Under the review, will my hon. Friend ensure that sufficient health education is included in the curriculum?

I will certainly take on board what my hon. Friend says.

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will make a statement on the latest position concerning inter-party talks.

The Government remain determined to promote further political dialogue towards a comprehensive settlement involving the main constitutional parties in Northern Ireland, the Irish Government and ourselves. We are engaged in private bilateral discussions, exploring the basis on which further dialogue can take place.

Would not talks be facilitated by moves in the Republic of Ireland to make its practices more acceptable to Protestants in Northern Ireland, and moves in Northern Ireland to make its practices more acceptable to its Catholic minority? The Opsahl commission has made a number of proposals that may be of considerable benefit. Its report has been discussed throughout the island of Ireland, but discussed little in Britain. Will the Secretary of State ensure that it forms part of the backcloth to tomorrow's debate on Northern Ireland issues, as it may be relevant to the development of talks?

The hon. Gentleman will need to be more particular in his complaints about practices both north and south of the border before I can answer that part of his question. If I am lucky enough to catch the Speaker's eye, I will refer to the Opsahl report in a speech. That is how I prefer to answer the hon. Gentleman's question today.

In a recent television interview, the president of Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA, declared in regard to any possible settlement that the British people and the Government would have to sue for peace, and, moreover, that the Unionist majority in Northern Ireland would not have a decisive say in the future of the Province. Will the Secretary of State comment on that?

I generally do not comment, in the House or elsewhere, on what other people have said. However, I re-emphasise that the Prime Minister made it absolutely clear in his speech at Blackpool that the Government will continue to stand behind the democratic wishes of the people of Northern Ireland. There has been much very understandable and proper talk about self-determination. Whether the present status of Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom is confirmed or changed will depend—and depend alone—on an act of self-determination by the people of Northern Ireland.

Surely the talks that took place betwen the two Governments last year have clarified the parties' position for everyone concerned. Why does the right hon. and learned Gentleman go on talking about further talks when the position is absolutely clear? Is he aware that whenever the word "speculation" appears in denials, the people of Northern Ireland have learnt by bitter experience that usually the speculation is accurate? Is he further aware that the proposals made by the hon. Member for Foyle (Mr. Hume) and Mr. Adams are nothing less than an IRA demand for total surrender to the violence, and the threat of further violence, from the IRA? Will the Government make it clear that they will not surrender to those demands, no matter how much blarney is wrapped around them?

I have not had the advantage of a copy of the text to which the hon. Gentleman refers. At the end of the talks process on 9 November last year, all parties agreed that there was a need for further dialogue. The hon. Gentleman referred to the talks process, but it is further dialogue that everyone agreed should continue, and it is that formulation which I used in my answer. I believe that the people of the Province as a whole share the view that it is important that politicians should sit down and see whether there is any further progress to be made towards the objectives that they all signed up to as long ago as March 1991.

Has the Secretary of State had the opportunity to read, in yesterday's The Irish Times, what is purported to be the outcome of the so-called Hume-Adams initiative? Are the proposals outlined acceptable to the Secretary of State, or does he still stand by his often-repeated remark that self-determination by the people of Northern Ireland will decide the political destiny of the Province?

The latest repetition of my often-repeated remark occurred about 10 seconds ago, just before the hon. Gentleman asked his question, so naturally I stand by it. I think that it is unwise to speculate on a matter that has not been communicated to the British Government. I agree with the four church leaders who said recently, in a joint statement, that they regarded speculation as unhelpful and dangerous.

The Secretary of State is obviously aware of the discussions taking place between my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mr. Hume) and the president of Sinn Fein, in a sincere attempt to end violence and bring peace to the north of Ireland. Will he assure the House that if there is even the slightest chance of peace, he will take the opportunity and not let it slip? Will he assure us that he, as Secretary of State, will not allow short-sighted intransigence, feigned self-righteousness or his Government's deal with the Ulster Unionists to stay in power to stand in the way of the peace that the people of the north of Ireland crave and deserve so much?

One thing is needed to secure the peace desired by everyone in Northern Ireland—and much more widely, I may say. That is a declaration by the Provisional IRA and other terrorists—a declaration that those people mean—that the perpetration of violence is over, and over for good. It is not a question of ceasefires, with the threat of only a temporary relief. I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman's implication that peace in his terms—at any price—should be pursued.

Has my right hon. and learned Friend found the apparent embracing of articles 2 and 3 of the constitution of the Republic by Her Majesty's loyal Opposition, through the agency of the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, North (Mr. McNamara), to be of any assistance whatever in the conduct of the inter-party talks?

I believe that it is generally understood that there is much of a constitutional character to be discussed by the two Governments. It is as well understood by the Government of the Republic as it is by us that articles 2 and 3 have a central part to play in those discussions, and also in the discussions on all three strands with which we were concerned last year.

I was interested to note that the Secretary of State was able to question the tone only of a report of the speech. At his request and that of his office, a copy was sent to him yesterday. If he had read it, he would have seen it clearly stated that both articles 2 and 3 and the Government of Ireland Act 1920—which have been bones of contention between the two different communities in Northern Ireland—should be on the table for discussion.

I think that it is entirely for the participants in the process to decide by what rule they should proceed. For my part, I believe that it is clear that to assemble around the table again immediately would be counter-productive; I believe that the right process now is to explore, in bilateral discussions with the other parties, how we can best take matters forward.

"We also recognise that critics will claim that our model of shared authority is undemocratic because it will initially have to be imposed against the wishes of a majority of Northern Ireland's citizens. We reply first of all that Northern Ireland, at present, is not a legitimate unit of democratic decision-making and rests on coercion."

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what assessment he has made of the proposals for the Down group of hospitals in Downpatrick, County Down, put forward by the Eastern health and social services board; and if he will make a statement.

I am aware that there is much concern about the future of the Down group of hospitals. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Eastern health and social services board expects to publish its strategy on acute hospital services in the near future. That will be sent to my noble Friend Lord Arran, who will examine it carefully before deciding whether to endorse it.

I thank the Minister for his reply, which was perhaps inadvertently slightly disingenuous, in that the Eastern health board report is already complete and is in the Department of Health and Social Services. The Department and the Minister will make the decision de facto, not de jure. When his ministerial colleague considers that report, will he take notice of all the community concerns and uphold the effective and cost-effective general and maternity provision that is made in the Down district hospital? Will he also bear in mind the enormous economic and social consequences that an adverse decision would engender for Down district and do his utmost to ensure that accessibility, with the group provision that we already have, will be the basis of the eventual decision?

I am very much aware of the importance of the Downe hospital to the people of Downpatrick and district. I am well aware of the concerns that exist there, as is my noble Friend Lord Arran. I have to say, however, that the report to which I refer—I referred to it earlier—was that by which the Eastern and Southern boards have chosen to implement their area strategies with separate documents for acute hospital services. That is not yet before my noble Friend Lord Arran. When it is, he will give it due consideration.

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what steps he is taking to promote the economy of Northern Ireland.

The Government are helping to strengthen the Northern Ireland economy through measures intended to make business more competitive. We are helping companies to identify and remove obstacles to growth; encouraging inward investment; building up management and work force skills; developing an enterprise culture; and supporting innovation, research and development.

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is in the interests of all concerned fully to support the Government's policies in Northern Ireland and that the prosperity of Northern Ireland is of vital imporance, not only to everyone in the British Isles, but to investors overseas?

It is important to support not only Government policies in Northern Ireland, but Government policies generally.

Although I congratulate the Minister on the foreign investment and the extra jobs that have been brought into Northern Ireland recently by him and his Department, may I ask him to set up representatives from his own Department, the IDB and the Local Enterprise Development Unit, to discuss ways of better helping local inventors and entrepreneurs? If those products were properly developed, more local jobs would be created in Northern Ireland.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for mentioning the subject, which he and his hon. Friend the Member for Londonderry, East (Mr. Ross) have already drawn to my attention. It is worth recording that about 90 per cent. of IDB funds are spent on existing companies in Northern Ireland—small ones through LEDU, progressing to IDB, growing into successful companies, which have become extremely important in United Kingdom terms. However, if there are cases that he would like me to consider, affecting his constituents or anyone else, I should be more than happy to consider them.

Is the Minister aware that the privatisations of Harland and Wolff, of Short Brothers and, more recently, of Northern Ireland Electricity—which were all bitterly resisted by Opposition Members—have been extremely successful? Surely that shows that what Northern Ireland needs is not less privatisation but more.

The first time that I visited Northern Ireland the cranes of Harland and Wolff were absolutely static and I saw nothing happening, Shorts were struggling to find investment and other companies were in a similar position. Since privatisation, the two companies to which my hon. Friend referred have become enormously successful. Shorts recently celebrated its 85th anniversary with a massive order worth about £70 million and Harland and Wolff is going from strength to strength and is making some fine ships again—so, my hon. Friend is entirely right. The more that we can do to encourage private sector involvement in what were public sector companies, the better it will be for the economy of Northern Ireland.

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will give the latest figures for the total number of homeless people in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement.

I am advised by the chief executive of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive that on 1 October 1993, 441 households were living in temporary accommodation secured for them under the homelessness provisions of the Housing (Northern Ireland) Order 1988.

Is it not the case that in Northern Ireland the number of people in urgent need of rehousing is increasing, that the number of people with the most urgent need—those in the A1 category—is also increasing, and that a large number of other people have been defined out of existence as homeless by Housing Executive procedures? Is it not becoming more and more difficult to get a home in Northern Ireland?

The simple answer to almost all those questions is no. In the past 12 years, urgent housing has dropped from something like 19,000 to 10,000. The Housing Executive has a large amount of money to invest in housing of one form or another. It is with no sense of complacency that I recall for the benefit of the House that Northern Ireland does not have as great a problem as other parts of the United Kingdom. That is thanks to the sterling efforts of the Housing Executive at all levels. It is relatively easy to get a house in Northern Ireland, if the need is proved.

Will the Minister review the homelessness legislation, in the light of a series of recent incidents in my constituency? A family, already believed by their neighbours on the estate to be responsible for vandalising and burning down a dozen houses to steal the fittings, last Tuesday set fire to their own house and have been rehoused by the Housing Executive, which even paid their removal expenses because it is so scared of legal actions being taken against it under the homelessness legislation that it will not take a proper stand. Surely something should be done to ensure that the legislation not only caters for the genuinely homeless but does not let criminal elements exploit it in such a way.

I am greatly disturbed by what the hon. Gentleman has said about a specific case, but we cannot deal with the matter on the Floor of the House, as the hon. Gentleman will understand. If he wishes to write to me with details, or to contact my office, I shall be more than happy to ask the chairman of the Housing Executive to look into the matter.

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what is the proportion of regular troops of the British Army to full-time RUC officers currently serving in Northern Ireland; and how long he expects that proportion to remain.

On 31 August 1993, there were 11,659 full-time police officers, including full-time reservists, and 14,770 members of the regular Army, including full-time members of the Royal Irish Regiment, serving in Northern Ireland. There are therefore approximately nine policemen for every 11 soldiers. Manpower levels are kept under regular review.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. Does he accept that the security situation in Northern Ireland gives little ground for optimism? Does he further accept that the British Army has a justifiably high reputation for counter-terrorist expertise and operations, which members of the RUC, excellent though the men and women of that organisation may be, are neither trained nor recruited for? Does he consider that some of the military resources to which he referred earlier are not being properly used in the Province? Might he not, therefore, consider whether greater military input into tactical operations and strategic planning might lead to a better resolution of the security situation there?

I know that my hon. Friend comes from a background of military service and therefore his views are to be respected, but it is for the Chief Constable of the Royal Ulster Constabulary to determine the deployment of the police and other security services in Northern Ireland. The Army works in association with the RUC and I can assure my hon. Friend that its present role is extremely effective. I do not accept his contention that the present security situation gives little ground for optimism. Far from it—earlier this afternoon I told the House about the continuing success of the RUC, supported by the Army, in arresting terrorist gangs and seizing arms and explosives.

In agreement with the hon. Member for Blaby (Mr. Robathan), does the Minister feel that the statements ill-advisedly made by a former Defence Minister are seriously flawed, and that, henceforth, the decisions on troop deployments and manning levels should be decided by the GOC and the Chief Constable, particularly as it has now been confirmed by Baroness Thatcher that the co-operation of the Irish Republic has been extremely disappointing, a view which she was prepared to state while she was head of the Government of which many present on the Front Bench were members?

I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that the forces in Northern Ireland will be there and available in accordance with the security threat and as decided by the GOC and the Chief Constable.

To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 21 October.

I have been asked to reply.

Bearing in mind that deregulation will be the central plank of Government policy in the new Session of Parliament, will the Leader of the House comment on the case of my constituent Mr. Raymond Townend, who was killed while working on a resurfacing project on the M62 when he was knocked over by a lorry earlier this year? Is the Leader of the House as surprised as I was to learn that the lorry which reversed over Mr. Townend was not required by law to have reversing lights, to have a reversing alarm or to have the manoeuvre supervised by a person other than the driver? Can the Leader of the House understand why Mr. Townend's widow and four children are less than impressed by the Government's theme of deregulation and want more regulation to avoid such tragedies in future?

I am sure, first of all, that the whole House will recognise the seriousness with which the hon. Gentleman has made that point, and will understand why he felt it right to raise it, in view of what happened to his constituent, and we extend our sympathy. While he is right to say—and I believe that the. Government are right—that the Government are to make deregulation a central plank of their policies for the period ahead, there is no question whatever of that policy extending to the removal or reversal of necessary protection for the safety of people.

Does my right hon. Friend agree with me that, if young thugs are old enough to break into homes and punch pensioners, they are old enough to be locked up?

I very much agree with my hon. Friend. My right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary's proposals in that respect have drawn support from all round the country. As the House will be aware, he has announced plans for secure units for 12 to 14-year-old persistent offenders and to increase the possible maximum sentence for 15-year-old offenders. I repeat, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has repeated, that we put the protection of the public first.

Does the Lord President accept that national insurance contributions are a tax on income—yes or no?

National insurance contributions, as the right hon. Lady, who is a former social security spokesman, knows perfectly well, are part of the national insurance scheme which relates to the entitlement of benefits established by the Labour Government in 1948.

Is the Lord President denying that national insurance contributions are a tax on income, yes or no?

National insurance contributions are the means by which people obtain entitlement to certain benefits, including, most notably, retirement pensions. The level of contributions is related to the demands on the fund, and the demands on the fund include the Government's policies to increase pensions in the way that we have over the past few years.

Is not it a fact that there is no effective difference between a 1p in the pound increase in income tax and a 1p in the pound increase in national insurance contributions when it comes to the effect on the pay packet? Next April, the Government, and all those now making a noise from the Government Back Benches who voted for it, are putting up both taxes on income and spending and do not have the guts to admit it.

There is a clear difference, which the right hon. Lady has obviously missed in what I have already said: national insurance contributions are related to the provision of an entitlement at a later stage. I shall say to her—and she knows it very well—that there would have been a whole lot less difference if the policies advocated by the Opposition Front Bench at the last election had been put into force and the upper earnings limit had been scrapped, because then it would have been the same as income tax.

Will my right hon. Friend join me in extending the sympathy of the whole House to the family of police constable Patrick Dunne, who lost his life last night defending the lives of the people of London? Will he discuss with my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary ways in which the Metropolitan police, and indeed every other police force in this country, can be made more secure in carrying out their difficult and dangerous job? Does he agree that every police officer in this country does not have a job for life, but they frequently give their life for the job?

The reaction of the whole House will show that everybody heard with deep regret of the death of police constable Dunne in south London last night. Everybody will share my hon. Friend's outrage that a community constable should be shot dead in that fashion while going about his duty in a way that we take for, granted. My right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary, who, happily, is close to me at this moment, will have heard what my hon. Friend said and will wish to respond appropriately.

To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 21 October.

I have been asked to reply.

The Lord President will recall the answer that the Prime Minister gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Warley, West (Mr. Spellar) on Tuesday. Therefore, will he tell the House what particular cheese and wine party it was at which Asil Nadir gave £440,000 to the Tory party, and will he explain how much cheese and wine it will take to account for the £70 million missing from Tory party funds?

I do not know that I am expert on all the guest lists for wine and cheese parties. It may be that, at this very moment, in Cyprus, Mr. Nadir is having lunch with Mr. Costa, the benefactor of the previous leader of the Labour party.

To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 21 October.

I have been asked to reply.

Will my right hon. Friend condemn" those who were responsible for the violence in south-east London last Saturday at the anti-British National party march, and express sympathy to those who were injured and those who had property damaged as a result of that violence? Will he join me in congratulating the police on the magnificent job that they did on that occasion, and urge my right hon. and learned Friend the Home Secretary to consider the whole issue of the BNP in Welling and see what can be done about it?

Again, the House will understand why my hon. Friend raises a point of such concern in his constituency and I have a great deal of sympathy with what he said. All of us would want to deplore the violence that marred the march last Saturday just as much as we would want to deplore the policies of the British National party.

Has the Leader of the House seen the statement this week from the heads of all the royal medical colleges in which they say that, because of the Government's market reforms to the health service, urgent cases are being denied treatment and that the patients of fund holders are being given priority over those with clinical need? Does he understand that my constituents are being denied treatment at the Good Hope hospital because all routine admissions have been stopped except for those from GP fund holders? Is not that a disgrace? Is not that a two-tier health service? What will the Government do about it?

I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's suggestions. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health, in conjunction with the Joint Consultants Committee, has issued advice about the way in which emergency cases should be given priority, which does not fit with what the hon. Gentleman has said. The NHS reforms are producing a large and substantial increase in activity in the health service and in the number of patients treated, and are reducing the number of those waiting a long time for treatment. They are successful and they will be made more successful.

To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 21 October.

I have been asked to reply.

Can my right hon. Friend explain why some people seem to see a lurch to the right? Could it be that they keep hearing good news about the economy, such as car production up 15 per cent. in September, retail sales up in September, unemployment down in September, rising confidence in manufacturing industry and, if I may say so, 60 new jobs at Trebor Bassett in my constituency?

As my hon. Friend's constituency is next to mine and I live only about half a mile away from it, I welcome his last point. I hope that some of the jobs may spread across the border. I also agree entirely that the House will be pleased at the increasing flow of good economic news, particularly that to which he referred—the rise in car production, the rise in retail sales and the fact that unemployment has once again fallen.

To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 21 October.

I have been asked to reply.

Is it Harry? [Interruption.]

Thank you for that warm welcome.

Order. I certainly recognise the hon. Gentleman and so does the entire House.

Thank you for those kind words, Madam Speaker.

As I think those on both sides of the House know very well, the amount of investment in the public transport infrastructure, rail and other, that has been advanced in recent years under what the hon. Gentleman chooses to call this Tory Government, has been at high, indeed record, levels. I am sure that we shall continue to maintain all possible investment, while taking account, obviously, of other requirements as well.

To ask the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for Thursday 21 October.

I have been asked to reply.

My right hon. Friend will recall that four years ago the IRA carried out a terrible crime in my constituency, at the Royal Marines school of music in Deal. Eleven people were killed and many more were seriously injured. I met some of them, and saw in my constituency on Saturday someone who is still suffering seriously from his injuries. The people of Deal dearly love the Royal Marines school of music and hope that it will stay there for many years to come. Can my right hon. Friend assure the House that in any review of marine and military bands, every effort will be made to create a combined military services school of music at Deal, so that we may demonstrate to the world that the IRA will never succeed in its dastardly crimes?

I am sure that the House will understand if once again—and this has happened several times this afternoon—I simply acknowledge why my hon. Friend felt it necessary to make that important point on behalf of his constituents and, almost as if I were answering business questions, to undertake to draw his remarks to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister.