My Lords, I start by saying how pleased I am to bring this Bill to the Floor of the House for the first time. The reforms contained in it support business in driving economic growth and they will help the Government deliver their manifesto commitment to make the UK the best place in Europe to innovate, patent new ideas and set up and expand a business. The Bill’s provisions will make the intellectual property system more easily navigable for rights holders and third parties alike. It will help ensure that rights holders can enforce their IP rights fairly, while preventing the misuse of threats to sue for infringement as a way to distort competition.
As noble Lords will be aware, the detailed recommendations for reform in this area were made by the Law Commission, and I thank it warmly for its thorough and detailed approach to this project, including extensive stakeholder consultation, which has brought the Bill to this House in such good shape.
The Bill has a narrow scope and follows the special Bill procedure available for uncontroversial Law Commission reforms. This procedure included a number of very informative evidence sessions during Committee. I take this opportunity to thank the chair of the Special Public Bill Committee, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Saville of Newdigate, who is unable to be in his seat today, and colleagues on the committee, several of whom are here this evening, for their time and efforts in considering the Bill thus far. Our discussions have been productive and helpful.
The first group of amendments addresses concerns raised by both stakeholders and members of the committee. I believe that they improve the clarity of the provisions, which is a key aim of the Bill as a whole. The first of the amendments would delete “solely” from new Section 70B(1)(a), and the equivalent sections for the other rights. The Law Society has long pushed for this amendment. Both CIPA and the IP Federation also agreed, at the evidence stage, that the term should be removed. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, for raising this point during Committee and for emphasising its importance to stakeholders. The intent of the person sending a communication is not relevant in determining whether that communication is “permitted”. This has always been our position and the amendment makes it even clearer.
The second family of amendments in this group also relates to the permitted communications provisions. A common complaint is that, under the existing threats law, there is no guidance on what type of communication is allowed and what is not. It is therefore easy for rights holders inadvertently to fall foul of the threats provisions.
The subsections in issue provide guidance on what types of information are necessary for a permitted communication by providing a list of examples. However, it has become apparent that these subsections are not as clear as they should be. The amendments make it clear that the examples will always be considered necessary for a permitted purpose. A rights holder who wishes to make a permitted communication may confidently provide the types of information listed. The list is also clearly non-exclusive, so appropriate flexibility is provided.
The next amendment addresses an issue raised by the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, in Committee. The issue relates to what he termed a “piece of illogic” in new Section 70C(4) and equivalents regarding the reference to “T”, curiously used to refer to the person who made the threat. To solve this problem, we have simply opted to remove the reference altogether and substitute it with a reference to the person, which, given its context, clearly means the person who made the threat.
Finally, I come to the fourth set of amendments in this group. These seek to amend new Section 70E and equivalents to clarify the position in relation to pending rights, particularly with reference to the justification defence available to the rights holder. As the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, highlighted in Committee, expert stakeholders have concerns with the current drafting on this point. This family of amendments—a term that the noble Baroness kindly invented in Committee—addresses these concerns by stating explicitly that the question of whether there has been an infringement will be determined on the basis of the IP right once it has been registered or granted. I hope that this deals neatly with the comments from the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, on this issue.
Clause 1: Patents
1: Clause 1, page 2, line 30, leave out “solely”
My Lords, perhaps I may take this opportunity to say on behalf of my noble and learned friend Lord Saville of Newdigate, who chaired the Special Public Bill Committee, how much he regrets that he is not able to be present at this stage of the Bill. He has authorised me to say that he, having read all the amendments, fully supports them. The fact that they have been brought before the House in this way indicates the hard work that the committee did, and the Bill will no doubt be greatly improved by their being moved.
My Lords, we had some extraordinary things on this committee: a Saville committee that ran to time and a Minister who listened, took her conclusions back to her department and the Law Commission, and achieved a most satisfactory series of amendments. That is an achievement that ranks with the dervishes breaking a British square. That the Law Commission should have given in to suggestions from the House of Lords really shows what a fine Minister we have and what a fine job she has done on this Bill. All of us who sat through the committee—who thought we might be doing it all to achieve nothing—are enormously grateful to her.
My Lords, I also thank the Minister and must declare my interests as a retired chartered and European patent attorney, former fellow of the Chartered Institute of Patent Attorneys and former representative before the European Patent Office and European Union Intellectual Property Office; and that my husband has residual income from our former practice, and that we are proprietors of a registered trademark. That all means that I have had to send and receive the sort of correspondence that the Bill is all about.
The Minister has proposed amendments in this group and elsewhere that touch on most of the points on which I tabled amendments and spoke in Committee. The only points not touched on at all concern the proposed new section defining actionable threats, and I have not tabled similar amendments again, as these were perhaps overly substantive for this stage of a Law Commission Bill. That is a pity but, nevertheless, I have had the opportunity to elaborate on those points in Committee for the public record, and people can take note of what will remain problems.
With regard to Amendments 1, 2 and 4 for patents and the corresponding changes to the clauses for trademarks and designs, I agree that the deletion of “solely”, and clarifying the examples, make the safe harbour that is intended for permitted communications clearer and the accidental triggering of threats provisions less likely. I need say no more on that. I am grateful for the other drafting amendments on numbering and with reference to pending rights, which I raised.
My Lords, I am sure we will find when we examine the fine print that there is probably a prohibition in the Companion on making the sorts of speeches we have been hearing. That makes me even more determined to make them. It is right that we should record that the special procedures we went through for the Bill, although recognisably a labour—no pun intended—have generated a very successful outcome. I join others in congratulating our chair, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Saville of Newdigate, who got us through some interesting and tricky evidence sessions with great expediency and, as was said, on time.
I also congratulate the Minister, whom I recall making her first appearance at the Dispatch Box on an intellectual property Bill—“flustered” is perhaps too strong a word, but it certainly was not her natural habitat. But the feathers have grown and the plumage has become much more sleek and groomed, and now we have somebody who is fully equipped to deal with all matters of intellectual property. As has been said, those of us who have been involved with intellectual property Bills before have had not much success in getting changes, but she has come back with a raft of improvements to the Bill. Against the Law Commission, as has been said, you can say no finer than that.
It was a pleasure having an expert member on the committee, the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted. It is always a bit of a worry when you see somebody on a committee who knows a lot about the subject, because you think they may dominate it. She was indeed very powerful in her contributions, but they were to a point and finely judged. We all learned and benefited from that.
We have done extremely well, and the Minister has achieved a great deal and kept us informed. We had a letter only this week explaining what the proposals were and how they fitted into her thinking, and I am happy to support them.
My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, my noble friend Lord Lucas, the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, and the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, for their kind and constructive comments. As the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, we all learned a lot. These provisions are indeed an improvement.
Amendment 1 agreed.
2: Clause 1, page 2, line 33, after “subsection (5)” insert “(a) to (c) for some examples of necessary information”
Amendment 2 agreed.
3: Clause 1, page 2, line 45, leave out “it necessary” and insert “that it is”
My Lords, this group of amendments seeks to address concerns raised in Committee about the practical application of the new threats provisions. These changes amend the discretion afforded to judges in applying the new permitted communication provisions and improve the ability to access the defences available. Both these changes particularly help to address concerns expressed about the challenges of working in an online trading environment.
I turn first to Amendment 3 and its family. The provisions as drafted allow that the courts may treat another, additional purpose as a permitted purpose if that is necessary in the interests of justice. I have now had the opportunity to consider the arguments put forward by the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, and to reflect further on the evidence given by Mr Justice Birss, Professor Sir Robin Jacob and others to the Special Public Bill Committee regarding the extent of the judges’ discretion in this area. By removing the word “necessary”, these amendments provide additional flexibility to the courts when considering whether a particular communication was made for a permitted purpose. The provisions still give clarity and certainty for those using the system, which is a key requirement for all stakeholders.
The wider discretion afforded to the courts under this amendment allows them to add to the list of permitted communications when appropriate. This would include treating the use of an online form as permitted, if that is suitable in the particular circumstances. This amendment, therefore, helps to address concerns raised about the use of particular online forms.
The next family of amendments relates to the defence available to rights holders, whereby they are allowed to send a threat to a trader, or other secondary actor, who is not the source of the alleged infringement, if a search for the primary actor has been unsuccessful. The amendments deal with two issues discussed in Committee. There were concerns that, first, the bar was set too high to access the defence, and, secondly, this was particularly problematic for rights holders dealing with potential infringements in an online trading environment. Under the current patents law, the test is that the rights holder must have used “best endeavours” to find the source but failed. During the Law Commission’s work, the “best endeavours” requirement was the subject of much criticism. As a result, the phrase “all reasonable steps” was used in the Bill. However, in evidence taken by the Special Public Bill Committee, this phrasing was also described as being too onerous.
As the BBC explained in its evidence, in the face of high-volume, low-value online infringements, the requirement to use “all reasonable steps” would be disproportionate and burdensome. It was therefore suggested that the word “all” should be left out. Compelling arguments were also put forward by the committee’s distinguished chairman, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Saville, the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles. On reflection, I agree that “all reasonable steps” does place the bar too high. The amendment would instead require the rights holder to simply take “reasonable steps” to find the source of the infringement. What is reasonable will depend on the circumstances. The assessment can take account of what it is reasonable for the rights holder to do in an online environment, and what is reasonable in the economic circumstances of the case.
There is a balance here. We need to ensure that we restrict potentially damaging unjustified threats but also that rights holders can take action to tackle infringement online when they need to. I beg to move.
My Lords, after being on the committee entrusted by the House with scrutiny of this Bill, I am only too fully aware of what a complex area of law intellectual property is—it is crucial that we get it right. We must ensure that we create a climate as positive as any in the world for businesses to innovate and grow, especially after we leave the European Union.
I thank the Minister for her clear thinking and her ability to make me understand exactly what was going on. I thought when I started that I would never get to the end of it all. However, it was quite amazing: with her experience as a fine civil servant who then transferred over to work in the wild business world, she came back with all kinds of straightforward thinking that I could understand and comply with.
I am confident that the Bill will make a valuable contribution to achieving this goal. It will make it easier for businesses to make legitimate threats to protect their intellectual property and for those businesses subject to unjustified threats to protect themselves. I am particularly glad that the Bill will harmonise the law across different types of intellectual property and make it simpler and cheaper for businesses, especially small businesses, which can often be the most intimidated by threats, to seek legal advice and negotiate before there is a need to involve the courts. The greater clarity created by the new category of permitted communications is most welcome in this regard. The Bill is therefore a significant improvement on the current law and has the potential to make a real difference for businesses in practice.
As a former small business owner who has been subject to threats to sue for intellectual property infringement, a consumer protection representative and a Minister for Intellectual Property, I also understand, however, quite how impenetrable intellectual property law can be for businesses. This is especially the case for small and medium-sized enterprises, which often struggle to understand complex legal points and are least able to afford expert legal advice when they encounter difficulties.
When I was running my small business, I was once contacted by a well-known company in the same industry alleging that I had fringed its intellectual property rights. It turned out that it did not have a leg to stand on from a legal point of view. Nevertheless, the whole episode still caused me and my business a great deal of disruption. While I recognise that I would have been a primary actor for the purposes of this Bill, and therefore not protected by the threats provision, I empathise wholeheartedly with those businesses for which these are crucial protections but for which intellectual property law is incredibly hard to understand.
For this reason, getting the legislation right is only half of the battle. Just as important—perhaps even more so—is how we seek to ensure that businesses understand what is in the Bill and how it helps them in practical terms. If we do not do this properly, we might as well not pass the Bill at all.
While I know from my time as a Minister that the Intellectual Property Office works hard to help businesses understand intellectual property, it needs to ensure that it keeps improving its efforts in this area. It would be unacceptable and a tragedy if even one start-up or SME capitulated to an unjustified threat to sue for intellectual property infringement out of a lack of awareness of the provisions of the Bill once enacted.
I was grateful to the Minister for her comments in Committee on how the Government intend to proceed to make sure that the provisions of the Bill are communicated to business, especially SMEs, so that it has the positive impact in practice that it ought to. However, this is one of the things about which we cannot ever have too much information or too many reassurances. I therefore continue to press the Minister to assist the House and businesses with further reassurances, wherever she can, on this matter.
My Lords, I am sure the noble and learned Lord, Lord Saville of Newdigate, would wish me to thank the Minister for moving these amendments.
Two simple words are on the paper in front of us—“necessary” and “or”—but they are constraining words and to remove them from the Bill is a significant step to take. I am particularly interested in the extent to which the noble Baroness is prepared to increase the width of the discretion given to the judges. I can think of many cases where Acts of Parliament have sought to restrict the discretion of the judges because they were not trusted. However, in the area of intellectual property, the cases that come before the courts are in the hands of expert judges and I am sure that taking out the word “necessary” and giving them greater discretion is entirely justified and greatly improves the nature of the legislation under consideration.
I join the noble and learned Lord, Lord Saville, in thanking the Minister for taking this step.
My Lords, I again thank the Minister for these amendments. I welcome that “necessary” has been removed from the judge’s discretion provision by way of Amendment 3 and its family of amendments. It was a feature of our discussions with witnesses and in Committee that the court’s ability to exercise discretion was important and that the flavour should be that the judge can do what is reasonable in all the circumstances. This is reflected in the simple words “in the interests of justice” without what might have been an unusually high or inflexible hurdle of “necessary”.
On Amendment 6 and its corresponding family, we had significant discussion during evidence sessions relating to the status of take-down notices that are sent to digital platforms and then by the platforms on to vendors. Case law had left a bit of a limbo as to whether these are threats and, if they are, whether the defence that “all reasonable steps” have been taken to find the primary infringer is too high a hurdle, especially in the digital environment, where vendors may be in remote places and it is effectively impossible to trace who may truly be the primary infringer and the customer is, in effect, the importer. Did every lead have to be pursued or, if not, how many?
There is some assistance through the Minister’s amendment that deletes “all”. This makes the defence, if it is needed, a little easier, and the word “reasonable” still retains aspects of proportionality, so the test has not been made too light in other circumstances and can adapt.
However, the amendment does not solve the lacuna of whether a take-down notice is or is not a threat, with two interim judgments—Quads 4 Kids and then Cassie Creations—indicating it was an arguable point but not deciding. This is left, as I said, in limbo.
This is a substantive point—again, too substantive for this stage of a Law Commission Bill—and there is an opportunity to pursue issues relating to digital platforms in the Digital Economy Bill. On these Benches, we are interested in doing that for the status of take-down notices, among other things. I know the Minister can give no promises now but at least it, and how it originated, will be no surprise when the issue returns.
My Lords, I want briefly to follow the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope—my noble and learned kinsman—in expressing my thanks for the way in which these points have been taken, but perhaps I may add a little a gloss to what he said. The way he expressed it was that this is going to aid the generic judge in doing their job more efficiently than would otherwise be the case. However, it is worth recalling that the discussion we had in Committee on this—it was prompted by the evidence we received—turned on the fact that this is quite a key point in trying to perceive within the Bill the evolutionary steps that the Law Commission said existed, as this Bill provides a route forward from where we were in previous times to where we might be in the future in the possibility of establishing a more general tort in relation to business ethics and business behaviour, of which it is arguable that unjustified threats are a very unjustifiable part of the business environment. I know that the Minister shares my thinking on this and I agree with her that this is not the Bill in which to take these issues forward, but I think we both hope that there will be an opportunity to come back to this issue in some future legislation.
The point is an important one. If we see this piece of legislation as a step on a journey towards an alignment that is closer than is currently the case with the Paris convention 1883, we will be in a more satisfactory place to understand and perhaps plan forwards on how these things might happen. Whether that should be in the Digital Economy Bill, which is soon to arrive with us, we do not know, because it is not being dealt with in the Minister’s department any more. However, I am sure that she will take a close interest in it, particularly if the words “intellectual property” are flashed around. I am sure that she will be like a moth to the flame coming back to support us. In the interim, we support these amendments.
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, and to the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, for the welcome they have given to the extension of sensible judicial discretion through these amendments. I also warmly thank my noble friend Lady Wilcox for her very kind words and for her strong support for the Bill, particularly from the perspective of someone who has experienced threats as a small business person. She rightly highlighted the importance of providing appropriate guidance and she may be aware that we have already published some guidance to business. The IPO has got up early in terms of what the reforms could mean in practice. I have copies of the guidance if any noble Lord would like one.
In our debate in Committee I happily committed to communicating to businesses the changes and benefits being brought by the introduction of this Bill. They will form an important part of the IPO’s work and its outreach programme. I know that my noble friend is keen to learn what this would mean in reality, so I can say that the IPO will go the extra mile for SMEs. It will update its popular online tools, publish guidance, add information on the new threats provisions to the range of IP educational materials as appropriate and include presentations about these changes at its outreach events, many of which are of course aimed at SMEs. It will also update businesses via social media channels and signpost users to the relevant guidance. It is crucial that the material produced is clear and accessible, and the IPO will road-test the guidance in draft with small business representatives to ensure that it is understandable. These changes will be communicated direct to SMEs by the IPO as well as by others who provide advice and support to small businesses, which is equally important. The IPO will work with representative bodies to ensure that their members are aware of the reforms. Emails will be sent to those stakeholders who have signed up to receive updates, which will ensure that sources of IP advice such as the patent library network, growth hubs and professional IP advisers are best able to help our SMEs.
The noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, repeated some of the concerns that we discussed at length in Committee. I continue to believe that to include online notifications automatically as a permitted purpose would completely undermine the protection from threats which is at the heart of these provisions. It cannot be right that retailers and others lose all protection from threats simply because those threats are made via a particular medium, in this case online. As I have said, submitting an online form normally results in a listing being taken down, so making online forms permitted would not encourage parties in dispute to talk first since the rights holder could, justifiably or not, prevent at a stroke any further trade in an item. The amendments proposed address the issues in the most appropriate way. The wider discretion that we have given to the courts, which I started with, is useful because it allows the law to evolve as, for example, technology moves on so that over time it can be applied in a clear, fair and appropriate way. In addition we have made defences more readily available to rights holders who need to approach a secondary actor.
The noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, talked about online and reference was made to the Digital Economy Bill, which all being well will come before this House on 13 December. We have two amendments today to improve the online situation and I feel that we have addressed the concerns raised in Committee and by the BBC. The amended clauses should therefore be allowed to run. Further, it is only fair to say that we do not have any plans to revisit the issue in the Digital Economy Bill when it comes to this House.
We have made some significant changes to the Bill in response to the concerns that were well expressed in Committee and I hope that noble Lords will feel able to support the amendments before them.
Amendment 3 agreed.
Amendments 4 to 8
4: Clause 1, page 3, leave out lines 6 and 7 and insert “If any of the following information is included in a communication made for a permitted purpose, it is information that is “necessary for that purpose” (see subsection (1)(b)(i))—”
5: Clause 1, page 3, line 29, leave out “(T)”
6: Clause 1, page 3, line 30, leave out “all”
7: Clause 1, page 3, line 30, leave out “T” and insert “the person”
8: Clause 1, page 3, line 34, leave out “T” and insert “the person”
Amendments 4 to 8 agreed.
9: Clause 1, page 4, line 6, after “the” insert “specific”
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted, for joining me in tabling this amendment and its parallel amendments in later parts of the Bill. I am sure that the Minister, when she comes to respond, will point out that, as phrased, the amendment does not achieve what I hope to draw out from her in the discussion. In that sense it is a probing amendment, which is probably inappropriate, but nevertheless it was the only way we could think of to get this thing up at this stage.
As the Minister said in Committee, the tactic of suing a professional adviser for making a threat has been used to disrupt negotiations and hamper legitimate client-adviser relationships. A professional adviser should not have to become personally involved in a threats action when they act only on behalf of their client. I accept that the Bill as drafted restricts the protection available to professional advisers to those who are regulated by a statutory regulatory body or entitled to legal professional privilege, but we already have in the Bill provisions under which the professional adviser may rely on the safe harbour provisions to avoid personal liability. Maybe there are other ways that other safeguards could be built into the Bill, such as when it is clear that the threat is speculative and when the principal and the adviser are clearly adopting a game of bluff with the alleged infringer, and so should, by rights, be at risk. I would certainly be happy to engage in discussions with the IPO and the Minister on this point if there was willingness to take it further.
I accept that exempting professional advisers from the threats provision has long been called for and that it would help stop game playing. However, to my mind this is a step too far. The Bill delivers an exemption that provides for the first time in English law that an agent would not be liable for following the specific instructions of his or her principal. I beg to move.
My Lords, I tabled the amendment with the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson. I have a few additional comments that bear some relationship to what the effect of the word “specific” would be in this position.
The fact that advisers could themselves be liable has been, at least in some circumstances, a gatekeeper to check on the appropriateness of communications concerning infringement of intellectual property rights. It has also created other problems, hence the exemption that has been put forward in the Bill. We took evidence to establish that at least in the UK there are disciplinary provisions for wayward professionals, which assists in that gatekeeping, but here we are exempting advisers worldwide. I remain a little concerned as to whether the definition of “exempted adviser” is too widely drawn, but it seemed that there was another way to ensure some element of the gatekeeping is there to make sure the instructions to the adviser are specific.
An adviser overstepping the mark or not warning their client of the consequences of an unjustified threat could well be on the receiving end of a negligence action, but it is a bit grey as to what that instruction might need to be. Could it be a blanket instruction to “go get ‘em”, or to be trigger-happy without discussion about a whole portfolio of rights? The amendment aims to make it clear that specific, conscious instructions are needed, and that due care and attention to that takes place whoever and wherever the adviser may be. It also carries with it the flavour—this needs to be said and recorded—that the exempting of advisers is a particular exemption, not a “get out of jail free” card. Care still has to be taken over the composition and sending of letters or notices that allege infringement.
My Lords, I am fairly new to this argument as unfortunately I was not able to be present as a member of the committee. Judges faced with the nature of this clause, in looking at the word “instructions”, would give the word a purposive meaning and would tend to look for a specific instruction as a necessary condition even if the words were not expressed in the Bill. For the avoidance of doubt, I respectfully suggest that the amendment moved by my noble kinsman has great force behind it. One would want to put the matter beyond doubt. For what it is worth, I support the amendment.
My Lords, I understand that this is an area of concern. I welcome the amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles. I very much appreciate the noble Lord’s constructive approach to the Bill and his commitment to careful scrutiny. I think he said the amendment was probing in nature. I will start by setting out why I remain convinced that the exemption for professional advisers is so necessary, before talking about the specific amendment.
The Law Commission’s consultation demonstrated that the tactic of suing a professional adviser for making a threat has been used to hamper the legitimate client-adviser relationship. This causes problems not only for the adviser but for the client, who may as a result need to find a new adviser. I believe we heard convincingly during the evidence stages that this is a significant and common issue. It leaves rights holders in the position of having to pay indemnities before a legal adviser will write an entirely justified letter on their behalf. SMEs are more likely to be asked for such indemnities and are most affected by them.
I am aware that there were concerns regarding such an exemption, which might give rise to an increase in the use of unscrupulous threats. However, I do not agree for the following reasons. Where the professional adviser is exempt, the instructing client will remain liable. This ensures that recourse is available to those damaged by threats. A legal adviser who advises their client badly, leaving them liable for threats, risks a negligence action. The exemption does not prevent this. The exemption has been carefully and appropriately limited in its availability. The amendment would restrict the protection available for professional advisers to just those who are acting on “specific” instructions from another person.
In an increasingly global market—that was mentioned —we need to capture the many different types of foreign and domestic IP legal practitioner who may risk facing a threats action under UK law. As discussed in Committee, this should clearly include those in private practice as well as “in-house” advisers. For that reason, I do not agree that the exemption principle should apply only to the very limited category of circumstances envisaged by the amendment.
In practice, instructions come in all shapes and forms, written and oral. It is therefore unclear what would be required in order to demonstrate that an adviser was acting on a “specific” instruction. Such lack of clarity about “specific” instructions would be particularly problematic for in-house legal advisers, who are often acting on a general mandate to protect their company’s IP rights. The Law Commission agrees that the amendment risks leaving in-house advisers without protection. I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson: I think that that is the response that he was expecting in relation to the amendment.
Stakeholders such as the BBC are keen that the exemption properly applies to in-house advisers for just these reasons, but the noble Lord will recall that we have agreed to update the Explanatory Notes to the Bill to reflect the fact that such advisers are covered so as to further reassure stakeholders.
The solution provided by the Bill seems much clearer and more certain than trying to capture the concept of bluffing and so on. I can understand why some concerns have been expressed, but, in the light of the background I have set out as to why we have drafted the provision in the way that we have and the need for clarity, I hope that the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw the amendment.
I thank those noble Lords who contributed to this short debate. It is right that we recognise that there are particularities in relation to in-house lawyers and I take the point made by the Minister that the exemption would be particularly useful for them. It does not get round the fact that this could easily be the thin end of the wedge. While that should not detract from the specifics of what we are discussing today, it would be odd if a very small part of a very small part of the law—while I in no sense diminish the contribution made by this Bill to the greater good—was to be adapted to allow this exemption, which then spread.
It may be clearer if I make one final point. My understanding is that the underlying law on agent liability is left undisturbed, so no precedent is being set here for other areas of law which concern agent-client relationships. I recall that being a concern expressed by the noble Lord, so perhaps my making that clear to the House will help him in agreeing to withdraw the amendment.
Yes. The Minister anticipated exactly what I was going to say. We were all looking for some words of reassurance so that those who had to interpret the provisions later would be better informed. We have not had the chance to see the Explanatory Memorandum in that regard. Perhaps we could receive that in correspondence before the final stages of the Bill, so that I might be more satisfied. On that basis, I am happy to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment 9 withdrawn.
Amendments 10 to 12
10: Clause 1, page 4, line 16, leave out “to 70C” and insert “and 70B”
11: Clause 1, page 4, line 16, after “include” insert “references to”
12: Clause 1, page 4, line 17, at end insert—
“(2) Where the threat of infringement proceedings is made after an application has been published (but before grant) the reference in section 70C(3) to “the patent” is to be treated as a reference to the patent as granted in pursuance of that application.”
Amendments 10 to 12 agreed.
Clause 2: Trade marks
Amendments 13 to 20
13: Clause 2, page 6, line 11, leave out “solely”
14: Clause 2, page 6, line 14, after “subsection (5)” insert “(a) to (c) for some examples of necessary information”
15: Clause 2, page 6, line 28, leave out “it necessary” and insert “that it is”
16: Clause 2, page 6, leave out lines 35 and 36 and insert “If any of the following information is included in a communication made for a permitted purpose, it is information that is “necessary for that purpose” (see subsection (1)(b)(i))—”
17: Clause 2, page 7, line 11, leave out “(T)”
18: Clause 2, page 7, line 12, leave out “all”
19: Clause 2, page 7, line 12, leave out “T” and insert “the person”
20: Clause 2, page 7, line 16, leave out “T” and insert “the person”
Amendments 13 to 20 agreed.
Amendment 21 not moved.
Amendments 22 and 23
22: Clause 2, page 7, line 44, leave out “to 21C” and insert “and 21B”
23: Clause 2, page 7, line 46, at end insert—
“(2) Where the threat of infringement proceedings is made after an application for registration has been published (but before registration) the reference in section 21C(2) to “the registered trade mark” is to be treated as a reference to the trade mark registered in pursuance of that application.”
Amendments 22 and 23 agreed.
Clause 3: European Union trade marks
Amendments 24 to 27
24: Clause 3, page 8, line 20, leave out “to 21C” and insert “and 21B”
25: Clause 3, page 8, line 24, at end insert—
“(1B) In the application of section 21C in relation to a European Union trade mark in a case where the threat of infringement proceedings is made after an application has been published (but before registration) the reference in section 21C(2) to “the registered trade mark” is to be treated as a reference to the European Union trade mark registered in pursuance of that application.”
26: Clause 3, page 8, line 26, leave out “to 21C” and insert “and 21B”
27: Clause 3, page 8, line 31, at end insert—
“(3) In the application of section 21C in relation to an international trade mark (EC) in a case where the threat of infringement proceedings is made after particulars have been published (but before registration) the reference in section 21C(2) to “the registered trade mark” is to be treated as a reference to the international trade mark (EC) registered in pursuance of those particulars.”
Amendments 24 to 27 agreed.
Clause 4: Registered designs
Amendments 28 to 35
28: Clause 4, page 10, line 2, leave out “solely”
29: Clause 4, page 10, line 5, after “subsection (5)” insert “(a) to (c) for some examples of necessary information”
30: Clause 4, page 10, line 19, leave out “it necessary” and insert “that it is”
31: Clause 4, page 10, leave out lines 28 and 29 and insert “If any of the following information is included in a communication made for a permitted purpose, it is information that is “necessary for that purpose” (see subsection (1)(b)(i))—”
32: Clause 4, page 11, line 4, leave out “(T)”
33: Clause 4, page 11, line 5, leave out “all”
34: Clause 4, page 11, line 5, leave out “T” and insert “the person”
35: Clause 4, page 11, line 9, leave out “T” and insert “the person”
Amendments 28 to 35 agreed.
Amendment 36 not moved.
Amendments 37 and 38
37: Clause 4, page 11, line 37, leave out “to 26C” and insert “and 26B”
38: Clause 4, page 11, line 39, at end insert—
“(2) Where the threat of infringement proceedings is made after an application for registration has been made (but before registration) the reference in section 26C(2) to “the registered design” is to be treated as a reference to the design registered in pursuance of that application.”
Amendments 37 and 38 agreed.
Clause 5: Design right
Amendments 39 to 46
39: Clause 5, page 13, line 13, leave out “solely”
40: Clause 5, page 13, line 16, after “subsection (5)” insert “(a) to (c) for some examples of necessary information”
41: Clause 5, page 13, line 29, leave out “it necessary” and insert “that it is”
42: Clause 5, page 13, leave out lines 37 and 38 and insert “If any of the following information is included in a communication made for a permitted purpose, it is information that is “necessary for that purpose” (see subsection (1)(b)(i))—”
43: Clause 5, page 14, line 11, leave out “(T)”
44: Clause 5, page 14, line 12, leave out “all”
45: Clause 5, page 14, line 12, leave out “T” and insert “the person”
46: Clause 5, page 14, line 16, leave out “T” and insert “the person”
Amendments 39 to 46 agreed.
Amendment 47 not moved.
Clause 6: Community design
Amendments 48 to 55
48: Clause 6, page 16, line 15, leave out “solely”
49: Clause 6, page 16, line 18, after “paragraph (5)” insert “(a) to (c) for some examples of necessary information”
50: Clause 6, page 16, line 31, leave out “it necessary” and insert “that it is”
51: Clause 6, page 16, leave out lines 42 and 43 and insert “If any of the following information is included in a communication made for a permitted purpose, it is information that is “necessary for that purpose” (see paragraph (1)(b)(i))—”
52: Clause 6, page 17, line 21, leave out “(T)”
53: Clause 6, page 17, line 22, leave out “all”
54: Clause 6, page 17, line 22, leave out “T” and insert “the person”
55: Clause 6, page 17, line 26, leave out “T” and insert “the person”
Amendments 48 to 55 agreed.
Amendment 56 not moved.
Amendments 57 and 58
57: Clause 6, page 18, line 8, leave out “to 2C” and insert “and 2B”
58: Clause 6, page 18, line 12, at end insert—
“(2) Where the threat of infringement proceedings is made after an application for registration has been filed (but before registration) the reference in regulation 2C(2) to “the Community design” is to be treated as a reference to the design registered in pursuance of that application.”
Amendments 57 and 58 agreed.
House adjourned at 8.50 pm.