If he will make a statement on future trends in the number of police officers. [121530]

I announced on 17 May that the additional funding in the Budget provided by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will allow us to provide for the recruitment of the 5,000 officers allocated under the crimefighting fund by March 2002, a year ahead of my original plans, which were announced on 9 February. Police forces will be able to recruit 3,000 extra officers this year and 2,000 next year.

The Home Secretary did not tell us that the previous Government increased police numbers in West Mercia by 405. In only three years, his policies have reduced West Mercia's numbers by 101. The much trumpeted crimefighting fund will still leave West Mercia 12 officers behind in two years' time. When will he wake up to the needs of police in a rural area, get numbers up to those left by the Conservative Government and increase them?

As the hon. Gentleman says, police numbers have fallen in West Mercia. They are due to rise by 89 under the crimefighting fund. I congratulate the West Mercia police force: in the year up to September 1999, there was a reduction in recorded crime throughout West Mercia of 2.4 per cent.

I welcome my right hon. Friend's announcement last week of 41 extra police officers for Lincolnshire, whom we will see in two years, not three. What further Government initiatives to support improved policing can we look forward to in Lincolnshire?

In addition to the extra investment in policing in Lincolnshire, which has enjoyed a 4 per cent. increase in support from Government this year, which is above the national average, and the additional investment under the crimefighting fund, there has been investment under the crime reduction programme, which has led to the introduction of closed circuit television and a range of other measures, all of which are designed to assist Lincolnshire police and their excellent record in reducing crime.

Is the Home Secretary aware that nothing better illustrates the need for more policemen than the nonsense that is going on in Whitehall? Is he aware that the whole of central London was paralysed on Friday for five hours? It has been paralysed again this morning. Right hon. and hon. Members have found it impossible to get to the House because of a whole load of foreigners who are demonstrating and blocking Whitehall. When I spoke to the inspector, he said that the police were still waiting for enough reinforcements to come to deal with those people. None of us has been able to work because of the noise from the helicopter. If the Home Secretary cannot find us a policeman, perhaps he could introduce some water cannon to deal with the problem, failing which, we still have a few paras left in Aldershot.

As you are aware, Madam Speaker, I am fully seized of the problems that have arisen in Parliament street and in Whitehall. I raised them with the Deputy Commissioner of the police in the absence of the Commissioner at 9 o'clock this morning as soon as I saw what the problem was. I understand that the northbound carriageway of Whitehall has been cleared to vehicular traffic and that the southbound carriageway has either been cleared or is about to be.

Has my right hon. Friend considered the policing requirements in relation to the Mike Tyson fight? Is he aware that one of the promoters of the fight has a violent criminal past and has connections with Glasgow's criminal underworld?

As far as that is relevant to this question—it is hard to see how it is; it is about policing in England and Wales—may I say that I took advice about the possible public order and policing consequences of the latest application in respect of Mr. Tyson, as I did in respect of the one earlier this year.

Does the Home Secretary agree that recruitment and retention of officers are vital to reversing the trend of declining police numbers? At a time when the police are saying that support and respect for the police are a key factor in recruitment, how can he justify the early release so far of 100 criminals jailed for assault on police under his early release scheme? Is that not a kick in the teeth for hard-pressed police? Does he not remember the era when even the Kray twins would think twice about assaulting a police officer? Is it not time that respect for the police was restored?

I fully support the need for respect to be shown for police in dealing with difficult operational matters. The home detention curfew scheme is a success, and it was backed fully by the unanimous report of the Home Affairs Select Committee, including the hon. Member for Surrey Heath (Mr. Hawkins).

No; not in serious cases.

Yes, it was backed in respect of summary offences, of which assault on police is one. I also do not think that we want to hear from Conservative Members about early releases from prison, given the fact that, in one short week, more than 500 prisoners were inadvertently and mistakenly released by the right hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Miss Widdecombe) when she was a Minister of State at the Home Office.

Does my right hon. Friend recall that we were short of police in 1984, but that the Tory Government decided to concentrate use of police in the coalfields during the miners' strike? Does he remember that the result was that burglary and various other offences were committed elsewhere after those police officers had been herded into Yorkshire, Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Scotland and Wales?

My hon. Friend is entirely correct on his first point. All I can say on the baby is that I am sure that all of us wish the Prime Minister and his wife every congratulation. [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] Those of us who are of a certain age might also wish to add that we are glad that it is him and not us. However, I am sure that we all wish to send the Blair family every congratulation on their fourth addition.

What proportion of ballot papers have been spoilt (a) under systems of proportional representation and (b) in elections to the House in the last five years; and if he will make a statement. [121531]

Approximately 0.3 per cent. of the ballot papers that were issued at the 1997 general election were spoiled. Slightly fewer were spoiled in the European parliamentary elections, but marginally more were spoiled in last year's Scottish parliamentary elections. The figure for the elections to the Greater London Authority were higher—largely because a significant number of ballot papers were left blank, but with some people deciding to vote only for the Assembly, and others to vote only for the mayorship.

Does the Minister accept that there is some disappointment because, despite all the ballyhoo over the London elections, turnout was only 33 per cent, compared with a national average of about 30 per cent? To what does he ascribe that turnout—to people's confusion about the Government's ill-judged attempts to tinker with the British voting system, or to a lack of public interest in the new Labour concept of directly elected mayors?

There is no evidence in the actual statistics suggesting that voters are turned off by the electoral system. In relation to proportional representation, the only thing that is certain about the statistics is that there is uncertainty about how to read them. Our view is that a significant number of people decided that they wanted to vote only for the mayorship. They took the view that they would do it in that way and that they would not vote for the GLA, and that, of course, is their democratic right.

If he will make a statement on progress made in dealing with the numbers of asylum seekers. [121533]

We are committing substantial new resources to speed up all stages of the asylum system. Over 11,000 initial asylum decisions were taken in March—an all-time record—and the backlog of applications has begun to fall. We are determined to create a system that is genuinely fairer, faster and firmer.

Is the Minister aware that her recent visit to Southend-on-Sea, when she saw for herself the special problems of seaside towns, was greatly appreciated by officials and, unusually, by councillors of all parties? On the wider front, is she aware of the growing evidence from asylum seekers in Southend and elsewhere that there appears to be a highly organised international criminal group that is offering highly priced places in lorries to potential asylum seekers? Will she consult with the Governments of France and Belgium to see how that appalling activity can best be publicised and tackled?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his kind remarks and for his original invitation to Southend. I was very impressed by the excellent work that has been done by a number of people in Southend, particularly by social services and housing officials. I agree with his point about organised crime. The smuggling of vulnerable human beings is a worldwide trade. Unfortunately, sometimes those involved are in cahoots with some of the unscrupulous immigration advisers whom we are determined to tackle. It is sad that the Conservative Government did not deal with that problem, but we intend to do so.

Will the Minister comment on the cost of holding a large number of asylum seekers in prison, the poverty of asylum-seeking families who are denied access to income support and forced to live on less than 70 per cent. of it and the violent language that is being used by many commentators and others towards asylum seekers, which permeates down and ends up in violent racist attacks on asylum seekers on the streets of this country? Will she call for calm, tolerance and understanding of the reasons why people seek asylum when they are often fleeing from oppression and injustice in their own country?

I share my hon. Friend's view and that of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, who has spoken recently on the issue, that across the decades this country has a proud record of welcoming people. I am pleased that we have had that policy, which this Government will continue. It would be nice to see more press attention given to policies such as those that we have promoted on refugee integration. However, we have to keep a balance. It is also right that we seek to deter those who make unfounded applications. While people are here having their claims processed, we must offer them sanctuary and safety, and maintain and accommodate them. It is in everybody's interests that we speed up the system. We are doing that.

Some weeks ago we were entertained by the spectacle of the Home Secretary greeting nine clandestine entrants off the back of a lorry. In a parliamentary answer, he subsequently told me that six of them had claimed asylum, but he was not sure where the other three were. Is the Minister able to tell us how many of those six are in the country and where the other three are?

As far as greeting is concerned, my right hon. Friend was visiting Dover to see the excellent work done by our immigration service in implementing the new civil penalty, which has been a tremendous success in the few weeks that it has been up and running. That throws the opposition of the right hon. Lady and her colleagues into sharp relief. The asylum seekers mentioned are going through the process in the normal way. The difference is that we are speeding up the system so that everybody's claim can be treated fairly. We will give refugee status—quite rightly—to those who have made a genuine claim for asylum. However, we will swiftly return those who have made unfounded claims.

So the conclusion is that six are still here and the whereabouts of three are not yet known. How many of the 37 who applied for asylum after the Afghan plane hijacking are still here?

The right hon. Lady knows that those people are still here because they are going through the appeals process. Is it a new Conservative policy to remove the right to appeal? If so, the House and the British public have a right to know.

So they are still here as well. How many applications for asylum have been refused, including on appeal, since the Government came to power? How many of those who have been refused have been removed? How many are still here?

In the last period for which figures are available, about 7,600 were removed. That is the highest number of people ever removed. To continue that, we will need more detention capacity at the end of this period. It is no good the right hon. Lady chuntering on if she wishes to deny the implementation of the civil penalty.

How many?

I have given the right hon. Lady the figure. The right hon. Lady denies that her Government's record was much worse than ours and left us with a system that needed extra staff and resources. We are delivering; the Conservatives continue to oppose.

They may not be genuine asylum seekers, but the Minister knows of my concern over the jailing in Greenock prison—a decision made by immigration officials—of two young Algerian brothers, Hisham and Mohammed Shetto, aged 15 and 17 respectively. They may be young scallywags, but they surely do not deserve such treatment. When will they be transferred to suitable accommodation? It has been put to me that they ought to receive a smidgen of the sympathetic consideration given to Mr. Mike Tyson.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who gave me notice that he hoped to catch your eye, Madam Speaker, to raise this matter. It is certainly not normal practice to detain young people under the age of 18. However, detention may be appropriate under exceptional circumstances. I will be delighted to go into more detail with my hon. Friend. However, I can say that the ages of the boys are unclear. The brothers were given temporary admission into the care of the local authority, but their extreme behaviour meant that the arrangement could not continue. The Immigration Service is making strenuous efforts to find appropriate care arrangements.

If he will make a statement on the capability of the Security Service to monitor subversive groups. [121534]

The functions of the Security Service are set out in section 1 of the Security Service Act 1989 as amended by the 1996 Act. The Security Service cannot, on its own account, investigate activities, or planned activities, unless they are threats to national security.

All I can say in response is that they are two people with a minority opinion. Did not the Security Service used to have as its F branch a highly effective organisation for monitoring subversion on the extreme left and the extreme right? Is not it a fact that, both last year and this year, the Home Secretary came to the House bemoaning the fact that demonstrations in the City and Whitehall were impossible properly to take precautions against because of a lack of advance knowledge of what the demonstrators were going to do? Will the Home Secretary now confirm that it was a mistake for his Government to close down F branch of the Security Service as they did, thus enfeebling the ability of the Security Service to take preventive measures, notwithstanding the grudges that he and many of his right hon. and hon. Friends have against F section for its successful monitoring of their activities in the past?

I have to explain to the hon. Gentleman that I bear few grudges and I bear no grudge against whoever it was who thought that their days could best be spent on deciding whether I was subversive. Events showed at the time, as they have since, that that was—generally speaking—a waste of public money. The hon. Gentleman's definition of subversion stretches more widely than that of the director general of the Security Service and that in the Security Service Act 1989. The Act's definition is particular and, as the then Home Secretary—now Lord Hurd—said at the time of its passage,

There is no power in the Bill to enable the Security Service to take any interest in any person or organisation or any activity or enterprise which presents no threat to the security of the nation as a whole.—[Official Report, 17 January 1989; Vol. 145, c. 218.]

Unlike the Home Secretary, I do bear a grudge, and it is against Mrs. Stella Rimington for what she did to the miners in 1984 by abusing the security services. Will the Home Secretary carefully consider the serious allegations contained in this weekend's The Sunday Times in relation to Mrs. Rimington and Mr. Michael Bettaney and, in particular, whether Mr. Bettaney was an alcoholic who had no business operating in the most sensitive areas of the security services? I do not ask for a reply off the top of my right hon. Friend's head, but I would like a considered reply from the Home Office.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the saving clause added to his question, because I cannot give a reply off the top of my head. I will look into the matter. I would also point out that if there is a responsibility for the fact that in any period in our history the activities of the Security Service have ranged more widely than they would do today, that responsibility ultimately lies with those Ministers directly involved—the Home Secretary and Prime Minister of the day—not with those who were public servants.

Does the Home Secretary agree that the capability of the Security Service to monitor subversive groups, or perform any other activity successfully, is wholly undermined by the example being set by Dame Stella Rimington in seeking to publish her memoirs? Does he further agree that members of the Security Service should be under a lifetime duty of confidentiality and that Dame Stella's actions set a wholly unwelcome precedent?

I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman makes. Members of the Security Service and other similar agencies are under lifetime obligations that they entered into voluntarily upon their employment. I understand that Dame Stella Rimington's manuscript was submitted by her in draft to the Cabinet Secretary in accordance with the normal procedures and will be dealt with according to those same procedures.

When he expects to receive the report of the Burns Inquiry; and if he will make a statement. [121535]

We have always indicated that Lord Burns hopes to submit his report to my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary by late spring. My right hon. Friend hopes to publish it shortly thereafter.

That is splendid news, but what is the Government's general position? Do they still want a ban on hunting with dogs to be piloted through the Commons by means of the private Member's Bill mechanism? If so, would not that risk the measure being torpedoed in the House of Lords? Would not it make sense for the Government to bring forward a multi-option Bill, along the lines of the one that became the Sunday Trading Act 1994? That would allow hon. Members of all parties to express a definitive and conclusive opinion on an issue that at present is merely festering?

I understand the point that my hon. Friend makes. The Government are, of course, neutral on the issue, which is a matter for a free vote in the House of Commons. The Government took the view that the best way forward was by way of a private Member's Bill, after the Burns inquiry has reported. We have said that we will offer reasonable Government time, if necessary, and drafting assistance for a private Member's Bill, which would be considered by the House on a free vote. I understand that all parties are likely to allow a free vote.

Has the Burns inquiry assessed the likelihood of Britons hunting abroad in the event that hunting is banned in this country?

What the Burns inquiry assesses must be included in the terms of reference that we have set for it. It is for the inquiry to determine how to interpret the terms of reference.

What progress he has made with preparations for collating statistics about crime, police numbers and achievements in preventing and tackling crime by basic command units. [121536]

We are committed to publishing information that allows local people to judge and compare performance. Recorded crime statistics were published at basic command unit level for the first time in January this year. The next publication will be in July. We are currently preparing an analysis of statistical families of basic command units, which would allow more effective comparison between different parts of the country.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. However, is he aware that the figures that have been published so far seem to demonstrate that police in the town of Slough work much harder than do police in the rest of the Thames valley? Will he consider making that information more widely available by publishing how many constables are attached to each basic command unit, as well as the number of crimes that have been committed? That would show where the police have to work hardest, and it might persuade our chief constable that he should allocate more constables to Slough.

The question of the work rates of officers in different parts of the Thames Valley police force is a matter not for me but for the chief constable. We are prepared to consider publishing more data about what is happening at basic command unit level. That data would include the number of officers allocated to each unit. The inspectorate of constabulary intends to carry out a rolling range of inspections at basic command unit level from April 2001, which will allow a detailed analysis of the sort of matter that my hon. Friend has raised.

Figures from the Home Office research department and the British crime survey show that, out of every 100 crimes committed, 47 are reported and 27 are recorded. However, only five crimes are cleared up, and only three result in a caution or conviction.

The hon. Gentleman asks a compendium question. I certainly agree that we are focusing on reducing and detecting crime by all means possible. The whole thrust of our policy is, as the hon. Gentleman says, on what works, identifying the best technique and driving it forward. That is why we established the best value regime for the police earlier this year. I wish that politicians of all parties would share that aspiration and stop trying to undermine confidence in the police, as some of our opponents frequently do in what they say. I confirm that our approach is to see what works and to drive crime down.

There is a wide welcome in my constituency for the provision of such information at basic or operational command unit level. Does the Minister agree that it makes it far easier for members of the public to understand what the police are doing—their success and the challenges that they face—if these partnerships are built from the bottom up rather than from headquarters down?

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. The purpose of what we intend to do is to raise public debate and have much more positive discussion about strategies and ways in which people can work together. An important part of publishing the data at BCU level is also to align the boundaries of basic command units and local authorities and therefore crime reduction partnerships. That allows us to establish the best ways of reducing crime in different parts of the country.

But surely the Government's statistics demonstrate that after five years in which recorded crime consistently fell, we are now seeing a disturbing upward trend in recorded crime in England and Wales. What is the Minister's explanation for this renewed surge in crime?

The statistics actually demonstrate strikingly different levels of crime reduction performance in various basic command units. That is the single most striking factor. It is true for police authorities generally but, more important, it is true at basic command unit level. Basic command units which might be thought to be broadly similar in character are in fact demonstrating dramatically different levels of performance in bringing crime down. That is why we introduced the best value regime and why we are publishing the data—to get a much more effective and accurate fix on what really will bring crime down, which is the whole focus of what we are trying to do.

If he will make a statement on the role of community police officers. [121537]

The community beat officer is a vital link between the police service as a whole and the community policed by that particular officer. A dedicated, proactive community beat officer plays an important role in fighting crime, whether by identifying and tackling local crime problems, providing intelligence, or combating fear of crime. An inspection currently being carried out by Her Majesty's inspectorate of constabulary, entitled "Winning the Race 3", pays special attention to individual forces' use of community beat officers as a key factor in service delivery.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his reply, and in particular his comments about the valuable contribution made by community beat officers to visible local policing. When does he expect all police forces to have in place a policy covering the limited circumstances in which such officers can be taken off their beat duties, so that they can spend as much time as possible doing the job which they are employed to do?

One of the aspirations of the inspectorate of constabulary's report, "Winning the Race 3", is to increase the number of forces that have policies of the kind referred to by my hon. Friend. Over the past 10 months or so, the number of forces that have policies in place has nearly doubled, and they continue to proceed. We do not have a specific timetable for all forces, but we have the aspiration of ensuring that that happens as quickly as possible.

Is the Minister aware that, notwithstanding the very welcome visit of the noble Lord Bassam of Brighton to the Hillingdon borough, hosted by my hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Randall) and the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (Mr. McDonnell), and our joint visit, as a threesome, to see the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis about policing matters, especially community policing, I have been informed that our borough is to have not a single extra uniformed policeman to put on the beat or anywhere else? Is it not the case that Her Majesty's Government are seriously misleading the public, certainly as far as outer London is concerned, with their bland assertions that more manpower will be available, when clearly it will not?

I remind the hon. Gentleman that under his Government, the number of Metropolitan police officers fell by 2,000. The subject of policing in outer London has been widely debated, not only by the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends but by others. It is an operational matter for the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis to decide what the allocation of his resources is. I know that he is committed to very effective policing in outer London, including the area that the hon. Gentleman represents, and I am sure that he said that to the hon. Gentleman when he met him.

The invaluable contribution that has been made to my constituency by community police officers is immensely valued by my constituents, not least in reducing the incidence of drug abuse, racial harassment and, more particularly, domestic violence. Therefore, my hon. Friend will be aware, as I am sure are all hon. Members, of the stupefaction felt by many of my constituents at the decision of my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary to allow into the country for the second time a proven abuser of women. Can my hon. Friend be sure that he will issue direct and reinforcing guidance to all community police officers that, despite my right hon. Friend's decision, violence against women is not endorsed by the Government?

I can confirm that domestic violence, and particularly violence against women, is a significant target of the Government's policy. We have established many support programmes, which have been focused on reducing domestic violence, securing a better level of reporting of it and getting a much better level of co-operation between the police and social workers, for example, to fight domestic violence.

I welcome what the Minister said about community policing, but does he agree that for many chief constables community policing and, indeed, the entire patrol function is a marginal activity when resources are scarce, and tends to be lost? If he is to produce figures relating to basic command units, as described in response to the previous question, would it not be important to ensure that resources follow need in basic command units, particularly in rural areas, and especially those rural areas that come under a force that covers urban areas as well? Will they get the additional support that they need for rural policing?

I do not think that any chief constable thinks that community policing is a marginal activity, to use the hon. Gentleman's term. I have visited many forces and I have discussed this very matter with the senior police officers responsible. They are committed to establishing regimes of community policing that really will make a difference. As the hon. Gentleman says, publishing data at BCU level will enable us to have a much more informed debate about these matters in future, which will be in the interests of all concerned.

What targets for burglary reduction he has set for Greater Manchester police. [121538]

Local crime reduction targets for police forces are set by local police authorities. Greater Manchester police authority has set a target of achieving a 25 per cent. reduction in domestic burglary by April 2005.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer. I am delighted that Salford has recently received nearly £1 million to tackle burglary in the city and to help meet the 25 per cent. reduction target. However, we have serious criminals who launder money. I am particularly pleased by the announcement of plans to seize the assets of criminals.

I am not so sure that Eliot Ness and the Untouchables are the immediate analogies that spring to mind, but the answer is yes.

What measures he plans to encourage recruitment of additional special constables. [121539]

The Government continue to support the efforts of the police to recruit more special constables. The Home Office has produced a recruitment video, a series of posters, and a recruitment brochure, and funded a two-week national radio and press campaign in March 2000, at a cost of £700,000. Research into why people join the special constabulary has been commissioned. The results of the research and the March campaign will be available shortly, will be made known to the House and will help focus plans for the next recruitment campaign.

I was pleased to hear the Home Secretary refer to a radio recruitment programme. Is he aware that in Stockport, which is part of Greater Manchester, special constables had to have their radios provided by funds from the local council because the Greater Manchester police force was not able to fund them? Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that there is a lack of status and a lack of funding, which make the job somewhat unattractive for those who really could play a constructive part in policing our community?

The way in which specials are used varies considerably from one force area to another. Some forces, and their regular officers, embrace the specials and use them effectively. In other forces, there remains an implication that they are unpaid labour, and the regular officers are slightly stand-offish. In truth, these members of the community give of their time freely and voluntarily to supplement the work of regular officers, which they do extremely well. We have sought to raise recruitment and training standards for those officers so that they can be relied on more readily than may sometimes have been the case in the past. We have taken steps to improve their expenses and sick pay, and—which is important—to provide them with insurance in case of legal action against them.

As the role of special constables is obviously to fight criminality, what message do they receive if a convicted rapist such as Tyson is allowed into the United Kingdom? Is my right hon. Friend aware that men, as well as women, are deeply opposed to letting him in? I hope that my right hon. Friend will understand the feelings on his Back Benches and reconsider his decision.

It is hard to see quite how that question arises on this matter, but it is my responsibility to take such decisions on the basis of the rules and the law as they exist. The simple fact is that that particular immigration rule had been observed more in the breach than in the observance. No proper arrangements had been made for requiring such information from those who were not visa nationals and who were arriving in this country. As it turned out, other people with more serious convictions had come and gone without notice. Above all, I had to take account of whether Mr. Tyson's entry would pose a risk to the safety of the public. On the basis of the history of his application—

That is not the issue.

With great respect to my hon. Friend, on the basis of the history of the application and the need for fairness and consistency, I took the decision that I took. I also laid before the House a consultative document, on which my hon. Friend may wish to comment, proposing changes in the rules and their more consistent application in future.

The Home Secretary will recognise that special constables are prime examples of the citizen in uniform. They perform many of the community policing roles that we would wish regular officers to play. What has the Home Secretary to say to the police about housing costs, which are one of the reasons why it is so difficult to encourage police officers to live in the more expensive parts of the country?

I have two things to say about housing costs. First, as the hon. and learned Gentleman will recognise, following the abolition of the housing allowance in 1994, under the Sheehy changes, some forces, particularly the Metropolitan police, have, because of rising prices, found it increasingly difficult to recruit and retain officers. Secondly, in recognition of the particular problems faced in the Metropolitan police service, I have authorised the offer of a substantial increase in the London allowance for post-1994 Metropolitan police officers. The offer is currently in arbitration, but I hope that there will be a satisfactory outcome as soon as possible.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the pay increase in the Metropolitan police to which he has just referred is causing severe problems for Hertfordshire police and other constabularies around London? It is making it more difficult for other forces to recruit and retain officers, not only as special constables but as regulars. What plans has he to assist those constabularies to retain officers as well as recruiting them?

A working group in the Police Negotiating Board is considering the matter. I am aware of representations made to me personally by the chief constable of Hertfordshire and two other chief constables in the home counties. I have to say that the quicker they produce firm evidence about their recruiting problems, the quicker and better able we shall be to respond.

How many child curfew orders have been (a) applied for and (b) granted. [121540]

No applications have been received from local authorities to establish child curfew schemes. The failure of some local authorities to recognise the importance of ensuring that they use the full range of powers that are now available to them to counter anti-social behaviour is a matter of continuing concern.

What is a matter of concern is that the arrangements are entirely unworkable. What is the Minister going to do to make them operable?

The hon. Gentleman is misguided. If he consults his own crime and disorder partnership, he will find that it makes good use of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. Indeed, I have a copy of the partnership document; it indicates that a group has been established, led by the chief officer of police and the chief executive of the district council, to look at anti-social behaviour orders—which must be seen alongside the child curfew orders. That group is making considerable progress. The hon. Gentleman should be supporting his local partnerships, rather than knocking the Act that set them up.

My right hon. Friend will be aware that child curfew orders have been used, as a last resort, on housing schemes in the west of Scotland. Does he agree that the use of role models is also important for children? If so, what would he tell children on the west of Scotland housing schemes whom I represent about looking to a rapist and a person who bites off someone else's ear during a boxing match as a role model. What would he tell children who think of Mike Tyson as a role model?

I should tell them that a large range of role models is available and that they do not have to turn to Mike Tyson or anyone like him in order to find one.

The Minister referred to anti-social behaviour orders. Will he tell the House how many have been issued? Why does he think that the partnerships to which he referred actually work—rather than responsibility being taken by the police?

Forty—and half of them were issued specifically in relation to juveniles. If the hon. Lady talks to her own local partnership, she will find that as valuable as the order itself is the fact that the Crime and Disorder Act has enabled local agencies—education, social services, health, probation and the police—to work together to tackle those problems, thus making it unnecessary in many cases to apply for an order. The important point is that the power exists; it is being used, and it is working.

What plans he has to visit the Netherlands to investigate anti-drugs policies. [121541]

None—although, recently, I was there for three days on holiday.

How does the Minister respond to the conclusions of the Police Foundation that, after 20 years of decriminalisation in the Netherlands, cannabis use is far less than it is in Britain, and that that country has the lowest ratio of drug deaths in Europe? After 30 years of prohibition in this country, heroin use has increased by 2,000 per cent., and cannabis use is the highest in Europe. Has not the Police Foundation demolished the main plank of the Government's policy by also concluding that young people in Holland are far less likely to experiment with heroin than those elsewhere in Europe?

I do not make jokes about the subject. Drug taking among young people is one of the most serious and tragic matters with which we have to deal. It is incumbent on Governments to try by all means possible to drive down drug taking by young people. For that reason, I did not accept the conclusions of the Police Foundation report.

If he will make a statement on the dispersal programme for asylum seekers. [121542]

We began to phase in the new support arrangements for destitute asylum seekers on 3 April 2000 for those who applied for asylum at port, and in-country in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

I am grateful for that reply, and my hon. Friend will know that I was one of the hon. Members who supported the idea of a dispersal policy because it would take pressure off the London boroughs. However, will she assure me that the policy will be properly funded, that the centres will be properly established and that problems will not lead to people leaving those areas, returning to London and becoming destitute because there are inadequate support mechanisms in those localities? Will she also assure me that the Government will not adopt the policy of the Conservative party of locking up all asylum seekers and stopping people living with their relatives in this country if they have them?

I understand my hon. Friend's concerns. As another London Member, I know very well the situation in London. That is why we made the arrangements for dispersal, and I reassure my hon. Friend that we are making arrangements outside London. As he will know, we are grant-funding some refugee organisations to provide support services, to assist with a variety of matters and to help local authorities and other service providers. So far, the arrangements have gone very well and I am grateful to all the people who have supported them.

The Minister will know that we have corresponded over the possible use of a former old people's home in my constituency to house asylum seekers on a temporary basis until the site is sold for redevelopment. Its use is being considered because of the extremely high cost of bed-and-breakfast accommodation at a time when the accommodation situation is tight. Will the hon. Lady join me in condemning the activities of Conservatives locally, who have claimed that the proposal is to build a detention centre at Oseney Court on the Botley road, and will she also condemn the conduct of a local councillor who talks of strangers kicking elderly people out of their accommodation?

I understand completely the points that the hon. Gentleman makes. They illustrate again the complete nonsense of the Conservatives' policy. I was very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the contact that we have had on this issue and it is apparent that Members of Parliament on both sides of the House take such cases very seriously, particularly as they affect their constituencies. I am willing to discuss cases on an individual basis with hon. Members and I hope that the attitudes that they have taken will continue to prevail.

What reports he has received about the response of the electorate to the experimental voting arrangements tried out in the May local elections. [121543]

Under the terms of the Representation of the People Act 2000, local authorities have three months in which to carry out a formal evaluation of their recent electoral pilot schemes. The evaluation reports are likely to include an assessment of the electorate's attitude towards the schemes.

Given that only the postal balloting experiment appears to have led to an appreciable increase in turnout, and that turnout at the recent local elections fell generally, will my hon. Friend consider extending the provisions of full postal balloting to all local council elections?

There is certainly a strong case, on its merits, for all-postal ballots in council elections. However, the way in which the evaluation reports will have to be examined and the consideration that we shall have to give to the administration of the pilot schemes means that we are not able, as yet, to make a decision about such ballots. We hope that many local authorities will apply to run pilot schemes in future elections.

The Minister will know that an unusually high number of ballot papers were spoilt in the recent elections for the mayor and assembly of London. Earlier, the Minister seemed to imply that ballot papers were spoilt because many electors voted only for the mayor, not the assembly. As those ballots were completely separate, is the Minister prepared to publish a paper saying how the ballot papers were spoilt so that Londoners may be better informed on this important and worrying issue?

In the mayoral election, 38,141 ballot papers were spoilt, equivalent to 2.18 per cent. of those issued. In the Greater London Authority constituency elections, 88,142 ballots were spoilt, or 5.04 per cent. In the GLA top-up, 161,972 ballots were spoilt, equivalent to 9.27 per cent. I trust that that deals with the hon. Gentleman's question.