What steps the Government have taken to consult young people about the policies of her Department. [31400]

We are building on existing good practice to integrate young people's involvement in all our activities and, by doing so, implementing the Government's core principles on participation published last November in "Learning to Listen". The development of the Connexions service is an excellent example of how a new service can engage with young people.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Last week I visited Madeley Court school in my constituency which has a school council and two student representatives on the governing body. Does he agree that that is a good mechanism for consultation on education policy nationally and on the policies of the governing body of that school?

I agree with my hon. Friend. That is an innovative approach to the involvement of young people and I congratulate the head teachers and governors on involving young people in that way. We are becoming increasingly conscious—certainly I am as the first Minister for Young People and Learning—of the importance of listening to young people and talking to them about policies that have an impact on their everyday lives. It is important that they are involved in the design, development and evaluation of services.

What discussions has the Minister had with members of the Youth Parliament about his Department's policies? Will he confirm that all members of the Youth Parliament have been invited to the Department to meet Ministers and officials? What are his plans to ensure continuing dialogue with members of the Youth Parliament and how will he keep in touch with them to give them feedback on the discussions?

We have a high regard for the contribution that the UK Youth Parliament makes in linking politics, Government and young people together. The hon. Gentleman might be aware that the children and young people's unit has been in dialogue with representatives of the UK Youth Parliament. Deliberations are under way on the level of future Government support for the activities of the Youth Parliament.

It is right to engage young people in consultation because it is mutually beneficial for the school and the young people, and helps the school to run smoothly. However, does my hon. Friend agree that practice varies enormously? Although some young people enjoy that benefit and like being at school, some schools are not so committed to the practice. Will he comment on strengthening guidelines to encourage schools to engage young people so that they can benefit in the way that he described?

I agree that practice is patchy. Some schools are good at involving young people and are committed to the concept, but others are not. We do not think it appropriate to introduce statute on that policy at the moment, but we should spread good practice guidance and make it clear that in principle the Government support the idea of school councils and other ways to engage young people at school level. We have a long way to go, and we need to build on existing good practice and commitment.

I agree with a lot of what the Minister said: consultation with young people is important. He will know from consulting school councils and others that their greatest current concern is the disastrous failure of the exam system in the Edexcel fiasco. The Secretary of State has given Edexcel one month to prove that this summer's exams will not fall into chaos. Do the Government have a contingency plan if Edexcel does not satisfy the Department, and if so, what is it?

The Government's reaction to the difficulties at Edexcel was immediate, rapid and decisive. We insisted that the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority carry out an audit of the difficulties that emerged at the examinations board last summer—that report has recently been published—and the quality assurance person at the QCA has been put into Edexcel to improve practice. We believe that lessons have been learned from the difficulties of recent months, which undoubtedly affected too many young people, and that systems are now in place to ensure that the improvements that we expect at Edexcel are delivered in time for the summer exams.

That is an extraordinary reply. We are in the middle of the one-month period of investigation, but the Minister is apparently entirely confident. Either the one-month exercise is a sham, or the Government have no plan B and the exams will go ahead under Edexcel even if Edexcel fails the one-month test. Which is it?

It is irresponsible of the hon. Gentleman to undermine confidence in this country's examinations system. Although the situation at Edexcel is serious in terms of the small number of young people affected by it, the vast majority of young people have every reason to have confidence in the examinations system because they have not been affected by the problems at Edexcel in the past. We have every confidence that the robust quality assurance systems that we have put in place and the interventions of the QCA and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will ensure that this summer the examinations system will run as we expect it to.

If she will make a statement on the PFI in schools. [31401]

There are 38 signed PFI projects involving almost 500 schools with a value of more than £1 billion. A further £1 billion has been allocated to projects in various stages of development. The Government have increased the amount of PFI credits for schools from £35 million in 1997–98 to a planned £850 million in 2003–04.

Does my hon. Friend agree that in public services, it is critical that the quality of service that people need is put in place, rather than the means of its financing or provision? In three schools in my constituency, PFI work is about to commence that will provide them with new classrooms—in one case to replace 14 mobile classrooms—and new facilities that would otherwise not have been provided, or not have been provided on the same scale or in the same time frame.

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I am glad to hear about the three schools in his constituency, which are among nine in the authority area that are to benefit from the scheme. The programme has already started and is running on time for completion in December this year. He is right that teachers and pupils will have good-quality buildings maintained to good-quality standards. He mentioned the added value that that can bring. Wirral local education authority officials told my officials that even at the current high levels of Government capital investment through public routes, it would have taken 15 years to reach by conventional means the same state that the PFI contract will deliver for the nine schools in the area.

I welcome the fact that after many years of frozen capital spending, my local authority, which is Liberal-Democrat controlled, is working with the Department to build new primary schools in my constituency. However, does the Minister acknowledge that PFI funding is more expensive than conventional public borrowing? Will he explain whether the extra cost will be borne by the improved and expanded schools, or will it be spread across the whole LEA and so be borne by other schools as well?

If the hon. Gentleman's authority has put in a bid for a PH project, it is one of the more than 100 out of 150 LEAs to have done so. That demonstrates the interest in that form of additional financing of capital investment. As for cost, he will know that PFI projects can proceed only if they can demonstrate value for money over conventional means of funding. My hon. Friend the Member for Wirral, South (Mr. Chapman) spoke of a project in his LEA area that will deliver a 9 per cent. lower cost for the programme. Furthermore, payments begin only when services start. Teachers, pupils and schools get new buildings with guaranteed higher maintenance standards.

Many of our constituents deserve new-build in the education system, some of which is 20 years overdue in my constituency. I welcome the PFI work and seek an assurance from my hon. Friend that despite carping from certain quarters, he will not back off from the programme, which provides a sensible way of putting capital into schools in our most deprived communities.

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. PFI is a means to raise additional resources to improve school buildings and to deliver better and more cost-effective public services. Of course, it can also free head teachers and teachers from the business of maintaining and managing buildings, allowing them to concentrate more on standards, education and their students. Despite the carping that my hon. Friend mentioned, it is increasingly popular with schools and local education authorities. Last year's bidding round was oversubscribed by 3:1, the current one by 4:1.

The Minister will know that I strongly support the genuine transfer of risk to private bodies, but can he tell us the difference between shifting the Government's debt into public-private partnerships and Enron's accounting methods to shift its debt and hide it in offshore partnerships?

The right hon. Gentleman does the PFI programme in schools a serious disservice in trying to make such links. There is no connection or comparison whatever with the methods that that company employed. He is right about shifting the balance of risk, which is key to PFI contracts and the ability to deliver value for money and cost reductions. Shifted risks include risks that the private sector bears in upfront costs until buildings are completed, and risks associated with serious systems and buildings failure during the contract, which is why many local authorities and schools regard the arrangement as a valuable way of bringing new capital finance into the school system.

What plans she has to encourage further links between schools and further education colleges. [31402]

The Learning and Skills Council is working closely with local education authorities, schools and colleges to secure effective links. Area-based inspections promote collaboration to support a wide range of local provision. We are providing £38 million to promote increased flexibility in the curriculum for 14 to 16-year-olds.

I thank my hon. Friend for his answer. Both further education colleges in my constituency, Capel Manor college and Enfield college, are conscious of the importance of such links. As he mentioned, funding will be a key issue. The ability to deliver pre-vocational and vocational education is connected to the need to harmonise funding between the FE sector and sixth-form colleges. The FE sector has welcomed the Government's commitment to pursue such harmonisation. Can my hon. Friend say more about the time scale?

My hon. Friend can inform the two colleges in her constituency that they will find out on 15 February whether their bids have been successful. I confirm that the Government are committed to the principle of convergence and believe that it has to happen. I give her a cast-iron guarantee that the issue of convergence will be considered in the spending review.

Does the Minister agree that transport is a key issue in getting good contact between FE and schools, especially in rural areas? Does he agree that the Education Act 1996, which allows local authorities to opt out of providing free transport for over-16s, either to schools or FE colleges, must be changed? Does he condemn Labour-controlled Northumberland LEA, which has just introduced a charging policy for all students going to schools or colleges after the age of 16? Does that not fly in the face of his comments about better co-operation between schools and colleges?

I agree that transport is important, particularly in rural areas, as I have discovered from visiting some of those communities. That is the No. 1 issue, especially for young people, in terms of potential isolation and continuing study. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government have introduced education maintenance allowances, which at present are available in only 30 per cent. of the country. Early evidence on EMAs is that participation brings significant benefits. Many young people are using that additional money to pay for transport costs. The Connexions card that we are introducing in September will provide reductions for young people in the cost of transport.

After my hon. Friend has visited my constituency tomorrow, he may be so impressed that he will want to return to see the excellent collaboration between Halton college of further education and Widnes and Runcorn sixth form college, which has resulted in a new shared Runcorn campus being built. Although collaboration between schools is important, does he agree that to provide the best possible service to people in post-16 education, collaboration between sixth form colleges and further education colleges is just as essential?

I agree, and I look forward to meeting my hon. Friend in his constituency tomorrow. Co-operation is particularly important in the context of a new 14 to 19 phase of education. The challenge is to achieve seamless collaboration between schools, sixth form colleges, FE colleges, training providers and employers. We need an approach that integrates the various institutions that impact on young people's lives, so that we provide them with the best opportunities and incentives to stay in learning and training.

What measures she will take to ensure that the lack of quality assurance that led to fraudulent use of ILAs is not reproduced in successor schemes. [31403]

Quality assurance methods will be built into the successor scheme to individual learning accounts. A range of options will be explored as we develop the new programme.

Does the Minister agree that the lack of quality assurance and monitoring structures in the ILA scheme led directly to a scandalous and probably fraudulent abuse of taxpayers' money? There has also been a shocking and detrimental impact on service providers and recipients, and a terrible impact on people who benefited from ILAs.

The hon. Gentleman is right to the extent that the picture is complex. It is increasingly clear that the lack of quality control measures contributed to the problems experienced by the ILA scheme. There is widespread agreement that pre-registration checks of learning providers need to be strengthened. We will draw the lessons of the ILA scheme. That will help us to set appropriate quality control measures for a future programme. However, I caution him about the need to balance greater protection for the public purse with simplicity for the learner and limited bureaucracy for the provider.

When does my hon. Friend anticipate announcing the successor to ILAs, and what role does he envisage for local learning and skills councils in the successor scheme?

My hon. Friend, who serves on the Select Committee on Education and Skills, will acknowledge that the ILA scheme was innovative and important in many respects, but there are important lessons for us to learn. We are undertaking a consultation with all learning providers under the scheme, with partners who have an interest in the future of the programme, and with learners who opened ILA accounts. I know that he will find this frustrating, but it is too soon to say with certainty when we will be able to relaunch the scheme. Above all, there is a need to get to the bottom of what went wrong before we can make sensible decisions about the shape of the programme for the future.

Is it not clear that the Government were warned about the likelihood of fraud in the system as early as summer 2000? What does the Minister have to say to my constituent Stephen Good, a legitimate ILA provider who has had to place his property on the market because of the Government's incompetence and complacency? When will he be told when his situation will be rectified?

In the preparation of the ILA scheme and its introduction in autumn 2000, we had discussions with a wide range of partners. We had to strike a balance in the design between control and quality assurance methods and a non-bureaucratic system that was easy for the learner and the provider. With hindsight, as I acknowledged in response to the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Mr. Simmonds), it is clear that the quality assurance arrangements were simply not good enough. That part of the system will be stronger for the future scheme. A small number of unscrupulous learning providers undermined and abused the scheme. I take the constituent of the hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr. Goodman) to be a legitimate provider who, like many others, made much of the scheme to benefit a range of learners across the board.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the glee shown by Opposition Members—[Interruption.] There is perhaps synthetic anger too, but is not their attitude symptomatic of the reasons why the public service cannot be innovative? We did the same when we were in opposition, so I am not making a cheap party political point. The individual learning account was a superb and innovative scheme that put purchasing power—Opposition Members should be pleased about this—in the hands of the individual learner, thereby giving them the power to shape the content of their learning. I share my hon. Friend's dismay about the administrative problems and urge him—

Order. The right hon. Gentleman's question is far too long.

I do not want to underestimate the scale or nature of the problems, including those that we are unearthing in our investigations. My right hon. Friend is right that the scheme was important and innovative and put power in the hands of learners for the first time. That is part of the reason why the scheme in its short life encouraged new learners and people who were returning to learning for the first time. It is also part of the reason why one in six of those who used ILAs had no previous qualifications and why one in four had not done any learning in the previous year. He may not be aware that the Learning and Skills Council agrees with his analysis and in yesterday's Select Committee hearing described the ILA as the single most successful attempt to attract new learners.

Is it not the case that the simplicity and innovation of the scheme went so far as to ensure that the only criteria that the learning provider had to offer the contractor to gain access to Government money were a name, address and telephone number, and details of the bank account where the cash was to be sent? No other validation whatever was required. Is not the story very simple? The Government set up the ILA scheme and were warned about possible abuses, but ignored those warnings. They encouraged new providers into the market, but when the abuses became so obvious that they could not be ignored, they announced a date for the closure of the scheme. Then they brought forward even that date, prematurely ending the scheme and closing it overnight, leaving millions of pounds owed to providers and breaking faith with thousands of students who expected to go on courses. They also caused job losses, company failures and a disastrous loss of confidence in decent adult education initiatives. Can he hazard a guess as to whom the public hold responsible for this scandal, and will he meet some of the learning providers face to face, so that he can explain to them precisely what he intends to do about it?

I have met learning providers face to face. Officials in the Department are in constant contact with them and, as I explained to the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness, we are undertaking extensive consultation to draw on their experience to help us to design the future scheme. The hon. Gentleman is right about the registration of learning providers: it was registration, and it was clear from the outset that it was not a quality assurance stamp of approval from the Government on either the provision or the provider. As I have explained, that is something that we will have to change in a successor scheme.

What recent assessment she has made of the performance at GCSE of (a) pupils at grammar schools and (b) their equivalent intellectual cohort in comprehensive schools. [31404]

The Department has not made a recent assessment. An assessment carried out two years ago showed a modest advantage to comprehensive schools.

I have to confess that I am baffled. As my hon. Friend said, the assessment done by the Department a couple of years ago showed an advantage to comprehensive schools. A wide range of academic research now shows a consistent pattern of comprehensive education out-performing selective education. When a clear, consistent pattern illustrates that selective education is failing our children, why will the Government not face up to their responsibility to deal with those local education authorities that are entirely selective? Will the Minister again consider my suggestion, which is now supported by people campaigning for as well as against grammar schools, that an independent inquiry be held into the corrosive effects of selective education?

The academic debate on this subject still rages. The Government's position is that we do not favour selection by ability at the age of 11; there will be no new grammar schools under this Government. I understand my hon. Friend's concern about these arrangements, particularly in Kent. In the White Paper, we set the target that by 2004 at least 20 per cent. of pupils in every school should achieve five good GCSEs, rising to 25 per cent. by 2006. A total of 372 schools did not achieve the 25 per cent. target last summer; 28 of those were in Kent. Clearly, extensive work will need to be done with those schools in Kent to achieve the targets, with support from my Department. That is where I urge my hon. Friend and the many others who are concerned about these issues to focus their attention.

Are five good GCSE grades today the equivalent to five GCE O-levels of grade C and above in the past? To what extent has improvement in overall examination results been assessed as due to grade inflation over the years?

That is certainly not the explanation. We have careful, thorough quality control procedures in place to ensure that standards are maintained. There is indeed broad comparability between the levels to which the hon. Gentleman referred. Teachers, schools and pupils have worked very hard, and that is the reason that we have hit the target of at least 50 per cent. of our young people getting five good GCSEs a year ahead of our deadline. That is down to the hard work and success of schools.

I welcome my hon. Friend the Minister's reaffirmation of the Government's opposition to selection by ability at the age of 11. But, in view of the endemic divisiveness, administrative chaos and waste of potential that are inherent in all the selective systems—let us remember that they exist in almost a quarter of our local authorities—is there not now an overwhelming argument for a national inquiry into the impact of selection on those children who are not selected?

Our priorities should be clearly focused on raising standards across the entire secondary system. It is clear from the exchange that we have just had that we are succeeding in that. In the case of existing grammar schools, we believe that parents should be able to determine locally whether the arrangements should continue.

The Minister seems somewhat confused. On one side, he says that he wants standards raised, whereas, on the other, he ignores the way in which standards can be raised. It was a pleasure to see the Secretary of State, Ministers and most Labour Members, including the hon. Member for South Thanet (Dr. Ladyman), joining us in the Lobby last night and voting to defend grammar schools. Perhaps I can help the Minister with his research. Has he not seen the National Foundation for Educational Research survey on the impact of selection on pupil performance? It says that

"within the middle ability range, young people in grammar schools perform significantly better than those in comprehensives".

The hon. Lady is a little confused. The votes last night were about faith schools, not grammar schools. The assessment made a couple of years ago indicated an advantage to comprehensive schools, but I am aware that the debate rages. She should support comprehensive schools and encourage rising standards across the entire secondary system, as we are doing. The evidence is clear that we are succeeding.

Is it not the case that numerous surveys have proved that children do not perform better in grammar schools? Is that not the fundamental question that we must face? Does not the Conservative party's obsessive interest in pursuing selective education fail to take account of the number of children who would lose out through a selective system because they would go to second-class and lower-quality schools?

Let me draw my hon. Friend's attention to the assessment made a couple of years ago. Research on all 15-year-olds in grammar schools in a particular area found that 96.4 per cent. of those youngsters achieved five good GCSEs. A second group included the top 25 per cent. of 15-year-olds in comprehensives, and 100 per cent. achieved five good GCSE grades.

If her Department will consult on regulations to give successful schools greater autonomy. [31405]

Yes, we shall. I anticipate that the consultation will take place later this year. We set out our thinking in a policy statement that was provided to members of the Education Bill Standing Committee and placed in the Library of the House.

I thank the Minister for his response. If greater autonomy is seen to be good, will it not benefit all schools? Are not struggling schools often those that require greater flexibility? Will he assure the House that there will be greater flexibility and less Government interference?

There certainly will be greater autonomy as a result of the measures agreed by the House when the Education Bill was considered on Report yesterday. We are developing our policy of intervening in inverse proportion to success. When a school is successful in terms of its achievement at assessment and in its leadership, we want to increase the autonomy available to it, because we can be confident that it will use that extra freedom to raise standards.

I served in Committee on the Education Bill and was pleased to support it. As my hon. Friend knows, specialist schools are also part of innovation in our children's education. Will he consider the regulations on funding, because unfortunately Rossington high school, which is seeking specialist school status, has been turned down, not because of its bid but because, in a coal-mining area, we do not have the companies on our doorstep to fund it? The parish council has agreed to put some money in, but the regulations prevent it. Will he look into that?

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the valuable contribution of specialist schools in raising standards. I understand the concerns about sponsorship. That is why we support the Technology Colleges Trust in working with schools to help them raise the sponsorship that they need.

Is the Minister aware that there is great rejoicing in King's Lynn over news that Park high school is to receive specialist technology status? If he comes to that school, he will be very welcome indeed, and they may even unveil a picture of him in the assembly hall. However, is he aware that St. Clement's high school has had its bid turned down for the third time, even though in 2000 people from the school were invited to No. 10 because it was one of the most improving schools in the country? If he goes to that school, they will probably burn an effigy of him. Will he come up to west Norfolk and visit the two schools in the near future?

I was aware of the rejoicing in King's Lynn, because the hon. Gentleman told me about it. There will be rejoicing in all the nearly 150 schools that gained specialist status in this round. Schools have to go through a very rigorous process to attain specialist status, and many have to apply two, three or more times before succeeding, but the process is a very valuable one in helping them to raise their standards and develop strong plans for future improvement. I think that, on reflection, the hon Gentleman would support that.

If she will make a statement on schemes to improve access to professional qualifications in (a) health and (b) education for people working in low-paid jobs in those fields. [31406]

Good progress is being made in both health and education to extend access and opportunity to individuals to gain professional qualifications. We have several initiatives in place and we are developing more. For instance, in the national health service, low-paid staff can receive £150 towards work-related training. In education, we are developing a new qualifications framework; we have foundation degrees in place; and we are funding a range of pilot projects to discover better work-based routes for gaining professional qualifications.

A few days ago, I gave 117 teaching assistants in the Slough education action zone certificates for training courses that they had been on. Many of them would be capable of gaining professional qualifications, including qualified teacher status. What action will my hon. Friend's Department take to help areas such as mine that have a teacher shortage and have some very talented people who lack education qualifications to work in their schools? We need to provide a ladder of qualifications to give us in the end the teachers we so seriously need.

First, I congratulate those people to whom my hon. Friend gave those certificates. That is the important first step in the progression, perhaps finally towards a career as a teacher. We have a whole range of ladders—I call them climbing frames, because people can go across as well as up—to develop and progress within one's career. The fact that we now have nearly 100,000 teaching assistants working through local education authorities gives those people the opportunity to progress.

Does the Minister accept that many low-paid workers can supplement their incomes by learning, for example, aromatherapy, which is taught in my constituency, or perhaps herbal medicine, or reiki—channelled energy—which is becoming increasingly popular? Will she ensure that there are joined-up discussions with the Department of Health to ensure that some of those courses get help? Will she remind the Secretary of State that there are 50,000 complementary practitioners in Britain wanting to work in the health service?

We have frequent discussions with the Department of Health about training opportunities, and we are working closely with that Department to create opportunities through the NHS university, which will develop over time. I share the hon. Gentleman's view that, also over time, we should bring complementary medicines into the health service.

What recent discussions she has had with the university sector about standards in the awarding of degrees by UK universities to students studying overseas; and if she will make a statement. [31407]

My Department has regular discussions with the sector about the standard of UK degrees. For courses delivered overseas, universities should abide by the Quality Assurance Agency's code of practice on the academic management of collaborative programmes.

Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that there may be a temptation for some universities, in an understandable desire to improve their financial position, to skimp a little on standards for overseas degrees? Does she share my particular concern that the monitoring of standards may not be good enough for some degrees being taught in foreign languages overseas? Will she agree to keep a close eye on the situation and ensure that degrees from British universities are of as high a standard when they are awarded to students overseas as they are in the UK?

I would share my hon. Friend's concern if we did not have the Quality Assurance Agency, which is responsible for monitoring standards. I agree with him that it is essential that standards are monitored, and where there is a franchise arrangement, and the place of learning is some distance from the parent organisation, we will always ensure that standards are maintained. I must say to my hon. Friend that it is right for universities in the UK to offer their courses abroad—that is the nature of the world in which we live—and I am immensely proud of how popular many UK university courses are abroad. I do take my hon. Friend's point, and the work of the QAA is vital for standards.

What plans she has to implement the National Assembly for Wales's proposals for the restructuring of higher education in Wales. [31408]

Policy on higher education in Wales is a matter for the National Assembly for Wales. I understand that the Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning in the Assembly will shortly make a response to the recent policy review of higher education, in the form of a 10-year strategy for higher education in Wales.

I thank the Minister for her reply, but I am puzzled by it—and also by the quotation in The Western Mail from the departmental spokesman, who said:

"There is no possibility at all of any legislation"

The Minister for Education and Lifelong Learning in Wales has not asked us to extend any powers, because she has not yet responded to the consultation paper that has been under consideration in Wales. If and when she does, and if and when she asks us for additional powers, we will consider the request. I must also point out that almost half of Welsh undergraduates study in English higher education institutions.

What steps she is taking to improve the co-ordination of her Department with the performance and innovation unit. [31409]

Officials and Ministers in our Department are in regular contact with the performance and innovation unit about its current and future work programme. When specific PIU projects relate to departmental policy, both Ministers and officials have close working relationships with the PIU. For example, the Under-Secretary of State for Education and Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth (John Healey), who has responsibility for adult skills, was sponsor Minister for the recently published PIU report on adult skills.

My right hon. Friend will know that the Select Committee's job is to track the Executive and hold them to account. Can she help us to gain access to more information about what is happening in the PIU and in No. 10 generally, because increasingly we see decisions being made, influence being exercised and policy being formed in places that we have not been able to reach through the traditional Select Committee methods? Can my right hon. Friend help us, even by telling us in detail what education policy groups are meeting and working on those subjects in the PIU and through other avenues in No. 10?

With the greatest respect, if my hon. Friend is having difficulty securing information in his capacity as Chairman of the Education and Skills Committee, that is a matter for him, not for me. My Department has close working relationships with units, organisations and other Departments throughout Whitehall. At the end of the day, we are in the same Government and we follow the same policies, but I should make it absolutely clear that my Ministers and I take decisions on education and skills. Responsibility and accountability rest with us.

How many successful Crown prosecutions there were in North Yorkshire between (a) 1 January and 31 December 2000 and (b) 1 January and 31 December 2001. [31435]

In 2000, there were 12,000 cases in North Yorkshire, of which 98 per cent. resulted in convictions, and in 2001 there were 11,000 cases, of which 99 per cent. resulted in convictions. As the hon. Lady knows, some cases do not make it to trial, but North Yorkshire's discontinuance rate is lower than the national average.

I thank the Solicitor-General for her reply. Will she take this opportunity to join me in congratulating the North Yorkshire Crown Prosecution Service on its excellent recent report? Does she share my concern that the figures that she quoted do not reflect the fact that reported crimes in the year ending March 2001 totalled more than 51,000? There is a large discrepancy between reported crimes and successful prosecutions.

I am sure that the hon. Lady's congratulations to North Yorkshire's chief crown prosecutor, Rob Turnbull, and his team will be warmly received. They have done a good job, received a good inspectorate report and their figures are good. In particular, they have reduced to 51 the number of days that it takes to bring a young offender to justice.

Can the Solicitor-General say approximately how frequently such prosecutions were contracted out to solicitors and barristers in private practice in North Yorkshire during that period? Will she tell us—not just in respect of North Yorkshire but, more importantly, generally—how her Department ensures that costs charged to it by solicitors and barristers in private practice are competitive, reasonable and provide good value for public money?

I do not have the exact figures, either for North Yorkshire or nationally, but I will provide the hon. Gentleman with them. He makes a very important point, but there are certain principles that we want to adhere to. In instructing agents, outside solicitors or barristers, the CPS must be fair to the public purse, but the relationship between the defence and the prosecution must also be fair. We do not want a well resourced prosecution facing down an under-resourced defence, or vice versa.

If she will give guidance to the Crown Prosecution Service on charging manslaughter where people have killed partners who have inflicted grave domestic violence on them. [31436]

I am not planning to give guidance to the CPS on charging manslaughter where people have killed partners who have inflicted grave domestic violence on them. The CPS will always consider the full background circumstances of a case when deciding whether the charge should be murder or manslaughter, including whether the defendant has acted under provocation or with diminished responsibility. I am working closely with the CPS to ensure the vigorous prosecution of domestic violence.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend accept that a practical problem follows on from the failure to give that advice to prosecutors as yet? I am obliged for her answer, which reveals that things may change. The problem is that women who kill as a consequence of domestic violence are often acting in self-defence. Although they may appear to use excessive force, it is because the ferocity of an earlier attack has put them in great fear. Of course, that issue must be tried by a jury. Does my right hon. and learned Friend accept that jurors rarely try domestic violence cases in which the charge is murder because judges permit a woman who has killed in the heat of the moment under pressure to plead guilty to provocation manslaughter—a plea that she must take or run the risk of the life sentence that follows murder—

Order. The question is far too long and, when I stand, the hon. Lady should be seated.

My hon. Friend raises some important and difficult issues. It is true to say that there is continuous consideration of those issues. We want to get it right and there are no easy answers. As she knows, each case has to be judged on the basis of the individual circumstances. Of course, we want to be sure that prosecutors study all the background to the case and have all the information. In the case that she raises, prevention is better than cure and we do not want domestically violent husbands to be murdered by their wives; we want them to be prosecuted, or we want the violence to be prevented in the first place.

If she has made an assessment of the risk of the Government facing legal action under the Human Rights Act 1998 over the civil service pension scheme. [31437]

I am afraid that I cannot answer my hon. Friend's question without breaching the long-established Attorney-General's convention that neither whether the law officers have advised, nor if they have what the advice was, is revealed outside Government.

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for that answer. I live in hope, which will probably not be realised, that in the answer to my supplementary question she may shed more light on Government thinking. She will be aware that the majority of private pension schemes extend benefits to unmarried partners, that Members of Parliament have voted to extend benefits to their partners and that, later this year, the civil service pension scheme will change to recognise unmarried partners. In view of those developments, does she agree that the Government are vulnerable to challenge from teachers, doctors, nurses, police officers and members of the armed forces in long-term unmarried partnerships who are denied benefits for their partners?

My hon. Friend has raised some important matters, but they are policy issues for the Cabinet Office. She then worked her way back to asking me the original question about legal advice, which I cannot answer except to say that, as regards the Human Rights Act, all Departments and Ministers are very concerned that all their actions should comply with the European convention. To the extent that we can, we assist them in doing that. It is not only secrecy that prevents me answering that question; there is a line of accountability which ends with the deciding Ministers and not the advising Ministers. In this respect, the Law Officers are advising Ministers, not decision makers. We are the deciding Ministers on the other issues about which I have been asked and we are fully accountable to the House.

Is the Solicitor-General prepared to accept some advice from a Conservative Front Bencher on the question of the Human Rights Act, bearing it in mind that I want to be helpful? If there is a problem with the civil service scheme, is she aware that in the recent case of R v. the Secretary of State for the Home Department, ex parte Simms, Lord Hoffmann made it crystal clear that if Parliament chose to do so, it could legislate contrary to the fundamental principles in the European convention on human rights, providing the actions taken by Parliament were clear and unambiguous? The option is there. Will she pass that advice on to Ministers?

I will draw Ministers' attention to the Hansard containing the hon. Gentleman's comments, but in an ingenious and, as we would expect, complicated way he has asked the same question as was asked earlier on what our legal advice is. He has given me his advice, for which I thank him, and hon. Members and Ministers will read it.[Interruption.] As the Under—Secretary of State for the Home Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey (Angela Eagle), points out, he has given it for free, which is welcome, but I cannot answer that point. I cannot engage in a discussion about the Human Rights Act's application to this particular point of policy. He will have to get one of his colleagues to ask the Minister with policy responsibility at the Cabinet Office.

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

With this it will be convenient to consider the following: New clause 4—Effect of working tax credit on housing or council tax benefits—

'No award of working tax credit under this Act shall be taken into account in the determination of any housing or council tax benefit to which a person may be entitled under any other enactment.'.

?Before the coming into effect of this Act, the Secretary of State shall lay before Parliament regulations providing for the conditions and qualifications for access to the social fund of persons ceasing to qualify for income support or income based job seekers allowance upon the coming into effect of this Act.'.

?Before the coming into effect of this Act, the Secretary of State shall lay before Parliament regulations providing for the conditions and qualifications for access to passported benefits provided by the Secretary of State, devolved administrations and local authorities which prior to the coming into effect of this Act had been afforded by qualifying for working families tax credit, income support or income-based jobseeker's allowance.'.

?(subject to the exception provided in section (Recipients of children's tax credit prior to April 2003))'.

?(except for regulations made under section (Access to social fund) or section (Access to passported benefits).'.