To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received about the impact on the local economy of the market-testing exercise at RAF Valley. [26031]

Several, and of course my right hon. Friend met the hon. Gentleman and a delegation from the area last week.

I thank the Minister for that reply. I also thank the Secretary of State for meeting the delegation from my constituency last week. I am sure that the Secretary of State will agree that we put forward an extremely strong case for the retention of jobs at RAF Valley and for requesting the Ministry of Defence to phase in its proposals for market testing, otherwise it will be very difficult for us to compete effectively in an area of high unemployment.

My right hon. Friend is certainly more than willing to ensure that our colleagues at the Ministry of Defence are fully aware of the case being put forward. I think that the hon. Gentleman will agree that the training and enterprise council is undertaking a useful skills audit. That audit and any other points that are raised must be considered carefully so that the RAF's operational needs can be best met while, at the same time, seeking to ensure as much local employment as possible.

I endorse the views of the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Mr. Jones) and I assure the Minister that the campaign on behalf of RAF Valley has the full support of Opposition Front Benchers.

The Ministry of Defence's announcement comes under the consultation arrangements and I assure the hon. Gentleman that the Welsh Office is fully involved in that consultation process. We have already agreed a deferment with the Ministry of Defence, in that the consultation period will now be extended until the end of June. I am sure that that time will be used very effectively to ensure that all the points are considered properly.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many people are currently unemployed (a) in Wales and (b) in Alyn and Deeside. [26032]

In April 1995, there were 108,094 unemployed people in Wales and 2,458 unemployed in the district of Alyn and Deeside. Those figures are well down on those for last year and we wish to see them go even lower.

I remind the right hon. Gentleman of the loss of 140 jobs at NK International in my constituency and the loss of some 350 jobs at Kilroe Engineering this month. On that basis, will he consider granting development area status to my constituency? In that context, will he pledge his Department's and his Government's assistance with regard to Raytheon Jets' proposal to build a service station at Broughton in my constituency? Will he join me in trying to save hundreds of existing jobs?

The hon. Gentleman of course has my assurance that I will do anything within my legal powers to help with the Raytheon situation. He knows that I have intervened in the past, and I am happy to do so again to try to promote the area. I think that Raytheon can get a lot of good work from the very talented and skilled work force already in the area. The hon. Gentleman has my assurance on that point.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is still scope for creating new jobs in the countryside in Wales as a whole and in the constituency of the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mr. Jones)? Does my right hon. Friend think it is fair that England has been promised a White Paper on the rural economy? Why is Wales being sold short? Why did the White Paper not include the subjects of Wales or forestry, which is an important industry for Wales? Can my right hon. Friend guarantee to the House that any initiatives or incentives that are available to England as a result of the White Paper's recommendations will be available to Wales also?

My hon. Friend is quite right: if good initiatives are being introduced in England that we are not already undertaking in Wales, we would want to adopt them in Wales as well. I give him that assurance again, as I have in the past to the House. My officials are keeping in close contact with the work in England. Of course, we had already set out a policy in Wales some time before the English initiative; but if there are good new ideas, I want Wales to be included in them. [Interruption.]

As the newly unemployed in Wales will soon be losing their income support and mortgage assistance, does the Secretary of State's call at the Welsh Tory party conference at the weekend for the home-owning quiet majority to be celebrated, and not taxed, mean that he is breaking ranks with the rest of the Cabinet on the issue, as on so many other Government policies?

No, I am not. The hon. Gentleman took a long time to remember his silly point today, which is why he sat on the Front Bench for such a long time after you called him, Madam Speaker. I am strongly in favour of every policy that the Government are putting forward. Of course, we believe in home ownership, unlike the Opposition, who undermined home owners whenever possible when they were in government.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has made to ensure that track services in Wales are maintained in the event of rail privatisation. [26033]

My right hon. Friend and I have met the franchising director and I have also met the chairman of Railtrack plc.

Does the Minister realise that services are threatened not only by privatisation but by the Government's dithering while privatisation is being discussed? When will the Welsh Office decide where the new freight depot will be in south Wales, if we are to have one? I have written to the Welsh Office supporting the Pengam site, but whether it is Pengam or Magor, the decision needs to be taken rapidly. Welsh business depends on it.

I would rush to reassure the hon. Gentleman that there is no dithering about the rail freight depot in south Wales; we look forward to a decision being taken. Nor is there any dithering on privatisation generally, which undoubtedly will bring tremendous benefits to the rail travellers of Britain.

Does the Minister agree that for track services through central Wales to be viable, it is essential for Regional Railways Central to provide a decent standard of service for passengers? Does he agree that a service that provides no on-station information, lavatories or telephones, and, at times when one expects tourists, leaves literally hundreds of people standing in inadequate trains, is not of an acceptable standard?

The hon. and learned Gentlemen does exactly my job for me: he makes the case for privatisation. There has not been the incentive to provide that service before, because the passenger has not been key. In future, the passenger will be key.

Does the Minister not accept that in the south Wales valleys in particular the general morphology militates against effective communications? [HON. MEMBERS: "Morphology?"] It is the shape of the valleys—something that hon. Members might not understand. It militates against effective communication and transport problems. Will he ensure that, in the unlikely event of privatisation, there is effective investment in track maintenance as well as the maintenance of services?

Investment is specifically the responsibility of Railtrack, but I certainly do not accept the surmise of the hon. Gentleman's question and I have a very good basis for that. As he will know, two of the valleys lines run through my constituency of Cardiff, North. The hon. Gentleman's constituents and mine will benefit by the removal of restrictions and increasing incentives, which will lead to a better service for passengers using the valley lines and all railways.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales who in his Department is responsible for the Government's fundamental review of public spending; and if he will make a statement. [26034]

I am responsible for reviewing public spending in Wales and for reporting on it to the House. I have especially concentrated on reducing overheads in the Welsh Office and in quangos. Any conclusions from general UK reviews will be incorporated in Wales where appropriate.

I thank my right hon. Friend for putting himself in charge—unlike in some Departments, where officials are expected to take a lead. Does my right hon. Friend agree that control of public expenditure has gone hand in hand with a dramatic revival of the Wales economy? Would not Labour's determination to increase public expenditure put that revival at risk?

Yes. Of course unreasonable increases in public expenditure would threaten the recovery. It would mean borrowing too much, which would force up interest rates and damage business, or taxing too much, which would also damage business—or a combination of the two. That is exactly why some Labour Members are now extremely shy about saying that they believe in more public spending, while others—as we well know—are full of plans to spend more. Meantime, I am pleased to say that the overheads of the Countryside Council for Wales and of the Welsh Office are this year coming down by almost £2 million and £1.7 million respectively. The overheads of the Welsh Development Agency will be £1.9 million lower than two years ago.

As the Secretary of State is responsible for those estimates, I wonder whether he is responsible for his statement to the Tory party conference at the weekend suggesting £100 million expenditure by Labour on a Welsh Assembly. Will the right hon. Gentleman explain to the House, nation and Principality how he came to assume that figure?

The hon. Gentleman will have to contain his excitement. I am completing my estimate of the likely cost of such an assembly and will release it shortly. I made no statement at the Conservative conference—although occasionally there is inspired journalism in Wales. I suspect that the figure will not be far from that rumoured, but I have not yet completed my estimate. I shall release it shortly.

In welcoming the expenditure reductions achieved by my right hon. Friend, may I ask him what steps he is taking to reduce administration costs in the health service, so that the maximum money can be spent on patient care?

As my hon. Friend may know, we are about to lower the number of health authorities from 17 to five, which will make a material reduction in the health administrative overhead at health authority level. We are now seeing fruits from the changes that I introduced to recruitment procedures for administration and management in general, which will be welcomed on both sides of the House. I have also taken a particular interest in consultancy expenditure throughout the Welsh Office, which has fallen from £1.45 million the previous year to £800,000. If we manage to keep up the pressure, I hope that that figure will reduce further.

Instead of kow-towing to every planted, uninspired question from every sioni siencyn on the Government Benches, will the Secretary of State put time into getting his figures right in respect of spurious estimates, such as that for a Welsh Parliament? Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that the cost of running both Chambers of the Irish Parliament this year will be £28 million and that the New Zealand Parliament costs £40 million a year? If that is the extent of the understanding of figures in the Welsh Office, is it not a good explanation of why the Government's financial controls are out of sync and unacceptable to the people of these islands?

The hon. Gentleman will have to wait for my forecast. I shall set out exactly how it was compiled, so that the people of Wales can reach their own judgment on whether I have underdone it or overdone it.

I refer the Secretary of State to recent remarks by the former Prime Minister, Lady Thatcher, in which she criticised the Government for failing to control public expenditure and for being the highest taxing Government since the war. Is that not another demonstration of how hopelessly split the Conservative party is? As its leaders no longer have confidence in each other, why on earth should the country have confidence in them? Lady Thatcher claims that she still has supporters in the Cabinet. Why does the Secretary of State not have the honesty to admit that he is one of them—or does he still profess loyalty to the present Prime Minister?

Of course I support the present Prime Minister, and I am pleased that the Government are setting out to reduce public expenditure as a proportion of gross national product—in a way that is painful to the Labour party, because it means that we shall be able to deliver our promises to start lowering taxation while producing high-quality public services. The economy is now growing, which is, of course, the secret of success.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what is the current number of unemployed in Wales; and what was the figure in December 1992. [26035]

In April 1995, the seasonally adjusted figures for Wales were 106,900, compared with 133,400 in December 1992. This represents a fall of 26,500, or one fifth, in the unemployed total.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer, showing that there has been a 20 per cent. reduction in unemployment in Wales. Does he agree that that is due to inward investment, which has been encouraged by Wales as part of the United Kingdom's having a low corporate rate of tax, no national minimum wage and no social chapter? Does he believe that that would be helped if Wales had a Welsh Assembly, which would make it one of the most over-governed countries in the world?

On the contrary: it would put a lot of investors off, at home and abroad. The growth has come about from domestic companies and from inward investment. It has been marked in small companies and in self-employment, as well as in the larger inward investors. They all benefit from our attitude to decent wages and social costs under sensible control.

The Department of Employment recently provided me with a list of all job vacancies advertised in Blaenau Gwent, and their hourly wage rates. The average hourly wage rate for those vacancies was just over £3. Can the Secretary of State inform families in my constituency how they can bring up children on that kind of money?

If that were the sole income coming into a family, it would clearly need supplementing—it would probably be supplemented by the benefit system. But it would be even crueller to make those sorts of jobs illegal so that the people currently enjoying them could not even have them. Doing that would not suddenly lead to a doubling of wages—the jobs would disappear altogether.

Will the Secretary of State cast his mind across to 600 of those jobs, created in the electronics industry, and look carefully at the plight in which Race Electronics in my constituency finds itself? The company has been at the leading edge of burgeoning Welsh electronics production but faces dire difficulties at the moment.

Yes, of course I shall look at that. I have already asked for more information and briefing on the problem of that company. I am told that there is a reasonable chance that the business will continue, and that it is hoped that a new buyer will be found to take it on. I am told that there is some strength in the underlying business. I hope that that is true; I shall make further inquiries and keep the hon. Gentleman posted.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what measures he will take to safeguard the position of smaller district general hospitals; and if he will make a statement. [26036]

I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 16 January 1995, Official Report, column 303. Any substantial change in the use of a hospital requires extensive public consultation before it can be put into effect. If the proposals for change do not secure the agreement of local community health councils, they must be referred to my right hon. Friend for decision.

I hope that the Minister is aware that Bronglais hospital in Aberystwyth is the smallest district general hospital in England or Wales—or, indeed, in most of the United Kingdom—and that its resulting higher unit costs are liable to put it at something of a competitive disadvantage. Is he further aware of the chronic underfunding of capital works in the Ceredigion and Mid-Wales NHS trust, and that this, in addition to the other factor, could lead to a gradual spiral of decline in the scope and quality of the provision of services in the hospital and the trust? Will he undertake to have a careful look at the funding situation and ensure, following careful study, that no such decline occurs—bearing in mind the key strategic importance of Aberystwyth as a centre on the west coast of Wales?

As I am sure the hon. Gentleman is aware, I visited the Bronglais hospital in Aberystwyth—it was my first visit on being appointed a Minister at the Welsh Office. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we look carefully at the provision of services and the purchasing of those services by health authorities. We shall obviously keep an eye on the way in which Dyfed health authority purchases services for the hon. Gentleman's constituents.

May I ask the Minister to examine the provision of services in Aberdare general hospital? Although there has been general consultation in the Cynon valley, there is grave dissatisfaction with the failure of the health authority to give dates for the reopening of wards. In addition, the authority has failed to give assurances that day surgery will be carried out under general anaesthetic at the hospital, as it was in the past. What was once a thriving general hospital is now gradually running down. That has happened while the Minister has had responsibility for health in Wales. I ask him to examine these issues as a matter of urgency.

The provision of health care and services in Wales is better than it has ever been. I am sure that the hon. Lady has the wherewithal to take up individual cases with the appropriate health authority.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales when he last met local authority associations in Wales to discuss the reorganisation services following the setting up of the shadow authorities. [26037]

My right hon. Friend and I last met both the local authority associations on 18 January 1994 when a range of issues relating to local government and reorganisation was discussed.

Does the Minister agree that there is widespread concern in Wales about the proposed reorganisation of the fire service? Does he accept that the proposed reorganisation is opposed by those who work in the service, by the eight fire authorities and by all the new 22 unitary authorities? Does he accept also that there is now a case to re-examine the proposal to ensure that there is consensus among the people of Wales on a vital service?

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman about the importance of fire brigades throughout Wales. I know well that the proposals that are now being made will be most carefully studied to ensure that there is no reduction in the level of services that the fire brigades in Wales provide.

When the new unitary authorities are in place, will there be anything to stop the new councillors from quadrupling their allowances and expenses?

My hon. Friend puts his finger on a most important problem—that of trying to curb the natural tendencies of Labour councillors to do what they do rather than what they profess to say they will do.

Does the Minister appreciate that, by independent assessment, the Gwent fire service has been judged to be the most effective response force in the country? Is it not logical, therefore, to leave it as an independent force, preferably conterminous with the new police authority—that is, Gwent plus the Rhymney Valley? That would surely make far more sense than lumping the Gwent fire service with other local services.

I fully share the hon. Gentleman's regard for the importance of the standards that are being achieved by the Gwent force. I have complete confidence that there will be no changes that will result in any reduction of the levels of service that must be achieved, are being achieved and, I am sure, will continue to be achieved in Gwent and elsewhere in Wales.

When the Minister met representatives of local government in Wales, did he take some time to praise education authorities—especially Labour ones—for the pioneering work that they are doing in providing nursery education, which is achieving far better provision than the average for the rest of the United Kingdom?

I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman has pre-empted Question 9, tabled by the hon. Member for Newport, West (Mr. Flynn), which relates exactly to nursery education. I suggest that he bide his time and wait until that question is reached. In the meanwhile, I content myself with the observation that I notice that all education authorities in Wales have made sufficient provision in their education funding, despite their fears and claims beforehand, to ensure that the teachers' pay increase is paid in full in each of the eight education authorities in Wales, and that they are now turning their attention to increasing allowances for councillors.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales when the consultation period referred to in his recent announcement of the Welsh Office's aim to vary local authority boundaries is to commence; and if he will make a statement. [26038]

The consultation period ended on 5 May 1995 and we are now currently giving our consideration to all the representations.

I thank the Minister for that reply, but ensconced as he is in the morphology of Cardiff, North, he will be pathetically out of touch with Welsh public opinion. The fact is that there are now fewer councillors under the unitary authority system than there are people on his quangos. Does he realise that that is a very bad thing for democracy and that the people of Wales view it with dismay and, indeed, disgust? May I tell him that in no circumstances will the people of Wales put up with any more gerrymandering to lessen the number of democratically elected people in Wales?

I waited patiently to try to hear a question from the hon. Gentleman, but I do not think that I have heard one. I would correct him on one of his factual errors. Yes, my right hon. Friend makes appointments to quangos; he made some 850 appointments. That is significantly less than the number of councillors in the new unitary authorities in Wales. I note the insult from Plaid Cymru towards the capital city of Wales. The hon. Gentleman cannot possibly suggest that Cardiff, North is out of touch with public opinion in the Principality.

Is the Minister aware that local authorities, our councillors, our electorates, are going through a period of great turmoil as a result of local government reorganisation and unitary authorities? In those circumstances, is there not a case for slowing down the usual work of the Local Government Commission, in terms of councillors per seat, so that the existing structure can be more consolidated?

I am sure that the work that is being taken forward by the commission will be at a wholly appropriate speed for the reorganisation of local government in Wales. As I said, in answer to the Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr. Llwyd), we are considering the responses to the consultation. We are looking closely at the number of councillors; I do not expect to see any significant reduction in their number. We are certainly giving close consideration to whether there should be any overall limit to the number of councillors on each council.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what new proposals he has to improve nursery education provision. [26039]

The Government are committed to ensuring that a pre-school place is available for every four-year-old whose parents want to take it up. We are currently considering how that commitment can best be implemented in Wales.

Why are the children of parents who live in Labour-controlled local authorities three times more likely to get places in nursery schools than the children of parents who live in Conservative-controlled authorities? Why is it that in the county of Berkshire, where Wokingham is situated, fewer than one third of the children enjoy nursery education, yet in the county of Gwent, where Newport is situated, three quarters of the children enjoy that provision? How dare the Government say that they are about to start on a crusade in education—16 years late? Would it not be better for the people of Wales and Wokingham, when the glorious day arrives and my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Davies) becomes Secretary of State for Wales, if my right hon. Friend also took over the duty as governor-general of Wokingham?

Berkshire is a Liberal-Labour-controlled local authority. I think that that is called an own goal. Conservative Members certainly recognise the benefits of pre-school education. The hon. Gentleman can be certain of one thing: when it is introduced in Wales, there will be diversity and choice. He is certainly one person who could have benefited from pre-school education. Indeed, he might even benefit from it now.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what proposals he has for advancing open government in Wales. [26040]

The Welsh Office has published and distributed widely a bilingual leaflet that explains how to make a request for information under the code of practise on access to government information. A bilingual code has also been published on openness in the NHS.

In that case, will the Minister investigate whether the code and those principles apply to his own Department, given that, on 2 March, in the debate on Welsh affairs—at column 1236—the Secretary of State said that the Countryside Council for Wales had been given perfectly adequate funds to meet its statutory requirements. The fact is, however, that the council had appealed privately to the Secretary of State because it did not have adequate funds even to meet its minimum requirements, let alone for what it wanted to do.

The hon. Gentleman is poorly informed. The Countryside Council for Wales was given more and, indeed, subsequently confirmed that it had had enough. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman return to his basic data and, if he so wishes, write to the council. I am sure that, under the code of practice, it will give him the accurate information that he so direly needs.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales what are the latest figures for economic activity rates for (a) the south Wales valleys, (b) Wales and (c) Britain. [26041]

I am advised that the latest figures that we have for the south Wales valleys for economically active rates come from the 1991 census of population. At that time the figure was 52.9 per cent. We have more up-to-date figures from the 1994–95 labour survey for Wales and Great Britain, which stood at 57.2 per cent. and 62.4 per cent.

The Welsh Office regularly claims that unemployment in Wales is now down to the British average, and we welcome that; but the unemployment figure tells only part of the story. When economic activity rates are taken into account—especially in the old industrial areas—about 15 per cent. can be added to the male unemployment figure, partly because of early retirement but mainly because people have been encouraged to take invalidity benefit wherever applicable.

No, I do not accept that. I think that the right hon. Gentleman is trying to sidestep the fact that unemployment is very low in his part of Wales, which is welcome. In the Carmarthen travel-to-work area, it is 4.7 per cent.; in the Llandeilo travel-to-work area, it is 5 per cent. Many hon. Members would love to have such low levels of unemployment in their constituencies: they show that our policies have been successful.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many patients were treated by the NHS in (a) 1979 and (b) 1994. [26042]

The national health service in Wales saw 633,000 new out-patients and treated 739,000 in-patients and day cases in 1994–95, compared with 429,000 and 381,000 respectively in 1979.

I welcome that incredible increase, but will my right hon. Friend assure the House that the money secured through any future modifications and savings in the NHS in Wales will be spent directly on patient care and not on dancing to the music of the paymasters of many Opposition Members, the health unions in Wales?

Of course we wish to concentrate the money on patient care. One of the reasons for the success in treating so many more patients is that we have targeted much more money on ensuring that patients come first, and that more treatment is available for them. That is the overriding priority, and one that I intend to continue.

If the Secretary of State really believes that health services are improving under the Conservatives, is he living on planet Portillo or possibly planet Redwood?

That be the lamest silly question that we have heard all day, and probably for many weeks, in the House of Commons. Of course I put the interests of patients first. Of course I am proud to come to the House and ask for more money for the national health service in Wales, which it has needed and which it has been given. As the hon. Gentleman knows, I am also keen to ensure that health services in his region are improved by new investment as well as the additional commitment of people and new treatments. That is what we shall do. The hon. Gentleman's cheap debating points demean him and the House.

To ask the Secretary of State for Wales how many jobs have been created as a result of inward investment over the past five years; what were the figures for 1974 to 1979; and if he will make a statement. [26043]

Figures for 1974 to 1979 are not available. In the past five years, 852 inward investment projects have been recorded, promising almost 38,000 new jobs and capital investment of £4.5 billion. Those figures are a clear illustration of the importance of inward investment to Wales.

I congratulate my hon. Friends on those remarkable figures. Is it not amazing that the Labour Government from 1974 to 1979 did not record their figures? No doubt they had nothing to record. My hon. Friend should continue to go for it: it must be good for jobs, good for Wales and good for the whole of Britain.

I am most grateful for my hon. Friend's congratulations. They give me the opportunity to explode another myth being peddled by the Opposition—that the jobs being brought to Wales are cheap, part-time jobs for women. They are not: the manufacturing employment pay figures show that males are now on 99.9 per cent. of the United Kingdom average, and females in manufacturing in Wales are earning above the UK average.

To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what response he will make to the technology foresight panels' recommendations for additional spending on Government-funded research and development. [26055]

I have announced a technology foresight challenge fund, totalling £80 million, to which my Department will contribute half during the next three years.

Will the Chancellor confirm that his Government's "Forward Look" figures show that, between 1986 and projected spend in 1996, the Government will have taken almost £1 billion out of the science and technology budget? Are not the Government taking money out of science and technology in lorryloads and giving it back in jam jars?

I do not accept that at all. The science budget, for which I am responsible, has increased by more than 30 per cent. in real terms in the past 16 years. As to the science and technology spend throughout Government, in all Departments, the hon. Lady will be aware of the effects of the review of defence spending and, indeed, the effects of the launch aid in the aerospace industry and several other factors.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that, in recognising the important impact of the technology foresight process, we should pay great tribute to Sir William Stewart, who retired last week as chief scientific adviser, who played an enormous part in making that such a great success in the wider sphere of Government scientific policy and was also a great pleasure to work with?

I welcome the opportunity to pay tribute to the five years of distinguished service that Sir William Stewart gave as chief scientific adviser to the Government and as head of the Office of Science and Technology. His vision and leadership were instrumental in the successful establishment of the Office of Science and Technology and, with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, in the publication of the White Paper, "Realising our Potential", which was so well received both within and outside the scientific community. I also take the opportunity to pay tribute to the work done by my hon. Friend during his time in office.

May I make it clear that Labour welcomes technology foresight in principle and the reports so far? We would urge the Government to enhance and carry the process forward. I ask the Minister, when can we welcome a full debate on science in the Chamber in Government time to discuss the reports? When will the Government publish practical action plans to implement the proposals of the report? When will other Ministers in other Departments welcome the reports and their recommendations, so that they are not left on the shelf in the Office of Science and Technology and ignored by Ministers in other Departments, as has happened in the past?

I start by welcoming the hon. Gentleman's acceptance of the technology foresight exercise. I pay tribute to the many people who have played a part in bringing about what I believe to be one of the most innovative programmes ever to have taken place in this country. Of course, he will know what my right hon. and hon. Friends and I have already said about carrying forward the technology foresight message. The Government recognise the importance of science, engineering and technology. That is reflected in our response to the whole technology foresight exercise.

To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what further plans he has to make the citizens charter justiciable. [26056]

The citizens charter is continuing to raise the standard of public service. Although the charter as a whole is not legally enforceable, certain provisions in specific charters are backed by legislation.

Does my hon. Friend accept that to widen the areas where the charter would be legally enforceable need not be unduly onerous in public spending terms?

Yes, that is certainly true. It need not involve any further public expenditure. What I would be concerned about is losing flexibility. We have increased credibility for the particular charters and some legislative backing in, for example, the parents charter, of which my hon. Friend will be aware. We shall continue to evolve in that direction. He will notice that more and more adjudicators have been appointed—for example, for the Inland Revenue and Customs and Excise. They are bridging the gap between legal enforcement and strong voluntary enforcement.

Is the Minister aware that he can shout and bawl as much as he likes about the values and virtues of the Government's citizens charter because in the background there is another citizen, the ex-Prime Minister Lady Thatcher, who has marked the Government's record and their own charter and does not think that it adds up to a row of beans?

I do not think that the House would readily agree that I was a shouter and a bawler.

To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what changes of service have been monitored in the public services since the introduction of the charter mark. [26058]

There have been a large number of measurable improvements since the introduction of the charter mark. One charter mark winner that I visited recently, a housing benefits department, has increased customer satisfaction to 97 per cent., improved its productivity level and saved more than £2 million through improved fraud detection.

That is an encouraging answer. Is my hon. Friend aware that my constituents welcome the fact that when they telephone Government Departments, telephones are answered more quickly, they can find out the names of the people to whom they speak, and pamphlets are issued in English that they can understand? Does my hon. Friend agree that the constant carping and criticism from Labour Members implies that they have no desire to improve the standard of public services?

My hon. Friend is right. There has been a revolution in public services in terms of waiting times, politeness, openness and all those aspects, although I confess that we still have a little further to go in terms of plain English.

Has the Minister given any consideration to having a negative charter mark for organisations which do not give any satisfaction? If so, what sort of negative charter mark should be given to the most discredited and unpopular Government since records began? Does the hon. Gentleman now regret joining the Tory party after so many years in the Labour party when his current party is going to lose the next election and he will certainly he out of a job?

I am delighted to be a member of an Administration who have the best economic performance that I can remember and who have improved public services beyond the imagination of the Opposition, rather than an Administration who let inflation rip and came to an end in the tragic farce of the winter of discontent.

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the growing popularity of the charter mark is shown by the fact that, last year, there were some 20,000 inquiries about it and some 500 firm applications? Is there scope for extending the charter mark system to organisations such as one in my constituency called the Blacon project, which is an outstanding community partnership between the local authority, the local community and the voluntary sector?

That is an interesting suggestion, which I shall consider.

To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what steps he is taking to implement the Nolan recommendations. [26059]

The Government welcome the broad thrust of the Nolan recommendations in so far as they affect the Government and we are now considering a detailed response.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the public concern that just four of the Conservative Members of Parliament chosen to serve on the proposed House of Commons Committee hold 23 paid directorships or consultancies between them? Is not that concern reflected in the Gallup opinion poll reported in The Daily Telegraph today, showing that nine out of 10 members of the public do not want Members of Parliament to take any outside payment of any sort?

The Nolan report concluded that there was no substance to many of the allegations that have been thrown around. The hon. Gentleman should reflect on that. I hope that this House can now get on with setting up the relevant Committee to look into the way in which this House should respond to the Nolan recommendations.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is unsatisfactory for single organisations to write cheques for £4,000 apiece—cash for votes—for the election expenses of many of our political opponents? Does he further agree that it would make sense for Members of Parliament to judge their own conduct by what I call the local newspaper test—if they are doing something that they would not want reported in the local newspaper, either they should not do it or they should tell the local newspaper?

My hon. Friend raises some important points, which I hope Labour Members will consider carefully. I read some speculation somewhere that at a recent Labour party conference—which seemed to be an awful lot of something about nothing—Labour said that it was looking into its links with the trade unions. I hope that it does so and comes forward quickly with recommendations.

Given the huge public support for the Nolan recommendations—all the answers to all the questions showing eight or nine people out of 10 supporting them—does the right hon. Gentleman think that for the Government to propose for the implementing Committee a group of people who are not only not all senior Conservative Members of the House, but clearly have a vested interest in a result that will allow hon. Members to continue being sponsored from outside the House, exactly confirms the public prejudice that we are always trying to look after ourselves first and the public second?

The hon. Gentleman should read and reflect on the report in full. He would then realise that it states that many of the allegations that have been thrown around have been found to have no substance. It is a fundamental recommendation of the Nolan committee that Members of Parliament should be free to continue with outside interests. That was a specific recommendation. Of course the House must carefully consider the Nolan recommendations, but that is a matter for the House and not for me.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it would he sensible to ask the Nolan committee to look into the corruption and malpractice in so many Labour-run local authorities—in particular, the incompetence in the social services department in Islington when it was run by a lady who has now escaped to the Labour Benches, the employment of illegal immigrants in Hackney, and the employment of a teacher in Lambeth even though he is a trade union leader?

My hon. Friend has issued an important challenge to Labour Members. I know that there is increasing concern about the way local government is being administered in certain parts of the country. My hon. Friend's voice will have been heard and the supportive reaction that he received noted. Indeed, the Nolan committee has already said that local government will be an area for further inquiry; no doubt my hon. Friend's remarks will be taken into account when it meets to consider taking further steps.

In view of the comments made by the Chancellor's hon. Friends this afternoon, will he reconsider the Government's opposition to the proposal that the Nolan committee should look into party political funding? Would it not be helpful to everyone to have that inquiry brought forward and held as quickly as possible?

I wish that the hon. Lady would read the Nolan report, as it clearly labels as untrue each and every one of the allegations that she has just made. The report says that there is no evidence of such packing. There is no evidence that people are appointed on anything other than merit. It is about time she reflected on the recommendations and words of the Nolan report, rather than trying to invent allegations which cannot be proved. We have put forward our policies very clearly. We have already laid out our response to the recommendations in the debate in this House. We are now preparing our detailed response, which will be published as soon as possible.

To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what progress the Government are making with their market-testing programme. [26060]

As our announcement in January on the "Competing for Quality" programme showed, progress has been very good. By September 1994, £2 billion of activities had been looked at and annual savings of more than £400 million identified. New figures will be available shortly.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that answer. Does it not contrast starkly with Labour party policy, which seems to be against such efficiency savings? Indeed, as a result, the Labour party seems to be in favour of inefficiency and therefore higher taxation. What savings does my hon. Friend estimate we are likely to make in the forthcoming year?

Until September, we are tackling a programme worth about £860 million. At the current rate of saving of about 20 per cent., that should yield—if my arithmetic is right—savings of about £170 million for the taxpayer.

Will the Minister look at the way in which the issue is being raised in the health service? Will he look closely at the decision of an industrial tribunal in Birmingham today? The transfer of a particular contract from one part of the health service to another has been found to be unlawful in the European Court because of the rules on the transfer of undertakings. When will the Government recognise that the exercise does not take into account the long term but looks only at certain so-called efficiency savings without considering the total cost and the dismantling of organisations such as the national health service.

The programme does take account of the long term. Clearly, it is beginning to be a long-term factor. It started in the late 1980s and has carried on successfully over the years. If the hon. Lady would care to give me details of the specific example that she mentioned, I will certainly look into it.

Is there any reason why in-house bids should not be acceptable, particularly, for example, in the running of pension funds?

It is normal practice to accept in-house bids. Only in very rare circumstances, where expertise is not available in-house, are in-house bids not accepted. I assure my hon. Friend of that.

To ask the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster to what extent his Government responsibilities include overseeing and co-ordinating the presentation of Government policy. [26061]

I chair the relevant Cabinet Committee.

Is it true that the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has sent minutes to the Prime Minister and sought to counsel him about the political and electoral consequences of the enormous rate of negative equity, especially in the south-east of England? In making those representations, has the Chancellor also drawn to the Prime Minister's attention the human cost of the anxiety suffered by millions of people enduring negative equity and the consequences for enterprise because people cannot borrow to start new businesses? What do the Government intend to do about the problems of negative equity to lift the burden from the people who suffer it?

As my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary said earlier, the Government are responsible for a sustained period of non-inflationary growth and a background in economic statistics that we have not seen for many generations. Of course, we are aware of the difficulties faced by some individuals. My right hon.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that, in presenting Government policies, the Government seek to promote Britain in the best light and to promote pride in being British, rather than to sell Britain down the river as that lot over there on the Opposition Benches would, with minimum wages and the social chapter, which would destroy jobs?

In the words of the deputy leader of the Labour party, any silly fool should know that that would be the consequence of the Labour party's policies, which my hon. Friend has just set out. Apparently, the Labour party last weekend decided to say anything about nothing and nothing about anything. The party without a leader is becoming the leader without a party.

On a point of order, Madam Speaker. In his reply to the hon. Member for Lancaster (Dame E. Kellett-Bowman), the Parliamentary Secretary may have inadvertently misled the House when he said that in-house applications for tenders for services that were about to be privatised would normally be accepted. In fact, in many cases they are not even allowed to tender. In the case of the civil service pension scheme, which is of major importance, it appears that the President of the Board of Trade is not allowing any in-house tenders.