How many community support officers there are. [171319]

How many community support officers are operating.

At the end of April this year, we had more than 3,500 community support officers in 38 police force areas. They provide complementary support with the uniformed police. whose number has risen by 6,000 in the past year alone. They concentrate on the low-level violence, antisocial behaviour and nuisance behaviour that blight the lives of so many of our constituents. They make a vital contribution to the provision of high-visibility and high-accessibility patrols, free police officers for other duties and give reassurance to communities.

I thank my right hon. Friend for his answer. I concur with him on the benefits provided by police community support officers in my constituency and. I am sure, in every constituency that is lucky enough to have them. Lucy Heddon, chair of Glebe Court tenant management organisation, said today that, in the short time that they have been in post, her local PCSOs, Mick and Terry, have transformed her life and that of other people on her estate because they are available at night, they are a high-visibility presence, and they are there to tackle the small misdemeanours that were ignored in the past.

I concur strongly with my hon. Friend's example. There must be a boundary in terms of outer and inner zones and payments, and although an additional £1,350 is paid to officers in Merton, that does not compare with what is paid in the inner boroughs. I appreciate that that is a real challenge. The good news for my hon. Friend and her constituents is that another 10 community support officers are coming out of training at Hendon and will be employed in Merton in two weeks' time. That will be a considerable improvement and a great tribute to my hon. Friend, who has campaigned vigorously on this matter and against antisocial behaviour in Mitcham and Morden.

Does my right hon. Friend accept that in Broxtowe we are extremely enthusiastic about our CSOs and we hope that the application for further CSOs made by Nottinghamshire police will be successful? Does he share my concern that other parties might seek to abolish this post? Will he consider creating a good long-term career structure for police community support officers, because those to whom I talk hope in the long term to work in the police force? I am a little concerned that the best people in the CSO force will be promoted to the point at which they are no longer working on the beat. Will he try to ensure that we provide a good career structure so that that does not happen?

I, too, hope that we can add to the 62 CSOs currently employed in the Nottinghamshire force, and the third round is being evaluated at this moment. I share the challenge to ensure that people who are recruited can have a long-term career path. Many choose to become uniformed officers, which is good in terms of diversity because the number of people of ethnic minority origin and women coming through from the CSOs is much greater than in recruitment to the police service as a whole. I agree entirely with my hon. Friend that it would be a terrible tragedy if, for instance, a party cut more than £660 million out of the Home Office budget, and if community support officers were done away with as a result.

The Home Secretary, of course, repeats an oft-quoted error by suggesting that any such cuts will be made by the Conservative party when it comes into government in about a year from now. Will he comment on the funding of community support officers? I am the first to support the community support officer who is doing good work in Chippenham, and I hope that the chief constable will recruit the second one for whom she is currently advertising. However, is not the difficulty that the funding from the Home Office lasts for a total of only four years, and after that contributions from town councils and parish councils across the patch will be required? The cost of community support officers will be transferred from the Home Office to the unfortunate council tax payer, who is already screaming.

Let us be absolutely clear: a whole range of individuals and organisations have joined together to supplement the amount that has been provided, both through direct funding for CSOs and through the general police grant. We cannot have two different versions of the same budget from the Opposition. Either the Treasury spokespeople for the Conservative party are right or they are wrong when they say that there will be necessary pain in reducing budgets. When that budget is applied across the board, other than to schools and the NHS, it is inevitable that there will be cuts. Under our proposals, however, and under the forthcoming spending review, there will be additional resources to pay both for additional CSOs and for the continuing rise in the police service, which has shown an increase of 6,000 in the past year alone. With a Conservative budget, cuts would be bound to occur in every part of our service and every part of our country.

The Home Secretary knows full well that a Conservative Government will add 40,000 police officers. What is more, we will tell police authorities that they can choose whether to spend the money on CSOs or on real police officers. That is real local accountability.

I am very happy to let the hon. Gentleman into a secret: we do have a hidden agenda. It involves providing thousands more CSOs and thousands more police officers at the same time, and decentralising training from the current residential arrangements so that people can be nearer to home and get more into the three months' training for uniformed officers. That is being welcomed by the Police Federation and the Association of Chief Police Officers.

The Home Secretary will know that the Police Federation objected vehemently to the introduction of community support officers. Wherever I go, I hear police officers saying what a valuable task CSOs perform on the streets of their areas. Has the federation formally withdrawn its objection, or has it eaten a little bit of humble pie recently?

My hon. Friend will forgive me: as I am to visit the federation in two weeks, I shall not ask it to eat anything. I shall, however, ask its members to join us in welcoming the extra police officers, the extra CSOs, the extra powers against antisocial behaviour, the introduction of the Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000—all the elements that we are putting into a jigsaw to provide the powers, legislative backing, resources, and manpower and womanpower to make it possible to clean up our streets and give people safety in their homes.

What his plans are to combat the trafficking and sexual exploitation of children within the UK; and if he will make a statement. [171320]

The Sexual Offences Act 2003, which came into force on 1 May, includes offences that criminalise trafficking into, within and out of the country for the purpose of sexual exploitation. The offences carry a maximum penalty of 14 years imprisonment. The Act also introduces comprehensive offences covering the sexual exploitation of children.

The provision of safe accommodation for children who are victims of this appalling trade is essential if we are to break the cycle and protect children more. It is also essential because a trade that is estimated to be worth $7 billion a year requires us to do all that we can. Given the Government's commitment to establishing a safe house, and the establishment of Integrated Care's first safe house for these children, what proposals have the Government to support them further and to expand the safe houses service?

I thank my hon. Friend for his question and for his determined pursuit of this issue. We know of the new safe house established by Integrated Care and believe that it provides an important service to which all local authorities can refer children. It is for local authorities to decide how best to discharge their responsibilities to children in need under the Children Act 1989—some choose services of this kind, while others opt for foster care or other provision—but I am certain that the safe house will be a useful resource for social services departments to consider when dealing with trafficked children. Our new legislation will ensure that children in such circumstances are given better protection.

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is essential for joint working to take place between the immigration service, the police and social services at every port—and I mean every port in the country—to ensure that children who may be being trafficked are identified at that crucial stage, that they are given all possible help, and that all possible work is undertaken to deal with those who are trafficking them into the country? Will she have further discussions with the Minister for Children to ensure that that crucial aspect of joint working goes ahead based on the best practice available?

I thank my hon. Friend, and I note his continued commitment to the issue. I think that, like me, he will welcome the additional work that has come out of the Sexual Offences Act 2003: tough new offences, better collaboration between social services and immigration, action to prevent the problem by working with source and transit countries and, as he pointed out, other appropriate support for victims. We are working across key agencies at principal entry points to identify children at risk. Operation Paladin has just been concluded. It involved a range of different authorities dealing with unaccompanied children, or children accompanied by someone other than their parents, to see what situation they are coming to and what the child protection issues are. We will be learning the lessons from that. Child victims of trafficking are likely to need welfare services and, in many cases, protection under the Children Act 1989. We look forward to working with our colleagues in the Department for Education and Skills to ensure that that happens.

What assessment he has made of the impact of the long-term prison population projections on prison capacity. [171321]

It is estimated that a continuation of recent trends in the use of custody would result in a prison population of 93,000 by the end of the decade. The reforms that we are making should enable us to rebalance the system and achieve a stable and lower population. As a result of the investment that we are making, there will be 79,500 available prison places by 2006.

I know of my hon. Friend's personal commitment to prisoner welfare. The Criminal Justice Act 2003 means that there will be more robust community sentences and a reduction in the number of short sentences, which are ineffective in reducing wrongdoing. but there is concern out there that the increase in the number of prisoners and the small number of new places coming on stream make the situation unsustainable. Can he give an assurance that that pressure will be relieved in the near future?

My hon. and learned Friend is right to point to that pressure. We will continue to expand the capacity of prison places. By next year, we will have 77,600 prison places. By 2006, we will have 79,500 places. He is right to point out that many very short prison sentences are a waste of time. They are long enough for people to lose their homes and jobs but not long enough to do the resettlement and educational work that such prisoners need. It is far better for non-dangerous offenders, particularly first-time offenders, to be dealt with in the community with a robust community sentence.

Given the projected increase in the prison population and the urgent need to cut recidivism, the hon. Gentleman will certainly agree, as he has just indicated, that prison education must be a top priority. In that context, what proportion of people currently leaving prison still can neither read nor write and what is the Government's public service agreement target for improvement in that regard?

What I can say to the hon. Gentleman, and I am sure that he will be pleased to hear this, is that, as this has been an area in which the Government have invested, we have seen a significant increase in the number of people who learn to read and write while in prison. The most salient point is that, last year, 50,000 basic skills qualifications were gained in our prisons. Those prisoners can now read and write, take their place in society and reform their behaviour.

My hon. Friend will know that one of the key objectives of the National Offender Management Service was to reduce the projected figure from 93,000 to 80,000 by the end of the decade. Can he tell us exactly how he expects NOMS to do that, because it is not NOMS that will be in charge of sentencing policy, but the Sentencing Guidelines Council?

My hon. Friend is right. In the end, it is not politicians or legislators who send people to prison, but sentencers. That is why the role of the Sentencing Guidelines Council will be central to our reforms. The chief executive of the National Offender Management Service has a key role to play in informing the council about what is effective in sentencing. The NOMS will provide, for the first time, effective management of offenders through the whole system, joining the bit of the sentence served in prison with the bit served in the community. By doing that, we believe that we will further reduce reoffending rates.

The Minister is responsible for planning for the prison population. So serious is the overcrowding in our prisons that 64 per cent. are over the limit for keeping prisoners in decent conditions and 15 are over the danger line for safety as we speak. There are more suicides and self-harming by prisoners and the justice unions report increases in acts of organised indiscipline, hostage situations and threats. What is the Minister going to do about this shambles of Government policy? Will he speed up the prison building programme, or will he rebalance the programme by letting more and more prisoners out early to join the 1,100 who have committed further crimes while under curfew orders?

Those figures are not correct, but I welcome the hon. Lady's concern for the welfare of the people in our prisons. For example, it is welcome that she is concerned about the number of people who committed suicide in our prisons last year. I hope, therefore, that she will join us in supporting the strategy that I put in place for reducing self-inflicted deaths in custody. But services such as that cost money and given she and her colleagues want to wipe £700 million out of the budget of the Home Office, where would that money come from? I have set out our prison-building programme and the extra places that we intend to provide, but that costs money. We will provide it and she would not.

What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of designated public places orders. [171322]

The effectiveness of DPPOs is being monitored and evaluated in the trailblazer areas that are focusing on tackling the antisocial street scene. Those areas are Camden, Westminster, Brighton and Leeds. As of March, around 100 authorities have been operating the system successfully. This indicates that they have been found useful.

What would my hon. Friend say to the Liberal Democrat leader of Cambridge city council who, despite petitions requesting DPPOs totalling thousands of signatures, has refused to use the legislation on the grounds that it is, he says, impractical and illiberal?

I would say that he was a hypocrite. I have noticed the eagerness with which his Liberal Democrat colleagues in election campaigning have said that they would crack down on the yobs. We know from the British crime survey that 44 per cent. of all victims of violent crime describe their assailant as being under the influence of alcohol at the time. Yet, in practice, when we provide effective tools to deal with exactly that problem, they fail to use them. Typical.

Has not the hon. Member for Cambridge (Mrs. Campbell) provided a first-class example of how the Government's proposals to control violent and drunken youths—while perhaps well meaning—have failed because the cost, red tape and hassle involved in getting antisocial behaviour orders, curfew orders and now designated public places orders mean that, despite the Government's spin, most councils do all they can to avoid using them?

The world that the hon. Gentleman describes is not the one in which I live. I have noticed how our efforts to ensure that we slim down the things that need to be done to obtain an ASBO—as well as our work on the availability of interim orders—have meant that, where there is a dynamic and effective partnership between the local authority and the police, the order is a useful tool for dealing with antisocial behaviour. At last, we have the methods to tackle the problem, but I am not surprised that the hon. Gentleman and other Opposition Members are determined to put it down. They are wrong; they should welcome these powers, like the people of Britain in the communities that are the victims of antisocial behaviour.

Will my hon. Friend join me in congratulating Inspector Frank Firth in my constituency, who has successfully used those orders on several occasions to great effect, which has been welcomed by local residents? Does she agree that the one further development that would be welcome would be the courts underpinning those orders by using custodial sentences to reinforce them when necessary?

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I apologise to the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly), whom I should have welcomed to his new place. I got carried away and I hope that the House will forgive me for my enthusiasm on this occasion.

What measures he proposes to combat antisocial behaviour caused by binge drinking. [171323]

On 15 March, we launched our alcohol harm reduction strategy. Taken together with the new slimmed-down antisocial behaviour orders, the dispersal and curfew powers and the ability to levy fixed penalty notices, we believe that the new clampdown by Paul Evans, the head of the standards unit in our Department, will help to tackle head-on under-age drinking, binge drinking and chronic drinking. He will be able to assist us with all that from his experience as police chief in Boston, where he had tremendous success in turning a city with a major problem of violence and alcohol abuse into a city that is now, as I found when I was there at the beginning of March, easy, fit and clean to walk in.

Notwithstanding all the measures that have been put in place, antisocial behaviour by young people, fuelled by alcohol, remains a major problem in Wirral, South. It causes mayhem, from the knocking off of car badges to the knocking down of gravestones and the wilful destruction of bus shelters and telephone kiosks. That all creates a climate of fear and, in effect, no-go areas at night for some of my constituents. What further measures could be put in place to free my constituents from that scourge?

I do not disagree at all with my hon. Friend: this is a scourge. About one third of those who are arrested in town and city centres have been involved in alcohol abuse and more than two fifths of those involved in violent crime have been indulging in the overuse of alcohol. That is a major scourge. However, it is not only the legislation or enforcement measures that I have already enunciated that are crucial; also crucial are the partnership with the industry that produces and retails alcohol and a change in the education process, along with the sensible use of family pressure. We also need to give a message to those who give planning consent for large volume, or vertical drinking, establishments, to get across that there is a need for social responsibility from the business and commercial community as well as from everyone else—[Interruption.] Yes, vertical drinking often leads to horizontal sleeping and, unfortunately, too many people stagger out on to the street to cause mayhem before they do fall asleep.

In the blizzard of announcements and initiatives in the Home Secretary's answer to the hon. Member for Wirral, South (Mr. Chapman), there was no mention of the Licensing Act 2003. How does the right hon. Gentleman feel that the introduction of 24-hour drinking under that Act will improve the Government's record on binge drinking and antisocial behaviour?

The guidance that we have established between the Home Office and the Department for Culture, Media and Sport makes clear the powers that are available and the restrictions that should be put in place and, under the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003, there is now the ability to close establishments immediately there is a problem. The lessons learned from Scotland and the evidence from across the continent were the driving force behind the Licensing Act, and I thought that there had been varying degrees of support from all parties in the House for the experiment of trying to ensure that people drink sensibly over a longer period. I would also advocate that they eat more while drinking at the times of day when drinking is most likely to cause abuse, inconvenience and damage to other people. [Interruption.] To judge from some of the heckling, it sounds as though one or two people probably indulged a bit at lunch time.

Binge drinking and social disorder in town centres as a result of drinking were among the major issues raised in a big conversation event concerning community safety that I held last week. Two specific issues were raised, one about planning and the proliferation of licensed premises, and the other about the responsibilities of licensed premises, some of which have totally irresponsible promotions such as, "All you can drink for £10" and "Two drinks for the price of one." Is there anything that could be done about the responsibilities of the drinks industry?

Following the announcement on 15 March, the Prime Minister established a forum in which representatives of the industry are being invited to come and talk through the measures that the industry is prepared to take to act responsibly. In the end, of course, if it does not do so, and if those very large premises, and the consequent antisocial behaviour that spills out on to the street, persist, we shall inevitably have to seek further powers. It is therefore in the best interests of all those involved in the industry, tourism and entertainment to be prepared to make themselves available as partners rather than opponents and ensure that we all gain from sensible drinking and entertainment and from city and town centres that are free and secure to walk in at night.

Following the Home Secretary's trenchant comments on the retail sector, can he explain why, since 1997, an average of only 12 prosecutions a year have been brought against landlords for maintaining disorderly premises?

First, the powers for immediate closure were not available, so the bureaucracy that has been referred to in other contexts this of afternoon often got in the way of the police and the Crown Prosecution Service when they tried to pursue such matters. With the new measures, including those involving licensing and planning, it will be possible for both the police and environmental health departments to intervene. Local authorities that become licensing authorities will be able to respond to their local communities, so it really will be up to local councillors—including Liberal Democrat councillors who so vehemently rejected the Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003, but who are so keen on putting out leaflets to pretend that they did not—to take action on behalf of their local electorate.

What assessment has been made of the impact of partnership working on community safety in police authority areas since 1997. [171324]

Partnership working is essential for ensuring the safety of our communities. Her Majesty's inspectorate of constabulary, jointly with the Local Government Association, Ofsted and the social services inspectorate, have inspected agencies within community safety partnerships, as has the Audit Commission. It was confirmed that substantial progress had been made. More needs to be done, but we are helping to reduce crime.

Does the Minister agree that one of the greatest achievements of the Government is that we have extended community safety beyond mere policing to the wider community? Does she therefore share my dismay that when I attended the Nant-y-Moel neighbourhood watch the other evening, the more than 25 people there were not aware of the great powers that we have passed to them? Does she agree that, to paraphrase Citizen Smith, we have given the power to the people but some of them do not know about it?

It is always distressing to hear of such things. My hon. Friend had a visit not so long ago from my noble Friend Baroness Scotland and I understand that the partnership in his constituency is working better. However, there is no excuse for those involved in such partnerships not making themselves aware of the powers available. We have produced good practice guidelines and a new unit is looking at performance and support to ensure that the highest standards can be reached everywhere. We will consider intervening in areas that are not using the powers that are clearly available to them. This is an important issue and people deserve to have such powers used on their behalf.

The Minister will perhaps agree that the expression "the impact of partnership working on community safety" is pretty meaningless. What is important to my constituents—particularly those in South Wigston, which is the least well off part of my constituency—is that youngsters engaged in binge drinking, to whom the hon. Member for Wirral, South (Mr. Chapman) referred a moment ago, are kept out of shops selling drink and off the streets. For the second time in five years, I shall address a conference in my constituency on antisocial behaviour. What we would like—I hope that the Minister can help us to achieve this—is more police officers patrolling the streets of South Wigston and more community support officers. They provide a uniformed presence and deter youngsters from misbehaving in public places.

I am glad to hear that the hon. and learned Gentleman has made it to his constituency twice in five years. He argues for more police and community support officers, but this Government have delivered in that regard. What are required are resources and an attitude that recognises that tackling crime today is not only a matter for the police. It is also a matter for local authorities and, where drugs are concerned, for primary care trusts and others involved in that issue. We want more police officers, community support officers and others, but we will get them under a Labour Government and certainly not under a Conservative one.

What assessment he has made of the likely budgetary impact of the creation of the National Offender Management Service. [171325]

The National Offender Management Service will become operational on 1 June with an overall budget of £3.5 billion. As with all other areas of public expenditure, the current spending review will determine funding levels for 2005–06 to 2007–08.

As my hon. Friend will be aware, several hon. Members will address a mass lobby of probation officers tomorrow. Those officers are worried about the rush to introduce the National Offender Management Service and the apparent lack of local accountability and genuinely concerned that an element of back-door privatisation seems to be involved. Will my hon. Friend give me a message to pass on to those probation officers that will at least ease some of their fears?

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue, in which he takes a keen interest. Today's probation service has been transformed from the service that existed when we took in office in 1997. There are 5,000 additional staff and a further 2,600 staff will be recruited in the next two years. My message to it is that we will continue to invest in the important work that it does and that we understand the pressure it is under. As the Minister with responsibility for such matters, I want to engage in a constructive dialogue with the probation service and the Prison Service to ensure that we introduce the National Offender Management Service effectively.

If he will make a statement on his plans to introduce identity cards. [171326]

As my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary announced last November, we intend to build the base for a compulsory identity card scheme and on 26 April we published for consultation plans for identity card legislation. The Home Affairs Committee will undertake pre-legislative scrutiny of that Bill, which I welcome. If the hon. Member for Colchester (Bob Russell) can keep his eyes open without discomfort, he will doubtless make a significant contribution to such scrutiny.

Since the abolition of ID cards in the 1950s, Home Office officials have tried to persuade successive Home Secretaries to reintroduce them. Why does the Minister think that this Home Secretary is the first one gullible enough to produce a White Paper on them?

My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary advises me that a previous Home Secretary did produce such a document on that matter. However, the point of the hon. Gentleman's question is not who produced it, but gullibility. The hon. Gentleman should test the temperature of the hour and understand the view of the people of this country who need secure identity and security of their borders. The people are overwhelmingly in favour of developing this policy, but they want it done carefully and delivered appropriately. That is exactly what the Government will do.

:I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

:Does my right hon. Friend believe that taking this country into being a net importer of energy complies with part 1, clause 1, which states:

"The Secretary of State shall have a duty to ensure the integrity and security of electricity and gas supply"?

:My hon. Friend raises an important point, and I shall come in a moment to clause 1 as currently drafted. However, as he knows, because we have discussed it on other occasions, although the United Kingdom has been in the fortunate position for some decades now of being a net energy exporter, most developed countries are not energy exporters, and that in no way damages their capacity for economic growth.

:Further to the previous intervention, when the Secretary of State comes to give that explanation to her hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster, North (Mr. Hughes), will she also explain what she means by saying in part 1 of the Bill that the Government should be required

"to develop effectively sources of energy enabling the UK to avoid undue reliance on imports"?

:I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for that intervention, and I shall return to that point in a moment.

:Before my right hon. Friend leaves the point about the amendments made in those 75 hours, can she assure me that her Department's position now is that it does not intend to make changes to clauses 100 and 101?

:I shall come to that point in a moment. I shall deal with the amendments made in another place as I deal with each of the issues in the Bill.

:The Secretary of State did not mention energy efficiency, which as she knows can play a major part in tackling climate change. Why is energy efficiency not a central part of the Bill, and why was the Government's target sunk last week?

:Both my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and I are acting to ensure that we achieve the substantial improvements in energy efficiency that are necessary, and which we set out in the energy White Paper. My right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister, in his review of building regulations, is considering what more needs to be done to raise standards of energy efficiency in homes and offices.

:While the right hon. Lady is making clear the value of the competitive market, will she also tell us that that competitive market has lifted far more people out of fuel poverty than her Warm Front initiative?

:The significant fall in electricity prices resulting from our reforms of the previously rigged market have indeed helped many low-income households out of fuel poverty, as have the substantial improvements in low-income families' incomes resulting directly from benefit improvements and the tax credits introduced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. All that is in addition to the Warm Front programme.

:My right hon. Friend is to be congratulated on getting the mothballed plant into place, but the only problem—or perhaps I should say the advantage—was that it was never tested, because last winter was a good winter. It cost money for the companies to hold that hitherto mothballed plant in readiness for dramatic drops in temperature. How can we encourage them to do the same next winter? I hope that, again, it will not be cold, but the companies will still have the expense of keeping the kit ready for immediate switch-on.

:My hon. Friend makes an important point. As that mothballed plant, which had been withdrawn in response to low prices, was brought back on stream, the margin was about the same as it had been in previous winters. That was the market operating properly.

:Irrespective of the changes and the discussions that my right hon. Friend is having on clause 1, can she assure the House that she will speak to the Association for the Conservation of Energy, which is obviously very concerned about this issue?

:If ACE has not already been part of those discussions, I am happy to give my hon. Friend that assurance.

:Prices have fallen in real terms for many years, but the renewables obligation, the need to rewire Britain, emissions trading and energy efficiency will all add to costs. Is it not true that the days of relatively cheap power have gone, and that we need to think through the social, economic and political cost of increasing prices?

:As my hon. Friend says, energy prices have fallen very significantly; in most cases, they are at a 20 or even 30-year low. We have to ensure that a market framework is in place—the White Paper made this case in some detail— that gives proper signals about the cost of environmental pollution, which is why we are so committed to the principle of the European emissions trading scheme. We also have to ensure much more investment in, and emphasis on, energy efficiency, which we all accept is by far the cheapest and most effective way of achieving our environmental, fuel poverty and security of supply objectives.

:Will the Secretary of State give way?

:I shall give way one more time on this point and then I will make some progress.

:I am very encouraged to hear the Secretary of State's comments on energy efficiency, but can she explain, therefore, why the energy efficiency targets published last week reduced the original figures, rather than maintaining or increasing them?

:I have already dealt with our determination to ensure that we make progress on energy efficiency, in response to an intervention from the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker).

:I was personally delighted to discover the terms of clause 128 on renewable transport fuel obligation, because the clause reflects exactly the line that I put to the House a year ago when I spoke about the development of a biofuels industry. Does the Secretary of State have any intention of exercising the powers in the clause, according to which, she

"may, by regulations, introduce a renewable transport fuel obligation."?

:In association with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and her colleagues, we are looking into that matter. The right hon. Gentleman made an important point last year, and we certainly believe that there is the possibility of that power being extremely valuable in future. We are looking further into the detail at present.

:There has been intense debate about the performance and innovation unit report and the White Paper. The expectation in many quarters was that the legislation arising from that would make considerable advances in the deployment of renewable energy. I have to say that, per se, this Bill contains little that will contribute to the more rapid deployment of renewable energy. Will the Secretary of State tell us whether the Bill represents the last word on Government policy, or can we look forward to a further Bill that will actually drive renewable energy?

:As I explained earlier, the Bill is not all that we are doing in respect of renewables or other aspects of the White Paper. The renewables obligation itself will build up by 2010 to be worth support of £1 billion a year. We have also extended the obligation to 15.4 per cent. by March 2016, so that investors can have no doubt at all about our commitment to renewable energy in the longer term. Indeed, we now have the first large-scale offshore wind farm at North Hoyle, which is already generating electricity. By the time it is fully operational, it will be capable of powering 50,000 households. Scroby Sands is under construction and consents have been given to a further 12 projects around the coast.

:My right hon. Friend will be aware that many renewables companies, such as Powergen and British Sugar, have said that support for the combined heat and power industry is necessary. They believe that use of the renewables obligation is the right way forward because the state of the industry requires such a step forward. Will my right hon. Friend take into account the views of those major renewables companies that are pressing for the clause to remain?

:We have worked extremely closely with the CHP industry but we do not want to support CHP at the expense of the renewable electricity sector or the renewables obligation itself.

rose—

rose—

:If hon. Members will forgive me, I intend to make a little more progress.

:As the Secretary of State said, nuclear clean-up is a long-term commitment. The Government have insisted on a segregated account for that, rather than putting the money into a separate fund. Why do the Government feel they need a segregated account to allow flexibility when that will undermine confidence in future generations that the money will definitely be there? A segregated account will make it easy for future Chancellors to decide not to allocate money.

:The arrangements that we are making will make it quite clear, and transparently so, that the resources being dedicated to managing the nuclear legacy are used for that purpose.

:In order to meet our international obligations, we have to maintain the basic integrity of our nuclear industry. Will my right hon. Friend ensure that the Bill underlines the need to train and upskill the existing work force and to get younger people into the industry? If it does not, with the best will in the world, it will never fulfil its potential.

:My hon. Friend makes an extremely important point, which we underlined in the White Paper. Since we published the White Paper and made our commitment to working with the nuclear industry to sustain and grow the skills it needs, we have established a sector skills council, Cogent, which is moving forward on that matter. Quite apart from any issue about new nuclear build, the nuclear decommissioning and waste management operation will offer extremely interesting, well paid and highly skilled jobs for a very long time to come. The industry therefore offers wonderful career opportunities for young engineers and technicians.

:Before the Secretary of State moves on from chapter 5, will she tell us something about the thinking behind clause 82 and the extra expenditures allowed by the Government to buy out nuclear power stations that may have been sold on to third parties?

:I am delighted to say that my hon. Friend the Minister for Energy, E-Commerce and Postal Services will deal with that point when he winds up.

:My right hon. Friend has been generous in allowing interventions. As she is talking specifically about my constituency and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Workington (Tony Cunningham), it is appropriate to say that we applaud and appreciate her decision to locate the headquarters of the NDA in west Cumbria and to set up a strategic taskforce to provide some joined-up thinking across Whitehall on the future of west Cumbria. However, there is a sting in the tail. To our great pleasure and the satisfaction of local authorities and the work force in the industry, the Secretary of State took that initiative in November last year, but the taskforce has not yet met. Can she tell us why?

:I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for the work that he did in bringing together some of the key partners in Cumbria to visit me, so that we could discuss exactly what was needed. My understanding is that the Northwest Development Agency is already in discussions with the local councils in Cumbria and that we are awaiting proposals from them. If it is not making satisfactory progress, I will make inquiries and ensure that progress is made because, like my right hon. Friend, I understand its importance to his constituents and the community.

:This is a Bill of modest ambitions in the context of even the White Paper, especially when measured against the burgeoning resources of the Department responsible for drafting it and, even more importantly, against the context of our country's medium to long-term security of energy supplies—an issue from which the Secretary of State and her Department continue to shy away.

"provides … solutions to a number of legislative problems related to parts of our energy strategy." —[Official Report, House of Lords, 11 December 2003; Vol. 655, c. 834.]

"We are very close to the margins, when this is something we should really be very risk averse about…The costs to everybody of any failure are so enormous. If there's a catastrophic failure in the shoe industry, nobody suffers very much. If electricity goes wrong, everybody is in big trouble."

"Plainly, our policies on energy efficiency, emissions trading, renewable sources, transport and others will need to deliver more in future."

:Does my hon. Friend think, however, that there is a need for greater clarity of leadership on biofuels, given that the Treasury currently sets the fiscal regime, that the Department for Transport is dealing with the consultation paper on the introduction of biofuels in transport, that the Department of Trade and Industry deals with matters connected with biofuels and energy and that the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs deals with the agriculture side of the issue?